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Thread: IQ and Functions

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    Default IQ and Functions

    This isn't a thread about which types have the highest IQ, rather, I wonder what happens to the functions as IQ increases. Do you become more like the stereotype of your type? Maybe the weak functions become stronger? Or maybe the type has no change? I really don't know because I could see it going a number of directions. I think this question is virtually incapable of receiving a real answer, but I wonder what theories or ideas do you all have on this? Maybe you have examples of extremely intelligent people you've typed?

    EDIT: I suppose I'm not just talking about functions here but also external symptoms shared among high iq individuals. I just imagine that has functional implications.
    Last edited by Contra; 09-14-2014 at 08:16 AM.

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    I'd like to think that intelligence is not type related as it's extremely simplistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    This isn't a thread about which types have the highest IQ, rather, I wonder what happens to the functions as IQ increases. Do you become more like the stereotype of your type? Maybe the weak functions become stronger? Or maybe the type has no change? I really don't know because I could see it going a number of directions. I think this question is virtually incapable of receiving a real answer, but I wonder what theories or ideas do you all have on this? Maybe you have examples of extremely intelligent people you've typed?
    You could first consider if functions have a bearing on intelligence, but then you have to define intelligence, which will probably be IQ to make your definition easier. Then you may try to extrapolate some functions onto IQ tests eg Ti to see the logic behind the options and perhaps Ne to see the 'patterns' or some glib rendition of the function. Then after all that you realise it don't matter

    It's kinda like the genius pianist who gives it all up for a life of hedonism then children, it's what you do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I have some sick high IQ, but it doesn't seem to do me much good, as I seem to constantly seek out too difficult real life situations to put myself in. I wonder if the simple life bores me, and I need more impossible situations than others. Mission impossible - again. I would guess it is Se-related, and I would guess any high IQ person would seek higher challenges in their strong areas, so smart ILIs would space out even more and smart SEIs would chill even better. I think I'd want to be an IP the next life I'm smart in.

    Alternatively, I need an equally smart Ni-base around to put my need for speed into better use and warn me about the extreme lack of Ni I seem to have, but arrogantly ignore, since I think I'm so smart.
    Be careful with this, no one 'needs' anything. Especially socionics, otherwise we'd all be fucking up everywhere and dead by now. If anything what you like is a second opinion sometimes, seeking council. Maybe the gift of hindsight which anyone could ask for. You don't 'need'!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Be careful with this, no one 'needs' anything. Especially socionics, otherwise we'd all be fucking up everywhere and dead by now. If anything what you like is a second opinion sometimes, seeking council. Maybe the gift of hindsight which anyone could ask for. You don't 'need'!
    you ruined my post by missing the point

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    That's a tricky question, and I'm not sure if an accurate pattern could be stablished. You can become more "intelligent" (assuming common meaning and not going deeper in the question) by improving your ego functions, which makes you more skilled in your original way of reasoning. In such case, you would look like more as the stereotype.

    But you can also learn to correct your original bad inclinations (cognitive faults which are more likely to happen in a particular type) by developing superego functions (to a certain degree) and particularly, id functions. In such case the original type becomes more blurry and less easy for being identified.

    I think the improving ego method is probably easier and therefore more common, but it also has more limitations. There is certain point you cannot surpass in this way, as an expansion of the original POV is required. So in general, I think extremely intelligent people has probably a well developed id. The consequence of this is that you move away from a very particular stereotype, but you can also sink a a more broad one (quasis? mirror?).

    This is pure speculation anyway.

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    OP must like bias opinions? Hmmm.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    OP must like bias opinions? Hmmm.
    Are opinions less biased if they are presented as not being biased?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Are opinions less biased if they are presented as not being biased?
    I don't have an opinion I'm aware of unless you have some studies to present I haven't read? IQ AND Socionics? Think about it.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I don't have an opinion I'm aware of unless you have some studies to present I haven't read? IQ AND Socionics? Think about it.
    I think you voiced a clear opinion about the preferences of the OP in your previous post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think you voiced a clear opinion about the preferences of the OP in your previous post.
    Do you know what the definition of opinion is?

    OR hence "?"
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Do you know what the definition of opinion is?

    OR hence "?"
    Clever. But I could say something similar about your answer to my question to you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Are opinions less biased if they are presented as not being biased?
    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I don't have an opinion I'm aware of (...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    you ruined my post by missing the point
    I'm slow on the uptake today

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Clever. But I could say the same about my question to you:
    irrelevant. And no, you can't. I was being facetious.

    Errrr... Can I ask you an opinion?
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    irrelevant. And no, you can't. I was being facetious.

    Errrr... Can I ask you an opinion?
    you can ask

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    I see this question as an unsolvable equation cuz variables are impossible to determine properly (we are unaware of the possible factors that influence the iq growth factor - intelligence may as well be exponentially asymmetric in growth) so we can only hypothesize. the way i see it is acc to Gardner there are 9 types of intelligence and we can loosely correlate them with 9 ego fxn combinations i.e mathematical intelligence ti+se (causal determinist-deductive axiomatic), interpersonal intelligence se+fi (logics of interpersonal relations), kinesthetic se+ti (the capacity to manipulate objects and use a variety of physical skills) etc. having that in mind we can extrapolate that measurable intelligence manifests as the strength of the ego block fxns so following that premise rise in iq would correlate to the intensification of the ego block functions if we assume that iq growth is symmetrical (regular, uniform). but, since all fxns are interconnected they all inherently influence and stimulate other fxns (asymmetry of cog fxns development) so often highly intelligent individual has more than one highly developed type of intelligence which leads us to conclusion that not all ti+se doms are neccesarily mathematicians (sometimes ti+se can manifest as linguistic intelligence (in the form of metatextual analysis of semantical-syntactic structure of discourse), not all ti+ne doms are philosophers etc...not the mention various external/internal factors that directly influence iq levels and affect the development of cog. fxns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    you can ask
    Thank you. I appreciate it.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Thank you. I appreciate it.
    you are welcome

    always nice to have an understanding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    you are welcome

    always nice to have an understanding
    Indeed. Almost as nice as manipulating the english language and laughing about it.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    I have a family member (IEI) with a genius level IQ (professionally tested) and I have noticed a similarity in him to people of different types with very high IQ. They all tend to lack some kind of common sense and street smarts. At least when they are still young. Maybe when he gets older it will kick in. At first we thought he was some kind of rapid learner (he was using a computer at 18 months old and could clearly express his emotional states without crying) but as he grew it was clear that he is good at everything he does. He is deeply introspective, introverted (shy too) AND a people person. People come to him for advice on absolutely everything. His writing and perspective on life is best understood by Ni but others will take a shot at interpreting his meaning. A lot fail to grasp it.

    He was home-schooled, until 6th grade, yet was offered a scholarship to Princeton (in 9th grade) that he didn't accept because he wanted to experience more out of life. He felt pressure I'm sure to be the best at everything, which sucks, when people have such high expectations. I realize those high expectations from others might be serving him well though. I am positive he is an IEI but I wondered if he was ILI because he is very logical and irreverent (sometimes). He probably uses Fi and Ti more than most IEI.

    IQ doesn't seem to effect his Se though. He still needs external motivation so if someone really wants him to do something he will. Left to his own devices I wonder what he would have done with any of it. Would probably still be in a basement listening to "down in a hole" by Alice in Chains, instead of attending a university in New England. I showed him info on socionics the other day. It took him a couple of minutes to tell me he is IEI (I showed him several types, that he quickly scanned) then he started explaining the flaws in the descriptions of the intertype relations. He said he would get back to me on the rest of it when he gets a break from school. He also said he had no interest in placing labels on his own friends because he knows how they interact already. He sees their weak areas and tries to help them out in those areas and he knows when others hit his weak areas and how he responds. He is pretty self-aware for someone who lacks common sense.

    I think his Ni and Fe are off the charts sometimes. He has high anxiety, but it is more from an empathic connection with others, unfortunately. I am also thinking he is 479 so/sx. He seems to be into the vampire culture, which happens to run in the family, magic, anime and ugh, he is into my little pony. When I asked him why he said it was simply an escape.

    Oh and he has an ability to see people's auras since he was like 2 years old. <3
    Last edited by Aylen; 09-14-2014 at 05:55 PM. Reason: update tritype after consideration

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    so smart ILIs would space out even more and smart SEIs would chill even better. I think I'd want to be an IP the next life I'm smart in.


    (full disclosure: all that smart-chillin' really just leads to a feeling of psychological unrest.)

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    I would expect as you get smarter, you begin to appear more like whatever types a person has associated with high intelligence. I think it's interesting that there's currently a 60-30 split between LII and SEI on WSS for my type, with LII being driven by my apparent intellectualism. (Disclosure: when I was 18, my VIQ tested >135, so of course I have a compulsive intellectual life; I couldn't stop thinking, wondering, and rapidly learning if I wanted to.)

    Hypothetically, if you like IQ and the idea of investment (high logical ability -> high crystallised intelligence), and you like the idea of function dimensionality, I would imagine that higher intelligence would make people express ideas and behaviours out of type due to highly developed and sophisticated skills and bodies of knowledge in their Role and Mobilizing. I could easily conceive of a similar pattern being seen in any case where an individual has an unusually high ability to comprehend and remember information, if you want to escape from statistical IQ.

    scribbles in the dark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You could first consider if functions have a bearing on intelligence, but then you have to define intelligence, which will probably be IQ to make your definition easier. Then you may try to extrapolate some functions onto IQ tests eg Ti to see the logic behind the options and perhaps Ne to see the 'patterns' or some glib rendition of the function. Then after all that you realise it don't matter

    It's kinda like the genius pianist who gives it all up for a life of hedonism then children, it's what you do with it.
    Well, I'm not really wondering if any functions lend themselves to a higher IQ. They might, but that would probably speak to greater flaws with the system of IQ considering it would just allow certain types to flex their strong, valued functions. Who knows though, maybe IQ tests are biased to certain types based on functions. I find it likely that LIIs probably have higher IQs on average than most people (and that might go for all NTs) but I feel that it would be extremely hard to tease out what's due to functional strength compared to what's due to just intellectual nourishment through life. I've never actually taken an IQ test so I couldn't say if the cognitive skills tested for are broad enough so as to not be biased to certain types.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I have some sick high IQ, but it doesn't seem to do me much good, as I seem to constantly seek out too difficult real life situations to put myself in. I wonder if the simple life bores me, and I need more impossible situations than others. Mission impossible - again. I would guess it is Se-related, and I would guess any high IQ person would seek higher challenges in their strong areas, so smart ILIs would space out even more and smart SEIs would chill even better. I think I'd want to be an IP the next life I'm smart in.

    Alternatively, I need an equally smart Ni-base around to put my need for speed into better use and warn me about the extreme lack of Ni I seem to have, but arrogantly ignore, since I think I'm so smart.
    This is sort of what I expect. One thing I've noticed is that the smartest LIIs seem to fit the socionics description especially well. They seem even more characterized by Ti and even more stunted by their weak functions. I think this could probably go for many high IQ individuals but not necessarily all. If one were to look at more successful individuals one would probably expect to find a lot of logical sensors with higher than average IQs and I think the same goes for them as it does with super intelligent LIIs. I think they tend to conform to their type's stereotype more often. This would sort of make sense considering the socionics descriptions sort of treat types as if they have super powers when the average person should seem... well... remarkably average.

    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    OP must like bias opinions? Hmmm.
    I LOVE biased opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holon View Post
    I would expect as you get smarter, you begin to appear more like whatever types a person has associated with high intelligence.
    Hah well that's a reasonable expectation. Probably the best answer I could hope to expect in this thread also.... or at least the most certain.

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