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Thread: Temperament Interactions

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    Default Temperament Interactions

    How do you interact with people of the various temperaments? Me:

    IJs: I tend to find it easy to see where such people are coming from when the have a certain view or act a certain way, even if I fundamentally disagree with them. This means I am able to defend them accordingly against a common foe or intruding position. I see such people as stable and controlled. If they lose their temper, it is easily fathomable: even if I do not know how to handle it, I know they will go back to essentially how they were after a somewhat predictable amount of time and ranting. In relationships (between me as an IJ and them), it can result in a lifetime of mutual shared tedium. Each individual may be essentially self-efficient and thus contained. One individual may be more practical than the other but there is an apparent lack of a strong exerting force that gives the impression that a slow managed decline is taking place.

    IPs: These individuals have certain qualities that I lack and have a somewhat different rhythm to my own which has an appeal. There is a certain supplementing vigour they give to me in the day-to-day. There is also a new appreciation for common interests we hold in common, as well as the introduction to new fields previously outside of my scope of interest. They often seem to have a certain quiet scholarly demeanour to them, or otherwise appear as some form of tranquil observer. Misunderstandings can happen, perhaps because of two not quite compatible temperaments approaching things from different ends or because each temperament has a somewhat different sense of timing (e.g. when I have a long term project in mind, I do things in a distinct order at the cost of things I consider less important, that to others may seem too out-of-step and with me too unwilling to change to certain key events). I think in the long-term, relationships with such individuals tend to burn out due to a lack of immediacy that each individual requires as a supplement.

    EPs: I tend to find them too unpredictable with little to show for it. They tend to be impulsive in the sense that they appear to do things on occasion without rhyme or reason, or at least, not in a steady or predictable way. This means at the worst, they can seem dangerous, or otherwise just inopportune. These traits can seem admirable if they demonstrate they are highly competent in whatever area, or if they are able to energetic get things done over an extended period of time. Often however, their actions can seem a little too obvious and with the subtlety of a rhinoceros. This often leads to an internal or external shrugging of shoulders and the inability to explain quite how their approach is incorrect, especially if it has worked spectacularly. They often have a way of saying things that seem utterly ill-considered and unpolished which tends to take an inordinate amount of time to deconstruct and correct, partly due to the way such conversations tend to go with them (This is probably more of an issue with extroverts in general, especially unfavourable relations: with Mirror types and individuals this is probably less the case). I think in friendships with such types, any dialogue is taking much more in earnest and the IJ and EP type perhaps consider each other a guardian angel in different spheres. In such cases, the other provides a primer on their dealings and perhaps making them more cautious or explanatory accordingly. When such friendships break up, the results can be pretty devastating however (each individual in such a case knows the former friend's process of thought and knows their weaknesses. I don't think there are many things worse than having someone align against you feeling as if they know you entirely you as a person). I think in long-term relationships with such types, being in a long-term relationship is quite telling because if two people from the two temperaments don't like each other fairly immediately, they are unlikely to ever do so. In the long-term, the two individuals are highly liable to tire of each other and drift apart, although they may end up as mere acquaintances or as hanger-ons.

    EJs: These people have a very strong zest that is immediately attractive. They are invariably proactive, or otherwise, they are likely to be reinvigorated when near an IJ. To me, they seem very majestical, almost impossible. I tend to I feel like a placeholder or anchor around them (I don't mean in the manner of St. Clement): I find it naturally easy to be fairly stable and consistently reliable, I am able to collate pieces of information and give my thoughts on various subjects. If there is any negative interaction with a newly encountered EJ, it is likely that we will both move apart almost immediately with a minimal amount of fuss and not encounter each other again (EJs seem to move on from thing to thing like that). Each of them is able to actively contribute to my own private thoughts and perhaps something interesting happens as a result, or at least we are each able to provide direction for each other.
    Last edited by Subteigh; 09-28-2014 at 12:58 PM.

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    IP > we can share a level of depth, but theirs is like quicksand..? They're fickle and usually our interaction falls into 2 patterns. I either find them too weak, passive and indifferent to stuff happening in the real world and our "friendship" fades away or simply becomes only a matter of socializing (I think I cannot trust them enough for anything more than chatting etc.), or I find them spontaneous and fun, but too self-centred and potentially assholish in a passive-aggressive way (it's as if they'll always put their own momentary comfort or rather limited agenda above other things).

    IJ > Boring. Too predictable. I must immediately change them for something more hectic.
    Seriously.
    Ok. Stiff, rigid, if Ti base : intelligent and mysterious, but cold and selfish. If Fi, it depends basically on how much we share on a deeper level or what kind of experiences we've had. Some of my most memorable connections have been with Fi base, but I've also met others with whom I knew there are not many resources to build on. Ijs can be among the most vindictive and many don't see it coming because they can act as if nothing is changing when it actually has already radically changed, but it looks like their frames shift more abruptly. Demanding, but I wouldn't want it any other way. Often not properly understood by others, their "dependence" on kind of fixed principles /internal guidelines can look like selfishness or maybe surreal stuff.

    EP > chaotic and unreliable. I feel we can connect once in a while, but to me it looks like they don't walk the talk. Manipulative and unpredictable. Otherwise quite charismatic as a rule, can enjoy tremendous popularity and they're cool to have as allies, because they can be smooth operators and nicely support a common cause. In "friendship", I can only cope with the random rhythm they have and probably need if we see each other very seldom and enjoy the ride when we do. But by that time I've already lost trust in them.

    EJ > tough and strict, need predictability and reliability in a more than reasonable way, but are rather dependent on outer factors. Very ambitious and superbly goal-oriented, can mobilize people fast and well. I don't have much experience with Fe-EJs in close relationships, but from a distance they often seem high achievers. All a bit cold and maybe dry on a personal (inner) level when you get to know them better, although they usually have pretty elaborate and convincing public personas.
    Last edited by Amber; 09-28-2014 at 07:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    How do you interact with people of the various temperaments?
    Are you tell about MBTI-temperaments only or classical four temperaments also?

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    In relation to the four Socionics types for each temperament...the distinction probably isn't hugely important

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    IJs: I am generally able to predict how they will react to specific events and how they will behave in the near future, this is something very useful and I am generally very grateful to them for ther quality. I am happy to provide my energy in return. Some of them can provide very useful insights when it comes to being aligned with one's own personal values. I am always open to their suggestions in terms of energy modulation, even though sometimes they can seem self-interested in this regard (i.e. spend less energy on that so you can have more energy for me). Some IJs - those that I type as having a very "strong" extroverted function, be it Se or Ne - can be very pushy and demanding towards people of my personality (I am unable to deflect direct attacks, I always reply with full force, thus if I disagree with their opinions they can get "riled up"), in that case I may try to moderate them at first, then eventually try to disappear from their radar if my efforts are not effective.

    IPs: superficially similar to many IJs, I generally try to listen to them when it comes to "energy" matters, since they seem to be extremely effective at maximizing their result / effort ratio. Overall I can't use their methods, but it's good to keep it in mind. Often very worldy wise without having actually experienced much, their conclusions surprise me. In closer relationships, I cannot understand how they make decisions - I often feel like there is no rationale behind those, and perhaps there isnt' - and I can find their evasiveness intolerabile, although that's more true for INxp types. They are pretty good at avoiding confrontation and that's a trait I strongly admire and I try to learn from them.

    EJs: I generally understand where they're coming from with their life outlook, even though I may find their specific goals potentially unfruitful. If we are working together towards a common goal and we strictly define our roles, we can be a very effective and energetic team (albeit wasteful in terms of energy). However, most of the time, neither of the two will be happy with a subordinate position so we will end up overlapping each other's social roles and eventually being slightly resentful about it. If two EJs think they should be the "boss", you can be pretty sure that sooner or later a fight will ensue.

    EPs: they can be great companions in social matters, I find their flexibility, willingness to get things done and ability to get to know people very quickly very refreshing. I would generally not trust them with longer term plans, but I've often been mistaken with this impression, they can be supremely consistent if the needs arises. Overall I find them very effective but slightly too dependant on external circumstances, my brain works differently so we can't always cooperate effectively. Or life outlook can be very similar, but the methods we use to reach our goals are generally very, very different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    In relation to the four Socionics types for each temperament...the distinction probably isn't hugely important
    There are many distinctions between MBTI-temperaments and classic temperaments. Socionics is not MBTI. A connection between socionics types and classic temperaments is:

    Sensing-Thinking types – phlegmatic
    Intuition-Thinking types – melancholic
    Sensing-Feeling types – sanguine
    Intuition-Feeling types – choleric

    So, you can see this four temperaments doesn’t depend on extraversion - introversion and judging-perception dichotomy in contrast with MBTI-temperaments.

    I had observed all four classic temperaments in reality and I will write about it later.

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    Noted.

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    (bump)
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    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    This is an interesting question, because the temperaments actually do correspond to groups of relationships. It may be a bit hard to put down exactly what characterizes them, but I'll give it a shot.

    IJ: I find it difficult or awkward to interact with them, especially one-on-on. It feels "too intimate", like going on a private hike with some sibling you've been estranged with for years. We very often make strong judgments about the same things, but come to different conclusions. Some identicals do come to the same conclusions, but in that case the question is why do they need to contribute in the first place? These may be the relationships with the least "glue" to keep them together (the IJ-IP interaction is more interesting). I have rarely had relationships with people of this type that were just for friendship/companionship. However, I find that we can connect through our relationships with (and also views of) other people, which tend to share some similarities. This relationship can improve immensely in the presence of a third type of a different temperament (doesn't really matter which one, actually) or in group settings.

    EJ: They are pleasantly predictable - I know what to expect from the general format of their behavior, but at the same time the ever-changing content of what they are doing keeps me on my toes. It's a good balance. I usually let them take a leadership role and sort of step back into an "advisor" role, giving input when I feel it's necessary. They provide a source of momentum, which is welcome because I tend to create a lot of empty space/time for that. I find this is the most intriguing type of relationship, there is often an inexplicable attraction even with Extinguishers (which rarely fulfills its initial promise). It's easy to both understand where the other person is coming from, as well as give input that they might not have considered themselves (or at least haven't sufficiently emphasized - with leads they tend to ignore it though).

    IP: Their behavior and thought process often baffles me; I don't really understand the reasons behind what they do (if they even exist ). I find them to be sometimes unreliable, but also accepting and good friends - in fact, many of my closest friends and relationships have been this type. Their lack of predictability is both interesting and frustrating. They probably have the best sense of humor in the socion

    EP: With this one, I get why they do what they do - I just disagree with why they do it, often completely. Their priorities seem to be skewed. Many of them expend lots of energy on stuff that is of questionable value, either to themselves or others. (This can mean in terms of import, effectiveness, or morality - often one of these may be present but another will be lacking.) In general it seems like they don't fully think things through before doing them -- but are also very good at rationalizing their impulses to themselves. They are also completely incorrigible - they will rarely listen to anything I say (even though they often seem to solicit my input!). On a more positive note, they are probably the most exciting type of relationship (a kind of excitement that is better in small doses). When they take the initiative I usually end up going along for the ride - until I feel like it's time to get back to my own priorities. These are very "talky" relationships - it's easier to get into an conversation or debate than it is to work together, since our priorities are so different.
    Last edited by thehotelambush; 05-22-2016 at 05:56 PM.

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    Didn't read the thread before I posted but I see now that @Subteigh's observations and mine were pretty close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    ...In general it seems like they don't fully think things through before doing them ...
    This sounds like a value judgement, a negative one in particular. Or have I misread you?
    The future of Socionics:
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    IJ: I like every IJ type more than their EP equivalent. It feels like the static ego elements come into clearer focus when you flip from EP to IJs. They can be pigheaded like EPs due to Ti/Fi, but I often find them to be quite helpful people. I can't quite describe the happiness that comes with having an IJ just providing solid, competent help without dragging their heels about it. The consistency in their values is respectable and something I find myself trying to inject into my own character over time. All said and done, I've had some pretty colossal arguments with IJs, though it never seems to come to blows. Maybe because the frustration doesn't build up as easily.

    IP: ILIs are the IP type I communicate with most. My experience outside of ILIs is that I can share incredible amounts of interests with IP types and find that this has absolutely no bearing on our ability to find rapport, which is generally low to begin with and hard to build on. They can be surprisingly good at making people feel stupid without saying anything at all. Maybe due to that sort of scholarly demeanour that Subteigh mentioned. They seem to be more philosophically inclined on average compared to the other temperaments.

    EJ: I've learned to keep a respectful distance from other EJs and tried not to let them get in my way nor mine theirs, unless we should need to team up and get something done, in which case, it's done with only slightly less ease than with an IJ, due to having some initial minor disagreements when planning stuff that slows things down very slightly. EJs often seem to have a sort of choleric energy, even if it's just slightly. Quite pushy, even in cases of shy/reserved EJs. It has some way of coming out. I understand that this can be extremely stressful on the other three temperaments. I think there's a limit to how many EJs are necessary/desirable in a situation. My experience is that they work best mostly around introverts and being around say, 3 or more EJs has a way of being a bit much and usually a few of them end up shifting towards a more reserved version of themselves as opposed to the more gregarious version that comes out around introverts.

    EP: I find EPs almost completely unreliable in both a short-term and long-term sense. As a rule, I don't rely on them for anything and keep them away from being pivotal players in plans I make, similar to how you wouldn't expect to hold a brick up with a small handful of toothpicks. There are exceptions, but they slowly reveal themselves over a longer period of time. I am able to predict their behaviour when I look at situations and plans from the most selfish perspective and assume they will take the course of action that follows from that, and for the most part, this is adequate. I consider them to be the most socially superior temperament. Gift of the gab and generally the longer I'm around them, the more my resources seem to deplete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    This sounds like a value judgement, a negative one in particular. Or have I misread you?
    Well, I was ranting a bit there. I think it is accurate though.

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    IP: I get on well with Ni doms online but there are none in my real life. Si doms are pretty boring and I clash with ISTps sometimes but otherwise they don't interfere with anything so they're ok. I'm turned off by their sluggishness, because it's not easy to get them to go along with things.

    IJ: They work hard, but most of them aren't rigid like descriptions and people make them out to be. They seem that way before they open up, from a distance, but they can surprise me at times. And their "rigidness" is relaxing, unlike the EJ's.

    EP: Most of my friends are EP because they're fun, unconventional, and accepting. Some of them are hard to trust, though. Ironically, it's more of my Fi creative friends that are flakier, even though ExTps are "supposed" to be assholes (Don't get me wrong, a lot of them are douches.)

    EJ: I don't know enough of them and the ones I do are way older than me, and all the Si creative kind and I clash with Si like I said. I find that we're both very stubborn with what we want and we argue or disagree because of this. I hate it when they try to change my personal plans. I understand why they often want to direct things, but I feel like they don't do it right. Actually, I do know an ENTj and I love talking with her. She can help organize me a bit, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Well, I was ranting a bit there. I think it is accurate though.
    Hasn't Socionics tought you that EPs do something else instead that might be very valuable, under some circumstances way more valuable than thinking things through first? ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Hasn't Socionics tought you that EPs do something else instead that might be very valuable, under some circumstances way more valuable than thinking things through first? ;-)
    Such as?

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    I wish I could divine these patterns of how I interact with different types. I'm fairly certain now that I can strike EII off the list of possible types for myself.

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    @consentingadult in all seriousness though, sure, a lot of the time you don't have a clear-cut way to make evaluations about things. This is when going into "EP mode" is handy, because it breaks you out of whatever pattern or self-deluded theory about reality you might have fallen into. Then you need to go by your gut.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncivilized View Post
    I wish I could divine these patterns of how I interact with different types. I'm fairly certain now that I can strike EII off the list of possible types for myself.
    This is more of an experimental exercise; temperament relationships aren't really that clear, it's better to look at quadra values.

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