Sacred Guarding vs Shared but Boundaried?

[anndelise]

I see no area in this post outlined to not name the dichotomy, and many people have expressed confusion in the chatbox/the thread. So if you want discussion of the concept, its benefical to name the concept.

Thats why i stated of course its going to be named. I recognized the exact terms and knew it was a reinin dichotomy, as other people would too. Concepts can be discussed without the labeling on the concept, but from a third party perspective i see how naming the term will add to the discussion, as more people will understand what you're asking. And thats seemingly what you want, to gain more discussion. Hence, the benefit to naming it.

mostly I prefer to try to bypass the people who, instead of reading or thinking about something, see the terms, know which types belongs to which term, and then state "i'm [type1], so I do [label1]". Or "i think you're [type2], [type2] does [label2] so you must be doing [label2], so thats why we cant understand each other".

Also, if there's confusion when referring to the descriptions without the label, then there's most likely something wrong with the description (yes, that includes my efforts). I would rather use real world language and examples if possible.


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From another post:

Yeah i would have never guessed a chair(or belonging) would constitute as a Resource(from post above). So clearer definitions of what seperate these two ideas would help.

What would you consider to be an "available resource"? (In an age without internet, because I think having access to internet can seriously alter how this dichotomy plays out.)

(I'm not attacking, just asking for more info. If I know what other people think of when they read "available resource", then I'll have a better idea of what to change in my phrases.)
Also, please see post #32 where I respond to Refi's request on defining resource and interests/pursuits. I am open to changing my words/phrases.

[anndelise]

I will reference (Defer?) this post, but can you state your question in clearer terms? I see all the framework to the question in this post, but the question itself is harder to grasp what you want answered.

The terms are from the wikisocion: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._.7C_Obstinate

Key concepts of this dichotomy are "personal space", "resources" (what we have available at our disposal) and "personal interests" (what is meant here are not personal interests, but pursuits we find interesting and feel personal responsibility and attachment to). "Personal space" is something that an individual feels is an integral part of himself or herself, cannot renounce it, and will defend it from impositions and intrusions from outside. For the [X] types, this space is occupied by their resources, while for the [Y] types—by their interests. Correspondingly, [X] types manipulate interests (freely change them, adjust them in accordance with their resources) and [Y]—their resources (they adjust them to their interests).

So, we have
"personal space" = something that an individual feels is an integral part of himself or herself, cannot renounce it, and will defend it from impositions and intrusions from outside.
"resources" (what we have available at our disposal)
"personal interests" (what is meant here are not personal interests, but pursuits we find interesting and feel personal responsibility and attachment to)

Which one makes you think of boundaries, of clear delineations between mine and yours?
a) to defend [something] from impositions and intrusions from outside
b) to freely change [something1] and adjust them in accordance to [something else]

[Pookie]

The terms are from the wikisocion: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._.7C_Obstinate


So, we have
"personal space" = something that an individual feels is an integral part of himself or herself, cannot renounce it, and will defend it from impositions and intrusions from outside.
"resources" (what we have available at our disposal)
"personal interests" (what is meant here are not personal interests, but pursuits we find interesting and feel personal responsibility and attachment to)

Which one makes you think of boundaries, of clear delineations between mine and yours?
a) to defend [something] from impositions and intrusions from outside
b) to freely change [something1] and adjust them in accordance to [something else]

A) Is me focused on my boundaries. So I have to be well aware of it, as im focused on it.
B) To exchange requires knowledge of the boundaries that belong to the other. I read B) as an exchange.

[Pookie]

What would you consider to be an "available resource"? (In an age without internet, because I think having access to internet can seriously alter how this dichotomy plays out.)

(I'm not attacking, just asking for more info. If I know what other people think of when they read "available resource", then I'll have a better idea of what to change in my phrases.)
Also, please see post #32 where I respond to Refi's request on defining resource and interests/pursuits. I am open to changing my words/phrases.

I read available resources as Time/Effort/Money.

[Iris]

Say I believe ideas are sacred and that I will sharply guard my ideas/interests from intrusions. Then wouldn't this guarding signify that I am more easily aware of the boundaries between my interests vs yours?

By opposing token, if I freely share and manipulate ideas, why would i develop an awareness of the boundaries between my ideas and yours. We are sharing them, we are manipulating them, so why would we be keenly differentiating mine from yours?

Thanks for posting this. It looks like it might be helpful to me if I can understand it. **Iris peers anxiously into Anndelise's thread**

[anndelise]

A) Is me focused on my boundaries. So I have to be well aware of it, as im focused on it.
B) To exchange requires knowledge of the boundaries that belong to the other. I read B) as an exchange.

This makes sense.
I don't know why the formal descriptions use "guard" and "protect" for A,
While using "bondaries" for B.
It ALL makes me think of "boundaries".

And I was confused by different meanings of "share", which can lead to different meanings altogether.

I will go back through the wiki's info and see what changes for me.
Thank you.

[anndelise]

Thanks for posting this. It looks like it might be helpful to me if I can understand it. **Iris peers anxiously into Anndelise's thread**

Noooo, save yourself. Maybe only read the last few posts??

[anndelise]

I read available resources as Time/Effort/Money.

I include Stuff into that mix. Such as tools, books, physical items, etc.

[Pookie]

I include Stuff into that mix. Such as tools, books, physical items, etc.

With that said, I would share Resources, and Guard Ideas. Though i'm not sure how anyone wouldn't realize the boundaries of someone elses resources.

[Aylen]

I include Stuff into that mix. Such as tools, books, physical items, etc.

I had to laugh at this because I am so very protective over books. I mean I do let people borrow them but I admit it is sometimes, grudgingly because I always seem to get them back in terrible condition. People fold pages and pencil mark my books and I see this as total disrespect of my books. I also have this thing where I want people to wash their hands before reading any of my books. Sounds a bit neurotic I know but I love ALL my books and it makes me happy to see them in pristine condition. I treat them with loving care. The worst is when someone takes one of my books but doesn't let me know until later. I will look for it and get very anxious when I can't find it so I get on the phone with the possible suspects until I find the culprit.

I prefer to share pdf files when they do not contain personal information. hahah I am so picky about some things.

Edit: I just realized how many times I wrote "my books".

[anndelise]

With that said, I would share Resources, and Guard Ideas. Though i'm not sure how anyone wouldn't realize the boundaries of someone elses resources.

You havent heard the horror stories people tell of some of their roommates and/or coworkers??


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@Aylen, books ARE precious, especially reference books or those with emotional attachments.

[strangeling]

So I was having a discussion with an LIE and illegal immigration came up as part of the topic. He thought it was ignorant that people get so worked up over other people coming into the country to better themselves and find a better life, because after all, our ancestors killed the original inhabitants to claim this country as their own - we were originally illegals. Contrast this with an ESE that worries that illegals bring in diseases that go untreated and can be passed to others, as well as the fact that the people who go through the process of getting into the country legally get screwed by the illegals. I think it bothered her that a lot of illegals have violent backgrounds as well.

And so I kind of wondered if this might be related to this because the ESE seemed to be supporting that people should become legal citizens, instead of illegally entering the country, as well as guarding the idea of keeping disease away, and wanting to guard against violent people entering the country of their own accord. Whereas the LIE didn't mind illegals, seeing that the illegals are, for the most part, trying for a better life.

Not sure if you have anything to say, but since the thread seems dead, maybe it will get some discussion going again.