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Thread: Albert Einstein's type (old discussions)

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    Default Albert Einstein's type (old discussions)

    I've heard people discuss it before, but I don't think there has been an offical thread for it yet, so: What was Albert Einstein's type?

    My vote goes to INTp.

    I've heard ENTp for Einstein, and I can see why some people might say that. He was a bit of a goofy, even Kramer-like, guy. But not all INTps are restrained and reserved. Believe me, my Dad's INTp. If you ask some of the INTps here they will tell you that an INTp can even be the life of the party ( ).

    If you look at Einstein, I see Ni as his dominant function. He was a big visonary guy. An inspirational dreamer. When he was a kid he was very dettached from the other kids. He wandered around alone, tryin to discover things for himself. He didn't participate in games with the other kids. Also, he was even considered retared when younger. I think it would have made more sense for someone with a heavy intuition to be thought of a "retared" back than because he was always in his head (especially if it was Ni) and misunderstood. This is another reason to consider he probably wasn't judging. Even when he was older, he kept to himself a lot. He would stay in the same clothes, not careing about what others thought of him. He was constanly toiling with his imagination. INTp, IMO.









    Last edited by silke; 08-03-2014 at 03:28 AM. Reason: updated links
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    All his achievements however were of the Ne-Ti sort; General relativity, Special Relativity, and what not; also, unlike, say, Isaac Newton(INTp), who sought to verify his ideas through experiment, after experiment, after experiment, a clear sign of his egoistic preference for Te, Einstein correlated ideas with one another, and was satisfied simply to "test" them via his "thought experiments."

    Also, like you said, he's that quirky, ENTp sort of guy.

    He also just has that "ENTp" vibe to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    Also, like you said, he's that quirky, ENTp sort of guy.

    He also just has that "ENTp" vibe to him.
    I want to hear from some INTps about this. I'm sure INTps can be quirky too. ENTPs and INTps can often act similar (just like everyone who shares the last three letters) but I want to find out the true diffrences between them.
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    INTps can be very extraverted, but I've never found the extraverted ones to be "quirky" at all.

    But you're right, let's let the INTps speak for theirselves.

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    Believe me, I wouldn't mind taking Einstein as one of my own :wink: , and I want someone to prove me wrong. But I'm just trying to be fair here, I don't see him as an ENTp. That's just me, though. If someone can conince me he's ENTp I'll take it. I think everyone would want Einstein .

    EDIT: ignore this, I'm not ENTP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    1. He singlehandedly redefined the conception of "TIME".
    Wow, you're a genius (odd for me to say to an INFp though ). Ni is "Time Intuition" and Einstein redifined the concept of TIME. Lol. I don't know why I didn't think of something so obvious myself .




    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    3. He spent alot of time sitting, thinking, and VISUALIZING different things, looking for the hidden concept that linked everything together.
    This is one of the biggest reasons why I don't think he was ENTp.


    And by the way, where did all those INTPs go?
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    "And as an extra tidbit...

    Issac Newton looks VERY MUCH like an extroverted thinking dominant (Extraverted Thinking). I think that maybe...just maybe....Newton could be ENTj."

    Newton was as solitary as one can get, there's no way he was an ENTj.

    You also forget that INTps revel in the realm of mathematics, which would go contradictory to the implication brought about by this statement if Einstein truly was ENTp:

    "Once the mathematicians invaded the theory of relativity, I ceased to understand it myself!"

    "1. He singlehandedly redefined the conception of "TIME". "

    By restructuring it in such a manner that was unjointed in a manner similar to an idea brought about by extraverted intuition, rather then the linear, "left brain"*, function of Introverted intuition. Relativity is a prime aspect of extraverted inuition, not of the inspirational, "single-mindness" and perhaps even religious, nature of introverted inuition.

    "2. He did this by SIMULATING different physical situations in his head; and determing the "results" of these thought-experiments, later on verifying them through mathematics (mathematics which he had help, and to which he admitted that he barely understood.)"

    I must concede, this does seem a lot like something an introverted intuiter would do; I need to further understand Ti and it's relationship to Ne...


    "3. He spent alot of time sitting, thinking, and VISUALIZING different things, looking for the hidden concept that linked everything together. "

    I honestly don't see how this is an aspect that an ENTp coudl possess; remember, they are the type most upset over the matter that "gold" lays hidden under the rocks and are the most fervent type in the search of the treasure.

    "4. He was a very spiritual person, and spent much time later on in his life answering questions about the spiritual and unknown aspects of the universe (in spiritual and unknown ways.)"

    He didn't believe in a personal god at all; he was a deist, which isn't really a "spiritual" stance to take at all. Also, he spent his later years trying to rectify quantum physics with a deterministic model of the universe, in such a manner that could even be called neurotic. I think this could be linked to his hidden agenda to be "loved' and the desire to come out with another breakthrough that would shock the world, as one's hidden agenda is the main cause of a "neurosis."

    "Compare this to Stephen Hawking's answers on the "spiritual" side of physics, there is more actual physics in his answers on questions of this sort. "

    Stephen Hawkings is clearly an INTj, how does this correlate to Einstein?

    "Extraverted Intution is supposed to be intuition when it is extroverted. That is, in order to be "using" it, you have to ACT on it in the outside world. Or, you have to have an inclination to develop a concept that can be acted on."

    This is false, otherwise, why aren't ENTps ever leading the revolutions or pursuing some sort of ideal? Why is it always the ENxjs?

    Also, look at this definition of the Ti subtype:

    Extractor

    Extractor is a self-profound and thoughtful person. He is attracted to ideas what have nothing to do with the reality, for example philosophy, religion, bio-energetics etc. His favourite occupation is to compare different systems of logic - he’s a typical armchair scientist. He may be awkward, he does not pay attention to his appearance, and doesn’t care about health.

    Although it is definately concerning that this has a little bit of a contradictory view of the Ti subtype:


    FINDER

    Logical subtype tries to produce the impression of serious person. It can be sharp, at times even unceremonious. It is confident in itself, he says rapidly, usually in categorical tone. It is superfluously categorical in its judgments, it has a tendency to tie by others its opinion. It sometimes seems energetic and self-confident. It is impatient and always it cannot listen collocutor to the end. He frequently is fascinated by something new, attempts to find to it practical embodiment. It actively and energetically defends its interests. In this case it can flare up and offend man, but, after noting this, he tries to correct position. It is very proud and it can be insulted because of the trifle, talk roughnesses, and it will be again affable and benevolent after a certain time. It is not predicted and contrasting in its behavior. View - first scattered, then testing, tenacious. The gait and the gestures sweeping, confident, but are badly coordinated. Poses free, flattened. It easily draws together distance, it can embrace, kiss collocutor.

    Take of it what you will, but it seems to me that the first one is more cleanly articulated.

    "How did Einstein use Extraverted Thinking you ask?

    Simple.

    He found people that were good in the high level mathematics, and enlisted thier help in formulating his theories mathematically. "

    Point in case: he was COMPENSATING for his lack of ability in mathematics, earlier stated to be a trait common to inutitive alphas, with the profiency of the mathematics of the Gammas corroborated by other users on this board, both of the alpha and gamma quadra.

    "An ENTp Einstein might spend more time trying to logically understand or work out himself the mathematics of the theory. Not to say that he didn't understand completely, but it seems clear that he did not emphasise complete logical correctness before moving on to another concept. "

    But this is a trait of an ENTp, NOT of an INTp!

    I just have a gut feeling he is an ENTp, and I stick with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    By restructuring it in such a manner that was unjointed in a manner similar to an idea brought about by extraverted intuition, rather then the linear, "left brain"*, function of Introverted intuition. Relativity is a prime aspect of extraverted inuition, not of the inspirational, "single-mindness" and perhaps even religious, nature of introverted inuition.
    Actually, Ni is a right brain function. Ni is NOT single minded.
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    No, Ni is left-brained.

    Unless of course you're deriving this from Jon's work, who subsequently derived it from some sort of MRI scan, similar to Lenore Thomspons's work, in which case we have contradictory experiments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    No, Ni is left-brained.

    Unless of course you're deriving this from Jon's work, who subsequently derived it from some sort of MRI scan, similar to Lenore Thomspons's work, in which case we have contradictory experiments.
    I've never even heard of Thomspons, what work did she do?

    I went back to BrainTypes.com to find what was written about the brain on there:

    Quote Originally Posted by BrainTypes.com
    Extraversion and Introversion—measuring the focus and levels of energy
    Extraversion (E): activated principally in front of forebrain—anterior to central sulcus

    --personality—the prefrontal cortex is the most significant area for creating one’s outward “personality”.

    --Expressing language through conversation/speech (activated by Brocas [left anterior forebrain]). In general, Extraverts speak more and louder than Introverts. (Nurturing, environment, and genetic variances also affect speech patterns; thus explaining most speech differences among Extraverts [and Introverts].)

    A University of California medical school used PET scans to examine brain regions of people while speaking. They looked at the brain while they (1) made nonsense syllables, (2) recited the months of the year, and (3) recited a briefly memorized prose passage. While both the "mindless" recitation of the months and the prose passage used Wernicke's area (the top back part of the temporal lobe), ONLY the prose showed activity in Broca's area. The conclusion: rote memorized verbal tasks require little thought or sophisticated cortical activity. Bookheimer, S., et al. 2000. Neurology, Vol 55(8), 1151-1157.

    --voluntary motor movements (activated by primary motor cortex—anterior to central sulcus). Moving the body is an Extraverted (energy-expending) function, activated by the motor cortex.

    --high degree of “attention” to outside world (principally a function of the anterior forebrain—especially right superior frontal gyrus)

    --expressing emotion (left anterior forebrain)

    --dopamine (a neurotransmitter that says “do it” is primarily in anterior forebrain.

    --cingulate gyrus—regarded as the volition and will center (located in anterior forebrain); it causes humans to act. In addition, Extraverts are innately designed to expend energy whereas Introverts conserve it.

    --planning—an integral part of taking action and expending energy.

    Planning involves maintaining one main goal while working on sub-goals for that main goal. This is apparently one of the unique human brain functions. The National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland has published findings that show that that particular task is performed in the most anterior part of the frontal lobes called the fronto- polar prefrontal cortex. Koechlin et. al, Nature 1999, vol 399(6732) 148-151.



    Introversion (I): activated principally in back of brain—posterior to central sulcus

    --understanding and comprehension of language (processed in left temporal lobe—Wernickes)

    --5 senses (taking in world around self)

    --touch and pressure (parietal lobe—which controls the primary sensory cortex.

    Behind the primary sensory cortex is a large association area that controls fine sensation—weight, size, shape, etc.)

    --smell and sound (temporal lobe)

    --sight (occipital lobe)

    --long-term memory—stored primarily posterior to central sulcus

    --neuroscientists now suspect there are 4 separate memory systems in the brain (rather than one as long believed). Conscious memory of facts and events—hippocampus; associative learning (like Pavlovian conditioning)—cerebellum; emotional memories—amygdala; memories of learned skills—basal ganglia. These are posterior brain regions.

    --In Alzheimer’s disease, long-term memory fades as the posterior brain cells die

    --self awareness (parietal lobe)

    --Introverts conserve energy whereas Extraverts expend it.

    --reading (posterior region)

    Dr. Kenneth Pugh, Psychiatrist and Medical Researcher at Yale, has been studying the neural pathways which are generated in good readers. When the brain is asked to go from the listening and speaking modes to the visual spatial, yet abstract production of reading, new relationships between regions in the cortex are formed. This is true for all written languages. Skilled readers have engineered neural networks, which take the visual sensory input from "eye to meaning" in about 150 milliseconds. This is done through the dominant path of the eye to three posterior gyrus (areas in the back half of the cortex). The lingual, fusiform and angular gyrus collaborate to convert letters into meaning.


    Sensing and iNtuition—measuring the way information is gathered or perceived
    Sensing (S): Essentially the 5 senses: sight, smell, sound, taste and touch

    --the processing of sensory input and sensory discrimination is facilitated by the parietal lobe.

    --5 senses (taking in world around self)

    --touch and pressure (parietal lobe—which controls the primary sensory cortex. Behind the primary sensory cortex is a large association area that controls fine sensation—weight, size, shape, etc.)

    --smell and sound (temporal lobe)

    --sight (occipital)

    --viewing and inaudibly reading language (posterior forebrain)

    --though most “Sensing” processes take place in the back of the brain, some reside in the brain’s anterior. For example, research demonstrates damage to the right frontal lobe creates an impairment of pictorial stimuli sequences.

    --the anterior right forebrain is especially adept at design and spatial fluency in contrast with the left’s verbal fluency.



    iNtuition (N):
    specializing in abstract, conceptual matters

    --abstract understanding of language—especially w/consonants. (Wernickes, posterior left)

    --intonation is a dimension of the iNtuitive brain function. Persons with right forebrain damage speak with flattened intonation.

    --metaphor—Persons with right forebrain deficit pick literal interpretations of metaphorical statements.

    --A striking finding from many who suffer right-brain strokes is that they can understand the literal meaning of sentences--their left brain can still decode the words--but they can no longer get jokes or allusions. Asked to explain even a common proverb, such as "a stitch in time saves nine", they can only say it must have something to do with sewing.

    --visual imagery—most aspects of visual imagery are right hemisphere duties.


    Thinking and Feeling—measuring the way information is reasoned
    Thinking (T): Inanimate, logical, objective, and systematic reasoning. Thinking is found in both hemispheres; the right specializes in spatial logic and the left in verbal and numerical logic.

    --synthetic, spatial reasoning is engaged in the posterior right forebrain. For example, damage in right parietal areas results in spatial reasoning deficits.

    --verbal logic—principally a function of the left hemisphere, especially in Brocas area. (ESTJs and ENTJs are the most gifted in oral language logic, ESTJs in practical realm and ENTJs with abstract.



    Feeling (F): Animate, subjective, values-driven, and emotional reasoning. Feeling is found in both hemispheres

    --sensing and retaining emotion—emotional memory (posterior--amygdala) In the latter 1990’s, PET studies conclusively validated the amygdala’s influence on feelings and emotion.

    ---expressing emotion—as early as the 1980’s, electroencephalographic studies revealed in patients that the left frontal region showed higher activity during negative emotions.

    --a 2002 study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences was the first to examine the neurological roots of what scientists call "negative affect," a trait that predisposes people to anxiety, irritability, anger and a range of other unpleasant moods. The researchers conducted brain scans that measured changes in blood flow within their subject’s brains. The scientists found that increased brain activity in one particular region – the ventromedial prefrontal cortex -- was associated with those who reported greater negative affect. Researchers say the circumstantial evidence indicates that the ventromedial prefrontal cortex acts as a sort of volume knob for emotions. While the emotions may be produced elsewhere in the brain in response to stimuli, this region of the brain can make them deafening or muted.




    Judging and Perceiving—measuring the way we engage the outer world (and hemisphere dominance)

    Judging (J): Structure, organization, seeking closure, local/detailed, methodical, and analytic (step-by-step).

    --the left brain is essentially the Judging hemisphere (unknown to Jung and Myers)

    --left brain performs sequential analysis, approaching matters methodically

    --left brain performs sequential body functions—which are mechanical, inflexible, rigid

    --left brain is orchestrated to a state of “local” bias

    --the “J” left brain is the conscious hemisphere, more in touch with the moment. It is time driven, clock driven—especially the SJs.



    Perceiving (P): Adaptable, flexible, open-ended, global/universal, and synthetic (multiple, parallel processor)

    --right brain is principally the Perceiving hemisphere

    --it’s involved in parallel/pattern processing

    --right brain processing is tilted towards the “global”

    --performs holistic body functions—which are smooth, graceful

    --the “P” right brain is the subconscious hemisphere; it is has greater difficulty paying attention. This explains why the vast majority of persons diagnosed with ADD are right-brained dominant Ps. The right-brained “P” is process-oriented rather than time/clock driven.

    --as reported above, many who suffer right-brain strokes can understand the literal meaning of sentences--their left brain can still decode the words--but they can no longer get jokes or allusions. An intact right brain is needed to make the more playful connections.

    -- the current assumptions about the relationship between handedness and lateralization are oversimplified. This is especially evident in left handed people who demonstrate use of their "non-dominate hand" in many more activities than right handed people.

    A study out of Duke University shows that, if at all possible, our brain will solve tasks by processing information in only one hemisphere. We see this on simple problem solving tasks. However, as the tasks get more complex, the brain will always choose to process by coordinating information between the two hemispheres.
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    But did he derive these opinions from knowledge of the hemispheres nature, or did he derive it through brain scans?

    Oh, and what I know of THIS specific work I only know of from picture scans of his book.

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    Read what he was talking about under Intuition, they say things like, "metaphor—Persons with right forebrain deficit pick literal interpretations of metaphorical statements." This is trying to say that the right forebrain is where inution is found. I don't know what other research he has done.
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    And by the way, where did all those INTPs go?
    Ok, here I am. Here's my crack at it.

    I personally believe Einstein to be an ENTp. INTps, by definition, are "goofy"; just check any Socionics site. But so are ENTps, and probably more so. In fact, ENTps often look for someone as wacky as they are (and who better than ISFps?)

    If you ask some of the INTps here they will tell you that an INTp can even be the life of the party
    Well, some parties.

    Also, he was even considered retared when younger. I think it would have made more sense for someone with a heavy intuition to be thought of a "retared" back than because he was always in his head (especially if it was Ni) and misunderstood.
    This is very true for many ENTps. However, I have yet to find an INTp that wasn't considered quite intelligent as a kid.

    4. He was a very spiritual person, and spent much time later on in his life answering questions about the spiritual and unknown aspects of the universe (in spiritual and unknown ways.)
    Please read this little story by Waddlesworth, our resident ENTp: His progression to Socionics. Note how "spiritual" his approach to his story is, and notice the reference to his "symbolic" way of thinking. Jung also defined, other than his standard definitions, extraversion as "connecting" and introversion as "isolating". It is in the extravert's nature to make rapid correlations between successive ideas and find that everything is connected, albeit in some haphazard way. But it is in the introvert's nature to heavily analyze a single idea to find its pure essence, thus actually finding how much difference this idea is from other ideas, the only similarities being between the pure essences of the ideas. Anyway, the extraverted intuitive is much more concerned with simple connections, like how symbols represent reality or how one thing is much like another. They are the "spiritual" ones. Now, they say that many INTps are highly religious, but I doubt many of them are "spiritual". They are more interested in how things truly "are" than how things "connect".

    I'll get to the rest some other time.


    Your INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Cone wrote:
    This is very true for many ENTps. However, I have yet to find an INTp that wasn't considered quite intelligent as a kid.

    Well, how about TheUselessBrain?
    First of all, he's talking about MBTI INTP. And I seriously doubt he is a Socionics INTp. Probably ENTp, in my opinion.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    The MBTI J/P scale tests for whether or not the first extraverted function is judging or percieving, thus making the correlation relatively accurate, depending upon the accurarcy of the test; thus, there is obviously no firm "correlation" of the types between MBTI and Socionics, seeing as many individuals show no change in their acronym, whereas some do, most often in the scale of J/P.

    And, although there is no mention of him coming to the conclusion of which functions reside in which hemisphere, I am going to assume that, since he did study whether or not a particular pole of a dichotomy correlates with a particular area of the brain and found positive studies, that he studied how each pole of each dichotomy correlates with it, even though there's no evidence showing this.

    And, yeah, Transigent, that's a very good point.

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    Cone wrote:
    I personally believe Einstein to be an ENTp. INTps, by definition, are "goofy"; just check any Socionics site. But so are ENTps, and probably more so. In fact, ENTps often look for someone as wacky as they are (and who better than ISFps?)


    In later life, you can't really type someone that well based on simplistic descriptions of behaviour. Anyway, he was a world renowned scientist, the most famous physisist ever, I don't know how close his publicly-known actions may have reflected his complete personality. (What would YOU do?)

    For a simple current celebrity correlation, check out Eminem, then watch his "biography" 8-mile. He has constructed a completely different public persona than the way he actually is.
    Oops, sorry, that wasn't actually my reason to think that Einstein was an ENTp. I was simply answering the question of "are INTps also quirky?"

    Quote:
    Please read this little story by Waddlesworth, our resident ENTp

    Oh, don't worry, I read it. But the fact that WW says he is ENTp has no bearing on what anything actually is in reality.
    Well, I was just trying to provide some concrete proof. Funny how Socionics, as a theory, needs proof, but when you provide it, it's disregarded as unfounded or unproveable itself.

    Quote:
    His progression to Socionics.[/url] Note how "spiritual" his approach to his story is, and notice the reference to his "symbolic" way of thinking.

    NP, just NP. (IMHO)
    And yet you read my story and even your own, Transigent, and you find no signs of spirituality or symbolism (well, except at the end of yours.) Still, this may or may not really point to anything.

    Quote:
    Jung also defined, other than his standard definitions, extraversion as "connecting" and introversion as "isolating".

    1. Good point, very interesting.
    2. Remember: Only God is infallable. (Even though this specific sentence makes some semblance of sense sometimes.)
    These adjectives are just more byproducts of the actual functions' operations. Note that extraversion and introversion can be defined as "objective" and "subjective", "connecting" and "isolating", "energy-spending" and "energy-saving", "acting" and "reacting", "outgoing" and "shy", "extensive" and "intensive", "fast" and "slow", etc. These make sense at times, but you can often find situations where none of these definitions hold true. So really, noone knows the absolute, true definition of both extraversion and introversion.

    Quote:
    It is in the extravert's nature to make rapid correlations between successive ideas and find that everything is connected, albeit in some haphazard way. But it is in the introvert's nature to heavily analyze a single idea to find its pure essence, thus actually finding how much difference this idea is from other ideas, the only similarities being between the pure essences of the ideas.

    Has anyone in the history of human nature done this to the same efficacy as one Mr. Albert Einstein?
    I'm not sure if I was really trying to prove anything about Einstein with that paragraph, so with that in mind, you may have a point.

    Quote:
    They are the "spiritual" ones.

    Not true. (At least, not to an extent that they do this to an obscene amount.) They may be spiritual (anybody may be spiritual), but this is not one of thier "defining aspects".
    Yeah, I was just basing that off of the fact that I heard ENFps were highly spiritual.

    If they put a whole lot of worth in being "spiritual", they wouldn't have time to do a whole lot of extroverting, since they would be constantly contemplating the abstractities of life and existence in the universe and human nature.
    I think we have a disagreement on what extraversion really is.

    Quote:
    Now, they say that many INTps are highly religious, but I doubt many of them are "spiritual".

    Religious, spiritual, these are all things that anybody can be. Ni as it is defined is a tendency towards a "mystical feeling", which is my conception of what we call "spirituality": deeply held, hidden truths that cannot be proven, but we KNOW (we just KNOW) that they MUST be true.
    Sorry, that was another definition-based error on my part. I thought spirituality was what Waddlesworth was talking about: symbolism and understanding by "connections". However, my thinking is completely opposite of his, which is what one would expect between Contrary types. Mine is the essence of things and understanding by "differences".

    This being said, I am sure we have all heard the phrase:

    "God does not play dice." - Einstein
    My sentiments exactly when it comes to quantum theory. I very much like that phrase.

    Quote:
    They are more interested in how things truly "are" than how things "connect".

    Again, shades of meaning that interlock and overlap, but I think this also shows the "Ni dominance" of Einstein's work.
    Yeah, it's these "shades of meaning" that make work in Socionics very difficult.

    I guess Einstein could have possibly been an INTp. I don't see why I'm trying to prove you guys wrong; like you said, anyone would want Einstein as a representative of his type. So shouldn't I be enthusiastic about this? Still, I have my doubts. It's a dirty job, but someone has to be the skeptic.


    Your INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Also, look at this definition of the Ti subtype:

    Extractor

    Extractor is a self-profound and thoughtful person. He is attracted to ideas what have nothing to do with the reality, for example philosophy, religion, bio-energetics etc. His favourite occupation is to compare different systems of logic - he’s a typical armchair scientist. He may be awkward, he does not pay attention to his appearance, and doesn’t care about health.

    Although it is definately concerning that this has a little bit of a contradictory view of the Ti subtype:


    FINDER

    Logical subtype tries to produce the impression of serious person. It can be sharp, at times even unceremonious. It is confident in itself, he says rapidly, usually in categorical tone. It is superfluously categorical in its judgments, it has a tendency to tie by others its opinion. It sometimes seems energetic and self-confident. It is impatient and always it cannot listen collocutor to the end. He frequently is fascinated by something new, attempts to find to it practical embodiment. It actively and energetically defends its interests. In this case it can flare up and offend man, but, after noting this, he tries to correct position. It is very proud and it can be insulted because of the trifle, talk roughnesses, and it will be again affable and benevolent after a certain time. It is not predicted and contrasting in its behavior. View - first scattered, then testing, tenacious. The gait and the gestures sweeping, confident, but are badly coordinated. Poses free, flattened. It easily draws together distance, it can embrace, kiss collocutor.

    Take of it what you will, but it seems to me that the first one is more cleanly articulated.
    I have considered that there might be more than two subtypes, and after reading this it makes sense. I sound a lot more like the second more than the first one.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tansigent
    She would probably want people with dominant Ni. Naturally, she checks her functional analysis MBTI charts, and what does she find? Well, she finds that INTJ and INFJ have Ni as a dominant function according to MBTI theory.
    Considering this, does what I wrote still make sense,

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Take your Socionics type, and try to apply it to your brain. I think that is the point of the acronyms they use. For example, an ENTP is also know as FCIR. What does that mean?

    Front (E)
    Conceptual (N)
    Inanimate (T)
    Right (P)

    It is saying that ENTPs use the front of their brain, the conceptual part, the inanimate part and the right brain. As for an ISFJ:

    Back (I)
    Empirical (S)
    Animate (F)
    Left (J)

    I think the functions that are considered JUDGING functions (Feeling and Thinking) are on the LEFT brain and the PERCIEVING (Intuition and Sensing) functions are found on the RIGHT brain. So, an ENTP will have a dominate Ne, so they are dominate in the FRONT RIGHT CONCEPTUAL part of the brain. Their creativity comes from Ti, which is in the left brain, so they don't use it all the time but is still able to be used creatively.
    You could take this further and put each of the functions to a part of the brain. Ne and Se in the front, right brain. Si and Ni in the back, right brain. Fe and Te in the front, left brain. And Ti and Fi in the back, left brain.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    My vote for ENTp. I have a friend who looks very similiar and is ENTp too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by f.
    My vote for ENTp. I have a friend who looks very similiar and is ENTp too.
    All that discussion about Einstein, and we come down to "he looks similar to an ENTp".
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    ENTp`s also love to dream about universe, space, time etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by f.
    ENTp`s also love to dream about universe, space, time etc.
    ... and so do INTps...
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Hmm, now I did a VI and it seems he was an INTp...

    And he have something strange in his eyes.

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    He very much has the EYES of an INTP.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Yes, but I have very diffrent feelings when watching at INTp and Albert.

    What about INTj http://ru.laser.ru/socion/references/filatova/intj/ ???

  27. #27
    Creepy-

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    "ENTp`s also love to dream about universe, space, time etc."
    & and so do INTjs

  28. #28
    Creepy-

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    "And he have something strange in his eyes"

    it's called genius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    "ENTp`s also love to dream about universe, space, time etc."
    & and so do INTjs
    Which is why we need to look at more than the superficial...
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    INTp - 60%, ENTp - 50%, INTj - 50%, so he is INTp.
    But he is weird. He have diffrent eyes than INTp`s.

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    So Albert was simply a genius - an EMC2 type

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    Here's a picture of young Einstein for a more suitable comparison:

    http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Images...in-young-1.jpg

  33. #33
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    Practical mathematics (the math with numbers) and super-abstract-you've-probably-never-seen-before mathematics (the math without numbers).
    The math in his papers wasn't even much more advanced than linear algebra, PDEs and tensor algebra, Reimannian geometry and Differential topology concepts, not some "super-abstract-you've-probably-never-seen-before mathematics ": he was not a mathematician, he was a physicist.

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    It is a myth that Albert Einstein was good a mathematics, he was not even good at getting good grades in school, period. He flunked alot of his classes in college and he got lots of Ds in classes he would have been otherwise good at. Part of the reason was that the teachers docked him alot for not showing up for classes or doing schoolwork. He studied his classmates notes alot, and flirted with his girlfriend.

    And yes, I am an ENTp and have pulled similar stuff. The only reason I passed alot of my classes in college was that I convinced the teachers I was smart and charmed them into getting a higher grade. And I sucked at math and flirted with girls alot.

    So, I guess that great minds really do think alike

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    Wow, I just read this now, I had no idea there was a side discussion about me ongoing.

    Now this whole possibility that I am INTp... hmmm. Definitely strange. I have actually had a change in my course of thinking that is still coming together right now about what much of this "information metabolism" is. I'll definitely post what I have begun to realize as soon as it starts to materialize a bit more. I prefer more meaningful posts, but I tend to have my moments of off the cuff behavior.

    Also, as for the conversation regarding my ENTp/INTp qualities, i'll write a post about myself you can toy with.

    But my opinion of Einstein comes from an impression I have. I imagine Einstein as an effervescent, goofy sort of person with many ideas and obsessions. That is my impression, the one i was raised on through cartoons and movies. It is difficult to get into someone's head and see exactly how they saw their own theories. We can speculate based on our own impression of his theories, but since the idea can be understood from different angles by different types it is tough to see his ideas as though you are einstein, you are just looking at the raw data and how you see it yourself. They say his temporal lobe was more developed than average, which could or could not be type related, but probably has to do with perception.

    Probably best to study his personal life or writings rather than the actual math.

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    E=MC^2 seems pretty basic.

  37. #37
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    Go ask somebody on the street what all these concepts are; go ahead. Not everybody is as smart as you. Wink
    I know, it would be nice though if everyone in the world had an IQ above 160.
    Abstract algebra is more specifically advanced algebra, some examples of abstract algebra (you will not get into this until college) are: rings and fields,
    Modules and vector spaces, algebras over fields, associative algebras and Lie algebras, lattices and Boolean algebras.



    Does your mother know the difference between Tensor Algebra and Differential Topology?
    Very highly unlikly, but it is all undergrad work.

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    Back in here once in Estonian Language Boris Pushkin wrote an article about the troubles one has in school. He typed school as ISTj. He explained it by that school gives knowledge for students in logically structured manner and it is scientithic so school is dominant. It realizes the methods for giving the knowledge by discipline and this gives it as creative. So the school is ISTj. Now as we have found out what type the school is, we can tell how different types get along in it and we can tell it simply- just by useing the intertype relations. ENTp is the Supervisor to ISTj and that means that in school entp tries to change the system and he gets on istj nerves. Entp easily understand things and wants to be creative, but istj doesn't let it be like that.School feels itself under attac and fights back. Entp students are young and school is an authority so these students are put in it's places by authority. Another thing about the is hierarchy. School has one. puts organisations into this form. So the entp finds itself being smarter than school. Supervisor is smarter than supervisee. Entp has as its strongest function, but istj has as PoLR and so it can't understand it and is dumb in the eyes of the entp. Many entps have failed in school because school doesn't value it's qualities and after school those entps have surprised others in science as science places improtance into different things, like synthezeising ideas together, which is one of the strongest points in entp. School doesnt value Ne.

    Now, intp is beneficiary to istj and it would feel comfortably under strong ,which is it's dual seeking function and so it would need strong will for working. You can study intp type-istj organisation relations from history. Leonid Brezhnev was intp and Soviet Union was istj.

    Some more types haveing problems with school are esfp's who might get kicked out from it cause they hate hierarhy and structure and enfps, who are in conflicting relations with the school and might get into serious problems with grades and it's mental health.

    It's best to be in school for beta quadra members. We all know why if the system is istj.

    So, here are some ideas I read about. I hope that others understood my poor English. And off course the school system might be different in states.
    Semiotical process

  39. #39
    Creepy-chris

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    "Supervisor is smarter than supervisee. Entp has as its strongest function, but istj"

    It would surprise you that there are ISTj's who are smarter than ENTps...

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    He obviously means "more adept at wielding a particular function", not smarter as in "more intelligent."

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