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Thread: Example of Fe and Ni?

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    Default Example of Fe and Ni?

    Read an AMA on reddit of a one Sean "Day9" Plott, a relatively famous figure in the competitive cyber gaming community known for winning world cyber games as a Starcraft: Broodwar player in 2005, and now as an Esport Entrepenuer. Someone asked him about his mindset during the day and how he remains positive (He is frighteningly positive and energetic in general) and he replied with this post:

    "If you surf through some of my old posts on forums, you'll see an angry little kid. I'm super embarrassed sometimes when I see the sorts of things I used to do. Gaaaaagh.
    But, I've always wanted to be nice. I like to be nice and to help out. But how does one "work" on being nice? Here's my routine:
    When I wake up in the morning, I think about all the people I'm going to talk to and interact with that day. I think of how a conversation might go so I have an expectation, and I try to think of how I WANT to come across in that interaction. I think of all the things that people could be frustrated at me about, how they might say it to me, and how I can make that experience NICE for the other person. I literally rehearse in my head various situations until it sounds right.
    Suppose I'm going into a performance review with a boss later that day and I think he might be angry at my recent work. I'll try to rehearse exactly what I want to say to make the experience nice for HIM. How would I posture my body language? What words would I use? How would I repair this situation? After a while of talking to myself, some possible ideas don't "feel right" and others feel really good. The feeling I look for is one of calm and relief. Ever gotten into an argument with someone in your head? Feel your face getting hot and your heartrate increasing? That's bad. Don't say those in real life. I always feel a little mental "click" when I've thought of the right thing to say. It feels warm and I feel like it'll be nice for the other person. At the end of a day, I'll reflect on how those interactions went. In particular, I'll reflect first on the ones that felt off - the ones where I felt a bit hot in the face. How could I have said something differently? How could I have communicated more calmly to this person? How could I have helped this person feel more involved? I just continue to reflect until I feel that "click." Most importantly, I take time every few days to think about all the rather mundane, dry, utterly forgetful moments and conversations throughout the day. That I think is the real trick. It's so easy to "feel fine" during a conversation and to be unaware if it's negatively affecting anyone. That's where I've found little habits I do that may be offputting, like looking away from someone as they tell a joke, laughing into the distance. Fuck that, if I'm gonna laugh, I now try to look RIGHT at the person so they FEEL my enjoyment. After years of reflecting, adjusting, rehearsing, you just become more cheerful and happy. It took a hell of a lot of work and reflection, and I'm sure I grate on people and get snippy, but it's something I think a lot about. I worry about someone having a struggle in a day, and I say the one thing that pushes it into a "bad day." Everyone has immense struggles in the own life and I don't want to add to it. I want it to be better!"


    My initial impression is that he is a Fe and Ni user based on this answer. The way he describes predicting his body language in advance and how it would impact others as well as his reflections of it. I am currently under the belief that he is an EIE, but I have a friend who says he is IEE so I am curious what the minds here think about this post and whether it exemplifies Fe-Ni or Ni-Fe or anything else. Please share.

    Video interview of Day9 if interested:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0VnC_h6Y4w

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    I'd cast my vote for IEI, since I do similar things, and I think its a function of creative judgement, not creative Ni

    In other words, leading Ni runs the simulations and Fe or Te decides "how it went." Of course, maybe it works both ways--could be (creative Ni/leading Xe), I just know from my experience I do this a lot as ILI but use Te to evaluate the outcomes and to create/modify "arguments"--which is essentially what he's doing the Fe version of ("appeals" perhaps?).

    edit: I feel like leading Te/Fe would be more preoccupied with actively looking for opportunities than refining/rehearsing arguments in their head. Although that isn't to say they couldn't do it. Just that it wouldn't be the same kind of compulsive ritual. I find "running" the simulation kind of enjoyable and spend a lot of time doing it, even on relatively small stuff, whereas I could see that being a kind of Te waste of time in all but the most important scenarios
    Last edited by Bertrand; 02-07-2017 at 01:58 AM.

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    ^_^
    Last edited by Nehtaro; 02-12-2017 at 08:16 PM.

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    Definitely Fe but I would say Fe with Si. EIEs don't necessarily care about making people feel good, or the mundane aspects of interaction.

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    ...I love this forum. "Random quality I have personally ascribed to one type over another," or "this kinda reminds me of blah..." or "I like them so they must be my dual" or "I mistyped myself and my fundamental understanding of socionics is flawed but that is too much effort to correct." No offense @thehotelambush because only the first applies to this post, but holy cow... I'm not even annoyed yall disagree but you disagree based on a vague quality like 'nice'? For EIE, who spend their entire lives practicing how to make other people feel certain ways? And even if this quote is all you are using for typing, he talked about finding a 'click' and spending significant type in analysis, retrospection, futurespection, etc., all things ESEs are not known for.

    but EIEs don't make you personally feel as good (or you've mistyped the EIEs you know) as ESEs so it's ruled out huh?

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    When I wake up in the morning, I think about all the people I'm going to talk to and interact with that day. I think of how a conversation might go so I have an expectation, and I try to think of how I WANT to come across in that interaction. I think of all the things that people could be frustrated at me about, how they might say it to me, and how I can make that experience NICE for the other person. I literally rehearse in my head various situations until it sounds right.
    I just want to say this sounds stressful. Maybe he has some control issues going on. I watched the whole video. He rambled so much I don't think I retained but a few things he said. Keep in mind I have no interest in the subject so I probably lost interest in his words early on.

    He vibes alpha. I think he values both Ne and Si > Ni based on video.

    I had a quick impression that he reminded me of my ESE sister the first few moments of the video. I am not saying he is ESE. I thought it was interesting that hotel got a similar impression. Maybe it was just an alpha vibing thing to me.

    Edit: Most of what he calls "reflecting" I call worrying. That is why he has to rehearse interactions in his head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    I don't have time for a good response but sorry for that strange outburst of anger @thehotelambush, not sure where it came from. @Aylen if that is an example of FeSi, how does FeNi manifest in a concrete way?
    I am not saying he is ESE. I think there is a possibility of ILE but the reasons behind that are sort of vague to me still. I remember how an ILI I once knew would focus on raising his EQ. He was a worrier too. He didn't understand why people responded to him they way they did and he made it a goal to study things related. He was introverted though so much of what he learned was not openly expressed with any level of enthusiasm.

    I got the idea this guy might be neurotic with his Fe HA. I could get a sense of Fi polr actually but I can't explain why. Just seems odd to me that an Fe lead would even spend time rehearsing his Fe... according to socionics, wouldn't this stuff come more naturally? He is obsessed with being liked or something. Sorry I can't organize this at the moment to be more coherent. If it comes to me later I will edit. Ne is obvious in the video.

    Fe as Leading Function

    The individual is always in tune to the emotional flow surrounding him, and responds to it spontaneously and directly. He seeks out and creates activities where people are totally engaged in what they are doing. Something's value is directly tied to how much it arouses his or another's passion. He is highly proactive about steering the emotional flow in the direction he himself considers ideal to a given situation. He may, for example, try to cheer people with jokes if he sees that they are too gloomy or, conversely, to get people to be serious and concentrated if they are too carefree during a crisis situation. Nevertheless, he believes emotions should be expressed as honestly as possible.
    If Fe is aware of emotional flow and responds spontaneously then why is he rehearsing and obsessing over his interactions? Makes no sense to me.

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    I think that could be Ni and Fe. I think Ni and Fe types do that kind of "rehearsing". But it depends on whether the Alpha SFs do the "rehearsing" or not, I'm not one so I wouldn't know.

    I can also kind of see Fe HA. He seems to be doing a kind of Ti-creative "explaining" here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I think that could be Ni and Fe. I think Ni and Fe types do that kind of "rehearsing". But it depends on whether the Alpha SFs do the "rehearsing" or not, I'm not one so I wouldn't know.
    Rehearsing might not even be type related. My EII sister does it often. She even rehearses arguments in her head but then she won't have them irl. Could be some kind of social anxiety too. My Fe is pretty conscious and dynamic. Like I get an overall impression of the situation and then I know how to direct the energy. Extroverts tend to take over and direct more than I do but I can still influence.

    Edit: Hmm, ignoring Ni

    Introverted Intuition (Ni, )

    While the ILE may seem entirely spontaneous to the observer, he will often plan extensively for the fallout of his ideas in order to rally the support of others and guide it towards actualization. As a by-product, most ILEs will view lectures about foresight and planning as irritating and unnecessary. There is no need to go over that which he has already considered, in the privacy of his own mind.

    Additionally, with too much attention to consequences the ILE loses the thrill of discovery associated with his base function and finds it difficult to think outside of Ni's natural complement: Se. He prefers to think about immediate possibilities (Ne) and what can be done to materialize them (Ti) rather than to dwell on the outcome of what might or might not be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Rehearsing might not even be type related. My EII sister does it often. She even rehearses arguments in her head but then she won't have them irl. Could be some kind of social anxiety too. My Fe is pretty conscious and dynamic. Like I get an overall impression of the situation and then I know how to direct the energy. Extroverts tend to take over and direct more than I do but I can still influence.
    Well, it's more like "strategic" than rehearsing. Like "If he says this, then I'll say this, and then..." and so on. That is probably more Ni.

    These sound probably weird for Fe ego:

    I literally rehearse in my head various situations until it sounds right.

    After a while of talking to myself, some possible ideas don't "feel right" and others feel really good. The feeling I look for is one of calm and relief. Ever gotten into an argument with someone in your head? Feel your face getting hot and your heartrate increasing? That's bad. Don't say those in real life. I always feel a little mental "click"

    In particular, I'll reflect first on the ones that felt off - the ones where I felt a bit hot in the face. How could I have said something differently? How could I have communicated more calmly to this person? How could I have helped this person feel more involved? I just continue to reflect until I feel that "click."
    It's like he's going about it more mechanically, and that's kind of weird. I would often think "If I say this, maybe he will say this, and...", or "should I say this? Maybe it'll come off as weird..." but not like "it feels right! It feels good! It clicked! My face feels hot!".

    And yeah, you can sometimes catch the ILE doing that ignoring Ni "rehearsing", and it's kind of weird. Creepy, even if I do it too hahaha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
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    Since there is some discussion of him type, I had him as IEE. He been reading computer science, yet a ethic type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Well, it's more like "strategic" than rehearsing. Like "If he says this, then I'll say this, and then..." and so on. That is probably more Ni.
    I have posted about this type of thing before. I do not call it rehearsing. It is hard to explain to someone who doesn't do it but I think you might know what I am talking about. It is like a rush of several possibilities descending all at once. I just know how I will respond to each one but it is not like specifically knowing each word. It is like a download of information that is just there should I need it. I focus in on what will probably happen so the rest of it is like floating in my subconscious even though I have access to it. grrr I should just look for the post where I explain it better. lol
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-07-2017 at 06:11 PM. Reason: correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    I don't have time for a good response but sorry for that strange outburst of anger @thehotelambush, not sure where it came from.
    That's ok -- hope you don't mind if I respond because you made some fair points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehtaro View Post
    ...I love this forum. "Random quality I have personally ascribed to one type over another," or "this kinda reminds me of blah..." or "I like them so they must be my dual" or "I mistyped myself and my fundamental understanding of socionics is flawed but that is too much effort to correct." No offense @thehotelambush because only the first applies to this post, but holy cow... I'm not even annoyed yall disagree but you disagree based on a vague quality like 'nice'? For EIE, who spend their entire lives practicing how to make other people feel certain ways? And even if this quote is all you are using for typing, he talked about finding a 'click' and spending significant type in analysis, retrospection, futurespection, etc., all things ESEs are not known for.

    but EIEs don't make you personally feel as good (or you've mistyped the EIEs you know) as ESEs so it's ruled out huh?
    I would agree the rehearsing-in-advance part does sound Ni on the face of it. I'm not saying it's inconsistent with EIE (it's very plausible), nor is this a way of attacking EIEs. I'm just saying that it's *somewhat* less likely for an EIE to explicitly prioritize making people feel good (this has to do with Si) rather than communicating an important message or whatever they happen to be feeling, no matter how pleasant or not it might be.

    But this is just based on that short quote, I can take a deeper look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    That's ok -- hope you don't mind if I respond because you made some fair points.



    I would agree the rehearsing-in-advance part does sound Ni on the face of it. I'm not saying it's inconsistent with EIE (it's very plausible), nor is this a way of attacking EIEs. I'm just saying that it's *somewhat* less likely for an EIE to explicitly prioritize making people feel good (this has to do with Si) rather than communicating an important message or whatever they happen to be feeling, no matter how pleasant or not it might be.

    But this is just based on that short quote, I can take a deeper look.
    I'm supposedly EIE and didn't take that personally. I want for people to have better lives and for them to have the opportunity to feel good, and I do think that mundanities pile up and improve or degrade quality of life. But I can't dance around people's the minutiae of people's feelings. I'm not capable of the micro-analysis the OP gets into, and I wouldn't plan out all my behaviors like that, as it would prevent me from responding accurately and honestly in the moment.

    What I can focus on instead are structural solutions to problems, playing a part in projects that might contribute positively to the world, and personally, learning how to use body language and phrasing that might be more persuasive and put people more at ease.

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    I had an immediate negative reaction to the video of him for what it's worth (nothing lol)

    But yah, I only clicked 'cause it reminded me of how I've heard of this guy before... He very well could be ILE or ESE


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    I would totally buy ILE since I think ILI and ILE can, with effort, step into one another's shoes, and moreso than any other type, for ILI, think like ILI and vice versa. Hence it makes sense to me that he and I maybe do the same simulation type thing except his is more decidedly Fe guided. I know if I really want to, I can think in Ne Ti terms at a relatively high level, almost as if I were ILE for a moment (I think LII is slightly different and it has to do with leading perception v judging). So it makes sense he would do the ILI simulation thing under the right circumstances.

    edit: for me I get this weird recursive quality when reading ILE descriptions written or explained by an ILE, where its like if I try to see it through their point of view its almost like they're describing ILI but in Ne Ti terms, such that while thinking in those terms I feel like for a moment I could be an ILE but its a mirage created by stepping into their way of thinking. I think ILE understands themselves quite like ILIs understand themselves in the broadest structural kind of way (in other words, they're looking at the same thing), but their preferences in what they understand that to be create a kind of distinction which is type itself. Its a very strange feeling. I wonder if any other pair of types gets it. I think it might be unique, because of that understanding, type that way is a form of (leading intuition) + (creative thinking) which creates an interpretation but there are two distinct ways of doing that Ne + Ti or Ni + Te.
    Last edited by Bertrand; 02-09-2017 at 04:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I had an immediate negative reaction to the video of him for what it's worth (nothing lol)

    But yah, I only clicked 'cause it reminded me of how I've heard of this guy before... He very well could be ILE or ESE
    Its midnight and I slept 4 hours woke up worrying about my job and letting my boss down, so anyway I see your post and it made me smile to myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaegar View Post
    Read an AMA on reddit of a one Sean "Day9" Plott, a relatively famous figure in the competitive cyber gaming community known for winning world cyber games as a Starcraft: Broodwar player in 2005, and now as an Esport Entrepenuer. Someone asked him about his mindset during the day and how he remains positive (He is frighteningly positive and energetic in general) and he replied with this post:

    "If you surf through some of my old posts on forums, you'll see an angry little kid. I'm super embarrassed sometimes when I see the sorts of things I used to do. Gaaaaagh.
    But, I've always wanted to be nice. I like to be nice and to help out. But how does one "work" on being nice? Here's my routine:
    When I wake up in the morning, I think about all the people I'm going to talk to and interact with that day. I think of how a conversation might go so I have an expectation, and I try to think of how I WANT to come across in that interaction. I think of all the things that people could be frustrated at me about, how they might say it to me, and how I can make that experience NICE for the other person. I literally rehearse in my head various situations until it sounds right.
    Suppose I'm going into a performance review with a boss later that day and I think he might be angry at my recent work. I'll try to rehearse exactly what I want to say to make the experience nice for HIM. How would I posture my body language? What words would I use? How would I repair this situation? After a while of talking to myself, some possible ideas don't "feel right" and others feel really good. The feeling I look for is one of calm and relief. Ever gotten into an argument with someone in your head? Feel your face getting hot and your heartrate increasing? That's bad. Don't say those in real life. I always feel a little mental "click" when I've thought of the right thing to say. It feels warm and I feel like it'll be nice for the other person. At the end of a day, I'll reflect on how those interactions went. In particular, I'll reflect first on the ones that felt off - the ones where I felt a bit hot in the face. How could I have said something differently? How could I have communicated more calmly to this person? How could I have helped this person feel more involved? I just continue to reflect until I feel that "click." Most importantly, I take time every few days to think about all the rather mundane, dry, utterly forgetful moments and conversations throughout the day. That I think is the real trick. It's so easy to "feel fine" during a conversation and to be unaware if it's negatively affecting anyone. That's where I've found little habits I do that may be offputting, like looking away from someone as they tell a joke, laughing into the distance. Fuck that, if I'm gonna laugh, I now try to look RIGHT at the person so they FEEL my enjoyment. After years of reflecting, adjusting, rehearsing, you just become more cheerful and happy. It took a hell of a lot of work and reflection, and I'm sure I grate on people and get snippy, but it's something I think a lot about. I worry about someone having a struggle in a day, and I say the one thing that pushes it into a "bad day." Everyone has immense struggles in the own life and I don't want to add to it. I want it to be better!"


    My initial impression is that he is a Fe and Ni user based on this answer. The way he describes predicting his body language in advance and how it would impact others as well as his reflections of it. I am currently under the belief that he is an EIE, but I have a friend who says he is IEE so I am curious what the minds here think about this post and whether it exemplifies Fe-Ni or Ni-Fe or anything else. Please share.

    Video interview of Day9 if interested:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0VnC_h6Y4w
    He might say he is good at all those things, and I'm sure he probably is to some degree, but the truth is he is way to "smarmy" to be a Fe/Ni ego type.

    His "yuk, yuks" phony laughs are awful. ESE or ILE imho just going off his persona and this op. Even his use of vocabulary reminds me of alpha language (creating harmony via emotional awareness), with 'smart' sounding vocabulary. "I take time every few days to think about the rather mundane, dry, utterly forgetful moments and conversations throughout the day".<------seriously who says something like that?? Sorry this is so insufferable I could personally handle about 4-5 hours of it before I went insane.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Definitely Fe but I would say Fe with Si. EIEs don't necessarily care about making people feel good, or the mundane aspects of interaction.
    Hah!! I wrote my response to op before I got the rest of the thread. Looks like I said something similar to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    He might say he is good at all those things, and I'm sure he probably is to some degree, but the truth is he is way to "smarmy" to be a Fe/Ni ego type.

    His "yuk, yuks" phony laughs are awful. ESE or ILE imho just going off his persona and this op. Even his use of vocabulary reminds me of alpha language (creating harmony via emotional awareness), with 'smart' sounding vocabulary. "I take time every few days to think about the rather mundane, dry, utterly forgetful moments and conversations throughout the day".<------seriously who says something like that?? Sorry this is so insufferable I could personally handle about 4-5 hours of it before I went insane.
    Lmao right?


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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Its midnight and I slept 4 hours woke up worrying about my job and letting my boss down, so anyway I see your post and it made me smile to myself.

    No opinion on type or thread content. Carry on.

    *hugs* You're from Canada too?


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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    *snip*
    I agree that the last part sounds dumb. I must say, however, it is plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did this to a certain extent. Either way, my judgement is that while he has the right idea, his writing is very campy.

    The video made made it seem as though he was at ease. It isn't so much as though he was trying to put everyone at ease, but instead it is more that his nonchalant nature put everyone at ease.

    Just based on guess, I'd say Ni is present because he tried to tackle each question in order, although that might be just good interviewing skills. Fe is a good match, as he gave a good performance.

    The one one thing I am certain of is that this guy is follows most of the rules of an interview. This leads me to believe he has experience in this matter.

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    Heart Chamber Chae's Avatar
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    Sort of unrelated to discussion at hand but recurs to /.

    I've read a journal about public mourning rituals in Sweden, it struck me as Fe blocked with Ni. They talked about how the media would create a collective emotion through the use of symbols, e.g. showing flags and priests performing a mass.

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