Results 1 to 2 of 2

Thread: The Main Problem of Typing (Meged and Ovcharov)

  1. #1
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    578 Post(s)
    3 Thread(s)

    Default The Main Problem of Typing (Meged and Ovcharov)

    The main problems of typing

    Machine translated from

    Socionics - an unprecedented event in the history and science. Because it does not develop, scientists, and people of different professions who do not regret for this their time and effort. They do this not on duty and not for salaries. They are driven by the belief that science is needed by society, as it will help to raise it to a new stage of development, and then people will be better able to realize their creative potential and their relationship will be more harmonious.

    During its existence, socionics has made great strides. Its popularity is growing. It involved the development of more and more researchers, approaches that raise serious sotsioniku on the scientific level. This encourages us all more responsible attitude towards authority Socionics in society and academia. Therefore, it is necessary to address a number of important challenges facing sotsionikoy now, and above all - the problem of the names and types of diagnostics.

    I would not want to hurt someone's ambition, as is characteristic of all make mistakes, and we are no exception. The purpose of this article - to share some conclusions drawn as a result of awareness of many of our past mistakes and errors, the most typical of all practitioners socionists.

    We are all, without reliable test methods, still strive to achieve excellence in the art of determining the types. We have our own way of trial and error, learning from them and gaining experience. In this case, each produced their own approaches. But somehow, in the verification of the findings, in most cases, different diagnosticians received very mixed results. This suggests that, although we all aspire to a single truth, but this truth each of us sees differently.

    What to do? Trying hard and unsuccessfully to impose on others their opinion, despite the fact that it usually leads to a useless confrontations? And does it make sense to challenge the results of their colleagues, while there is no single test method which would guarantee an accurate result? And without this, how can you determine who is right and who is wrong? There does not help the credibility of researchers or their methodology. Because they, too, one can not guarantee against errors.

    In this regard, I want to say only one thing: a new stage of human self always raises a constant doubt of the correctness of what he is doing. Only doubt driven by creativity. Excessive self-confidence often leads to stagnation in their own development and errors. No wonder one Greek philosopher said, "Throughout the doubt, even though it seems obvious." If we take into service this saying, we will not change the self-criticism and evaluating their findings, we will not consider them as the ultimate truth. And then we will not give rise to disputes and grievances useless and become more responsible for what we do.

    This is also important because of the wrong types of diagnostics can suffer self-esteem man. He may start to overestimate their weak quality, considering their strengths, or to show a lack of confidence that really relates to his strengths. And this leads to the loss of many of the "I" and life orientation. And then leads to frustrations and neuroses, as well as to the wrong choice of a profession, occupation, friends and life partners. Due to an incorrect diagnosis and categorical forecasts in incompatible relationships broke a lot of families, destroyed many friendships.

    Therefore, make diagnoses type of person or a relationship with someone, do not forget about the possible consequences, in the event of a fault and the extent of responsibility that we at this ourselves. And that such errors were less little to gain experience. It is better to ponder on what this experience is built. Since socionics - science is still very young and not all of its errors are identified, we can not always be completely confident in the reliability of sources of information provided to us on a number of aspects. Building his experience sometimes on false premises, and not even knowing it, we run the risk of a long stay in the captivity of the errors and make mistakes, sometimes even irreparable. And in such cases, the experience of these errors is only getting bigger.

    To avoid this, we must always remain open to new knowledge, do not be afraid to doubt the correctness of his conclusions and always easy to part with the usual stereotypes, if you suddenly found out their error.

    The main problem facing the socionics is something that concerns the issues of diagnosis types. It is related, according to our observations, the fact that many of Socionics, tipiruya people in appearance, facial expressions, statements, forget about the most important tools sotsionicheskogo type - his model of EIM, indicating the strongest creative ego function block of this type, as well as on the weakest, superseded function, creating limitations for this type. Although, of course, options (or accents) of any type of identity to expand the boundaries of his behavioral responses and border business opportunities, but not so much that they showed up at the type level, rather than a variant. After all, how would people have not developed their weak quality, figuratively speaking, "the rear wheels of a vehicle are unlikely to successfully overtake the front." In other words, long a person can not successfully and creatively work on their weak functions. Periodically by emphasizing atypical functions - yes, but not always.

    The problem of diagnosis types takes roots in the early days of socionics. It starts with the wrong type of assignment of aliases, which often do not correspond to the actual types of famous people with whom they are associated.

    We must pay tribute to the creator of socionics Aushra Augustinavichiute for the fact that she had the objectivity of scientific honesty and courage to admit their mistakes in the names of types, and bring all my apologies. It happened at an international conference in Kiev in 1998. But many of her somehow ignored this fact, unwilling, perhaps, to part with their usual ideas about the types dictated by these pseudonyms.

    Also a strong influence on the interpretation of the character types had at the time the research group of Kiev sotsioniki pioneers led by Igor Onufrienko-Weisband which popularized among socionists lists of famous people, allegedly belonging to the different personality types. Many people still trust this dubious data and associate themselves with other types of celebrities.

    We can not assert categorically that someone of us know all the mistakes made in the definition of the personality types of famous people. Even the in-depth analysis of their biographies and works gives no ground to a complete confidence in the correctness of the types. Because there is sure to be present subjectivism count biographers and our own as yet under-developed diagnostic device, no matter how perfect it seemed to us.

    Nevertheless, it is quite obvious to inconsistency of character descriptions of personality types real personalities, most of them - those writers whose behavior is at odds with the types attributed to them (Hugo, Gorky, Dostoevsky, and others.). As for literary heroes, the basis for their identity as an appropriate sotsiotip were some specific features of character, isolated from the overall context of the literary and cinematic works (Don Quixote, Shtirlits). They are also not entirely consistent with the assigned their types.

    Don Quixote almost all his life performed feats in the name of the Beautiful Lady - Dulcinea del Toboso, which is not very typical for such a prolonged and constant motivation ILE logic, which is a function of the relationship of the most inert position model of its type. Of course, it is - a fictional character, and what can you do if the author did not know the personality typology. A socionics are supposed to know it, but for some reason, the authorities tend to trust more than his knowledge. As if the authorities can never be wrong ...

    Another example: for a first-class scout, how is Shtirlits insufficient only as an analyst. Being constantly in communication with different people and in different situations, the scout must also combine the fine quality of a psychologist, a talented actor and diplomat. Thus, for example, may be the type of EE with emphasis on the structural logic. It was he who in the diagnosis often falls into types LIE or FEL. These abilities are not typical for the type of FEL - too straight, inflexible and poorly versed in humans. Strengths of this type - the business logic and sensory experiences to good use in the workplace and work with technology, but not with people. Perhaps analyzing types, yet we should not forget about what information "toolbox" is in the strong position of sotsionicheskikh models.

    Of course, sometimes our intuition and experience to help us to see clearly at a glance the type of the test person, but we must not forget that we are at the same time can not be guaranteed error. Even if his appearance, mannerisms and speech, seem to us convincing enough for a diagnosis of type, not rush.

    As we have seen in a few years of this practice, there are many variations of each type of personality. They are associated with a relative enhancement features that are not typical for this type. Further investigation of this problem led to the creation of the theory of types of accents. Found that accented with any type of personality, but atypical for a function, reflected not only in his behavior, but also on the exterior. Therefore, a person who has significantly accentuated features not typical of his real personality type, and for another, can easily be mistaken for it. And this is the reason the majority of diagnostic errors. Including the mistakes made in the original name of the type.

    It is useless to debate about how accurate our measurement apparatus. This is - an empirical approach based on experience and knowledge. Its accuracy is also impossible to prove the theory, as well as the accuracy of other diagnostic tools in socionics. To check the accuracy of the method of this practice, you can read the description of the theory and accents characters each personality type. And then you will need to be trained to identify the type accents using this approach, checking the results, based on a deep knowledge of the functioning of the main provisions of socionics model of each type of personality and knowledge of the characteristics of each socionical function. Only will this help to learn to distinguish between types and their accents.

    This analysis will be more reliable than the determination of the types built on some misconceptions. Example of such 'secretive - means an introvert, "" emotional - then ethics "," rarely smiles - then logic "," slut - then intuit "," tasteful dresses - so sensorik "," impulsive changes plans - then irrationals " etc., or by a sudden inspiration, "I see", which are based on all the same misconceptions. Their lot in socionics and they built a lot of false stereotypes regarding the types of diagnostics.

    If you start to analyze, based on knowledge of the theory of socionics assigned type aliases or some socionists conclusions on the types of well-known people, it may be the impression that sotsionicheskie signs exist by themselves and the types have no relation. Otherwise, how can the diagnosis of types are not taken into account, such as the fact that the influence of introverts on the masses - is very limited due to their lack of confidence in the outside world, unwilling to be the center of attention and to take responsibility for others. And how can you ascribe all introverts are so bright extrovert qualities as expressed communication and organizational skills and ability to influence the masses, to lead them (type LII - Robespierre?).

    If, however, let me suggest that in nature there are introverts, what, then, do they differ from extroverts? And what then are all sotsionicheskie dichotomy? And if they are indisputable, then we have to live with nedemonstrativnostyu introverts, because they do not seek popularity, and so they rarely become famous. For the same reason - Dreiser, Dumas, Gorky, Yesenin, Dostoevsky, Robespierre, Balzac, Jean Gabin was in life more extroverts than introverts, as evidenced by their social activity and many aspects of personal life, preserved in the memories of their contemporaries and biographers. And if their information can be trusted, especially not understand how you can call them names certain types?

    It was also puzzling assignment of a pseudonym "Maxim Gorky" type of LSI that has the ability to associative and imaginative thinking (linked in the human psyche with the strengthening of creative intuition, so necessary to any writer), is in the weakest position of this type of model?

    The same applies to types of ESE, named in honor of Victor Hugo. Type ESE requires specific, pragmatically oriented (sensory) thinking. This type of individual intuition is also in the weakest position. How could he be a writer, able to imagine and deploy in your mind, any action, any human character, manifested in a variety of situations they invented?

    The same applies to other sensory type - Alexandre Dumas. Easy, fun style works - this is not an argument in favor of the development of imaginative intuition. For example, among people type EE or IEA is also a lot of comedians.

    And how was scientifically correct type assignment SEE - Leo Tolstoy? Type SEE - Social, thinking concretely and pragmatically. He would be hard for a long time to devote to mental simulation of different images - people, situations, etc. After all creative intuition in this type of person is in a weak position.

    In this regard, for example, it is unclear why the famous actor Jean Gabin was assigned type SSI? After all, the ability to creatively SSI transmit feelings of another person (the ethics of emotions) is in the weakest position of the model type. As a consequence of their particular thinking and therefore the inability to present themselves in a different manner and in fictional situations, SFI - the neartistichny nedemonstrativny and personality type. How he could have a lifetime to deal exclusively with this?

    Or, another example: the writer FM Dostoevsky, a man quite impulsive, addictive, emotionally incontinent, often demonstrative in their behavior. Is it possible to say with certainty that it should be such type EII, for which the most characteristic nedemonstrativnost and restraint in expressing their emotions?

    Therefore, in order to avoid further discredit sotsioniki incorrect names types we offer to give up the old type aliases, and go, finally, to their names or just motivated alphabetic abbreviations: ILE, SEI, etc. , Just as they do now in the West. However, they have adopted a four-letter acronym, but the principle remains the same. We'll discuss this with you in more detail in our next article "History of type names."

    We are convinced that this type of variability is the cause of most problems in the diagnosis of type. Often the person answering the questions of the diagnostician, or by testing independently evaluates himself, relying on the tried and tested in his environment or circumstances of some of the functions associated with its type accents. In our book describes the type of options (his emphasis), as characterological and visual. And we hope that further study of accents type and their differences from the dominant tipnye qualities will help us all to improve the quality of diagnosis types.

    Continuing the analysis of the causes of the problem of diagnosis types, it should be noted that a large number of errors we get tipiruya ekstravertov.Delo that they are not well versed in the features of his personality, as more outward oriented. They are often easier to understand the other person than himself. Therefore, their responses can not always be relied upon, no matter how sincere they are. Even worse is the case with typing bivertov (mixed styles extracted and introverts, one of which is dominated by a little). Their quality is so vague that it is very easy to make mistakes in their present tipnye orientation. It should be borne in mind that the melancholic and phlegmatic temperaments predispose to any type of relative introversion and sanguine and choleric - relative to extraversion.

    The greatest number of errors, according to our observations, obtained by typing the most mnogovariativnyh types - EE. These types of nature has endowed particularly rich. Externally, they can (usually due to a very pronounced them different accents type) seem to want what the other types. But they are, thanks to its creative function of extraversion and emotion better than other types of light are able to sense their feelings of others, and the additional emphasis of the same function, gives them the strongest in socion charisma, making them the most popular and influential people. This is another reason that this type of person there is another powerful tool to fulfill their social role. This is their realizable function - creative intuition of time. Just think: the most historical time, so - the story itself. This element of EIM is also responsible for modeling a variety of external images and events of the external world, it is particularly effective in a model of the extraverted type.

    Such information creative tools of this type gives him the ability to create the most successful on the stage, in literature and in the art of different images, and - most successfully create the course of history .. So EE usually - creators of history and politics, the best actors, painters, sculptors and writers. And because, thanks to this powerful tool of its kind, they are primarily social mission - the development of cultural progress, the nature of such an important goal for these types of produce more than others. This is evidenced by our statistics, and this assumption is also justified in my theory of "functional-role model Socion", which you will also be able to meet you. Depending on the type of accents EE, in the diagnosis, it is most often mistaken for the following types: EII, IEE, IEI, LIE, FEL, ESE, SLE, LII, ESI.

    The second is a very common, and therefore also of variability enough personality type is the type of ILE. He is the main executor of the second very important social mission: the development of scientific and technical progress. Nature produces as many representatives of this type of person to carry out this role. Because this role is particularly important in a given historical period, when we are on the threshold of an information society. Of course, now that culture begins gives way to science and technology. Depending on the emphasis of this type, the diagnosis of his often mistaken for the following types: OR, IEA, LIE, SEE, SLE, LII, FEL.

    As can be seen from my work, "Functional role model Socion" or briefly - "Model M" types of ILE and EE - this is the first pair in the chain sotszakaznaya leading evolutionary sotszakaza. It is a conditional block Socion ego. In the first position of this energy-model Socion conditional type is ILE, and the second - the type of EE. Therefore, according to their energy intensity, this is the strongest sotszakaznaya couple. And since it is the main evolutionary sotszakaz, and it was with her, he begins, then these types of nature, of course, must be born more and they should be the most diverse and active in order to successfully carry out their mission in all its complex diversity. This is facilitated by extraversion data types and the most appropriate to fulfill these roles the main creative tools of these types.

    From this it does not follow that we belittle the social role of other personality types. Without their participation, the society also could not develop. Figuratively speaking, one motor in the car a little to it in carrying out its primary role - to carry passengers. But if the motor is not working, the car would not move from the spot. In the development of this society sotszakaznaya couple performs the role of such a motor.

    Lovers of typological diversity among celebrities, as well as those who believe in uniform proportions of types, initially, this approach seems a bit unusual. Especially because each person is not easy suddenly realize how often he was wrong in their diagnoses. It is not easy to do and it was to us at the time. But later we found that these two types are really different, not only its quantity but also the quality of their social activity. They are, in most cases, in fact, the most socially active, productive, efficient and talented. Otherwise they could take a leading role in the development of society? Therefore, they are of course most of the celebrities. For the same reasons, these personality types and accents of the characters most pronounced. Therefore, they are easily mistaken for any other type. And so, when their tipiruyut, all experts strongly disagree. And since, in most cases, they are just their tipiruyut, it becomes clear why all the typology of diagnoses are often not the same, and why so much controversy surrounding this

    Talking about the types of quantitative imbalances in society, we can only talk about their basic trends - as long as there is no established truly effective typological test. In the meantime, the debate about whose statistics is more correct, is also better to postpone. Especially because the statistics in different countries, regions, cities, factories, etc. are bound to vary. To make accurate statistics produced in nature types, one would have typed with the entire population of our planet reliable tests (which is no we, nor the West, as far as we know). Then - to summarize the data and deduce from them the arithmetic mean of the number that accurately determine the amount of each type of person on the planet. This would allow us to know the exact proportions of the types in the society. But since this is not possible, we restrict ourselves only until we have considered trends.

    We sincerely hope that what we say will not only cause heated discussions in circles socionists that it would be very useful, but also help to think of the serious problem diagnosis and solution types. And while we do not have reliable methods, which give the same result in the hands of any diagnosticians, we should at least do not forget about their opportunities to make mistakes in typing, even in spite of his vast experience.

    As for the diagnosis of the type, here you need to bear in mind that they can not depend only on the numerical dominance in their respective personality types. They depend on the history of each country, its culture, geography, etc. This issue requires serious research, especially as the type of one and the same country, slowly, over tens or hundreds of years may vary. This leaves traces of the former type of archetypal as its accents. Therefore, there can also be mistaken as when typing people.

    The second problem facing sotsionikoy and also strongly discrediting it before official science - it's an incorrect name functions. This applies particularly to such terms as "sensing", "ethics", "rationality", "irrationality." These concepts in psychology are designated entirely different concepts and so the researchers can not be taken seriously as amateurish approaches in the names of psychological functions. In this regard, it would be nice to replace the name sotsionicheskikh functions on more appropriate to their nature.

    If someone has a proposal in this regard, and they are well founded, expresses them, please, in their publications, presentations and the Internet. In the meantime, the new names are not accepted, you can temporarily use, for example, the terminology of CG Jung: thinking, feeling, intuition, feeling. And the terms "rationality-irrationality" to replace the term "evaluation-perception", or some more suitable for this term. By the way, the terms extroversion and introversion is not quite correct in socionics, because they are not designated as the degree of sociability and openness, as the orientation of installations such as a better understanding of the external or internal world of the subject. They should be replaced by the terms proposed A.Augustinavichiute - ekstratimnost and introtimnost.

    The third problem is that socionics, many are its very static, as a kind of four-wheeled trolley simple, you want to study without developing further and correcting errors predecessors. Therefore, there is debate about how to correctly apply socionics temperaments, psychical, thinking styles, accentuation, Reinin traits and other psychological, physiological, and others. Parameters.

    We have in this regard is the following point of view. Per person affected by many psychological factors, and not just a model of EIM. But the model of EIM - that the main information-psychological framework that integrates many more undiscovered mechanisms, one way or another related to the functioning of the human psyche. Some parameters, when combined, increase the quality of some others - is impaired. Hence, infinite variation of any type (psychological, blood, genetic, etc.). Therefore, if we find similarities with the typological descriptions of 60-70% - that's good for the diagnosis.

    It seems to us that the model can not be separated from other types of known or as yet unknown in psychology and Socionics - psychological parameters affecting the type and energy-model. And if it is not open all the energy-mechanisms and the components connecting this complex model and, for example, temperaments, psychical, and other psychological traits and characteristics of the characters - it does not mean that they do not exist in nature and can not be. This book is dedicated to this issue. - Or rather, what we have managed to track along the way. But I guess, like a lot more to learn and understand, yet all will see a new theory of socionics in its entirety.

    And while many of socionics still sin that does not take into account the multifaceted personality type, in particular, and versatility features socionics model and most of Socionics - in general. They treat one face type or Socionics (by analogy - it is, for example, can be an elephant's trunk), and think it is the whole elephant. That is, they only see the pure types and imagine sotsioniku only in the form in which it was created Ausra Augustinavichiute. And do not take into account that each person is influenced by not only the personality types, but also many other different types of character (from various other typologies). Thus, some features of the characters superimposed on the other, their blunt, and sometimes even mutually erase each other. As a result, this character (in the framework of this typology) sometimes becomes unrecognizable. Therefore can not be studied separately "trunk" or "elephant's tail" and think that it is the whole "elephant". The study of the complex and mnogovariativnogo personality type should be approached holistically, taking into account and sotsionicheskie, and psychological aspects of the individual.

    Therefore, we believe that for the accurate diagnosis of types and their statistics is necessary to create projective tests and techniques that are associated with each major type of channels of perception, processing and delivery of information. Such procedures shall be free from self-esteem, an individual can not inadvertently affect the test results. And while they are not present and no one knows how to do it better to stop arguing about who tipiruyut better. Every artist writes his canvas and there is no tool to measure the degree of realism of his images. And although we have made the first attempt to create a projective technique computer genre pictures on the thinking styles of children, but it also still needs to be improved.

    The fourth problem facing Socionics - exaggeration of the role of dual relationships and misperception reviznye and sotszakaznyh relations as purely negative and destructive. Theory sotsprogressa target groups with which you will also learn, hopefully debunk this misconception. Because there is nothing in nature is completely good or bad - any type or blocks, or relationships. Everything has its positive and negative aspects, its purpose and role.

    In dual-identical relations person often meets greater tolerance and indulgence to their shortcomings. These relationships, in general, are relaxing. Relationship of social audit and social order - it's two kinds of the most socially progressive relationship. These relationships - the main engines of the evolution of society, the two main instrument for social progress. They are indispensable in the work can be challenging and also in his personal life, if you know with their power tools and guide their interactions in the right direction, and disputes be transferred from the destructive to constructive discharge. To do this, you must also know the basics of ethics and culture of communication. Then, and konflikter, and a partner with whom you have a relationship - Superego, you can perfectly complement the work and in solving everyday problems. And if you find the right approach to it, knowing its type and its accents, and related, forms of feelings and attitudes, you can emerge as good personal relationship.

    The fifth problem in socionics can be attributed, oddly enough, the problem of the relationship. It is surprising that we - the people who study the science of types and relationships themselves that science does not know how to use. This is what is called "cobblers - without shoes." The authors of this article, I assure you - is no exception. We all often refuses patience and tolerance when we communicate with those who did not understand or try to unfairly hurt.

    Each seeks to impose its point of view to another, instead of being loyal and to tolerate the errors of their colleagues. However, we sometimes as a famous saying "looking for the speck in another's eye, oblivious to his and logs." Therefore feuding as separate socionics, and entire schools, clubs and magazines. And each sees only his side of the truth, not noticing their mistakes or problems of another. Thus are born of misunderstanding and there are totalitarian and authoritarian tendencies that are not valid for our passionate, and so - democratic in nature, movement.

    The only possible way out of this impasse - remember each of the error of their own measuring tools. And to learn more loyal and tolerant of the mistakes of others and their points of view. Otherwise, science, steeped in useless destructive disputes at risk of losing the opportunity to objectively evaluate the information coming from the opponents, quickly accepting it or rejecting. This can significantly slow down its further development.

    Of course, the discussion - something necessary and useful in the scientific world, but do not forget that "conversations (or arguments) will soon subside, and love will" - and it is our love of socionics that unites us all, socionists - young and mature and those who are just about to embark on this path. And so - let's learn to live together, and together strive for a high level of competence, which will serve for all of us rallying point, leading to an understanding.


    A. Model 1 Augustinavichiute informational metabolism, Lithuania, 1980

    2 BI Dodonov In the world of emotions, Kiev, Ukraine Political Literature, 1987

    3 Zharikov ES About you and for you, Moscow, 1990

    4 K. Leonhard accentuated personality, Kiev, "Visha School" 1989

    5 Meged VV, Ovcharov AA, "The concept of energy in the model" A "and the construction of vertical subtypes. Subtype career orientation types, x-l" sleep ", October 2002

    6 Meged VV, Ovcharov AA Applied Socionics, x-l "Socionics, psychology and interpersonal relations", May-June 1999

    7 Meged VV Theory accents type rail l "Socionics, psychology and interpersonal relations", May-June 1999

    8 Meged VV, Ovcharov AA, the book "The characters and relationships," because in the Armada-Press, Moscow, 2002, 703 p.

    9 Meged VV Biopsychic aspects socionics model type, x-l "Socionics, psychology and interpersonal relations", February 2000

    10 Meged VV Type compatibility, x-l "Socionics, psychology and interpersonal relations", March 2000

    11 Meged VV Psychophysiological aspects of type, x-l "sleep", December 2002

    12 EI Rogov Handbook of Practical Psychology in Education, Moscow, VLADOS, 1995 s.196-201.

    13 Stolyarenko LD "Principles of Psychology for universities" Rostov-on-Don, Phoenix, 1997 s.164-180.

    14 Jung GK Psychological Types. SPB. "Juventas" M, "Progress-Universe" 1995

  2. #2
    The Ubiquitous Mr Lovegrove Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    255 Post(s)
    2 Thread(s)


    This makes some very good points about the state of Socionics. The thoughts in regard "Type Benchmarks/Exemplars" were particularly insightful!
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts