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Thread: *sigh* Here we go!

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    Default *sigh* Here we go!

    Hello everyone ~


    I have to admit, I used to be skeptical about Socionics, and still somewhat am. However, I am here to learn and delve deeper into the theories Socionics has to offer, and how I can see them mirrored in my own daily life.

    I am IEI, though I still struggle with choosing one of the subtypes. I feel like I can be the Ni or Fe subtype, depending on my life circumstances.
    When I was younger, in my early teens, I seemed more like the Fe subtype. Exuberant around people at times, but extremely introverted on my own – I usually needed quite some time by my own.

    The last two years or so I have become extremely reserved and very much like how the Ni subtype's appearance is described as. Sometimes, after I have opened up to people, my behavior can resemble the Fe subtype's one once again, though this is not the state I am usually in.


    In case any other IEIs stumble across this post, please tell me how you would differentiate between the two subtypes, and how you found out yours.

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    Hello. Which part of Germany are you from?
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    The last two years or so I have become extremely reserved
    Why are you reserved?

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    Hello




    459
    The Contemplative

    Interest:
    – making sense of the world
    – comfortable with solitude

    Mission:
    – delve deeply into the mysteries of life and share your insight with others

    Character:
    – intuitive
    – knowledgeable
    – accepting
    – original
    – wise
    – peaceful
    – self-aware
    – reflective
    – very shy
    – reserved
    – philosopher
    – passive
    – quiet
    – soft energy
    – dissatisfied
    – capacity for depth
    – reclusive
    – humble
    – modest
    – discrete
    – ethereal
    – dreamy
    – unassertive
    – pleasant
    – objective + subjective
    – sensitive
    – avoidant
    – perceptive
    – thoughtful
    – responsible
    – diligent
    – accepting
    – idealist
    – open minded
    – easygoing, unconventional
    – fragile
    – romantic
    – insightful
    – imaginative
    – unstructured, laid back
    – random

    Blind spot:
    – easily flooded with emotion -> difficult to voice your feelings and ideas to others
    – so focused on inner world -> become inhibited and appear indifferent to others
    – insecure -> become moody and expect others to initiate and come towards you


    I think my tritype correlates to my being IEI-0 but I do tend to lean to the Ni side. I am pretty efficient with both Fe and Ni though.
    Last edited by Aylen; 08-13-2014 at 06:58 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Why are you reserved?
    Hm, I have went through some emotional struggles, so to speak. As a fellow Type 4, you might be able to relate to that.
    But overall, I am rather reserved.

    I have taken a test on learnmyself.com , which gave me this rather accurate description of myself:

    "Prodigies are emotionally reactive, which means that they experience their emotions strongly and can be very passionate., however also have a higher tendency to experience emotions such as anxiety, anger and depression. Due to their independence and reserve, sometimes the Prodigy can be perceived as arrogant or unfriendly, however this is merely because they don't require the same level of social stimulation or interaction that others may seek. The Prodigy enjoys a good balance between the real world and fantasy, they are mostly aware of and in touch with their emotions. Being open-minded to new and unusual ideas helps them to interact with the world. With a healthy skepticism of the motives of others, and a belief in justice and being self made, sometimes the Prodigy can come across as guarded or intimidating. However the Prodigy generally has good self discipline and is recognized as being able to plan and think ahead."

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    @Aylen

    Oh hi, perfect greeting!

    Awesome, we both have the exact same tritype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Hello everyone ~


    I have to admit, I used to be skeptical about Socionics, and still somewhat am. However, I am here to learn and delve deeper into the theories Socionics has to offer, and how I can see them mirrored in my own daily life.

    I am IEI, though I still struggle with choosing one of the subtypes. I feel like I can be the Ni or Fe subtype, depending on my life circumstances.
    When I was younger, in my early teens, I seemed more like the Fe subtype. Exuberant around people at times, but extremely introverted on my own – I usually needed quite some time by my own.

    The last two years or so I have become extremely reserved and very much like how the Ni subtype's appearance is described as. Sometimes, after I have opened up to people, my behavior can resemble the Fe subtype's one once again, though this is not the state I am usually in.


    In case any other IEIs stumble across this post, please tell me how you would differentiate between the two subtypes, and how you found out yours.
    You buy socionincs now? I don't get how skeptical, am IEI and then subtype experience and change all fits together

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    You buy socionincs now? I don't get how skeptical, am IEI and then subtype experience and change all fits together
    I started with MBTI, and moving to Socionics from there can be somewhat challenging, because you have to "unlearn" a few things, in order to grasp the new information and implement it into your thought system. I suppose Socionics just looked like a huge wall of Te information, something I did not want to deal with. An ILE friend of mine, however, got me into Socionics. My Fe warmed up my Te skepticism I guess, haha.

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    People are skeptical of more than two subtypes but I think determinating DCNH is actually more useful than choosing between the two main subtypes.

    These IEI-Ni and IEI-Fe subtypes are good for people who clearly fit into them. So Dominant IEI (IEI-Fe) and Harmonizing IEI (IEI-Ni) will have no problem choosing the subtype. But as I see it, in DCNH system you are probably either Creative (IEI-Ne) or Normalizing (IEI-Fi) subtype and that's why you can't decide.

    At least it worked for me. I felt like I was often behaving like extraverted person but still I was too lost in thought, too irrational to be Fe-IEI. I seemed not to rely so much on Fe but more on Ti. And on the other hand, in public I was able to behave in a really open, even goofy manner, too extraverted to be Ni-IEI. So I ended up being Ne-IEI which at first seemed weird for me. What my ignoring function has to do with me? But then I started to realize that it really made sense.

    So if you want to specify your subtype, I suggest you should check out the DCNH system.

    I don't know if it helps but:

    If you're extraverted introvert (contact), you could be Dominant or Creative subtype.
    And if you're introverted introvert (distant), you could be Normalizing or Harmonizing subtype.

    If you feel more rational (terminal), chances are you're Dominant or Normalizing.
    If you're irrational (initial), you are either Creative or Harmonizing.

    You'd better check the original descriptions and think about it on your own. It may seem complicated but it makes sense after all.

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    I am leaning toward Fe for you @SisOfNight just based on catwoman, if I were choosing between Fe and Ni. Nice touch!

    Edit: I like when people just jump into the Fe-y

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    Why sigh?

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    Ni subtypes are more contained, Fe subtypes more explosive. That's the best way to understand it.

    I'm a very contained person. It's hard for me to just let go lmao.

    All IEIs are sort of faggy and big-hearted though and have empathy for the "loser" and social outcast. But we can also be really cold and cutting and like tear into somebody psychologically, like analyzing them and making them feel hurt by it without realizing it. I do this a lot to ppl even though I had a hard time catching the ball in gym class. They think I'm so serious when I do it, and I guess I am. It's like the way IEIs throw their rocks at people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theron View Post
    People are skeptical of more than two subtypes but I think determinating DCNH is actually more useful than choosing between the two main subtypes.

    These IEI-Ni and IEI-Fe subtypes are good for people who clearly fit into them. So Dominant IEI (IEI-Fe) and Harmonizing IEI (IEI-Ni) will have no problem choosing the subtype. But as I see it, in DCNH system you are probably either Creative (IEI-Ne) or Normalizing (IEI-Fi) subtype and that's why you can't decide.

    At least it worked for me. I felt like I was often behaving like extraverted person but still I was too lost in thought, too irrational to be Fe-IEI. I seemed not to rely so much on Fe but more on Ti. And on the other hand, in public I was able to behave in a really open, even goofy manner, too extraverted to be Ni-IEI. So I ended up being Ne-IEI which at first seemed weird for me. What my ignoring function has to do with me? But then I started to realize that it really made sense.

    So if you want to specify your subtype, I suggest you should check out the DCNH system.

    I don't know if it helps but:

    If you're extraverted introvert (contact), you could be Dominant or Creative subtype.
    And if you're introverted introvert (distant), you could be Normalizing or Harmonizing subtype.

    If you feel more rational (terminal), chances are you're Dominant or Normalizing.
    If you're irrational (initial), you are either Creative or Harmonizing.

    You'd better check the original descriptions and think about it on your own. It may seem complicated but it makes sense after all.
    I'm still getting into DCNH but get the basic idea, I'd say. Nice that someone mentioned it since it seems like a good subtype theory, imo, but isn't as popular with many here. But yeah, while it makes sense for, say, creative IEI to be Ne subtype IEI, is that how it works? Whatever your strong functions are determines your subtype depending on your DCNH subtype? Like, can't someone be IEI-Ti instead of Fi for normalizing?

    Gulenko apparently recently finished 64 subtype descriptions for his DCNH subtype theory which is apparently currently in translation. The people on some FB page have given the names for the DCNH subtype but seemed to alter it a bit. For example, IEI-D was apparently called 'Derisive' by Gulenko before but the people on that page named it "Quizzer" because they thought it was too negative, haha.

    "Intuitive Ethical Introvert DCNH
    <<Dreamer>>

    1. Dominant subtype (code DHD)
    Dreamer - Quizzer
    2. Creative subtype (code DHC)
    Dreamer - Admirer
    3. Normalizing subtype (code DHN)
    Dreamer- Henotic
    4. Harmonizing subtype (code DHH)
    Dreamer- Visionary"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    I'm still getting into DCNH but get the basic idea, I'd say. Nice that someone mentioned it since it seems like a good subtype theory, imo, but isn't as popular with many here. But yeah, while it makes sense for, say, creative IEI to be Ne subtype IEI, is that how it works? Whatever your strong functions are determines your subtype depending on your DCNH subtype? Like, can't someone be IEI-Ti instead of Fi for normalizing?

    Gulenko apparently recently finished 64 subtype descriptions for his DCNH subtype theory which is apparently currently in translation. The people on some FB page have given the names for the DCNH subtype but seemed to alter it a bit. For example, IEI-D was apparently called 'Derisive' by Gulenko before but the people on that page named it "Quizzer" because they thought it was too negative, haha.

    "Intuitive Ethical Introvert DCNH
    <<Dreamer>>

    1. Dominant subtype (code DHD)
    Dreamer - Quizzer
    2. Creative subtype (code DHC)
    Dreamer - Admirer
    3. Normalizing subtype (code DHN)
    Dreamer- Henotic
    4. Harmonizing subtype (code DHH)
    Dreamer- Visionary"
    I have looked into the basic descriptions of the DCNH theory, and I would say I am the "Creative" subtype (followed by H).
    However, I am also unsure whether this automatically means I am INFp-Ne. Sounds rather… weird to me. I don't feel like my focus is on Ne.

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    Welcome to the borums! Not a typo-- this place can get boring-- but there are some good articles and old threads here if you look and some cool people.

    Ni subtype is a lot more one-sided in its Ni, obviously. May have a richer inner world, stronger intuition (which can also cause more doubt) and more naturally analytical but are bigger mystical day dreamers than the Fe subtype who will have an easier time manifesting their vision or ideals in the outside world than Ni subtype. Fe subtype would probably be more focused on communicating or expressing their visions/creations than Ni subtype. D-subtype (Fe/Te subtype in DCNH) is said to be what most or at least many famous people are, too. I have seen Carl Jung used as an example of Ni subtype and Martin Luther King as Fe subtype which I can agree with even though I'm usually skeptical of type exemplars (I wouldn't solely base my understanding of the difference from these though but may be worth a look).



    Nice. Jung also talks a bit about introversion/extroversion in the beginning. Says that there are people who are pretty balanced both from within and from without, I believe. There are also, of course, extreme introverts and extroverts.


    Lol@MLK quickly getting tired of the applause in the beginning.

    I currently identify better with the Fe subtype although, when I take a test, I'll usually get no subtype but the score is still slightly higher on Fe, just not enough to give me another subtype (last time it was by one point). I'm not mainly determining my subtype from tests though and wouldn't advise it. I guess reading descriptions, looking at how I've generally been and different subtype theories helped. It may be easier to tell which you are after you look into other subtype theories like DCNH, Inert/Contact and accepting/producing. You can find those under the article tab and under subtypes. I think this explains it well. Here's something brief from the vertical subtypes article:

    The first vertical block is inert - it gradually accumulates information and is reluctant to spend it, so it is more socially passive. Second one is contact - it actively expends the information thus interacting with environment more intensively.
    That may be a good way to differentiate the subtypes. If I'm not mistaken, basically, Ni subtype will charge more of their energy and will hesitate spending it whereas Fe subtype, while still technically introverted, will seek to spend more of their energy. You should look at how you've generally been probably. I've also become a lot more reserved but my moving out of a familiar environment into unfamiliar ones that are pretty dead also has a hand in that. It can be hard for many Ni doms to be active without an outside stimulus or active environment especially when they're unfamiliar with it but when I was in a familiar environment, I was the one rounding up people to do things around the neighborhood or even outside of it sometimes and was often outside.

    Filatova differentiates Ni and Fe subtype VI-wise here:

    Facial Features: The INFp has dreamy eyes -- that is the most striking and common feature. The intuitive subtypes have rather elongated faces and upward angled eyebrows. The feeling subtypes have large eyes and a large space in between the eyes just like Melanie Thierry. An often pale face, with decentralized features, and a thin build are the characteristic symptoms of the INFp.


    Melanie Thierry:
    Attachment 4082

    Haha, according to her subtype thingy, IDK. It seems I fit both subtypes' facial characteristics well.
    Younger me:

    Attachment 4081

    Ooooh, while I'm talking about VI, I think @Estel looks pretty IEI in her avatar too.

    Ah, also, I have Filatova's 16 subtypes description of IEI. It's pretty brief though so may not be too helpful especially for someone new to the theory (I'm not even ready for 16subtypes of IEI ) but if you want it, ask.
    Last edited by Olly From Wally World; 08-14-2014 at 11:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    I have looked into the basic descriptions of the DCNH theory, and I would say I am the "Creative" subtype (followed by H).
    However, I am also unsure whether this automatically means I am INFp-Ne. Sounds rather… weird to me. I don't feel like my focus is on Ne.
    I'm not completely sure either. Hmmm, well an IEI with strengthened Pe (extraverted perceiving) will seem more ExxP than other IEIs but not as Exxp as an Exxp. Still sort of falls under Fe subtype IEI though, at least according to Filatova. D and C fall under Fe subtype and N and H under Ni subtype for her. @Elina can maybe chime in. She identifies as an IEI-Creative. Harmonizing IEI is the more typical passive, soft and daydreamy IEI.

    Here's creative subtype IEI descriptions from Filatova. May or may not be helpful. Look at your own risk:
    Creative subtypes: (IEI-Fe)

    IEI-ILE [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Insightful and perceptive. May be a good administrator, but it's hard for him to maintain consistency. Generally positive in his emotions, but only when his interactions bring real benefit.

    IEI-SLE [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Defensive, easily says no to others. Creative and full of ideas. Detailed but not active in work. His weakest trait is analysis, and a cooking talent.

    IEI-SEE [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Philosophical mindset. Very assertive and pushy compared to most other N types. He mainly encounters the negatives of the outside world with assertiveness. His weakness is keeping long term relationships due to his egoistical pushiness.

    IEI-IEE [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Comes up with a lot of ideas, but generally meaningless ones. Consciously tries to execute tasks in an efficient manner. Chances are that he's a bad cook and a poor homemaker.
    Last edited by Olly From Wally World; 08-14-2014 at 11:24 AM.

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    Sorry for the info dump. Take your time but this may be good too. I think one should keep in mind the natural dichotomies of their type and that if you differ from the normal one, which would be harmonizing in our case, you won't be as extreme in the IEI's natural dichotomy (distant, initiating and connecting). So if you're a H-IEI, you will be probably extreme in each of those aforementioned three or it'll be more obvious where you stand on each dichotomy whereas a C-IEI may be more balanced with contact and ignoring? Or something like that. I think, lol.
    Three pairs of dichotomies

    First dichotomy: contact/distance.
    The first pole indicates the predominance of the need for contact, and the second the need to maintain distance. Into the contact category will fall clearly expressed extroverts as well as extrovertedintroverts. Distant will be clearly expressed introverts, but also introverted extroverts – those extroverts who avoid intensive contact. The scale of vertness is thus split into four gradations.
    Second dichotomy: terminating/initiating.
    I understand terminating as the ability to finish what was started and a tendency towards regulation. Initiating, as the opposite tendency to initiate and to easily move on to something else, with corresponding disorder in matters and affairs. As you see, these are the concrete definitions of the usual dichotomy rationality/ irrationality. It would be incorrect to think that in the house of any rational reigns pristine order, that it clearly plans all, and that all irrationals throw everything to the side and are burdened by planning. In reality, two intervening gradations are frequently encountered between these extreme poles.
    In the terminating pole belong clearly expressed rationals and orderly irrationals. Initiating behavior is possessed by clearly expressed irrationals and disorderly rationals.
    And the third additional dichotomy is connecting/ignoring.
    The level of sensitivity to changes in the environment is assumed to be the basis of this scale. Connectors are very sensitive to such changes, whereas ignorers, as the name suggests, are capable of turning no attention towards this.
    This polarity is the subtype refinement of the classical dichotomy dynamic/static. Combining these three scales, we obtain the following four subtypes:

    • contact, terminal, connecting - dominant subtype (D);
    • contact, initial, ignoring - creative subtype (C);
    • distant, terminal, ignoring - normalizing subtype (N);
    • distant, initial, connecting - harmonizing subtype (H).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Sorry for the info dump. Take your time but this may be good too. I think one should keep in mind the natural dichotomies of their type and that if you differ from the normal one, which would be harmonizing in our case, you won't be as extreme in the IEI's natural dichotomy (distant, initiating and connecting). So if you're a H-IEI, you will be probably extreme in each of those aforementioned three or it'll be more obvious where you stand on each dichotomy whereas a C-IEI may be more balanced with contact and ignoring? Or something like that. I think, lol.
    Thank you for all the information!

    The comparison with the dichotomies helped me the most, as of yet.
    I am truly distant, initial, and connecting - the harmonizing subtype.

    I think I feel connected to the creative subtype, because I used to slip into it whenever I was working on a project for which I needed a lot of creative energy – though this was never my default mode. Usually, I reverted back to my harmonizing self.

    In this manner, I can identify myself a little with the description of IEI-SLE.
    Could you give me Filatova's Harmonizing IEI descriptions, please?

    Finally, I do have an elongated face and upward angled eyebrows, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Thank you for all the information!

    The comparison with the dichotomies helped me the most, as of yet.
    I am truly distant, initial, and connecting - the harmonizing subtype.

    I think I feel connected to the creative subtype, because I used to slip into it whenever I was working on a project for which I needed a lot of creative energy – though this was never my default mode. Usually, I reverted back to my harmonizing self.

    In this manner, I can identify myself a little with the description of IEI-SLE.
    Could you give me Filatova's Harmonizing IEI descriptions, please?

    Finally, I do have an elongated face and upward angled eyebrows, haha.
    Sure, glad it helped.

    Harmonizing subtypes (IEI-Ni)

    IEI-SEI [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Probably the most unreliable and indecisive of all INFp's. He may be overweight, and definitely pale. Great with metaphors and imagery, but a poor planner.

    IEI-IEI [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Very wise. Can predict the development of a situation even if he has never been in one like that himself. Systematic, tries to be a good worker, but generally needs to be in a routine to be efficient.

    IEI-ILI [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Very artistic, and creative in writing. Analytical but more so in making sense of people, and with objects. Doesn't bother maintaining his body, but is still rather thin naturally. His weakest trait is task execution.

    IEI-SLI [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Changes decisions, comes late to meetings, and is very flexible and open-minded. Likely has an artistic, musical or writing talent. Poor at seeing the big picture of a job or of work done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Sure, glad it helped.

    Harmonizing subtypes (IEI-Ni)

    IEI-SEI [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Probably the most unreliable and indecisive of all INFp's. He may be overweight, and definitely pale. Great with metaphors and imagery, but a poor planner.

    IEI-IEI [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Very wise. Can predict the development of a situation even if he has never been in one like that himself. Systematic, tries to be a good worker, but generally needs to be in a routine to be efficient.

    IEI-ILI [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Very artistic, and creative in writing. Analytical but more so in making sense of people, and with objects. Doesn't bother maintaining his body, but is still rather thin naturally. His weakest trait is task execution.

    IEI-SLI [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Changes decisions, comes late to meetings, and is very flexible and open-minded. Likely has an artistic, musical or writing talent. Poor at seeing the big picture of a job or of work done.
    Okay, just to make sure – what does (-) and (+) stand for, respectively?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Okay, just to make sure – what does (-) and (+) stand for, respectively?
    Descriptions were given to me by @HERO

    Introverted intuition - is the ability to bring out of memory the data that is most relevant for a specific moment. It allows one to imagine things, to write creatively, to use metaphors - and more practically to carry on a conversation skillfully. Introverted intuition is the skill of the brilliant writer or painter to create worlds inside themselves, to describe colorfully and metaphorically, and to connect to the realm of the archetypes for wisdom. Introverted intuition is a world in itself. Developing this function is probably the hardest out of all 8 since introverted intuition is so elusive. One can start by drawing things never seen before, thinking up stories and situations that never happened. Play with associations--as the conversation progresses, cling on to key words and build on them, allow a word "Caribbean" to bring a world of associations with it and a great number of questions that you could ask to carry on the conversation. For the intuitively advanced I would recommend writing down dreams and sudden thoughts, learning meditation and attempting to view these dreams and thoughts as hints for changing your life. Many times my dreams advised me against a certain person, against a decision, or in favor of a certain attitude. Introverted intuition surprisingly also allows one to plan and forecast events -- I'm not sure how this trait relates to the other skills that introverted intuition grants, but it is a fact that strong introverted intuits are also great planners, forecasters and futurists -- relating past trends to future trends and etc.

    Ni (+) -- Holistic internal intuition is great at detailed, big picture planning and the holistic view of the situation from the point of view of internal archetypes that is wisdom.

    Ni (-) -- Differentiated internal intuition plans strategically with no attention to detail. It bestows a knack for metaphors and artistic imagination.


    Extraverted feeling - is the actual emotional affect, here and now. Extraverted feeling is directed at people, at objects, and at the outside world. If a friend is leaving the country the extraverted feeler will say GOOD FOR YOU!!! HAVE FUN!!! The introverted feeler will say "I will miss you". The extravert expresses the emotions that the object is likely to feel, whereas the introverted feeler expresses personal subjective emotions. When passing a homeless person the extraverted feeler is more likely to give 10$ and walk on. The introverted feeler will give 1$ but is likely to start volunteering at a shelter. Of course these are extreme examples, but I hope they deliver this difference between having a strong affect motivate you in the here and now, and having a distinct long-term subjective feeling decide your life strategy. Extraverted feelers express their affect to influence others, and are influenced by their affect themselves. Their affect may change daily. From loving to hating, back to loving, all towards the very same person, often in the course of one day. The strength of the affect compensates this seeming lack of integrity. This function allows one to attract the attention of a group, to motivate and influence an individual through the induction of affect. An acting school could do wanders in the development of this function. Practicing facial expressions of emotion: laughter, joy, anger, disappointment and the other components of the spectrum of emotion will help one develop this function.

    Fe (+) -- Holistic extraverted feeling is very positive, loving and great at capturing the attention of a group. Carriers of this function are criticized for being equally loving to their spouse, friend and acquaintances.

    Fe (-) -- Differentiated extraverted feeling is better at motivating, and showing negativity. These people are very emotionally powerful, able to control and command with expressiveness. They are criticized for being loving one moment and hating the next.


    Extraverted sensing - this is one of the most immediately valuable functions. Although the types with a "-" coloring of this function generally are just very detailed, practical and good at saying NO, the types with the "+" coloring allow a far wider range of skills. The first tenant of the (+) extraverted sensing (power drive) function is "the more space you occupy, via assertiveness, the more space and respect you are given". The ability to tell the golden middle and the ability to shrink and extend your assertiveness according to the situation is probably the greatest talent of the extraverted sensing function . . .

    Se (+) -- Holistic view of extraverted sensing allows for an adequate judging of the overall power stance of each individual around. It makes the possessor very aggressive to the weak and submissive to the strong, demanding and assertive.

    Se (-) -- Differentiated view of extraverted sensing entails a defensive stance. A person doesn't try to take up someone else's space, but rather defends his own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Descriptions were given to me by @HERO



    Okay, thank you very much again! This was gold.

    So, I am either IEI-SEI or IEI-ILI, hihi. Yay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Okay, thank you very much again! This was gold.

    So, I am either IEI-SEI or IEI-ILI, hihi. Yay.
    So glad it helped. Well, if you're right, it's safe to say you're Ni subtype and H-IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    So glad it helped. Well, if you're right, it's safe to say you're Ni subtype and H-IEI.
    Witch avatar confirmed and final! Our coven is growing, we must add subcovens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    So glad it helped. Well, if you're right, it's safe to say you're Ni subtype and H-IEI.
    Yeah, right!

    By the way,

    Could you give me the descriptions of:


    a) ILI-IEI

    b) Harmonizing ENTp & Normalizing ENTp

    ?

    Please, I am curious, and I could help out a friend!


    P.S: As the Ni subtype, am I automatically the "inert" subtype in the inert/contact dichotomy?
    Last edited by Olimpia; 08-14-2014 at 04:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Sure, glad it helped.

    Harmonizing subtypes (IEI-Ni)

    IEI-SEI [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Probably the most unreliable and indecisive of all INFp's. He may be overweight, and definitely pale. Great with metaphors and imagery...
    Olly, could you also post the Dominant subtypes (IEI-Fe) please? I'd greatly appreciate it! Just like SisOfNight, I'm also trying to figure out my subtype, and I relate most to IEI-Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Thank you for all the information!

    The comparison with the dichotomies helped me the most, as of yet.
    I am truly distant, initial, and connecting - the harmonizing subtype.

    I think I feel connected to the creative subtype, because I used to slip into it whenever I was working on a project for which I needed a lot of creative energy – though this was never my default mode. Usually, I reverted back to my harmonizing self.

    In this manner, I can identify myself a little with the description of IEI-SLE.
    Could you give me Filatova's Harmonizing IEI descriptions, please?

    Finally, I do have an elongated face and upward angled eyebrows, haha.
    Just make sure you read those dichotomies from the perspective of "as far as IEIs go." These are subtype dichotomies. As an introvert, you might naturally relate more to the distant dichotomy if reading it from a general sense, but in comparison to other IEIs you might be more contact. Maybe that helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Hmmm, well an IEI with strengthened Pe (extraverted perceiving) will seem more ExxP than other IEIs but not as Exxp as an Exxp. Still sort of falls under Fe subtype IEI though, at least according to Filatova. D and C fall under Fe subtype and N and H under Ni subtype for her.
    Yes, it may be an option. But sticking to the two subtypes, we could as well divide it into intuitive subtype vs. ethical subtype. According to this, D & N would fall into IEI-Fe category, and C & H would be closer to IEI-Ni.
    I read somewhere that Gulenko's descriptions of Fe subtype are about D-IEI and Ni subtype are about C-IEI.
    And Fe subtype described by Meged/Ovcharov was more like N-IEI and Ni subtype was H-IEI.

    Here are these descriptions:
    Ni Intuitive subtype

    Victor Gulenko (IEI-Ne creative)
    Facial expression is typically interrogative, and they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative. Their line of behaviour is frequently passive. Romantic spirits. They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions. They can be optimistic. They shrink away from conflict situations and support compromises. They are restrained in their clothing, elegant and refined. They can fulfill the functions of an abstract thinker, work in psychology and psychotherapy.

    Meged/Ovcharov (IEI-Ni harmonizing)
    The intuitive subtype appears as a quiet, tactful, languid and diffident individual. They seem torn off from reality, inert and poorly adapted to life. However, such impressions are erroneous, for they possess a fine intuition, which aids them in establishing useful connections and obtaining support from influential people. Seem externally serene but sentimentally are disposed to experience moodiness and bouts of melancholy. While their voice at times seems monotonous they often induce a light surprise, even full interest, from the interlocutor. Outwardly are pensive, slightly strained/intense.. Prone to emanate sadness masked in sardonic irony.

    Fe Ethical subtype

    Victor Gulenko (IEI-Fe dominant)
    Flatters and is charming and communicable. If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down. They will mobilize well in dangerous situations. Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour. They easily manipulate by intonation and voice; can work successfully as a journalist --- They easily succeed in enticing the person they talk to. Outwardly they can appear extravagant; frequently takes a bohemian and bright form.

    Meged/Ovcharov (IEI-Fi normalizing)
    The ethical subtype provides the impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually look inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor allowing them to list their problems and failures while smiling. Are ironic, crafty, unpredictably and inconsistent in behaviour and conversation. Creating original contrasts, they can unexpectedly prick and then just as quickly embrace/kiss. Artistic and charming; are eloquent in dialogue, occasionally portraying shades of familiarity and impudence. They’re generally affable, kind and careful. Easily draw attention and thereby attract people; talent towards persuasion.
    And talking about the V.I. aspect:
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...on_of_Subtypes
    It's just a hypothesis but according to this, D & H IEI have more roundish (or square) face shape and C & N have elongated faces (rectangular/oval).
    I don't know how reliable it is but as a C subtype I have elongated face too.

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    I am partial to using two subtypes since they are simple (intuitive and ethical) right now and there is enough variation of personality in those to explain differences if you are into that. The rest just seems to dilute the whole theory into something else. A couple of people seem to agree that I would fit IEI-IEI but when you start getting into IEI-SLE or IEI-SLI it just seems like people are trying to fit into "Cinderella's slipper" (metaphorically) when they don't. <--- I know, I know I keep saying this...

    Bottom line is Ni is base function for IEI and if that is not your strongest function look into another type?

    Must add Fe...






    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=IEI_domain

    IEI Declaration

    Your typical magical IEI.

    Ni - The Force: We shall see all.
    Fe: We shall be all to all.
    Si: We shall not brush our hair or wash the dishes. Only when we feel like it.
    Te: We shall challenge your dowdy conventional ways--taxes don't really need to be filed!
    Se: We shall go forth and conquer. Maybe.
    Ti: We shall know all. Or at least, we try.
    Ne: We think opportunities are "okay" but the all-knowing Ni rules supreme.
    Fi: We think saying please and thank you is "okay" but your manipulative backstabbing is "bullshit."
    Last edited by Aylen; 08-14-2014 at 07:14 PM.

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    @Aylen

    Otherwise, Sis, welcome to the dark socionics jungle, you'll meet all kind of creatures here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    @Aylen

    Otherwise, Sis, welcome to the dark socionics jungle, you'll meet all kind of creatures here...






    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Yeah, right!

    By the way,

    Could you give me the descriptions of:


    a) ILI-IEI

    b) Harmonizing ENTp & Normalizing ENTp

    ?

    Please, I am curious, and I could help out a friend!


    P.S: As the Ni subtype, am I automatically the "inert" subtype in the inert/contact dichotomy?
    Oh, sorry. I only have the IEI subtypes.

    Well, subtype-wise, I was asking you which one you fit best. Rigidly, yes, if you are Ni subtype, you would be inert. If you feel as if you're contact, you could be another subtype. Naturally, IEIs will probably lean more towards inert but, as I've said and as Elina said, it may be good to take that into account while determining subtype. A contact IEI may identify with both but perhaps lean more towards contact, at least in comparison to truly inert IEIs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volatility View Post
    Olly, could you also post the Dominant subtypes (IEI-Fe) please? I'd greatly appreciate it! Just like SisOfNight, I'm also trying to figure out my subtype, and I relate most to IEI-Fe.
    Sure! Also, welcome!

    Dominant subtypes: (IEI-Fe)

    IEI-ESE [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Very emotionally positive, but assertive. Oscillates between aggression and positivity. May try to see reality from different perspectives, but I doubt he succeeds.

    IEI-EIE [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Can be constantly rude and mean to loved ones -- especially the same-sex parent. Can be reckless, but at the end of the day always comes back to those that love him.

    IEI-LIE [Fe (+) and Ni (-) and Se (+)]
    Very cheerful, attempts to maintain an orderly, clean home. Tries to be an analytical person, but usually any analytical conversation turns into an emotional monologue. Usually doesn't say no to others, but expects immediate reciprocation.

    IEI-LSE [Fe (-) and Ni (+) and Se (-)]
    Rather negative, and demands everything to be done efficiently. His weakest trait is analysis and a sense in cooking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theron View Post
    Yes, it may be an option. But sticking to the two subtypes, we could as well divide it into intuitive subtype vs. ethical subtype. According to this, D & N would fall into IEI-Fe category, and C & H would be closer to IEI-Ni.
    I read somewhere that Gulenko's descriptions of Fe subtype are about D-IEI and Ni subtype are about C-IEI.
    And Fe subtype described by Meged/Ovcharov was more like N-IEI and Ni subtype was H-IEI.

    Here are these descriptions:


    And talking about the V.I. aspect:
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...on_of_Subtypes
    It's just a hypothesis but according to this, D & H IEI have more roundish (or square) face shape and C & N have elongated faces (rectangular/oval).
    I don't know how reliable it is but as a C subtype I have elongated face too.
    Hmmm, is that even really the subtype descriptions? I've seen these and I think it seems or at least was said that people took apart the descriptions from two different authors and tried to fit them into subtypes. Also, while we could use different ways of categorizing Fe and Ni subtype, I'm thinking Filatova meant that D and C are the more extroverted IEIs so they fall under extraverted subtype, and N and H the more introverted IEIs so they fall under the introverted subtype. And the VI thingy is interesting enough, will look into. Thanks for sharing.

    While I like DCNH, I agree with @Aylen that too many subtypes can seem a bit too complex than necessary at times (more so with the 16 subtypes part) and perhaps, as a beginner, it's better to take it slow, haha. Sometimes it's better to go with what's simplest in the beginning. I know that others could use this to rationalize how they are IEI when they may really not be and should be looking into something else though. 16 subtype-wise, it hasn't really been useful for myself but some people like it.
    Last edited by Olly From Wally World; 08-14-2014 at 09:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    While I like DCNH, I agree with @Aylen that too many subtypes can seem a bit too complex than necessary at times (more so with the 16 subtypes part) and perhaps, as a beginner, it's better to take it slow, haha. Sometimes it's better to go with what's simplest in the beginning. I know that others could use this to rationalize how they are IEI when they may really not be and should be looking into something else though. 16 subtype-wise, it hasn't really been useful for myself but some people like it.
    Haha I agree, sorry for theory overload @SisOfNight But that just bothers me.. Why should we accept the existence of the Fe subtype either? Wouldn't EIE rationalize how they're IEI-Fe? I don't see what the two subtype division brings to understanding of variety between one type. Only the extraversion/introversion thing? Then.. what's the point?

    What if I posess an IEI psyche AND I just feel like mix of two subtypes and none of them completely? And besides that, I totally relate to IEIs' experiences and thoughts, I match my personality to model A, I see my PoLR, my dual seeking, HA, etc. of INFp in myself. So it seems that one can only be either pure IEI or ENFj-ish IEI, right? OK, who knows, maybe I'm actually some kind of ILE rationalizing she's IEI.

    I can agree now that DCNH may not be useful for self-typing but it really helps to type others (or rather: to not be too stereotypical with typing). This theory is fun, at least it explains why not all your duals appear similarly, and why you are able to get along with some particular ESTjs.

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    I think DCNH or subtypes in general need to only be taken into account once sure of the base type. If this is done correctly first, I see no problem with it.

    Edit: I do stick to DCNH and not the 16 subtype thing as well for now, only because there's not enough information out on the latter, at least yet, for it to make enough sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theron View Post
    Haha I agree, sorry for theory overload @SisOfNight But that just bothers me.. Why should we accept the existence of the Fe subtype either? Wouldn't EIE rationalize how they're IEI-Fe? I don't see what the two subtype division brings to understanding of variety between one type. Only the extraversion/introversion thing? Then.. what's the point?

    What if I posess an IEI psyche AND I just feel like mix of two subtypes and none of them completely? And besides that, I totally relate to IEIs' experiences and thoughts, I match my personality to model A, I see my PoLR, my dual seeking, HA, etc. of INFp in myself. So it seems that one can only be either pure IEI or ENFj-ish IEI, right? OK, who knows, maybe I'm actually some kind of ILE rationalizing she's IEI.

    I can agree now that DCNH may not be useful for self-typing but it really helps to type others (or rather: to not be too stereotypical with typing). This theory is fun, at least it explains why not all your duals appear similarly, and why you are able to get along with some particular ESTjs.
    Ha, I have no problem with theories!

    Are you identifying yourself as either the Ni-Subtype or Fe-Subtype? Why, why not?

    At last, you meant ESTps, right?

    Oh, in relation to ESTps: I have heard that the ESTp-Ti is best matched with the INFp-Fe, and the ESTp-Se with the INFp-Ni.
    What are your thoughts on that, everyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Ha, I have no problem with theories!

    Are you identifying yourself as either the Ni-Subtype or Fe-Subtype? Why, why not?

    At last, you meant ESTps, right?

    Oh, in relation to ESTps: I have heard that the ESTp-Ti is best matched with the INFp-Fe, and the ESTp-Se with the INFp-Ni.
    What are your thoughts on that, everyone?
    Definitely.
    I also definitely see the DCNH compatibility theory to be true. Gulenko says D goes with N and C with H.
    I'm pretty sure my ex was harmonzing while I'm creative.
    And I've had interaction with a normalizing SLE or two.
    No fun at all

    Edit: I'm working on typing up a transcript of a Guelnko interview where he says that if you have two duals but one is a terminal subtye, and the other initial, dualization is either very difficult or not possible.
    I'm turning into a Gulenko geek
    Last edited by Ron Mexican; 08-14-2014 at 11:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SisOfNight View Post
    Are you identifying yourself as either the Ni-Subtype or Fe-Subtype? Why, why not?

    At last, you meant ESTps, right?
    I'm more intuitive.

    No, I ment our conflictors ESTj. As Elina told you - the DCNH has its own duality. What is more, it influences relations with all types. So in theory, if you meet ESTj-Se, chances are he won't be as conflicting with you as ESTj-Te.

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    @Elina, I'm dying to know how would you describe H-SLE, what to look for? In comparison to N maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theron View Post
    @Elina, I'm dying to know how would you describe H-SLE, what to look for? In comparison to N maybe?
    PMing you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Ooooh, while I'm talking about VI, I think @Estel looks pretty IEI in her avatar too.
    Why thank you.

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