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Thread: Visionaries and Socionics Information Elements

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    yeves's Avatar
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    Default Visionaries and Socionics Information Elements

    I've read on this board that being "visionary" is a trait of Ni types. A few questions about this explanation:

    - what is being a "visionary"? what qualities does this entail? whom would you describe as such (any well-known people that come to your mind)?

    - how is being "visionary" related to information elements? do you think this is resigned only to Ni types? or do Si-Ne types have a vision of their own? if so, what do you think is the difference between their visions?

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    At a quick glance, visionary is defined as a person with original ideas about what the future will or could be like.

    Ni is typically understood to be an implicit information element that pertains to time, not necessarily in a concrete sense of 'what time is it now', but more along the lines of taking information from the past and present and having it swirl around. I imagine that information then gets mixed with the rational element in the pair (so Te or Fe) and that can be used to extrapolate the trends. I'm not sure whether predicting future actions based on the past utilises the rational element, but it seems to be the case in my experience.

    Mentally, Ni filtered through Te looks a bit like:

    "Joe is starting to get drunk at a faster pace than usual, seems like he must have had a fair bit to drink before I arrived. He's taking a kind of prodding mean conversational tone with his girlfriend and she's displaying a particular facial expression that I'm pretty sure other people have displayed before getting quite angry and conflict beginning. Based on this information, I expect that in about 2 hours from now, they will have an argument, he'll be stubborn and she'll run off and hide."

    Of course you can have insights like that without putting them into words, but I'm so used to being forced to explain my intuitions to people (fucking GROAN) that I know how to put it into words, and at least on some level of consciousness, what information is leading me towards my intuition.

    To answer your general question, I suppose someone would use a thought process like this to predict all manners of things. But of most relevance to being a 'visionary', an understanding or empathy towards people, combined with knowing on a general level how things tend to go. This could be used to create ideas, advise people of consequences to actions, general cause and effect whether in the realm of actions or social interactions/moods.

    Ne/Si types seem more likely to have an idea of a number of things that could happen, but not what is most likely to happen. The Ne bases tend to ignore the Ni advice most of the time too, so it results in a lot of "I told you so"s and even a little bit of "maybe one day you'll actually listen to me instead of doing the absolute dumbest thing you could have done".

    I think ILIs are the best at this kind of predictive ability (and also the most cynical, which I think stops it being clouded by idealism and so on).

    My dad is ILI and doesn't flash his Ni around much, but when he does, it's usually in a situation where my intuition has tripped up and his hasn't. Otherwise I basically never see it from him.

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    brb retyping as Ti base

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    Yes, so what is a visionary? A visionary may simply be someone who has a sense of how to transform a situation to bring out something (it could be good, could be bad, someone can subjectively decide that).

    This needn't have much to do with intuition of time really, because a strong static intuition also notes the inherent potential to an objective situation. Intuition of time tends to be better when you must envision the progression dynamically, but that's really not always necessary.

    Note though that intuition need not even have much to do with being visionary. It depends - visionary in what? If ethics is paramount, why can an ethics type not be the visionary one? Determining the ideal ethics and transforming what that means could be done by copious rationalization, rather than mainly intuitive tendencies. An intuition may be needed at times, but how much rationalization and how much intuition plays in, nobody can say.

    Someone can be a visionary in art, and be an introverted sensation lead. It's just don't expect them to be engaged 99% of the time in abstract speculative activity. A lot of their time will be spent making very keen observations via sensation, and a combination of interesting observations made can suggest ways to transform how to make art.

    You would, however, probably need at least one perception and one judgment function to be much of a visionary. Without perception, your rationalizations stagnate - nothing new is uncovered. But someone who has a good sense of where to uncover the right sensory data can have a vision of change, without being too much of a speculator on a daily basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Ne/Si types seem more likely to have an idea of a number of things that could happen, but not what is most likely to happen. The Ne bases tend to ignore the Ni advice most of the time too, so it results in a lot of "I told you so"s and even a little bit of "maybe one day you'll actually listen to me instead of doing the absolute dumbest thing you could have done".
    My experience has been different. Watching a movie that just came out with an ILE friend I've heard her predict the exact thing that will happen in the next moment. It's not long running intuition that looks into the decade ahead, but short span, high precision insights that she is very confident it and often that is exactly what happens. In soconics I've read predictive quality is attributed to Ni, that seemed at odds with her behavior as ILE has Ni ignoring.

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    My experience has been different. Watching a movie that just came out with an ILE friend I've heard her predict the exact thing that will happen in the next moment. It's not long running intuition that looks into the decade ahead, but short span, high precision insights that she is very confident it and often that is exactly what happens. In soconics I've read predictive quality is attributed to Ni, that seemed at odds with her behavior as ILE has Ni ignoring.
    yuh, there's been few movies/books that I couldn't predict accurately based on the given. Sometimes i was twarted by deus ex machines (bad books/movies) sometimes they really surprised me, but usually i'm good at that type of predictions.

    I think the more a Ne person looks into the future the more options there are so the less certain they get. If you give them a kind of context (which a movie/book does) they can accurately do the predictions, if it's open world stuff they might struggle due to the enormity of complexity that will open up with looking further in time.

    disclaimer: Ofc based on faulty understanding of socionics and my own experience

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