I hope you mention your state. Naturally people might have certain conditions they'd have their state secede so I'm vaguely asking about your general interest and openness to the idea.
Americans (mostly), are you open to your state seceding?
I hope you mention your state. Naturally people might have certain conditions they'd have their state secede so I'm vaguely asking about your general interest and openness to the idea.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
California and No. I don't see the point. Also, I grew up all over the country in many different states, so I don't really have a place (or State) that I consider home. I feel like an American. Or more than that, I feel like a person in the word. Why so much division?
I'm open to other states seceding.
Yes, ?Scottish?
Should have added this to the poll choices. You're among the 17% (based on a small sample) and there's a around 50% statistical chance that you'd like California to secede. Among those who are open to other states seceding, 20% said Texas and 25% said New York.Originally Posted by McB
Also, fuck Åland.
Catalonians are pretty interested, too. Apparently when Spain wins in football, catalonians (and basques?) don't really celebrate. Going crazy about a ball that some people that are from your culture kicked around better than the others seems like big thing in Mediterranean nationalism.
They'd likely try socialism and afaik Scotland would have been hit by economic realities soon. Not still opposed to either attempts.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
I don't know how well it would work for Florida to secede. We're pretty much divided on every political issue. We're a melting pot of just about everything and depending on where you go, things like racism exist in the extreme or don't exist at all and people swing one way or another politically. I imagine for secession to work, we'd first have to have a civil war to decide if we are going to secede or not.
I do support the idea of secession for states that don't want to have to support the economic corruption of the united states government however. It might become necessary at some point, if things keep going the way they are in the next ten years or so.
One option might be two only secede partially or separate secessions. More options for people of varying political beliefs.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
not american, but hoping this happens soon for teh lulz
also, what lungs said about different values
but if it ever did come to pass, china & russia will start to seem all the more menacing
That would be interesting.
This could be a confederation, It's like a federation, but with even more independency of the individual states. It's the closest thing you can get before actually dissolving. If you want an extreme example for this, look no further than the German history.
This is a map of the German Confederation from 1815 to 1866:
A confederation has both advantages and disadvantages. A fragmentation of such a degree would make it much easier to realize diverging social/political ideas next to one another. The confederation would be like a marketplace for the people to choose their favorite state (if they are free to go, that is), which will put the leaders under pressure to make life better for their customers/citizens. However, it would also make an organization beyond the small states very difficult if not nearly impossible. This complicates the foreign policy of the confederation and makes the whole organization a lot less efficient. Or rather, it makes it much more difficult to be efficient, because even totalitarian states are not necessarily better organized.
Last edited by Pa3s; 10-06-2014 at 11:52 AM. Reason: typo
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
The opposite really, i favour upwards push of authority above more direct representation. Mostly because having a lot of political entities enables the kind of "voting with your feet" style marketplace @Pa3s described in his post about confederation.
In my idea world there'd be a very light government that governs the entire world. It would only do an equal tax system and uphold peace (this merges foreign affairs with justice department and limits foreign affairs, e.g. military to the same limits of law).
The rest of governance then could be enacted by private or semi public entities based on crowdfunding/crowdsourcing.
The stripping away of trade barriers and such would help more than all the idiotic "helping poor countries" programs we have now (we take with one hand and give back with one finger right now).
The abolishment of national governments would clear up jobs to do interesting stuff instead and make available money to actually buy said interesting stuff
The loss of the nation state as identity giver would hopefully slowly dissolve nationalism and make people organise through interest groups and stuff (like the most powerfull faction, the secret t16t incrowd)
This ofc is completely unrealistic and has it's own problems, the main one being that there'd be no checks and balances really to that super government, but oh well..
That said; i like the idea of seceding because it shakes things up and it's excitingAlso, in the current state of the world it seems to be a really good idea (scotland) and/or understandable (catalonia). Concerning the US, well, i'm not sure it'd be good for the us itself, but i think the world might benefit from a less monolythic us. I also think russia, inda and china, in time, might disintergrate...
A move towards federalism, with states of 5 to 10 million, seems very attractive to me, especially recently. I don't think it would be a good idea for countries that are unstable even though a little paradoxically that is something that makes secession far more likely! (I don't think it would be wise to neighbour newly formed fragments with various dangerous elements and little common purpose (e.g. through a sense of identity or shared values or whatever)).
The way the world is moving (at least in the Western world) it seems that the importance of your country being heard on the Stage is much reduced: having more direct representation is far more important (politicians\diplomats should not be heard purely because of which country they are from, but because of who they represent).
The rise and fall of nations is something of a process which occurs and recurs. I go with the flow and perhaps make my own ripples and wave in the flow for my own purpose and vision.
I'm opposed to fragmentation at the present time since the modern world isn't ready for revolution and there is much to accomplish while this golden age lasts.
My family on my mother's and father's side have lived 50 years of revolution and I don't think I want to experience that or let my nephews experience that just yet, don't think it will happen either.
When the Chinese revolution occurred in 1911 half of my mom's family died of starvation, disease and the many ills revolution brings. I would not exist if the Japanese had caught my grandfather and baby mother in a underground well for both would surely be put to the bayonet like so many during that period.
My grandfather on my father's side(a scholar) gave up most of what he owned to the peasantry that live on his land and thus when the landowner purges came he was spared. But he died of a brain aneurysm in 1952 but his immediate family was spared. My granduncles were not so fortunate. 2 of my uncles on my father's side died young, the rest were sacrificed(can only pay for 1 child's education) so that my father could go to school. My father and mother made something of themselves and came here to avoid the troubles of states. This is my story but no-one alive today does not have a story like this(known and unknown) because history is long and we are but the end of a stanza.
I prefer not to throw life way or take life away on lies like members of ISIS, various other groups, etc. To die for justice is honorable, but rarely are our causes truly just and often our death is mere ignominy.
New York here, not for secession. I've lived in both California and Texas, two of the states most positioned to secede if they wish. That would be a huge mess, and I'll admit I'm not sure of all the implications, but I have some kneejerk thoughts.
California has one of the world's largest economies, larger than most entire nations', on its own. It produces tremendous amounts of food. (It could function autonomously, although it doesn't have enough water.) It's progressive and therefore a positive influence on the U.S., according to my values. I'd like it to remain part of the U.S. Besides, the feds are sucking its right tit. Why give that up? :\
Texas is a wingnut-dominated state. I'm not sure of all the implications for its secession, either, but one thing I'd hate is to think of there being nothing left to prevent it from becoming even more anti-progressive. I'd like to see some semblance of potential federal protection for the vulnerable people who live there and haven't any easy way out of Texas owing to their poverty and other cultural factors. I wouldn't put it past Texas to become militaristic and aggressive, either, as a nation unto itself. Neighbors, beware.
i'm in south carolina. we already seceded once or at least attempted to. i don't really care enough about this state though, probably moving soon.
maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
go ask the frog what the scorpion knows
I don't have a problem with succession in general, but I don't believe my state could survive on its own.
When I hear of awful states around the globe I tend to have the optimism that we are overall moving in the right direction, and hope that people in such places will just move to better places (I don't mean to sound like "If you don't like it, why don't you just move?!!"...that would be an utterly incorrect mindset).
How is your hope that they will move to better places so different from "If you don't like it . . . "? I don't mean to sound harsh, I just don't see the difference except one is put politely in the 1st and 3rd person and the other is put rudely in the 2nd person, so I'm wondering if you can clarify.
Because I have the feeling of being utterly incapable of helping such people (whether through being overwhelmed or being selfish) despite wishing to do so. If I could overthrow tyrants and open all borders, I would do so.
Thanks for explaining. I think people are highly repressed and weakened right now and that the feeling of helplessness prevails, so I doubt you're truly selfish about it.
From Florida and as similar to what has been said before, really wouldn't see the point in it. I'd imagine any succession would be for political reasons, as there really is little strong cultural identity that would bring about succession (especially compared to the old south identity that use to exist long ago), and a political reason for succession really wouldn't make much of a difference if it's based on left or right policies since this state is so evenly divided. To get rid out of the right you would have to divide the state largely since the right is so wide spread in small counties and to get rid of the left, you would have to get rid of several large cities or more specifically the Miami-Dade area.
A succession would probably be more advantageous compared to most other states except maybe Hawaii, Texas, and California due to an economic and geographic advantage, especially if the succession is in a more hostile sense to the United States, but again wouldn't see the advantage in it unless the US goes super batshit insane in policy or economics, far far worse than it already is, with Florida being little affected compared to the rest of the country and leaves to prevent it from getting worse.
Last edited by The Sublime Relianum; 10-08-2014 at 08:24 PM.
Long live the Confederate States of Luna. The moon shall rise again!
Sure, why not. It would make things more interesting for a while. I don't think it would last for any state, but it would stir things up in the news for a little bit. It would probably just devolve into negotiations and the state agreeing to rejoin, but I see nothing wrong with it. America was founded on secession. Many of the founders essentially endorsed much more violent forms of rebellion so I don't see it really contravening American principles.
Last edited by Contra; 10-08-2014 at 08:36 PM.
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