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    Default what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Someone (I forget who, perhaps Sergei Ganin) once wrote that if you really understand the types, are healthy and self-aware, your true type is precisely the type you'd want to be. The "best" type is your type.

    Not in the sense, "I wish I could be XXXx for a moment to be better at XXXx" -- in the sense of actually thinking, consistently, "why do I have to be this type, I wish I was that other type".

    I have observed that generally, when people mistype themselves and/or are unhappy with their type, it's because they don't really understand the type.
    If I were to describe an ideal vision of the person I'd like to be, it would look like this:

    Graceful, poised, intelligent, approachable, knows how to give good encouragement and advice, confident but not over-bearing, organized, punctual, everything done tastefully and with class, optimistic and cheerful, but without being too bubbly, down-to-earth, reasonable, kind, determined in an understated way, hard-working - not lazy. Patient.

    A strong, independent, but graceful and kind woman. That would be the kind of combination I'd want to be.

    What type would that make me?

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    ISTj, INFj
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    INFj, but maybe minus the punctual part.
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    newbie you remind me of diana somehow
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    Lol. It was good that I didn't answer. I could only see lack of . I.e. No in Ego-Block. Then I think a feeler of somekind but why introvert? Because of the "not bubbly" thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Lol. It was good that I didn't answer. I could only see lack of . I.e. No in Ego-Block. Then I think a feeler of somekind but why introvert? Because of the "not bubbly" thing?
    No, for me it was as simple as that she sounded just like my mother (minus being punctual).
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    OK so out of curiosity, how close to that are you? And in what areas are you not that?



    I'd like to be organized too. It's my dream. I keep striving for it. I watch home organization shows and try to copy it. LOL But I'm not organized.

    I could have written the whole thing as far as what I'd like to be
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oyburger
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Lol. It was good that I didn't answer. I could only see lack of . I.e. No in Ego-Block. Then I think a feeler of somekind but why introvert? Because of the "not bubbly" thing?
    No, for me it was as simple as that she sounded just like my mother (minus being punctual).
    Lol. The "patient" thing also sounded kind of . I'm really bad at this I think

    Edit: ah yes I did sense a rational vibe Rational with no in Ego-Block. No PoLR. Possibly a feeler. I don't know about introversion and extraversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    OK so out of curiosity, how close to that are you? And in what areas are you not that?



    I'd like to be organized too. It's my dream. I keep striving for it. I watch home organization shows and try to copy it. LOL But I'm not organized.

    I could have written the whole thing as far as what I'd like to be
    Well, I'm not organized either. I would love to be. I'm usually puntual though. I'm not sure how well I succeed in the other areas.

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    Well I think you have an suggestive function, so I think you're ENFp. But I think I have a habit of thinking everyone is ENFp, so don't take me too seriously.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Well I think you have an suggestive function, so I think you're ENFp. But I think I have a habit of thinking everyone is ENFp, so don't take me too seriously.
    Its kind of the same way that I think that everyone that's nice is INFj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Well I think you have an suggestive function, so I think you're ENFp. But I think I have a habit of thinking everyone is ENFp, so don't take me too seriously.
    No rational then To me that sounds very rational However the lack of is so obvious that why not PoLR I mean is the only function that I can't code out of that. There is not a single word really that cries TITITITI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    Well I think you have an suggestive function, so I think you're ENFp. But I think I have a habit of thinking everyone is ENFp, so don't take me too seriously.
    No rational then To me that sounds very rational However the lack of is so obvious that why not PoLR I mean is the only function that I can't code out of that. There is not a single word really that cries TITITITI.
    I'll keep ENFp in mind as a possibility Slacker Mom

    What about it sounds rational xox? I wouldn't rule that out quite yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    What about it sounds rational xox? I wouldn't rule that out quite yet.
    Well. I don't know. Everything? Perhaps I'm thinking in MBTI terms but there were mostly things like "organized", "punctual" (ok this could be lol), "(insert here some kind of quality with a clear purpose)" i.e. rational things. I mean what about "spontaneous", "fun", "good sense of humor", ...

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    Hmm. Oh I see. Yes, good sense of humor, that's important too. I kinda thought that went along with being cheerful and optimistic.

    As far as spontaneity goes, well I've discovered something interesting. I've liked to think of myself as a spontaneous person, but it's actually harder to be spontaneous when you're disorganized as weird as that sounds at first glance. I know that if I right now decided to go do something fun, I'd be leaving a lot of things undone that I need to do and haven't gotten around to. If I was organized and had that kind of thing all done already, it'd be no problem. See what I mean? In a way, disorganization is a trap that I've put myself into. If I could find a way out of that trap, my life would become lighter and more spontaneous.

    Also, I would like to keep my adventurous nature, exploring and traveling, and trying new things and all of that

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    Default Re: what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    If I were to describe an ideal vision of the person I'd like to be, it would look like this:

    Graceful, poised, intelligent, approachable, knows how to give good encouragement and advice, confident but not over-bearing, organized, punctual, everything done tastefully and with class, optimistic and cheerful, but without being too bubbly, down-to-earth, reasonable, kind, determined in an understated way, hard-working - not lazy. Patient.

    A strong, independent, but graceful and kind woman. That would be the kind of combination I'd want to be.

    What type would that make me?
    questions:
    do you desire to actually give the encouragement and advice? or would you like people to already be encouraged?
    do you desire to be confident...or to be seen as confident?
    do you desire the process of organizing things/people...or would you prefer that it's already organized or organized by someone else?
    do you desire the planning etc that is entailed in being punctual?
    can you delineate determination from over-bearing?.....though you did say "understated way".
    do you desire to work hard and all that that involves? or do you value leisure time?
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    Default Re: what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    If I were to describe an ideal vision of the person I'd like to be, it would look like this:

    Graceful, poised, intelligent, approachable, knows how to give good encouragement and advice, confident but not over-bearing, organized, punctual, everything done tastefully and with class, optimistic and cheerful, but without being too bubbly, down-to-earth, reasonable, kind, determined in an understated way, hard-working - not lazy. Patient.

    A strong, independent, but graceful and kind woman. That would be the kind of combination I'd want to be.

    What type would that make me?
    questions:
    do you desire to actually give the encouragement and advice? or would you like people to already be encouraged?
    I'd like them to be already encouraged, but if they came to me, that I could give them good advice, because I never know what to say to people when they come to me with a problem.

    do you desire to be confident...or to be seen as confident?
    To be confident. Although I would also like to be seen as confident. I feel like I'm reasonably confident, but it bothers me when other people don't seem to think I am, and that makes me want to change my behavior to show the expression of confidence that I feel (even when I may not feel it as strongly as at other times).

    do you desire the process of organizing things/people...or would you prefer that it's already organized or organized by someone else?
    I'd rather it be organized already. But I'd like to know how to do it too, so that if I needed to I could.

    do you desire the planning etc that is entailed in being punctual?
    I'm not sure. I do make it to things on time, but it takes an effort, and I tend to worry about it beforehand, get kind of flustered. I'd rather that it came more naturally.

    can you delineate determination from over-bearing?.....though you did say "understated way".
    determination -- not giving up. working towards goals, but not over-bearing would be not stepping on others to get there, not forcing my way there, rather steadily working towards the goals and around the obstacles that come up.

    do you desire to work hard and all that that involves? or do you value leisure time?
    I enjoy working. I feel good when I've worked hard and accomplished something. But, I also value leisure time. I really like to just relax, enjoy my surroundings, spend time with friends in family in a comfortable non-pressure kind of environment. Working hard makes me feel like I've earned that relaxing time. If I haven't done much work, I feel uncomfortable trying to relax.

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    Default Re: what would this say

    I don't know. You still sound rational to me. Probably > based on that last part. Perhaps you could be even ESTj or some sort of ESFj. But I don't know. I let others go from here for a while

    Edit: I vote for Alpha or Delta quadra anyways i.e. one of ENTp, INTj, ISFp, ESFj and ENFp, INFj, ISTp, ESTj. As I don't see the it would drop ENTp and INTj out. You don't sound ISTp either.

    So I think one of ESFj, ISFp, ENFp, INFj, ESTj.

    Blah..then again the work thing might be Gamma too..but I stick with these five for now

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    Default Re: what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    I don't know. You still sound rational to me. Probably > based on that last part. Perhaps you could be even ESTj or some sort of ESFj. But I don't know. I let others go from here for a while

    Edit: I vote for Alpha or Delta quadra anyways i.e. one of ENTp, INTj, ISFp, ESFj and ENFp, INFj, ISTp, ESTj. As I don't see the it would drop ENTp and INTj out. You don't sound ISTp either.

    So I think one of ESFj, ISFp, ENFp, INFj, ESTj.

    Blah..then again the work thing might be Gamma too..but I stick with these five for now
    Thank-you That helps narrow it down a lot.

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    @anndelise

    Have you formed any kind of opinion based on the answers I gave to your questions??

    Thanks

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    Default Re: what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    @anndelise
    Have you formed any kind of opinion based on the answers I gave to your questions??
    Thanks
    I was supposed to form an opinion?

    mostly, my thoughts for asking the questions were that even though we say how we would like to be....there are reasons for wanting those things, and consequences of having them.

    For example:
    do you desire to actually give the encouragement and advice? or would you like people to already be encouraged?
    I'd like them to be already encouraged, but if they came to me, that I could give them good advice, because I never know what to say to people when they come to me with a problem.
    Part of giving good encouragement and advice is
    1) paying attention to when someone seems/expresses discouragement.
    (a lot of people don't want to hear others express discouragement. It's possible that when they hear it, either they can't empathize/sympathize with the discouragement, or it brings them down low when really they just want to ignore problems and "just be happy")
    2) listening to what people believe is causing their discouragement.
    3) understanding enough about the individual, their interests, motivations, and experiences to get an idea of how it all affects each other, and how any changes the person may take will affect the other aspects of the person as well as the people around them.
    4) understanding what kinds of changes will likely work for that individual.
    5) being able to clearly express those changes and how to go about implementing those changes.
    6) and most of all, being aware that all of this is a learning process and your advice WILL fail, numerous times...as you begin to develop those skills.
    7) and finally, you'll need to be able to recognize that some people sometimes just want to release the pressure by talking/bitching/complaining about issues....instead of actually attempting to solve the issue.

    So we come back to the question, is the above something you are willing to turn your attentions to and learn including all it's failures, successes, and people getting irritated with you for trying to help them?


    Another example:
    do you desire the process of organizing things/people...or would you prefer that it's already organized or organized by someone else?
    I'd rather it be organized already. But I'd like to know how to do it too, so that if I needed to I could.
    There IS work involved in being organized....one has to actually organize. Not only that, but it helps to know what one is organizing for.

    My question in essence asks how much work are you willing to put in towards organizing things. If you were strongly interested in organizing, then there are numerous books printed in various languages that talk about various methods and environments for organizing. However, your answer seems to show that if you didn't have to be the one organizing, you'd prefer not to. And that this desire "to be organized" seems to stem from noticing a lack of organizational skills on your own part.

    So now, the question would be....if you were to read up on how to organize....and if you were to put those suggestions/advice to practice, what do you currently do that you would lose out on? What benefits of being not so organized are you receiving? (for myself, if I were to attempt to organize myself/life, I'd lose out on being able to follow/act on the spontaneous thoughts or interests that I randomly get. Being able to act upon the spur of the moment is too important to me for me to lose. And while I still feel embarrassed when a neighbor/friend comes over and sees the clutter in my home, and while I still get frustrated because I can't find something, I know that there are only minimal organizing actions I'm willing to take, because I value that freedom too much.)

    what do you think?



    And another example:
    do you desire the planning etc that is entailed in being punctual?
    I'm not sure. I do make it to things on time, but it takes an effort, and I tend to worry about it beforehand, get kind of flustered. I'd rather that it came more naturally.
    Notice the people who are always punctual. Generally they are not very spontaneous. Many of them even have difficulties dealing with spontaneous life partners/companions. It does take effort for them (perhaps not as much effort as a spontaneous person might need) to figure out the timing of when to get ready, when to get the kids ready, making sure that there is either given time for tantruming kids, traffic, other impediments to arriving on time). Many of them do get flustered and stressed about ensuring being punctual. Many of them can't understand why other people aren't as aware of and careful of their (the people's) timing as they are of their own.

    As for coming naturally, just as in organizing, giving advice, and encouraging others, being punctual requires attention, effort, and the whole learning process of failures and successes. Only after consistently meeting these things can it really "come naturally". However, to develop consistency at it may require you turning your attentions away from the things you enjoy, the things that you are interested in, and the things that make you feel......YOU.


    I apologize Newbie. I should have warned you prior to even responding to your thread, and before asking my questions. I really had no intention of formulating an opinion regarding your type by asking these questions. I asked them because I wanted to understand you a little better, and understand why you wanted what you were saying you wanted. And I wanted to understand what seemed to be holding you back from being what you wanted. Also, I felt that your answers could provide other people more information in developing their own opinions....as well as help provide yourself more information in developing your own opinion as to your type.

    If you have any questions for me, or if you'd like to talk about anything with me, I am more than happy to. Just so long as you keep in mind that...I'm quite nosy and ask a lot of questions.
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    wow! Lots of questions. Okay, I'll give it a shot. I guess I shouldn't have assumed that the questions you asked were to try to determine my type

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    @anndelise
    Have you formed any kind of opinion based on the answers I gave to your questions??
    Thanks
    I was supposed to form an opinion?

    mostly, my thoughts for asking the questions were that even though we say how we would like to be....there are reasons for wanting those things, and consequences of having them.

    For example:
    do you desire to actually give the encouragement and advice? or would you like people to already be encouraged?
    I'd like them to be already encouraged, but if they came to me, that I could give them good advice, because I never know what to say to people when they come to me with a problem.
    Part of giving good encouragement and advice is
    1) paying attention to when someone seems/expresses discouragement.
    (a lot of people don't want to hear others express discouragement. It's possible that when they hear it, either they can't empathize/sympathize with the discouragement, or it brings them down low when really they just want to ignore problems and "just be happy")
    2) listening to what people believe is causing their discouragement.
    3) understanding enough about the individual, their interests, motivations, and experiences to get an idea of how it all affects each other, and how any changes the person may take will affect the other aspects of the person as well as the people around them.
    4) understanding what kinds of changes will likely work for that individual.
    5) being able to clearly express those changes and how to go about implementing those changes.
    6) and most of all, being aware that all of this is a learning process and your advice WILL fail, numerous times...as you begin to develop those skills.
    7) and finally, you'll need to be able to recognize that some people sometimes just want to release the pressure by talking/bitching/complaining about issues....instead of actually attempting to solve the issue.

    So we come back to the question, is the above something you are willing to turn your attentions to and learn including all it's failures, successes, and people getting irritated with you for trying to help them?

    Honestly? No. Not when you describe it like that, as though giving advice is something that I would seek out to do. Often I just naturally find myself on the other end of people sharing their problems or asking for advice. I'm a good listening ear, and I do care about the people and their problems, but I'd rather just do that -- listen, and not be expected to give advice in things I'm not familiar in. Now then, if it's something that I know about, have experience with, and think I can help, I'm more than willing to share that with someone else. The problem comes in that I don't know what is best for someone else, and I'd hate for them to take my advice and it be the wrong thing for them. So, I'd really like to know how to share my experiences, and help them determine their own best course of action, without it being me directly telling them what to do. If someone just wants to rant, I'm fine with that. 1,2,3 and 7 of your points are things I feel that I'm already pretty good at; 4 and 5 are the tough parts, and 6 is what scares me. I can tell someone what I'd do -- but knowing what they should do, and them in turn following that advice is a responsibility that I'm not so sure I should have. If I could learn 4 and 5, then when the time comes 6 wouldn't be as daunting. Thing is, there's no way in the world for me to experience every problem that is brought up, (nor would I want to!!) so some of it always has to be guesswork I guess. You know though, it makes me feel good when people share with me, and trust me, but I just don't feel like I've really helped all that much sometimes. So, that's what it comes down to I guess -- that I want to be able to actually help when they need it, and not feel like I'm just wasting their time.


    Another example:
    do you desire the process of organizing things/people...or would you prefer that it's already organized or organized by someone else?
    I'd rather it be organized already. But I'd like to know how to do it too, so that if I needed to I could.
    There IS work involved in being organized....one has to actually organize. Not only that, but it helps to know what one is organizing for.

    My question in essence asks how much work are you willing to put in towards organizing things. If you were strongly interested in organizing, then there are numerous books printed in various languages that talk about various methods and environments for organizing. However, your answer seems to show that if you didn't have to be the one organizing, you'd prefer not to. And that this desire "to be organized" seems to stem from noticing a lack of organizational skills on your own part.

    So now, the question would be....if you were to read up on how to organize....and if you were to put those suggestions/advice to practice, what do you currently do that you would lose out on? What benefits of being not so organized are you receiving? (for myself, if I were to attempt to organize myself/life, I'd lose out on being able to follow/act on the spontaneous thoughts or interests that I randomly get. Being able to act upon the spur of the moment is too important to me for me to lose. And while I still feel embarrassed when a neighbor/friend comes over and sees the clutter in my home, and while I still get frustrated because I can't find something, I know that there are only minimal organizing actions I'm willing to take, because I value that freedom too much.)

    what do you think?

    Well, scheduling is something that I really don't like. I don't want to be tied to doing such and such at a certain time. As I was thinking about this, an automated system of some sort for the more important things (like paying bills on time) isn't beyond my reach, and although it would take some time in the beginning it would be worth it if it worked, and the only thing that I would lose would be that control and sense of completion that I get by having the bills in front of me and recording them and balancing the checkbook at the same time. I really don't mind doing that, it's kind of fun even. I'm actually good at keeping track of my finances and not overspending, and maintaining a budget. The problem lies in me setting aside bills when they come in, and forgetting about them, even though the money is in my account to pay them. I do the same thing with the ones that come in to my online bill-paying thingy. I'll get the notice via email that I have a new bill, and then I'll forget about it.

    I've read some organizing books already. What I think I need is just to make things simpler. Whenever I travel somewhere, I always come home thinking why do I need all this stuff here? I did fine with just a few clothes and stuff in a suitcase, and really enjoyed myself. Less stuff would mean less clutter would mean more time, less stress and more freedom. I wouldn't lose anything. Freedom, not being tied down, being able to go places and do things is really important to me. I hate feeling trapped. I'm embarrassed by the clutter in my place too, and no I don't really want to take the time to learn how to organize it all -- I'd rather just get rid of the majority -- so I think I've found my answer to that one.




    And another example:
    do you desire the planning etc that is entailed in being punctual?
    I'm not sure. I do make it to things on time, but it takes an effort, and I tend to worry about it beforehand, get kind of flustered. I'd rather that it came more naturally.
    Notice the people who are always punctual. Generally they are not very spontaneous. Many of them even have difficulties dealing with spontaneous life partners/companions. It does take effort for them (perhaps not as much effort as a spontaneous person might need) to figure out the timing of when to get ready, when to get the kids ready, making sure that there is either given time for tantruming kids, traffic, other impediments to arriving on time). Many of them do get flustered and stressed about ensuring being punctual. Many of them can't understand why other people aren't as aware of and careful of their (the people's) timing as they are of their own.

    As for coming naturally, just as in organizing, giving advice, and encouraging others, being punctual requires attention, effort, and the whole learning process of failures and successes. Only after consistently meeting these things can it really "come naturally". However, to develop consistency at it may require you turning your attentions away from the things you enjoy, the things that you are interested in, and the things that make you feel......YOU.

    The only reason that it's important to me at all, is for the sake of politeness. I don't want to keep other people waiting or show up too early either. If it's something that only affects me, well then, time doesn't matter at all. There aren't really that many things that I have to be on time for, it really just sounded like a nice quality to have more than any real good reason for it, and it'd be nice to not show up late one time and the next time show up early and have to drive around the block a bunch of times

    What makes me feel the most like ME are the following: spending time with family and friends, taking walks and enjoying nature, traveling and exploring new places, quiet time just reading or relaxing, physical work, and learning new things and challenging myself in new skills.

    What makes me feel the least like me are: monotonous routine clerical-type tasks, being a hostess for people in my home, remaining indoors or in one location without going anywhere for long periods of time, and having people conclude that I'm just a dumb blonde instead of seeing my brains and abilities.


    I apologize Newbie. I should have warned you prior to even responding to your thread, and before asking my questions. I really had no intention of formulating an opinion regarding your type by asking these questions. I asked them because I wanted to understand you a little better, and understand why you wanted what you were saying you wanted. And I wanted to understand what seemed to be holding you back from being what you wanted. Also, I felt that your answers could provide other people more information in developing their own opinions....as well as help provide yourself more information in developing your own opinion as to your type.

    If you have any questions for me, or if you'd like to talk about anything with me, I am more than happy to. Just so long as you keep in mind that...I'm quite nosy and ask a lot of questions.
    The picture that I described was what I imagined to be an elegant, together kind of person, aware of others and her surroundings, which seemed a nice contrast to the sometimes sporadic random person often lost in her own head that I can be. Now, I do think I have some of the qualities that I listed, and there are some that I would like to develop better, and others that perhaps on 2nd glance aren't really as important to me.

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    I'm not a voice of authority but I wish one would just confirm that you're ENFp so you can get yourself into Delta where you belong!
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Default Re: what would this say

    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Someone (I forget who, perhaps Sergei Ganin) once wrote that if you really understand the types, are healthy and self-aware, your true type is precisely the type you'd want to be. The "best" type is your type.

    Not in the sense, "I wish I could be XXXx for a moment to be better at XXXx" -- in the sense of actually thinking, consistently, "why do I have to be this type, I wish I was that other type".

    I have observed that generally, when people mistype themselves and/or are unhappy with their type, it's because they don't really understand the type.
    If I were to describe an ideal vision of the person I'd like to be, it would look like this:

    Graceful, poised, intelligent, approachable, knows how to give good encouragement and advice, confident but not over-bearing, organized, punctual, everything done tastefully and with class, optimistic and cheerful, but without being too bubbly, down-to-earth, reasonable, kind, determined in an understated way, hard-working - not lazy. Patient.

    A strong, independent, but graceful and kind woman. That would be the kind of combination I'd want to be.

    What type would that make me?

    This description sounds a lot like one of my friends...
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Part of giving good encouragement and advice is
    1) paying attention to when someone seems/expresses discouragement.
    (a lot of people don't want to hear others express discouragement. It's possible that when they hear it, either they can't empathize/sympathize with the discouragement, or it brings them down low when really they just want to ignore problems and "just be happy")
    2) listening to what people believe is causing their discouragement.
    3) understanding enough about the individual, their interests, motivations, and experiences to get an idea of how it all affects each other, and how any changes the person may take will affect the other aspects of the person as well as the people around them.
    4) understanding what kinds of changes will likely work for that individual.
    5) being able to clearly express those changes and how to go about implementing those changes.
    6) and most of all, being aware that all of this is a learning process and your advice WILL fail, numerous times...as you begin to develop those skills.
    7) and finally, you'll need to be able to recognize that some people sometimes just want to release the pressure by talking/bitching/complaining about issues....instead of actually attempting to solve the issue.

    So we come back to the question, is the above something you are willing to turn your attentions to and learn including all it's failures, successes, and people getting irritated with you for trying to help them?

    Honestly? No. Not when you describe it like that, as though giving advice is something that I would seek out to do. Often I just naturally find myself on the other end of people sharing their problems or asking for advice. I'm a good listening ear, and I do care about the people and their problems, but I'd rather just do that -- listen, and not be expected to give advice in things I'm not familiar in. Now then, if it's something that I know about, have experience with, and think I can help, I'm more than willing to share that with someone else. The problem comes in that I don't know what is best for someone else, and I'd hate for them to take my advice and it be the wrong thing for them. So, I'd really like to know how to share my experiences, and help them determine their own best course of action, without it being me directly telling them what to do. If someone just wants to rant, I'm fine with that. 1,2,3 and 7 of your points are things I feel that I'm already pretty good at; 4 and 5 are the tough parts, and 6 is what scares me. I can tell someone what I'd do -- but knowing what they should do, and them in turn following that advice is a responsibility that I'm not so sure I should have. If I could learn 4 and 5, then when the time comes 6 wouldn't be as daunting. Thing is, there's no way in the world for me to experience every problem that is brought up, (nor would I want to!!) so some of it always has to be guesswork I guess. You know though, it makes me feel good when people share with me, and trust me, but I just don't feel like I've really helped all that much sometimes. So, that's what it comes down to I guess -- that I want to be able to actually help when they need it, and not feel like I'm just wasting their time.
    This is actually where my primary interests all lie. Virtually everything I study, every project I have, is in some way connected to this. Intellectually, I KNOW that there are people that earn money from doing this. But I really don't think I'll ever reach a level I would deem good enough to even consider charging someone for it. This is an are also that I am very critcal of myself on. I don't feel I listen as well as I could (too easily distracted). Sometimes I can't handle people just wanting to bitch without wanting to solve the issue (though I do understand the need to get it out of the system, hear it being said, which clears up the thoughts and the emotions a bit, and then choosing whether to drop it, avoid it, or pursue it). I am working hard on learning 4 and 5. But in all honesty, 6 scares the living hell out of me.


    Well, scheduling is something that I really don't like. I don't want to be tied to doing such and such at a certain time. As I was thinking about this, an automated system of some sort for the more important things (like paying bills on time) isn't beyond my reach, and although it would take some time in the beginning it would be worth it if it worked, and the only thing that I would lose would be that control and sense of completion that I get by having the bills in front of me and recording them and balancing the checkbook at the same time. I really don't mind doing that, it's kind of fun even. I'm actually good at keeping track of my finances and not overspending, and maintaining a budget. The problem lies in me setting aside bills when they come in, and forgetting about them, even though the money is in my account to pay them. I do the same thing with the ones that come in to my online bill-paying thingy. I'll get the notice via email that I have a new bill, and then I'll forget about it.

    I've read some organizing books already. What I think I need is just to make things simpler. Whenever I travel somewhere, I always come home thinking why do I need all this stuff here? I did fine with just a few clothes and stuff in a suitcase, and really enjoyed myself. Less stuff would mean less clutter would mean more time, less stress and more freedom. I wouldn't lose anything. Freedom, not being tied down, being able to go places and do things is really important to me. I hate feeling trapped. I'm embarrassed by the clutter in my place too, and no I don't really want to take the time to learn how to organize it all -- I'd rather just get rid of the majority -- so I think I've found my answer to that one.
    By the way, there is a great program called FlyLady http://flylady.net/
    Things to keep in mind with this site....don't try reading it all at once. You can sign up for "reminders" which she does for free (mass mailing), which give you little steps to do each day towards decluttering and establishing a cleaning routine for yourself. She also has a book, but really, everything is there on her site. The most highly recommended part is this part: http://flylady.net/pages/cjmain.asp With at least a few minutes a day of following the guidelines in setting up your own routines, you can get quite far, even if you are like me and quit after step 2, restart a couple of months later, quit after step 3, restart later, etc. (I really really really really really really REALLY hate housework.)



    What makes me feel the most like ME are the following: spending time with family and friends, taking walks and enjoying nature, traveling and exploring new places, quiet time just reading or relaxing, physical work, and learning new things and challenging myself in new skills.

    What makes me feel the least like me are: monotonous routine clerical-type tasks, being a hostess for people in my home, remaining indoors or in one location without going anywhere for long periods of time, and having people conclude that I'm just a dumb blonde instead of seeing my brains and abilities.
    The picture that I described was what I imagined to be an elegant, together kind of person, aware of others and her surroundings, which seemed a nice contrast to the sometimes sporadic random person often lost in her own head that I can be. Now, I do think I have some of the qualities that I listed, and there are some that I would like to develop better, and others that perhaps on 2nd glance aren't really as important to me.
    The bolded part...makes me so happy.

    YEAH!!!!
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I'm not a voice of authority but I wish one would just confirm that you're ENFp so you can get yourself into Delta where you belong!
    Newbie does write quite a bit of things that fit NeFi. Not only in this thread, but elsewhere. My only issue with "pronouncing a statement" is that I am working on reverting back to NOT typing people, but figuring out individual actions and interactions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I'm not a voice of authority but I wish one would just confirm that you're ENFp so you can get yourself into Delta where you belong!
    Thanks Slacker Mom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    ixfj
    why the x?

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    ENFj. INFj has been suggested, but I don't quite see it. The two often come off similar in text in my experience.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    ENFj.
    Not impossible. I didn't initially get a Beta vibe though. But ENFjs are such chameleons that you never know They just put on different masks and sound different. Rational...sure. Feeler...sure. N-type...sure. Lack of ...yeah. Not a bad guess

    Newbie: would "Mentor" or "Actor" describe your personality well? As those are often mentioned for ENFj. ENFp would be "Reporter" or "Psychologist"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    ENFj.
    Not impossible. I didn't initially get a Beta vibe though. But ENFjs are such chameleons that you never know They just put on different masks and sound different.
    I doubt most of them would ever say they like hieararchies for instance. But what Newbie said about wanting to be and to be seen as confident could be an ENFj's way to put it. It's not that I want to be seen as unconfident, because that tends to make people run me over, but other than that I couldn't care less.

    Also the thing about not wanting to give advice when being given confidence. When people confide in me I will come up with suggestions (after having listened), not because I think it's the ultimate solution, but it could at least be something for them to use. I'll give advice whether you want them or not. :wink: My ENFj sister on the other hand is a fairly good listener, but don't give the feedback I expect from her.

    And note that none of the INFjs are saying Newbie is one.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    ENFj.
    Not impossible. I didn't initially get a Beta vibe though. But ENFjs are such chameleons that you never know They just put on different masks and sound different.
    I doubt most of them would ever say they like hieararchies for instance. But what Newbie said about wanting to be and to be seen as confident could be an ENFj's way to put it. It's not that I want to be seen as unconfident, because that tends to make people run me over, but other than that I couldn't care less.

    Also the thing about not wanting to give advice when being given confidence. When people confide in me I will come up with suggestions (after having listened), not because I think it's the ultimate solution, but it could at least be something for them to use. I'll give advice whether you want them or not. :wink: My ENFj sister on the other hand is a fairly good listener, but don't give the feedback I expect from her.

    And note that none of the INFjs are saying Newbie is one.
    So, is there sort of a common bond among the INFjs here, that you can all identify with each other and sense whether someone is one of you? How does that work? Are you able to tell pretty quickly? I found it interesting that Joy said that I sound like Diana, she's an INFj isn't she? Do you find that you identify with her?

    About wanting to both be confident and seen as confident -- I've found that people relate better to me when they get the sense that I'm confident in myself. They are less likely to try to run over me or manipulate me, or brush me off. It's not so I can be "top dog" or anything like that, because I don't aspire to that at all, but I do like to be treated with respect, not talked down to, or ran over. When I'm not feeling confident, it's hard to appear confident, and the way I'm treated at those times reflects that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    About wanting to both be confident and seen as confident -- I've found that people relate better to me when they get the sense that I'm confident in myself. They are less likely to try to run over me or manipulate me, or brush me off. It's not so I can be "top dog" or anything like that, because I don't aspire to that at all, but I do like to be treated with respect, not talked down to, or ran over. When I'm not feeling confident, it's hard to appear confident, and the way I'm treated at those times reflects that.
    <3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newbie
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    ENFj.
    Not impossible. I didn't initially get a Beta vibe though. But ENFjs are such chameleons that you never know They just put on different masks and sound different.
    I doubt most of them would ever say they like hieararchies for instance. But what Newbie said about wanting to be and to be seen as confident could be an ENFj's way to put it. It's not that I want to be seen as unconfident, because that tends to make people run me over, but other than that I couldn't care less.

    Also the thing about not wanting to give advice when being given confidence. When people confide in me I will come up with suggestions (after having listened), not because I think it's the ultimate solution, but it could at least be something for them to use. I'll give advice whether you want them or not. :wink: My ENFj sister on the other hand is a fairly good listener, but don't give the feedback I expect from her.

    And note that none of the INFjs are saying Newbie is one.
    So, is there sort of a common bond among the INFjs here, that you can all identify with each other and sense whether someone is one of you? How does that work? Are you able to tell pretty quickly? I found it interesting that Joy said that I sound like Diana, she's an INFj isn't she? Do you find that you identify with her?
    When I read a description like this I sometimes pick up on details pretty quickly that I either see in myself or as possible for someone much like me living a different life. But my and other INFj's gut reaction is only an indication, not proof of anything. I often identify with Diana in the everyday conversational things, but when it comes to describing type specific things we often contradict each other.
    About wanting to both be confident and seen as confident -- I've found that people relate better to me when they get the sense that I'm confident in myself. They are less likely to try to run over me or manipulate me, or brush me off. It's not so I can be "top dog" or anything like that, because I don't aspire to that at all, but I do like to be treated with respect, not talked down to, or ran over. When I'm not feeling confident, it's hard to appear confident, and the way I'm treated at those times reflects that.
    Yeah. Me myself am satisfied with only being seen as not unconfident and not being walked over. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being seen as confident or being ENFj for that matter, but it's not important enough for me to mention. That could just be me marking words though. The way I define confident is often different from how most others see it, it has to do with being secure about who I am and not the image I project. > and > etc.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    A point that should be brought up though, and it's something that Baby touched on in his type thread is that people can be of the same type and still have different likes/dislikes, various personality traits that are different from each other. We're not carbon copies of one another, and if the external surface qualities get too much focus, we can't really see what it is that separates the different types at all (if there is such a separation).
    Well said.

    And I don't think it's dishonest to get a second nick. Now I didn't see it myself before Joy mentioned it, but believed her when she said it. What has really confused me for a while is how our PoLRs can be so different. Ah, I don't get it. That is actually what had me think that you could be ENFj to begin with. (Because I really am certain of my type after accepting the typing by someone who knows me well, but I've never met you.) But we only see so much of each other from what is written online.
    INFj

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    Don't assume that those people are typed correctly.
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