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Thread: ILEs and Fe hidden agenda

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    yeves's Avatar
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    Default ILEs and Fe hidden agenda

    what do you think of your Fe "hidden agenda"? how do you experience it? there are so many different descriptions of Fe HA on this forum that your input would be appreciated regarding which ones are closest to your experience.

    one thread mentioned that hidden agenda develops later in life, after the first quarter is over (25+). did you find this to be so? was there an age when you became more concerned with Fe?

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    I tend to reject things like timelines in so much as just as a lot of other common timelines drawn in nontypology stuff is just a guideline so is it here.

    I think an intuitive lead can, especially if intuitive subtype, be more balanced than one might think between seeking creative/HA, just that the creative is more tied to the base agenda, where HA is more just an energizing agent than one about seeking understanding/accumulating info.

    I think of it as the HA is the hidden rationally oriented extravert in the irrationally oriented extravert. Where the creative ends up being paired with the irrational program, the HA might be called the hidden rational program.

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I tend to reject things like timelines in so much as just as a lot of other common timelines drawn in nontypology stuff is just a guideline so is it here.

    I think an intuitive lead can, especially if intuitive subtype, be more balanced than one might think between seeking creative/HA, just that the creative is more tied to the base agenda, where HA is more just an energizing agent than one about seeking understanding/accumulating info.

    I think of it as the HA is the hidden rationally oriented extravert in the irrationally oriented extravert. Where the creative ends up being paired with the irrational program, the HA might be called the hidden rational program.
    u r ILE?

    y iz everything you write... so hard to understand (for me) ;____;

    u sure u r not LII... or ILI...

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    I don't think I'm ILE, just answering the question!

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    I joke a lot and try to have as much fun as possible instead of doing anything, but if I get to crazy it sucks and gets awkward Also smilies in all my text.... duh.

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    yeves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I tend to reject things like timelines in so much as just as a lot of other common timelines drawn in nontypology stuff is just a guideline so is it here.
    What do timelines have to do with Fe hidden agenda?

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    I meant what age does what to a information element and that sort of stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    what do you think of your Fe "hidden agenda"? how do you experience it? there are so many different descriptions of Fe HA on this forum that your input would be appreciated regarding which ones are closest to your experience.

    one thread mentioned that hidden agenda develops later in life, after the first quarter is over (25+). did you find this to be so? was there an age when you became more concerned with Fe?
    well a lot of XLEs, being both Fi-PoLR and irrational, have antisocial tendencies. Basically we're big sociopathic assholes who go around telling everyone the truth "as we see it" (Ti) with little regard for political correctness, sympathy. morals, etc. There's a tension though, because we want to be able to say the "truth as we see it" while generally being in an environment which is emotionally congruent to us. Basically, we want to be able to share our "hard truths" while not being lynched for it.

    Fe, being an external function, is not really something you control per se. It's the extroverted function (besides perhaps Ne) that we think of the least as being "objective" due to semantic overlap, but it is objective in some sense. When everyone in a room is laughing at a joke, the emotional expression is being made manifest in physical reality. It's not the kind of solipsism you see with Fi, where things can be construed as hurtful to me. Either the joke was funny, and the people laughed, or it wasn't, and they didn't. The music is upbeat, so the people are dancing in an upbeat way in response. There's a somber mood at this funeral. Etc. It's a bit like wanting to be a room where the temperature is comfortable.

    Granted, if I am ILE, I am a weird ILE, in that I like loud music and fast cars and other seemingly Se stuff and can make aesthetic valuations which seems decidedly un-Fi-PolR. But I don't put a whole lot of faith in the system anymore, and the ILE "tireless debater" stereotype is the one that fits me the best, so I'll just roll with it for the sake of argument. I can't comment on what happens with Fe-HA after 25 because I am too young, but I can say the desire to be liked has been with me at least ever since I started making snarky jokes and derailing classes for group benefit at say, 14 or so.
    Last edited by Whoobie77; 09-13-2014 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I meant what age does what to a information element and that sort of stuff.
    You really make no sense.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemical View Post
    I tend to reject things like timelines in so much as just as a lot of other common timelines drawn in nontypology stuff is just a guideline so is it here.

    I think an intuitive lead can, especially if intuitive subtype, be more balanced than one might think between seeking creative/HA, just that the creative is more tied to the base agenda, where HA is more just an energizing agent than one about seeking understanding/accumulating info.

    I think of it as the HA is the hidden rationally oriented extravert in the irrationally oriented extravert. Where the creative ends up being paired with the irrational program, the HA might be called the hidden rational program.
    I think I'm probably only person that understood this lol.

    Anyways, HA is kind of overrated but it's there but knowing soconics kinda of opens up the perception. Ganin only gave a positive spin on it but it's kinda of in-discriminant, people can be receptive to negative aspects of their HA as well as positive aspects. Most people might only be honest to themselves about their HA once they're older unless they learn socionics as it's kinda of a agenda people might not want to admit to themselves initially.

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    Well, it is easy to tell from how Fi base see it as utterly unusable until proven wrong.
    Occasional goofy switch from another universe or just being calm otherwise and almost never seen as boiling from inside like you can see it from xLIs at times as worst counter example. As I saw it somewhere: undifferentiated feeling meaning no one should experience caustic feelings towards each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    well a lot of XLEs, being both Fi-PoLR and irrational, have antisocial tendencies. Basically we're big sociopathic assholes who go around telling everyone the truth "as we see it" (Ti) with little regard for political correctness, sympathy. morals, etc. There's a tension though, because we want to be able to say the "truth as we see it" while generally being in an environment which is emotionally congruent to us. Basically, we want to be able to share our "hard truths" while not being lynched for it.

    Fe, being an external function, is not really something you control per se. It's the extroverted function (besides perhaps Ne) that we think of the least as being "objective" due to semantic overlap, but it is objective in some sense. When everyone in a room is laughing at a joke, the emotional expression is being made manifest in physical reality. It's not the kind of solipsism you see with Fi, where things can be construed as hurtful to me. Either the joke was funny, and the people laughed, or it wasn't, and they didn't. The music is upbeat, so the people are dancing in an upbeat way in response. There's a somber mood at this funeral. Etc. It's a bit like wanting to be a room where the temperature is comfortable.

    Granted, if I am ILE, I am a weird ILE, in that I like loud music and fast cars and other seemingly Se stuff and can make aesthetic valuations which seems decidedly un-Fi-PolR. But I don't put a whole lot of faith in the system anymore, and the ILE "tireless debater" stereotype is the one that fits me the best, so I'll just roll with it for the sake of argument. I can't comment on what happens with Fe-HA after 25 because I am too young, but I can say the desire to be liked has been with me at least ever since I started making snarky jokes and derailing classes for group benefit at say, 14 or so.
    I'm exactly the same. Exactly. Struggle with "the truth" vs "your feelings". I'm an excellent comedian, most who know me say I'm the funniest person they've ever met. I refuse to "make a podcast" or YouTube videos at their demands. I love really loud music (thx system at home + car audio + the best earbuds) and drive my WRX really fast/fun. I've really ramped up my Fe as a comedian to offset how much of an ass I can be when debating others or correcting flaws. As such, most people can't figure me out or understand me.
    Socionics: T-ILE / ENTP
    Enneagram: 7w8/8w7/3w2 Tri-type (sp/sx instinctual) However, other tests indicated 8w7 sx/sp alone. Not big on enneagram.


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    They say I would make excellent clown. Clown academy has been suggested but they took it back based on the reason that I don't need it.

    I have poor balance and walk as I'm not fully there. I bump into things quite often. This alone makes me funny and then there is my mouth filled with Fi PoLR goodness among other odd stuff which is not always ment to be comical. People have sometimes hard time at perceiving my seriously. They are also baffled how I manage to live my life. Thank god for those caregivers. LSI for example couldn't fathom why I partially coloured my eye glass lenses with permanent (accident) pen. It was an experiment to see when spots starts to interfere your vision.

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    Fe hidden agenda for me is a deep need to be accepted and to see that I'm being accepted. That people are sincerely smiling, laughing, telling me I'm (insert some positive characteristic). When those outward expressions don't match an individuals true feelings (or what they'll base whether they want a friendship, relationship, etc. on) I can be completely blindsided and truly hurt. Growing up (elementary school-high school) I was often a sucker for trying to get people to express positive emotions towards me and would really never understand why someone else wouldn't express positive emotions towards me. Now I'm much more ok with others not liking me, but still feel a deep need to have at least some people truly like me.

    Just like people with a Te hidden agenda appreciate "honest" expressed intellectual information, I appreciate honest "emotional" information. So like with humor a lot of Alpha comedians will say things that just aren't true but that one needs Ti to get. For me if someone does that with feelings (they outwardly express positive feelings towards me but internally hate me or want to manipulate me) I get thrown for a bad loop. As long as people are happy around me, and that that happiness is real and legitimate I'm happy. Sure the expressed emotion can be a little bit stronger than the (Fi) connection is, but if it's completely off I get deeply troubled and start questioning my relationships (all of them) more than I should.
    Suomea

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    I actually have very good mobile skills, just I'm not always paying attention to shit. Possible ILE, just looked into stuff today.

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