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Thread: All things Six

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    Default All things Six

    People have been making random picture threads for functional stackings so I'm going to make one for the Enneagram Six.

    colin_foran_03.jpg


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    Piglet. Sp/So phobic 6.

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    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    head triad problems


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    (this one feels more like 6 with a social instinct in stacking)
    Last edited by silke; 05-05-2015 at 04:33 AM.

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    "We are nonviolent with people who are nonviolent with us."

    "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

    "There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance next time."

    "Concerning nonviolence, it is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks."

    "If you're not ready to die for it, put the word 'freedom' out of your vocabulary."

    "A race of people is like an individual man; until it uses its own talent, takes pride in its own history, expresses its own culture, affirms its own selfhood, it can never fulfill itself."

    "I believe in the brotherhood of man, all men, but I don't believe in brotherhood with anybody who doesn't want brotherhood with me. I believe in treating people right, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to treat somebody right who doesn't know how to return the treatment."

    Malcolm X (cp 6)

    Last edited by Amber; 11-24-2014 at 06:22 PM.

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    http://www.healthyplace.com/blogs/an...nd-self-doubt/

    At the core of an anxiety disorder is not knowing when it is appropriate to trust our feelings. If a person canít trust his or her own thoughts because they are saying there is danger when there clearly is not, how can the person trust anything?
    Itís been established, however, that those of us with anxiety disorders canít trust our own judgment. That little voice in our heads is pretty damn useless, all things considered, and therein lies the problem.
    Many people with anxiety disorders live in a world where every feeling and thought is up for evaluation. We must operate on the idea that if we canít trust ourselves with minor decisions, we probably canít trust ourselves with major ones. If no decision is truly free from the effects of this disorder, then all our feelings are suspect.

    Conversely, if we can incorrectly read good or neutral situations as bad, isnít it just as likely that we can misread a bad situation as good? The same process that creates paranoia and/or anxiety out of nothing often completely misses mistakes. The great job we believe weíve done is just as likely to be a horrible mistake. We just havenít realized it, yet.
    The very act of managing anxiety leads people to doubt themselves because they are always checking in with their own mind.

    My own day-in and day-out internal conversation is always processing along these lines: ďI feel as though Iíve done something right/wrong. But did I really? I canít trust my feelings, so what objective information could I use to figure this out?Ē

    But where do I look to find this information? Always turning to other people to validate thoughts and feelings is a dangerous game. At best, we just begin mimicking their views. At worst, we choose the wrong people and their thoughts are the ones that are actually wrong.

    The treatment many of us learn in therapy to control our anxiety disorder encourages us to doubt ourselves! Constantly looking to outside sources for information or reassurance is exhausting and reinforces the notion that our thoughts cannot be trusted.

    I know for sure that I canít fully trust my own thoughts. I know my mind is broken. So when my mind tells me that I did a great job, wrote a great blog, or gave a great speech, how do I know it is true?

    I donít.

    People living with anxiety disorders have to question their own thoughts and feelings every second of every day. Therapy, medication, experience, and trusted people in our lives can make it easier, but at the end of the day, we have to move forward with more self doubt than most people can ever imagine.
    Mental illness isn't for the weak.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    “Doubt is an uncomfortable condition, but certainty is a ridiculous one.”

    “If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things.”

    “Doubt isn't the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith.”

    “You are never dedicated to something you have complete confidence in. No one is fanatically shouting that the sun is going to rise tomorrow. They know it's going to rise tomorrow. When people are fanatically dedicated to political or religious faiths or any other kinds of dogmas or goals, it's always because these dogmas or goals are in doubt.”





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    Found this video a while ago on EIDB, seems to encapsulate an extreme cp 6 fixation rather well
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    A sx/so 6 with a strong 4 fix



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    possibly limited to Sexual 6



    Last edited by Amber; 03-29-2015 at 10:46 PM.

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    Everything you’ve ever wanted is on the other side of fear.
    – George Addair

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    Not implying that Elvis is E6, but just the song.

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    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    [VideoHere]

    Not implying that Elvis is E6, but just the song.
    One of my favorite Elvis songs. Definitely 6-ish lyrically.

    thinking-please-be-patient-thecuriousbrain.com_.jpg

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    Last edited by inumbra; 03-29-2015 at 09:01 PM.

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    “Panic is the sudden realization that everything around you is alive.”

    “Paranoia is just having the right information.”

    (William S. Burroughs)


    “Fear of vikings built castles.” (Charles Manson)
    Last edited by Amber; 04-08-2015 at 01:20 AM.

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    I kind of wonder if borderline personality disorder is the result of what a really messed up 6 looks like. Or maybe it's a personality disorder that sixes are more prone to. Borderline traits sound like severely unhealthy six traits....


    The reason Sixes are so loyal to others is that they do not want to be abandoned and left without support—their Basic Fear. Thus, the central issue for type Six is a failure of self-confidence. Sixes come to believe that they do not possess the internal resources to handle life’s challenges and vagaries alone, and so increasingly rely on structures, allies, beliefs, and supports outside themselves for guidance to survive. If suitable structures do not exist, they will help create and maintain them.

    ------

    Level 6: To compensate for insecurities, they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems, taking a tough stance toward "outsiders." Highly reactive and defensive, dividing people into friends and enemies, while looking for threats to their own security. Authoritarian while fearful of authority, highly suspicious, yet, conspiratorial, and fear-instilling to silence their own fears.

    Unhealthy Levels
    Level 7: Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others

    Level 8: Feeling persecuted, that others are "out to get them," they lash-out and act irrationally, bringing about what they fear. Fanaticism, violence.

    Level 9: Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, "skid row," self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders.


    Borderline personality disorder

    These individuals are very sensitive to environmental circumstances. The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger, even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (e.g., sudden despair in reaction to a clinician’s announcing the end of the hour; panic or fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this “abandonment” implies they are “bad.” These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Relationships and the person’s emotions may sometimes be seen by others or characterized as being shallow.

    ---

    The most distinguishing symptoms of BPD are marked sensitivity to rejection, negative criticism, and thoughts and fears of possible abandonment.Overall, the features of BPD include unusually intense sensitivity in relationships with others, difficulty regulating emotions, and impulsivity. Other symptoms may include feeling unsure of one's personal identity and values, having paranoid thoughts when feeling stressed, and severe dissociation.
    Last edited by fox; 05-05-2015 at 06:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I kind of wonder if borderline personality disorder is the result of what a really messed up 6 looks like. Or maybe it's a personality disorder that sixes are more prone to. Borderline traits sound like severely unhealthy six traits....
    I think it covers quite a lot of borderline traits, but seeing the e6ness in it also helps me feel like I'm not so disordered. But some borderline traits fit other enneagram types as well.

    At the core of borderline personality disorder is, to put it simplified, an amygdala (controls emotional reactions) that is set too sensitively. This leads to
    * increased sensitivity to signals of possible threat (distress and/or conflict),
    * increased intensity (excessively high levels of emotional arousal...think of going from 0 to 60 before a pin drops)
    * lowered resilience (the ability to bounce back from negative affect...think of how long it would take to burn off the hormones the body had been flooded with, while the mind/body is still highly sensitive to threat signals and high levels of emotional arousal.)

    A kid growing up with such a system would constantly be invalidated as people tell them they aren't noticing the signals they are noticing, or noone else is feeling like that so therefore neither should they, etc. Invalidating this high sensitivity and high intensity system doesn't teach the child how to cope with it all, and in fact models to the child to deny, question, doubt what they are feeling, even as they are feeling it. This leads to a distorted and unstable sense of self.

    Jaak Panksepp has mapped out 7 emotional systems that most mammals share. The three aversive emotions are
    * anger/frustration, RAGE system
    * separation panic/distress, DISTRESS/PANIC system
    * uncertainty/doubt, FEAR system.
    These map pretty nicely to the enneagram core fixations.

    BPD's impulsivities can be motivated by any of the 7 emotional systems.
    The BPD symptom of "inappropriate, intense anger, or problems controlling anger" fits when the RAGE system (anger/frustration) is activated. Leading to enneagram's anger/frustration related fixations.
    The BPD symptom of "extreme reactions to real/perceived abandonment" fits when the DISTRESS system is activated. Leading to enneagram's image/acceptance related fixations.
    The BPD symptom of "stress related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms fits when the FEAR system is activated. Leading to enneagram's anxiety related fixations.

    There are a total of 9 possible symptoms of BPD, of which a person only need 5 to qualify for diagnosis. Of those symtpoms, 4 are natural byproducts of the high emotional sensitivity (HES), high emotional intensity (HEI), and low resiliency that stem from the basic core problem. A 5th symptom (distorted and unstable sense of self) comes from the sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, plans, goals that happen when one has HES and HEI. However, a person can learn to overcome this part through self observation, analysis, diaries, list making, etc. A 6th symptom (pattern of stormy relationships and intense feelings of closeness and intense feelings of dislike (not necessarily the same person)), occurs when around people who trigger HES. And the final three possible symptoms produce 'flavors' of BPD, these would fit the enneagram fixation types/wings/tritypes.

    One of the biggest reasons, I believe, that BPD and e6 seem to fit so well together comes from how BPD is commonly 'treated', whether by laymen (invalidation of the bpd person's HES/HEI), or by therapists (see my post above in this thread) wherein the therapy actively, purposefully, encourages self-doubt...leading to e6 anxiety fixations.


    Edited to add: for myself, the HES/HEI runs in my father's genes. He had it, I have it, my daughter has it. His symptoms include the anger, controlling, and image fixations (e8/e3), but not the anxiety/doubts. My daughter's includes controlling and separation distress (e2/e1). Mine are overwhelmingly anxiety and doubt (e6).

    However, when I am healthy, I fit e7 more than e6, and when I am feeling pressured and stressed out I fit e6 more. (Also being manic-depressive doesn't help either, lol.)
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    Average Levels
    • Start investing their time and energy into whatever they believe will be safe and stable. Organizing and structuring, they look to alliances and authorities for security and continuity. Constantly vigilant, anticipating problems.
    • To resist having more demands made on them, they react against others passive-aggressively. Become evasive, indecisive, cautious, procrastinating, and ambivalent. Are highly reactive, anxious, and negative, giving contradictory, “mixed signals.” Internal confusion makes them react unpredictably.
    • To compensate for insecurities, they become sarcastic and belligerent, blaming others for their problems, taking a tough stance toward “outsiders.” Highly reactive and defensive, dividing people into friends and enemies, while looking for threats to their own security. Authoritarian while fearful of authority, highly suspicious, yet, conspiratorial, and fear-instilling to silence their own fears.

    Unhealthy Levels
    • Fearing that they have ruined their security, they become panicky, volatile, and self-disparaging with acute inferiority feelings. Seeing themselves as defenseless, they seek out a stronger authority or belief to resolve all problems. Highly divisive, disparaging and berating others.
    • Feeling persecuted, that others are “out to get them,” they lash-out and act irrationally, bringing about what they fear. Fanaticism, violence.
    • Hysterical, and seeking to escape punishment, they become self-destructive and suicidal. Alcoholism, drug overdoses, “skid row,” self-abasing behavior. Generally corresponds to the Passive-Aggressive and Paranoid personality disorders.

    - See more at: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/t....6V0febmB.dpuf




    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Very enlightening and true..thanks for that

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    Melvin Purvis E6



    Purvis added, ďA sense of responsibility is often an effective substitute for courageĒ [...]
    Melvin Purvis was a courageous man. His epitaph is carved in stone: ďSaepe Timui Sed Numquam CucurriĒ (ďAlways Afraid, Never RunĒ).
    So, as he and other agents moved in on Dillinger on the sidewalk outside the theater, Purvis would later admit, ďI was very nervous; it must have been a squeaky voice that called out, ĎStick íem up Johnny, we have you surrounded.íĒ Dillinger drew his automatic pistol, but it never fired. Public Enemy Number One was shot by Purvisís men and lay dying. ďLater after leaving this scene,Ē Purvis wrote, ďI tried to button up my coat and found both buttons gone. Apparently I had grabbed for my gun without thinking, and I am frank to say that I do not know how it came into my handĒ [...]
    The romantic newspaper writers have, on occasion, pictured me in their deathless prose as a combination of Wild Bill Hickok, Nick Carter and Frank Merriwell. Nothing could be farther from the truth; I am not a gun fighter; I am not a wily sleuth; and I am not a Fearless Frank. To tell the truth, I was thoroughly frightened every time it fell to my lot to carry a gun on a foray of any kind.
    There were men who served with me who never knew the emotion of fear. They belonged to the glory company of history, those joyous daredevils who, from time immemorial, have been vainly waiting for a commander to order a charge on the gateways of hell. I admire them, but my nervous system is not built that way. I never led a raid without apprehension, and only the knowledge that there was a job there to do kept me functioning in the death-haunted sectors where bullets were flying.
    Purvis (NP) vs. Hoover (PA) [x]

    Regardless of this controversy, none of Purvis's celebrity status for capturing gangsters sat too well with Hoover. He had an unspoken policy that "no one employee of this Division can be responsible for the successful termination of any one case..." Though Hoover had stood behind his favored agent after the Little Bohemia debacle, once the press tried to idolize Purvis, Hoover turned on his protťgť. Hoover attacked Purvis with petty criticisms on the neatness of his office, chastised his administrative job performance, and disparaged the way he managed his agents. It was reported that Hoover even went so far as to assign Purvis "bad cases" to help ensure his failure.
    [Source] [Source]

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    19b2ff8a2b3fa66393b255599ff7b2bf.jpg If it's to small to read, here's a link: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/19/b2/ff/19b2ff8a2b3fa66393b255599ff7b2bf.jpg
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    I see most 6s at least the Sx leading ones, but perhaps all of them, live in between the two extremes of either feeling themselves very strong and able to face anything or totally weak and unable to face anything at all, and this often changes within the same day, so a 6 is kind of ambiguous in that sense. In one hour he's hopeless and totally ruined in life, some hour later he may feel like he can face anything. The lesson for me has been trying to balance these poles into one constant feeling of not being either 'I'm so strong and can do anything' and 'I'm totally hopeless', to a more realistic and wiser view that everyone is just in the middle, nobody's 'superman' but nobody's also totally a loser. This dichotomy is a big issue for Sixes in general ime.
    For one good thing, Sixes have a very precise radar for spotting mental, emotional and physical weakness/strength in others when they're balanced. Much moreso than 8s, who often presume others are weaker than they actually are at any given moment and overestimate their own strength, whilst the 6 has a unique ability to realistically assess a person's weakness/strength at any given moment. I have seen this happens unconsciously in NF 6s while it's more conscious in ST 6s, though I'm not sure this could be held as a general pattern.
    Last edited by Airman; 02-03-2016 at 02:36 AM.

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    linkin park lyrics in general lol


    "Lying From You"

    When I pretend everything is what I want it to be
    I look exactly like what you had always wanted to see
    When I pretend, I canít forget about the criminal I am
    Stealing second after second just cause I know I can but
    I canít pretend this is the way itíll stay Iím just
    (trying to bend the truth)
    I canít pretend Iím who you want me to be, so Iím

    [Chorus:]
    (Lying my way from you)
    No no turning back now
    (I wanna be pushed aside so let me go)
    No no turning back now
    (Let me take back my life,Iíd rather be all alone)
    No turning back now
    (Anywhere on my own cause I can see)
    No no turning back now
    (The very worst part of you is me)

    I remember what they taught to me
    Remember condescending talk of who I ought to be
    Remember listening to all of that and this again
    So I pretended up a person who was fittiní in
    And now you think this person really is me and Iím
    (Trying to bend the truth)
    But the more I push the more I'm pulling away 'cause I'm

    [Chorus:]
    (Lying my way from you)
    No no turning back now
    (I wanna be pushed aside so let me go)
    No no turning back now
    (Let me take back my life Iíd rather be all alone)
    No turning back now
    (Anywhere on my own cause I can see)
    No no turning back now
    (The very worst part of you)
    (The very worst part of you is ME)

    This isnít what I wanted to be, I never thought that what I said would
    have you running from me
    Like This
    This isnít what I wanted to be, I never thought that what I said would
    have you running from me
    Like This
    This isnít what I wanted to be, I never thought that what I said would
    have you running from me
    Like This
    This isnít what I wanted to be, I never thought that what I said would
    have you running from me
    Like This

    [Chorus:]
    (You)
    No turning back now
    (I wanna be pushed aside so let me go)
    No no turning back now
    (Let me take back my life Iíd rather be all alone)
    No turning back now
    (Anywhere on my own cause I can see)
    No no turning back now
    (The very worst part of you)
    (The very worst part of you is me

  34. #34
    lump's Avatar
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    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
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