ENTp and ESTp type descriptions

[FDG]

Since I'm bored, I wrote down this.

ENTp

You'll probably meet him at class. He comes in two version: one looks like the Niels Bohr pic you can find at the end of this topic. He's the intuitive subtype. The other one looks like a dreamier, more abstract-oriented, possibly smarter but less attentive to his apperance version of you. Logical subtype. Duchovny pic.

Let's first talk about the N. You and him probably agree on everything in principle. He'll argue with you just for fun. Making up points that are absolutely unrealistic. He doesn't really belive in them though, so no problem. He'll think that you take arguments way too seriusly, you'll think that he just doesn't get done anything in life. Both of you will know that it's better not to press Fi points. If there are feeling types in the nearbies, you can be useful to both of you by repelling every emotionally-related question with a Se attack. He can also be pretty sociable, but too passive and friendly for your own taste.

Bottom line: this guy is of no use for you, except for wasting time arguing and telling him how to get girls.

Now the L subtype. He's really useful in the classroom. He can give in-depth explanation that are easy for you to understand. You'll think that his life revolves around giving those speeches: not far from the truth. He can make a good friend of yours but you won't keep up with his abstract crap, and he won't keep up with your phyisical one. Debates with him can go on for hours, but they're fun. Supposing an equal level of intelligence, both of you are going to have similar levels of wit.

Bottom line: listen to his explanations, assimilate and incorporate the info into your system, and move on with life. Maybe a debate or two for fun, but keep in mind that winning is hard.

Both of them aren't dangerous at all, but they're not particularly funny either, so it's up to you to decide whether to befriend them. Likely end: you'll forget about him as soon as he gets out of sight.

Pics.

N subtype:



L subtype:

[FDG]

ESTp

Two versions for this kind too: one will constantly touch his balls and yell, another one will stare with an aquiline gaze at everything, silently, and with a certain force field around him. If you're on this site, it's likely that you're of the second kind, but who knows. Wash your hands sometimes if you pertain to the former cathegory.

With the first one, the strategy is to strike first. Since the encounter will likely be at a sporting event, do not let him get ahead of you in the game and declare yourself winner in the fewest feasible moves. This version has also a pretty lame , so he's likely to fake a lot of crap in order to win. Point out everything to the refree to lower his support. He's also really really critical of everything and an unhappy guy, many times. Probably popular, but you'll see that most people are just scared of him.

Bottom line: Useless jock, get rid of his presence. You won't hear about him after 20 years of age: either he's started working at some crappy low-level firm, or he's become a criminal (in prison).

The second one is your friend. You will understand each other immediatly and likely help each other, whether it's school-related matters, or sports-related. Surely, there is going to be some competition, and probably a lot of arguments, especially when both of you are in the same group. However, since you know each other's motives, weak points etc none of the two will prevail, and when you associate with him one-on-one everything will fit toghether.

Bottom line: the friendship can be pretty strong, especially if the contact is somewhat sporadic, but not too much. Since both of you know each other goals, fights for long-term agreements are unlikely.

As for the pics;

S subtype:



(WARNING: PAY EXTREME ATTENTION TO THIS SMILE, INDICATES HORRIBLE LIES AND MANIPULATION)

L subtype

[oyburger]

(WARNING: PAY EXTREME ATTENTION TO THIS SMILE, INDICATES HORRIBLE LIES AND MANIPULATION)

Thats pretty funny

[FDG]

(WARNING: PAY EXTREME ATTENTION TO THIS SMILE, INDICATES HORRIBLE LIES AND MANIPULATION)

Thats pretty funny

The depletion of your bank account following that smile ain't going to!!

Anyway

ISFj

If she's a relative, you're going to cringe every time she opens her mouth trying to control your cousin/mother/whatever. If she's a girl of the same age, you'll want to hit on her. If she's a professor, you'll probably think that she's okay, even if a bit too strict.

First of all, let's analyze the girl of your age. A strange imperturbability is her paramount charateristic, united to hotness. You aren't going to make her laugh, just embarass her. You aren't going to make her interested in anything you do: just confuse her. You aren't going to get anything good from the relationship, except possibly affection and nice sex, but at the price of constantly suppressing your personality.
It's likely that on the first dates/when you're giving her the first bits of attention, you'll seem to hit off pretty fast. However, you'll soon manage to make her flare up offended. Well, you know what? This is what expect you for the whole relationship, if both parties do not suppress their personalities. You dress sloppily. You don't work enough. You don't have enough money. You're fat. You're messy. You can't do anything. You're loud. You're rude. Repeat *100000.

Bottom line: Be honest with yourself and just don't try to hit on them. I'm sure you are able to clearly recognize the type of girl I'm talking about.

Now, the relative. Well, here you'd just better shut up. It's pretty impossible to be tactful: she'll perceive your natural tone of voice as disrepectful. Only if you're in an EXTREMELY happy mood, or EXTREMELY ill, you'll manage not to irritate her. Of course, this won't stop you from wanting to always have the last word. Drama assured.
However, if you control a bit your personality, the relationship can be okay, even if still on grounds that are more formal than familiar. The only function you can use without problems is , around them. Sounds boring? It is.
An especially sensitive spot that you have to control, is when you are recipient of criticism. Which, with an ISFj, is always. Try not to get depressed: your skills are all there, but she prefers to emphasize the negative parts. It's not personal.

Bottom line: Spend a lot of time out of home.

Third, and last, the prof. You desperately want to show her that you can do things. She, however, adopts the same methods of emphasizing the negative side of things. Just do strictly what is required without trying to impress her with or skills, rest assured the start of an argument which is going to end with her imposing her authority on you. Since she's above anyway, you can't really do anything.

Bottom line: Avoid confrontation, do the homework, get a good grade (they're objective, still).

[oyburger]

(WARNING: PAY EXTREME ATTENTION TO THIS SMILE, INDICATES HORRIBLE LIES AND MANIPULATION)

Thats pretty funny

The depletion of your bank account following that smile ain't going to!!

Its funny because its true.

[FDG]

How's my short version? I might add a little more later.

I absolutely agree with everything! I'd add that with the ISTp sometimes he'll make hurtuful lacking-Fe comment when you try to show off an ability, and you'll make lacking-Fi comments on his lack of emotionality and/or problems socialzing/crap like that.

What you said about the crappy job will definately ring true here.

Since I'm 20, I can testify with my eyes that they end up like that!

Its funny because its true.

Did you catch your husband doing it?

[oyburger]

Did you catch your husband doing it?

Only to other people. He wouldn't dare do it to me; I can see straight through his crap

[XoX]

Lol. This thread scares me ESTps without the fake are less funny My friend has that smile btw I think I've never personally known an ESTp guy of the logical subtype. The subtype guy becomes pretty wild after having some alcohol. Not aggressive or violent really just sort of...out of control I could post pics...but I think he would be pissed at me

[FDG]

My friend has that smile btw

I guess I have, too, that's why I realize how dangerous it is?

[olduser]

fdg- major dude at work

[oyburger]

My friend has that smile btw

I guess I have, too, that's why I realize how dangerous it is?

Its a smile common to the Irish side of my husband's family (All ESTps) and I just thought it was genetics at play.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Like Pikachu!

[Rocky]

ISTp

You might meet this guy at your job, at the store, or at the gym. He comes in several types: one appears very reserved, while the other is more outgoing and practical.

The first version is the S version. He might seem like a quieter, more intense version of you at first, but don't be fooled. You two have entirely different modes of living. Try to befriend him, or get a reaction out of him, and your attempts will be fruitless. He almost seems to ignore you, although indirectly. This will possibly make you weary of yourself and his intentions. The bottom line is that he might not think you're a bad guy and vice versa, but trying to be good friends will only be a waste of time on your part. You won't get anywhere.

The L subtypes are a bit easier to talk to, but still won't provide you with what you need. You will probably agree with his viewpoints, as he will seem like a realistic, level-headed person. However, you both arrive at your conclusions from entirely different points of view, so working together might prove to be a challenge. At school or at your job, he'll probably be the guy who sits at your table, but your interactions don't go much deeper than that.

Both of them might be intelligent, good natured guys, however, in the long run, they don't provide much use for you. No matter how good-looking both of you are, or how much you try to talk to them, you really won't get much out of this one.

Oh?

[Rocky]

I have that smile too, but mostly when I'm fake-smiling. When it's a real smile, my eyes scrunch up more, and it looks less sneaky.

Everyone knows Herzy's an ISFP anyway.

[schrödinger's cat]

Why did this thread turn into a mudfight? Or is this just an athmosphere of vigorous debate and healthy disagreement and I'm too Delta to notice? Or is my original hypothesis correct and everybody has suddenly gone fruitcake? Every single herrschaftsdonnerwetterscheissverdammter thread I look into - people clobber each other over the head. Ordinary mild-mannered forum members before I went on holiday, and now - a bunch of scheissverdammte Neanderthals having a pillowfight. Or does this thread simply need some positive feng shui?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[schrödinger's cat]

So, what about some more type descriptions? This thread is too young to die such a death.

[niveK]

So, what about some more type descriptions? This thread is too young to die such a death.

Ahh yes, the topic. The discussions of logic, fallacy and language should be moved elsewhere. I, too, am curious to see how ESTp's view other types.

[Expat]

I have removed all the thrash from this thread -- perhaps it can now go back to being interesting.

[Rocky]

Every single herrschaftsdonnerwetterscheissverdammter thread I look into - people clobber each other over the head. Ordinary mild-mannered forum members before I went on holiday, and now - a bunch of scheissverdammte Neanderthals having a pillowfight.

See, this is what happens when you try to leave us alone.

[oyburger]

Thank you Expat.

I find the ESTp smile interesting. Here's one, its the gentelman on the right (sorry for the big, fuzzy picture). You can just tell that he's up to something :wink:



Does anyone have any guesses about the woman?

[FDG]

God yeah, the guy looks like an ESTp I know too. That smile is not as sneaky as the other one though

Now ENFp. I don't know how good it is because I've interacted only with healthy ones so maybe it's going to sound overtly positive, but hey.


There aren't distinctive physical features good for identifying this type. However, the chracterial quirks are easily distinguishable: verbal fluency, flair in interacting with the opposite sex, a certain similarity with you in his/her disdainful attitude (though, he/she can mask it better than you) towards society. If he's a male, he's likely to sound a bit gay, but the trait is really integrated in his overall style, so it kinda looks okay.

There aren't obstacles in this relationship. Most likely, you'll both enjoy the friendship: you'll provide him/her your and he/she will provide the creative which kinda looks like and is a lot of fun. Arguments are never real arguments: both of you don't take life seriously enough to really fight. Maybe you'll think that he/she needs more sun and a better workout schedule, and he/she will think that you need to moderate your voice, be less bossy, and not contest every damn thing existing, but hey, none of the two will declare this in the open. You'll also think that he's too damn into rock stars and all those things that you don't really give a shit about: just tell him that they suck, a nice and fun debate might come out of it.

If both of you pertain the same sex, you might envy a bit the easiness in interacting with the opposite floor (yeah, I'm too used to russian descriptions). Truth is, he envies you for your ability to persinstenly arrive at the end results instead of wasting time with courtship. So no big deal here too.

Pay attention he/she might get jealous of a friend. It's not a charateristc that pertains to every ENFp, but nonetheless there are some. Especially if the friend is INFp and you end up naturally substituting him/her.

Don't even try to start a project with them. You'll think everything they want to do is useless and rendundant, and they'll think everything you want to do is too dense, heavy and controversial.

Strangely enough, I've never experienced a direct PoLR hit from them. If you have, add.

Bottom line: a very good friendship can come out from this. Interaction is easy and fun, except for the boredom you'll experience at Delta parties. But both of you know how to liven up the atmoshpere. Just avoid too many really heavy sexual jokes, unless your objective is to attract the INFp. Oh, I forgot, they also usually have an INFp friend...shall I had anything?

[meatburger]

Haha

Made me laugh. Doesn't quite ring true for my interactions with an ESTp though. As an ESTp you seem to be refering to the E(N)Fp subtype. To be honest i think this subtype gets on better with ESTp's than my subtype.

The ESTp i know at work is calm and composed. He is the coolest guy and has a lot of respect from everyone. He isn't excessive with his power but people just wouldn't challenge him. When he and i look at each other even though we both like each other we feel a strange tension. The super-ego relation fits perfectly. I definately do not want to show him my weak side and i enjoy his confidence. I have to show him a degree of power. We both have respect for each other but a close relationship couldn't happen. I think to much for him he needs more spontaneous fun i think.

[FDG]

Haha

Made me laugh. Doesn't quite ring true for my interactions with an ESTp though. As an ESTp you seem to be refering to the E(N)Fp subtype. To be honest i think this subtype gets on better with ESTp's than my subtype.

Yeah, the male I know is E(N)Fp, almost ENTp; the girl not sure. Reembemer I'm also pretty (T) subtype, the (S) really comes out when I'm "in action".

The ESTp i know at work is calm and composed. He is the coolest guy and has a lot of respect from everyone. He isn't excessive with his power but people just wouldn't challenge him. When he and i look at each other even though we both like each other we feel a strange tension.

This doesn't really exclude what I stated. Actually, the thing is that for me there is a big disconnect between online and IRL with ENFps. Online we get along very well, IRL there's exactly the problem you explain here.

The super-ego relation fits perfectly. I definately do not want to show him my weak side and i enjoy his confidence. I have to show him a degree of power. We both have respect for each other but a close relationship couldn't happen. I think to much for him he needs more spontaneous fun i think.

The thing is, super-ego is defined as a relationship of close psychological distance. Anyway yeah I've probably had luck, because I also have an ENFp girl acquaintance with whom I can't get along - I think she's an illogical psychological wreck she thinks I'm an unemotional loner.

[Expat]

There aren't obstacles in this relationship. Most likely, you'll both enjoy the friendship: you'll provide him/her your

At the risk of sounding socionics-anal, is the ENFp's PoLR. This would work if you use it only to "confirm" the ENFp's own logic or if you actually provide .

and he/she will provide the creative which kinda looks like and is a lot of fun.

That makes sense. I also often think that irrational is mistaken for .

Oh, I forgot, they also usually have an INFp friend...shall I had anything?

Not sure about the "usually". I don't know that many INFps and ENFps to know whether such friendships are usual, but in principle contraries should not work very well.

However - -

I have observed that NF types tend to group together due to common interests (rock stars, religion, etc) despite the different quadras and temperaments, and especially two irrational NF types would be likely to hang around together despite a lack of deeper understanding.

[FDG]

There aren't obstacles in this relationship. Most likely, you'll both enjoy the friendship: you'll provide him/her your

At the risk of sounding socionics-anal, is the ENFp's PoLR. This would work if you use it only to "confirm" the ENFp's own logic or if you actually provide .

Ah, allright, true. I mean in things like "explaning maths" etc

Not sure about the "usually". I don't know that many INFps and ENFps to know whether such friendships are usual, but in principle contraries should not work very well.

Well I speak only from my experience of course maybe just around here!

I have observed that NF types tend to group together due to common interests (rock stars, religion, etc) despite the different quadras and temperaments, and especially two irrational NF types would be likely to hang around together despite a lack of deeper understanding.

Yep, that's what I observed. When you dig deeper they have different ideas of reference etc, but they get along well day-to-day.

[Expat]

Ah, allright, true. I mean in things like "explaning maths" etc
.

Ah, ok. That is the same as my asking types to help me choose a suit and a tie (ugh) for a formal occasion.

[snegledmaca]

Not sure about the "usually". I don't know that many INFps and ENFps to know whether such friendships are usual, but in principle contraries should not work very well.

Actually, that is very true from my experience. Every confirmed INFp I've met has a one-on-one ENFp friend. Never two, three or more, just this one ENFp.

However - -

I have observed that NF types tend to group together due to common interests (rock stars, religion, etc) despite the different quadras and temperaments, and especially two irrational NF types would be likely to hang around together despite a lack of deeper understanding.

Actually, "the lack of deeper understanding" is what makes the other person interesting. They are like a door to another world. Nobody can bring you that except them.

[FDG]

[quote="Herzy"]

flair in interacting with the opposite sex,

On the last day, I got really sick, and I felt like my head was about to implode at any second. So on the last day of the year at the job, all of the staff members get roses. I was trying to put on sunscreen so I wouldn't feel any worse, so I bit the stem of the flower (so I didn't have to hold it), and was spraying on the stuff.

I think he thought the fact you were biting the flower was actually a signal of sexual allowance

When I'm done and I put it down, I could see the ENFp guy walking up in the distance. I was like, "Oh shit!" So he made his flower into this ring thingy, and he sees that I have one too, and so he walks up. Meanwhile, I'm still feeling extremely sick, and the ENFp is there throwing out all sorts of and I was thinking, "???"

Ahahaa, I know the feeling yeah, I have sometimes to be more friendly and not zero on them with an one-liner

I sort of went with it, and at the end, we did that thing that all super-heros do with the rings (you know how they put them together, and it's all ZOMG POWER?).

Weeell one day I was in the city centre shopping alone. While walking I see from afar this guy with a flower on his head, it was the ENFp walking alone and having fun being silly . So I put the flower too (near the ear) and we started walking in the middle of the road holding hands (he's a male too ) and blowing kisses to other men passing

I'm not sure what the point of my story was, but I just felt like writing it anyways.

Np, this reminds me

ESTP -- You call that a glass of water? Why, back where I come from, ...

[Expat]

I'm not SLE, of course, but as I was killing time I scribbled these together.

- bitches from hell
- bitches
- interesting pussies
- intriguing pussies
- delightful pussies
- annoying tight-asses
- entertaining pussies
- enemies
- tight-ass pussies
- bitchy pussies
- mix of pussies and bitches from hell
- lazy pussies
- pleasant pussies
- annoying pussies
- smart pussies
- pussies

[implied]

[FDG]

ahahahahahh that made me really crack up!!

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

yay im a delightful pussy

[FDG]

INFp

A strange feeling of - better, a strong feeling of - better yet, a rather telling urge to undress him/her will accompany your first sight of your dual. This is if he/she pertains to the opposite sex. If he/she is of the same sex as you, you'll probably think that he needs a bit of a shake in his/her head for his wandering in the clouds to be corrected. Both will present themselves with a dreamy gentle look in the eyes and a way of speaking that seems to be suited to naturally slow down your machine-gun mouth. He/She will usually be either very well dressed - with a particular that stands out from the normal fashion giving an unique feeling to the clothing - or very plainly and incospicously. That's the biggest distinction between Ni and Fe subtype, really. There isn't much difference otherwise.

Anway: in the first case, depending on the environment you're in, he/she is likely to "make the first move" as in absolutely casually and randomly approach you but in an extremely modest maneer, probably attracted to the your perstering loud voice that usually tends to annoy everyone. Then you'll proceed at making one of your obvious and awful sexual jokes as an introduction to your charachter. Hold and behold: no pissed reaction will follow; nothing but a light laughther! In any case, it's still higly probable that you'll just pass on him/her at first sight, since you know your bullshit of being attracted to mega high energy and imperiousness...which never works out. So don't do that!

Further interactions are not likely to develop the first time you meet him/her due to the immersion in a social environment which usually highly absorbs both ESTps and INFps. Crucial, therefore, is your ability to catch this opportunity to break a way to get in touch with him/her. Beware that it might be not easy as expected to set up a date, since you might ecounter a certain degree of unresponsivness.

Upon meeting him/her you'll notice that you do not need to put up the usual uber extraverted mask and do all the talking: the atmosphere is reassuring, the questions he/she poses are well-placed, and time flows faster than usual (unfortunately). You'll find out that the part of the personality you had to supporess when dating SFs now can come out freely: talk about Marquis De Sade, killing people, eating rotten genitalia, doing the strangest kind of drugs, living in the slums, going to raves, working out 10 hours a day for a week straight and then do nothing for a week, your all-or-nothing perispective on most questions, making fun of people and thinking you're way above all of them. None of this will be reiceved with a cold stare which trasudates "you're a crazy psychopath".

Be prepared to a tirade here and there on how you treated a friend or how you always make fun of his/her ex INTj boyfriend in front of him making him cry blah blah or how your jokes are crude or how you listen to loud music all day long and have no elegance: it's the price to pay for witty company that basically will appreciate all the facets of your personality that you don't really dare showing to any body. Yes, even (and especially) all the passion in sex that you usually have to set off in order not to scare girls/men away.

Stay sure that, if you have never meet any person of this type, and you actually get to know one, he/she is going to be one of the people you never forget about even after years of not being in contact with them (something that shouldn't happen anyway). Yeah man, I know you might not belive it, but the euphoric state you will be in after spending time with them - beware your full-blasted Se powers might crush objects when you place them in your hands - is not going to be easy to forget, and you'll want to just squueze and hug and hump them for good!!!

[dreamer]

talk about Marquis De Sade, killing people, eating rotten genitalia, doing the strangest kind of drugs, living in the slums, going to raves, working out 10 hours a day for a week straight and then do nothing for a week, your all-or-nothing perispective on most questions, making fun of people and thinking you're way above all of them. None of this will be reiceved with a cold stare which trasudates "you're a crazy psychopath".

I wouldn't stare coldly but I wouldn't have a brilliant smile on my face either. It'd be like...'wonder' and 'eeeeeeeeeeew'. I'd think you're crazy though and not hump you back.

[Expat]

Beware that it might be not easy as expected to set up a date, since you might ecounter a certain degree of unresponsivness.

Yep, that is characteristic of the -dual-seeking -dominant types.

The über-passive temperament, IP, combined with the über-Victim dominant function - the perfect dual for the ultimate Aggressor and agitated types, the EPs.

I suppose ESXps find it exciting and intriguing.

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

talk about Marquis De Sade, killing people, eating rotten genitalia, doing the strangest kind of drugs, living in the slums, going to raves, working out 10 hours a day for a week straight and then do nothing for a week, your all-or-nothing perispective on most questions, making fun of people and thinking you're way above all of them. None of this will be reiceved with a cold stare which trasudates "you're a crazy psychopath".

I wouldn't stare coldly but I wouldn't have a brilliant smile on my face either. It'd be like...'wonder' and 'eeeeeeeeeeew'. I'd think you're crazy though and not hump you back.

INFj ftw!

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

better yet, a rather telling urge to undress him/her will accompany your first sight of your dual.

!!!!<3!!!!

None of this will be reiceved with a cold stare which trasudates "you're a crazy psychopath".

*has gotten the cold stare on many occasions*

- beware your full-blasted Se powers might crush objects when you place them in your hands - is not going to be easy to forget, and you'll want to just squueze and hug and hump them for good!!!

<3<3<3<3<3


Good job, Fabio ^.^

[FDG]

talk about Marquis De Sade, killing people, eating rotten genitalia, doing the strangest kind of drugs, living in the slums, going to raves, working out 10 hours a day for a week straight and then do nothing for a week, your all-or-nothing perispective on most questions, making fun of people and thinking you're way above all of them. None of this will be reiceved with a cold stare which trasudates "you're a crazy psychopath".

I wouldn't stare coldly but I wouldn't have a brilliant smile on my face either. It'd be like...'wonder' and 'eeeeeeeeeeew'. I'd think you're crazy though and not hump you back.

What if I started dancing on the street, among lots of people? Would you be embarassed or like it?

I suppose ESXps find it exciting and intriguing.

I *think* it's more like, it gives us the freedom to act on our moods. When we're in the mood, we'll push push push push for a response, when we're not we know we can do our own thing without feeling obligated, perhaps. I ain't literally *exciting*, more like *stimulating*

has gotten the cold stare on many occasions

From the ESTp, or you have stared?

[dreamer]

What if I started dancing on the street, among lots of people? Would you be embarassed or like it?

I'd be embarrassed but I'd laugh too. That'd be funny.

I think I'm not as INFP as Aurora and I'm not as INFJ as Diana. But then my age could have something to with it.