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Thread: Why other than duality?

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    Exclamation Why other than duality?

    What makes people marry someone who is not their duality?
    -Slava

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    if you're really ILE, you may have an excuse

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    Lack of attractive duals, extraneous life circumstances, just not knowing Socionics...
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    I think in some cases duals might hate each other and themselves too, because of society. For example in America, an ENTj with an ESFj, they might love each other and crap on the INTj types.....

    There are exceptions though.. Like in the movie, "Just Like Heaven" and "Garden State"
    -Slava

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    Finding the qualities and behaviours of non-duals attractive, preferable and lovable.

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    What about rainbow personalities? How do they find chemistry?
    -Slava

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    I think in some cases duals might hate each other and themselves too, because of society. For example in America, an ENTj with an ESFj, they might love each other and crap on the INTj types.....
    Retard warning level: Orange
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Because sometimes you meet someone and you fall in lurv
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    I think in some cases duals might hate each other and themselves too, because of society. For example in America, an ENTj with an ESFj, they might love each other and crap on the INTj types.....

    There are exceptions though.. Like in the movie, "Just Like Heaven" and "Garden State"
    dunno, dude, I only watch movies like Fatal Attraction and Basic Instinct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Because sometimes you meet someone and you fall in lurv
    Holy fuck, I actually agree with Starfall on something.

    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Holy fuck, I actually agree with Starfall on something.

    I almost forgot who you were for a sec.

    Wb, arch nemesis.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Because the normal response of 99.998% of the population is "what the fuck is duality"

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    Break up with their dual? Seduction. Youth? Stuff happens.

    http://www.thestar.com.my/Lifestyle/...ll-over-again/

    This dual relationship broke up a while ago but like they're back together after 11 years after having kids and such with non-dual partners.

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    Because of love .... Bwahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    Break up with their dual? Seduction. Youth? Stuff happens.
    Breaking up with your dual is not unprecedented. The only duals that will basically never, ever, break up are EIE/LSI, because they (and particularly the EIE) are hyper-committed to making relationships happen. On the other hand IEI/SLE is actually a neverending cycle of the IEI breaking up with the SLE and the SLE winning back the IEI.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Lack of attractive duals, extraneous life circumstances, just not knowing Socionics...
    do my eyes deceive me

    is it really...

    no it can't be...

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    To give an example; as IEI, my dual SLE can be self serving and astoundingly unfaithful. Hilariously so. So if I feel my Magic NF powers cant keep their absent Fi in check, theres trust issues. With SEE those trust issues arent there, but there are other issues, like out of nowhere betrayal and irritible things here and there. If I find SLE too shallow a thinker, where communication is hindered, ILE gives that. If I feel SLE is just too different a person to hang around (insecurities or value differences id presume), LSI is alot more similar to me, even if we ultimately are less capable of dealing with each other.
    If I feel someones role in the relationship is to pamper me, go benefactor. If I get off on pampering, go beneficiary.

    And so on. People get into relationships with those that fit their idea of what a relationship should be. Not everyone has the focus on ease of communication, the strength of duals.

    Also, Slava has the most hysterical avatar.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    I think activity has a greater initial pull then duality, which has to do with your hidden agenda being on full display in the other person. Also both activity partners are either E or I which makes it easier for the two to understand each other, and perhaps initiate contact.
    Last edited by Waster; 10-04-2014 at 09:25 PM.





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    Duality seems to only be appreciated when it starts to cover for the weak functions. if you get this covering from somewhere else, then i suppose other relations might seem more attractive.

    Duality is ideal in the sense its a self contained system

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    Duality is the easiest relationship (and makes life easy), but it's not all that exciting. Also, there's A LOT to compatibility that's completely unrelated to Socionics. And hey, not everyone knows themselves that well. You may think you've found just what you need in another type.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Because there is an invisible war between genders always going on. In an ideal world, you could try different options and settle for what works best. But in the real world you can rarely take back someone you cut off for a number of reasons (resentment, because the other person also moved on, etc.). So most people stays whenever they feel something works reasonably well. They do it because it's the smart thing to do. In the end, what you actually have will always win over what you could possibly have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post
    I think activity has a greater initial pull then duality, which has to do with your hidden agenda being on full display in the other person. Also both activity partners are either E or I which makes it easier for the two to understand each other, and perhaps initiate contact.
    People being E/I identicals doesn't foster understanding, it fosters conflict. The basis of the E/I dichotomy is whether the natural inclination of the individual is to take or cede initiative, which means that Introtims never "pull" to each other, and Extrotims clash constantly, because each is trying to set the rules of engagement. This becomes steadily worse as the other person's type becomes more similar to your own, because you start encroaching on each other's personal space.

    Personally, I've had the worst personal conflicts with (in order): IEEs, SEEs, ESIs, ILEs, LSEs, EIIs, EIEs, and SLEs. My biggest problem with SLIs so far has been them randomly disappearing on me, which sucks, but doesn't reach epic brawl proportions because they don't even engage in those.
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    The only duals that will basically never, ever, break up are EIE/LSI, because they (and particularly the EIE) are hyper-committed to making relationships happen.
    I think that statement is true of me. Interestingly, don't think EIE/LSI relationships are smoother than other relationships. I can be amazingly selfish, then try to smooth it over with some obnoxious Fe display, which I then blindly believe has worked.

    From what I have noticed of an LSI family member, there is a high degree of fatalistic commitment, which perhaps helps in getting along with people like me.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I think that statement is true of me. Interestingly, don't think EIE/LSI relationships are smoother than other relationships. I can be amazingly selfish, then try to smooth it over with some obnoxious Fe display, which I then blindly believe has worked.
    I didn't say that Beta rationals had smooth relationships -- I said they were committed.

    Weirdly, from what I've seen I think EIE females will tend to instigate more relationship drama than males. I'm not sure why that is -- probably because it tends to fall on women to set the tone of the relationship, and EIEs "absorb" that. LSI females tend to be more cutesy/sweet than males, for the same reason (social osmosis).
    What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.

    Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).

    For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.

    -Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Duality is the easiest relationship (and makes life easy), but it's not all that exciting. Also, there's A LOT to compatibility that's completely unrelated to Socionics. And hey, not everyone knows themselves that well. You may think you've found just what you need in another type.
    ..it's not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blood moon View Post
    ..it's not?
    Maybe it is for Betas, idk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I think that statement is true of me. Interestingly, don't think EIE/LSI relationships are smoother than other relationships. I can be amazingly selfish, then try to smooth it over with some obnoxious Fe display, which I then blindly believe has worked.

    From what I have noticed of an LSI family member, there is a high degree of fatalistic commitment, which perhaps helps in getting along with people like me.
    Can you explain what you mean by "fatalistic commitment"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blood moon View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by "fatalistic commitment"?
    This particular LSI enjoys a challenge and likes the idea of struggling, and mastering problems. When he got married, he mentioned in a sweet note that he was looking forward to going through the good times, and the hard times, with his bride.

    My own philosophy is that contrary to the dream of living happily ever after, when you are choosing a partner for life, you should choose someone that you would want to go through hard times with.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    Break up with their dual? Seduction. Youth? Stuff happens.

    http://www.thestar.com.my/Lifestyle/...ll-over-again/

    This dual relationship broke up a while ago but like they're back together after 11 years after having kids and such with non-dual partners.
    Faye Wong is SLI (not IEI?)
    Nic Tse is SLE I think.

    on the contrary I think Faye and Li Yapeng may have been duals, but he was ultimately too boring for her.

    !!!!! if you disagree we should have an asiancelebtypingduel

    EDIT: Nic's maybe maybe delta ST as well
    Last edited by lemontrees; 10-09-2014 at 05:34 AM.
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    because human
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Faye Wong is SLI (not IEI?)
    Nic Tse is SLE I think.

    on the contrary I think Faye and Li Yapeng may have been duals, but he was ultimately too boring for her.

    !!!!! if you disagree we should have an asiancelebtypingduel

    EDIT: Nic's maybe maybe delta ST as well
    do you think dual relations tend to be boring?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    What makes people marry someone who is not their duality?
    Love, money, getting along, great sex, niceness, respect, trust, cool surname, greencard, extended insurance benefits. The usual.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    You'd have to ask them.
    Easy Day

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    What about rainbow personalities? How do they find chemistry?
    Falling in love with other rainbows. Most people are either blue or pink and are attracted to the opposite because its complementary. A few people are hybrids of a lot of colors and are attracted to other hybrids. They are the GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAY people! <3


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    Quote Originally Posted by ryoka14 View Post
    do you think dual relations tend to be boring?
    no, it wasn't related.

    basically i was saying that they were possibly duals but their particular personalities don't seem to mesh?

    when they announced their separation to the public he wrote something like "all i wanted was a family; you felt you were destined to be a legend"

    nic tse is more glam lol

    do you think duality is boring?
    There was no place that destruction did not touch...At best it made everything feel flooded, urgent, while pushing towards decay and exposing the imminent failure of managing to maintain a form at all. Inside this was the kernel of wholeness. She could be broken down into a small, granular piece, a bit of debris jostling against other bits of debris, and in that friction there was some sense of having a boundary or a presence, and that thing-ness of the self, reduced to a basic instinctive sensation, was an almost-nothing feeling that, in its small hard knot of a numb halo, made it clear to her that you were here, you were now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    no, it wasn't related.

    basically i was saying that they were possibly duals but their particular personalities don't seem to mesh?

    when they announced their separation to the public he wrote something like "all i wanted was a family; you felt you were destined to be a legend"

    nic tse is more glam lol

    do you think duality is boring?
    im not sure, i cant comment since dont think i have had one yet. i think i know one relationship of duality though LII and ESE

    i think for the extrovert it can be boring at times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    A sociological answer: because paying the bills is a lot easier when you don't have to do it alone.
    Word.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Faye Wong is SLI (not IEI?)
    Nic Tse is SLE I think.

    on the contrary I think Faye and Li Yapeng may have been duals, but he was ultimately too boring for her.

    !!!!! if you disagree we should have an asiancelebtypingduel

    EDIT: Nic's maybe maybe delta ST as well
    No way is Faye Wong and Li Yapeng duals. Their 2011 interview is a exercise in bad body language and information clashes. There was no closeness, they haven't had any closeness for a long time, years and years before their divorce.

    Nic is ILE-Ti, CD thinking, very Fi polr consider he hasn't seen his kids for like 6 months allegedly. He's basically cut off Cecelia Cheung out of his life, probably for good reason too because that girl is a bit crazy. He is not a caregiver type, he's a clear infantile, this guy's never dated a girl younger than him in his life. After this guy broke up with CC, he learned how to cook and has a cooking show, I think obviously he was trying to self-manage his Si-DS, he's friends with Zhao Wei now who is ESE. This guy is types approved. Tony Leung, Carina Lau, Zhao Wei, Gao Yuan Yuan, etc.

    http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/in...#axzz3I2MXXYB7

    Why he likes older women.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIjs3VLgxSc

    There's more intimacy/closeness in this video than Faye Wong, Li Yapeng ever displayed to each other and they're not duals, I think Illusion, ILE - IEI.

    Nic Tse spent the last 11 years dealing with his break up over Faye Wong, and he's the one that messed up due to his cheating with CC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGf5iRV15nU

    This is the song he did on Faye Wong's wedding day to Li Yapeng, and he's crushed by it and very emotional in the song.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tse
    Tse opens up about his marriage and divorce on the TVB talk show Telling Maria, saying so much that the interview lasts three episodes. He is reticent, however, when he is asked about Wong. Haltingly, he says: "In the past, Faye and I...a lot of things...what's past is past. She now has a family. I can only talk about my stuff."
    After his divorce

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28bJKvlH4Y

    This is the video he did for Faye Wong's birthday 9 years later.

    When he was asked about Faye Wong after her divorce and whether or not he would get back together with her, he said "I want, I want, I want" three times.

    Faye Wong never got over this guy either.

    http://www.straitstimes.com/lifestyl...e-happier-now-

    See Zhao Wei + Nic Tse tv banter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhao Wei + Nic Tse
    He said: "I've never had a lock on anyone, there's no one with me."

    But she dropped him a hint that Wong had never got over him, saying: "Someone isn't with you, but you have a lock on her heart."
    Out of the relationships I have observed there's only 2 that have this sort of powerful effect on people and that's Duality and Benefit, but I don't see extrovert for Faye Wong.

    I'm not going to go into how the entire power-entertainment-matrix around Faye Wong, Nic Tse and assorted individuals are all some sort of valuing alphas/betas, but that actually happens to be the case.

    And yes, I am rather obsessed about this.

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    Why do people marry into non-dual relationships? Unfortunately, for us, the answer is unobtainable it seems, for reality and truth are at odds with one another. Let's accept socionics psychology as being true but we know socionics theory contends with the reality in such a way that many people do not choose to marry their dual as the intial question suggests.

    Let's imagine (because we can not actually perform) a social experiment. There are two groups of people, all single and interested in marriage.
    One group is informed and aware of socionics psychology and the other group is not. Each group will be given a selection of personality profiles along with a picture. The profiles will include their socionic type, how they describe themselves, their religion, their preferences in music, hobbies, what they are looking for in a partner, etc. Each individual will be asked to select their interest in dating such a person based on their personality profile.

    The results of the experiment showed that the group who were informed and aware of socionics psychology were 35% more likely to choose potential partners who matched their dual type. The group who were not aware of socionics did not show a discernable pattern that indicated selections corresponding with socionics theory.

    Now the interesting point of this thought experiment is that if socionics was the ultimate deciding factor then ideally both groups would have chosen their dual partners regardless of whether or not they knew about socionics psychology. In all honesty, wouldn't you love to see an experiment done in such a way that actually proves or disproves the claim to socionics. They access the information of a dating website and identify a portion of the online profiles socionics type. Then see how many duals actually seek each other out and go on to marry. Experimentation would convince me much more than theorical argumentation.

    That is something peculair about socionics psychology. It is describing a natural occurance. However, the fact remains many people marry someone other than their dual. Which implies free choice is unnatural according to socionics psychology. So perhaps that answers your question to some small degree. People do not always marry their duals because they can and they are free to do so. Freedom is a kind of ignorance. Ignorance of what will happen in the future and ignorance of what is morally right or wrong.

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    Because duality is not natural.

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