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Thread: INTp Jobs/Careers/Occupations: What do fellow ILIs do for a living?

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    Contra's Avatar
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    Default INTp Jobs/Careers/Occupations: What do fellow ILIs do for a living?

    So the ENTp thread inspired me to do this one for ILIs. I'm currently studying Finance and Economics, but I've played around with the idea of doing econ and philosophy or maybe international studies and econ. Still not 100% on what I really want to do. What do other ILIs on the forum (or ones you know) do for a living? Is there such thing as a field that ILIs generally prefer or are good at? My instinct tells me there is. Whatever the case, I'm interested to hear it.

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    I'm not ILI, so I'll just go from the ones I know.

    One of them is a barrister (court room lawyer), one is doing a PhD in philosophy and intends on becoming an academic and one is in a band with me and has no concrete plans to do anything other than a media degree and be in that band. All three are quite creative people and think well outside the box at times.

    I think innovation and creativity are the two big things for ILIs, even if they themselves won't admit it. They can typically pour through large amounts of writing, so things like research, academia and law suit them well. They're kind of like the theoretical to LIE's practical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    I've played around with the idea of doing,,,,philosophy. Is there such thing as a field that ILIs generally prefer or are good at? My instinct tells me there is. Whatever the case, I'm interested to hear it.
    I don't really know my type anymore or if type even exists, but, assuming, I usually lean towards ILI. So, as a possible ILI, I too also have a passion for philosophy. I've always liked Nassim Nicholas Taleb's conception of resilient truths, ie that memes that last, whether or not they are "empirical" in a shallow scientific sense, are proven to have some utility due to their continued existence. What is philosophy, then, but a compendium of strains of thought which have stood the test of time? (Modern science, meanwhile, has a (relatively) very fast overturn and mutation rate, which Schopenhauer was keenly aware of.)

    So make of that what you will.

    My ILI uncle works in IT, some kind of software management or architecture. Some of the MBTI INTJ sites half-jokingly say all INTJs become programmers eventually.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I think all three of them have voiced the importance of moving or just doing something. Inertia seems to be a big part of Ni(<--input on this observation would be helpful)
    Once again, not sure I'm ILI, but...yeah, this is kind of the reason I have a love-hate relationship with academia. I like consuming large information dumps for fun; the more I know, the more prepared I feel. But the social structure as a whole is rife with space-cadet Ne types, who want to discuss the myriad ideal worlds out there. me, I'd rather live on planet earth, provide a good or service that people actually need, instead of being part of the parasitic "intellectual" class...but I digress.;;

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    Contra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I can't tell if a trend is emerging yet, but they all have more than one thing that they're interested in... and I think all three of them have voiced the importance of moving or just doing something. Inertia seems to be a big part of Ni(<--input on this observation would be helpful)
    This, I know to be true just by being ILI. I waver a lot, and I've already decided that I'm going to have to just pick something and go with it because I will never know until I just try something. I've driven my parents insane just going over what I want to major in a million times over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    I think innovation and creativity are the two big things for ILIs, even if they themselves won't admit it. They can typically pour through large amounts of writing, so things like research, academia and law suit them well. They're kind of like the theoretical to LIE's practical.
    haha, I'd be willing to claim those talents. I'd love to be able to be innovative in whatever field I choose.

    In addition to what you mentioned, I think there are a lot of INTp investors and traders also. I think the market probably appeals to Gamma NTs generally (It appeals to me at least).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    On a different note, are there not many Gammas on this site? Not sure yet (new) but it seemed like a thing.
    Not a ton compared to Beta or Alpha and most of the ones that are on here aren't especially active.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    I read @Expat's thing on hidden agenda (whoa, interesting!)... do you think ILIs are closet idealists? Not, like, impractical dreamers or anything, but like, Fi-flavor idealists?[
    Yes and Yes. I think the types of idealists ILIs represent are usually different from the ones alphas and betas represent. Though I don't think that excludes ILIs from being ideological due to Demonstrative Ti and Mobilizing Fi. So I think you are on the right track by calling them Fi flavored idealists.

    I was wondering, too, because I read a fairly well-developed argument on a different site for the character, Jay Gatsby, being ILI. Thoughts? <--Sorry, this is sorta off-topic... but it could potentially influence ILI career decisions... like, if Ni+Fi were to "loop," as they say, I could see it leading to very high standards (with regards to future investments as well as ethical considerations)
    That's really interesting. Could you show me where you found that argument? I've never really thought about him being ILI but I could actually see it. While I wasn't a fan of The Great Gatsby I've felt like I could relate to Gatsby. Also i agree with you on the Ni+Fi loop.
    Last edited by Contra; 08-18-2014 at 02:25 AM.

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    I will weigh in here as an alleged ILI.

    I used to like economics, but now I'd rather study psychology. I don't see me changing my mind about that anytime soon (though if you had asked me a few years ago, I'd probably have said the same thing about economics).

    (edit: I was also obsessed with biology at one point.)

    Presently, I make my living in retail.
    Last edited by Capitalist Pig; 08-18-2014 at 04:31 AM.

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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    My ILIs:
    medical researcher
    philosophy professor
    musician/tinkerer (but met him when we both worked in a research environment)
    English professor
    supply chain person for a cosmetics company

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider
    I'd particularly like to hear examples of Ti idealism - I'm sure it exists, just don't know how it would manifest (is this thread an appropriate place to do it, or should we stay on topic with the INTp careers?)
    Good question about Ti idealism. My stab here is that this reputation of Ti-idealism is more coming from alleged alpha quadra values than from anything too intrinsic to Ti. The reason Ti is suitable for idealistic ventures though is that it is static logic, which thus tends towards isolating unchanging principles.

    I'd say the key to understanding this is to really distinguish logic and ethics, so that we can see how their idealisms could differ. The difference to me is, going with ethics' foundation in the Jungian concept of feeling, that the ethics/F side of things deals with reasoning very expressly from a humane standpoint, meaning instead of logic being the foundation to the connections made, it is human relatability to the point made. Where logic encapsulates an idea in a well-defined definition, and then can show its implications in a formal system which exists in a sense removed from the humane sphere, ethics, as clearly as it may be written and no matter how abstract the point made is will be something requiring humane relatedness to truly appreciate the point. Some use the term "involved" to describe ethics and sensation, as both involve the human being in question in their sphere of experience or judgment.

    T idealism then just differs from F idealism in the sense of the medium used to establish its connections. Idealism is idealism, really, but the focus on dispassionate logic gives one a specific sense of rational certitude. I think of F reasoning as appealing to the universal subject of humane evaluation for ultimate rational certitude.

    Naturally, there are ethical philosophers who approach the idea of ethics through T. The ideas of good, bad, evil, justice all can be approached from F or T. T is more apt to notice the formal similarities between things, F is more apt to relate humanely to things. The ethical dominants are more masterful at exposing the humane side of things, the T ones typically more so at asking purely formal logical questions about a concept involved in ethics and delineating the implications of these questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider
    So I'm reading, maybe a purity of logical thought? A logical consistency that is sought despite the imperfection of humans that might adhere to it?
    Sounds right as far as "Ti-idealism" is concerned. Idealism tends to come in whenever there's a sort of principle or idea that is held above the concrete reality of things, and whenever such idealism is upheld, there must be a reason behind that principle/idea being upheld. That reason tends to come in the form of some function. It could be pure intuition, pure thought, so forth. In Ti-idealism, yes, holding ourselves to pure logical thought at all times for the principle of it would be the thing.

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    Are ILI idealists? I'd say yes in a way, yes the Fi HA is one thing. I think Te makes them less removed from examining the exact nature of processes though. Static idealism might somehow resemble the traditional idealism (in the vernacular) picture more, which purports to follow some kind of "perfect doctrine" which tends to evoke a sense of being fixed. I think of Ni-Te as an outlook which may see the picture of the ideal as more fluid, and place less importance on isolating an ideal to follow than on observing the essential qualities of how things do flow.

    At the end of the day both have their places. I think the fixed static ideal is something useful in so much as, sure, we may stray from it, but it's still the thing to turn to. Ti-idealism still does the foremost in terms of isolating the essential principles describing the ideal in logically consistent form. The reason the alpha NT are said to bounce from place to place is that they're not energized in examining the ebb and flow of processes around and away from the ideal - they see potential as a static quality of an object, thus their abstract principles encapsulate the ideologically consistent law in accordance with the highest static potential of things. This is why they (alpha NT) appear idealistic in the vernacular - the dynamic potential is more likely to pay attention to the abstract qualities which mark the entropic flow of the process away from the apparent ideal. Or in reality, to Ni there's no stable ideal you can capture in a set of laws in a way that really captures their view of reality.

    I think again, both these points of view exist in both alpha NT and gamma NT, just the focus is different in that the former sees the main aim to capture in general logical systems the essential principles of things, based on their potential rather than actuality. They are both likely to learn each others' information sets pretty well, but have a focus naturally in terms of quadra.

    The Fe/Fi thing plays out here differently because dynamic ethics serves as motivator to alpha NT. They believe in T-idealism generally, and minimizing emotional distress is seen as the means to adhering to the perfect T idealism. They are more receptive to those who monitor their emotional state and help them stay energized enough there that they stay course with the static logical principles.

    Gamma NT instead prefer Fi and Se which well to be honest, this isn't really a vernacular-level "idealistic" combination in so much as I think delta NF are the real idealistic static F's, where Fi+Se is more related to the ethical actuality of things. It can be something other than the harsh judgment some sources keep emphasizing though. I think gamma Fi can be plenty gentle. Se isn't always about harshness (that's emotionalizing it too much), it's more about the highest concrete actuality of things, what is needed to instinctually move forward from one point to another. I think Fi+Se could be as simple as contemplating your humane relation to things in terms of the actuality of what you can move forward to do/accomplish in a concrete way.

    So really, I could see gamma NT seeing alpha NT as sort of pompous in a way, trying to attain some kind of unreachable static ideal potential of things, and not really view themselves as more blatantly materialistic or anything, and equally philosophical, just that static NT does sound a tad bit more like vernacular idealism than dynamic NT does in the traditional ways they're portrayed.

    You do get, though, alpha NT who are realistic about how likely their ideal can be attained beyond just intellectually. and such.
    Last edited by chemical; 08-21-2014 at 11:41 PM.

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    InvisibleJim's Avatar
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    I'm a Petroleum Engineer working in managing oil fields including their development and operations.

    Pay is decent and it's a varied job.

    I would recommend it to ILIs because it is quite complex and interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I'm a Petroleum Engineer working in managing oil fields including their development and operations.

    Pay is decent and it's a varied job.

    I would recommend it to ILIs because it is quite complex and interesting.
    That's really interesting. I've definitely considered work in oil since I go to school in Texas. What is your day to day work like, if you don't mind me asking?
    Last edited by Contra; 08-23-2014 at 05:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    That's really interesting. I've definitely considered work in oil since I go to school in Texas. What is your day to day work like, if you don't mind me asking?
    It's quite variable, but due to the nature of my current role it involves more technical & business modelling than onsite tool pushing or operations work. But I do get bored and go play with helicopters at least once every 2 months.

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