Results 1 to 31 of 31

Thread: "I live in a blue void, but nothing is blue", or "how Jimmy got tricked into living in the suburbs"

  1. #1
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default "I live in a blue void, but nothing is blue", or "how Jimmy got tricked into living in the suburbs"

    well shit, not even sure where to begin
    I never know how to find myself in a description of a socionics type, although there are certain things I disagree with upon seeing them. Whether I do these things anyway is a question I'm probably not equipped to answer.

    I can list some decisions I've made when I've actually had to put my foot down and assert myself:
    -Compliance- I'm generally amenable, but resentful, of my bosses telling me I need to do something differently, if it's a logical thing. If it's an ethical thing, I leave my ego, start nodding my head and instantly forget, because I'm never going to be able to carry out customer service in the typical way they want me to do it- cheerful, happy, overly interested in their problems.
    -At the same time, I help people at my job, as long as we are just talking about solving their problems and not the underlying life/emotional situation that caused them to seek help in the first place. I will hear their concerns and recommend the best solution, then end of story, my compassion ends at this point.
    -I help people with random problems even if they are completely out of the way, I only shut people out if I'm overly stressed.

    -Although I have problems with social interaction in general, concerning getting to know unfamiliar people and adapting to unfamiliar social situations, I can be overly familiar with people I know and it has become a habit for me to "know" people by projecting them into potential situations and testing their response, all completely in my head. Then the next time I interact with them, I actually know them better, and I feel more comfortable and able to express myself.
    -How I express myself around people I know well is one of cynical derision while maintaining friendliness and humor. I try to make jokes out of their mistakes and my own mistakes, in other words, even though I orient towards the negative, I turn it into a point of humor and lightness.
    -People who rely solely on their authority rather than their flexible humanity and are inflexible to mistakes cause me stress.

    -I am more interested in "intellectual" things than most people I know, but still pretty disinterested in creating a theory out of thin air, or even actively thinking about things. The correct things pop into my head, and I trust them until they are proved wrong in discussion, by discovering a contradictory fact, or the next, more correct thing that pops into my head.
    -I have always been seen as "the smart one" wherever I go, even though when I look at myself, I see plenty of wisdom, plenty of capability to see all sides of a situations and to predict the logic behind any argument or belief, but a complete fail when it comes to understanding the actual, thick, full-of-life process of developing a theory. There are too many loose ends, too many axioms to cover with exceptions, that any theory to be correct, must encapsulate the entire universe of its exceptions...basically turning it into nihilistic muck, which I am fully familiar with.
    -I simply ignore the practicalities of life....I would rather sit at home than go out and interact with people for the purpose of advancing myself in an industry. To me, my advancement anywhere should come through my natural talents and honest interactions with others, rather than any conscious marketing or presenting the truth in a dishonest way.
    -I have made a big deal about the last point in my life. I refuse to cleave to the standards of the job search, and this hurts me tremendously. The only time you will get an honest businessman is when you have a businessman that doesn't need you, and if you aren't the perfect candidate in today's economy, a liar candidate will outdo you any day, because to them it is a performance, and not a part of the natural order.

    There's a lot I could write about myself, and a lot of contradictory things. In general, I'm a person who has many thoughts, and does not particularly pay attention to "enclosing" logic, or logic that nails things down into one final conclusion, because too often as soon as you do this, you can go straight down the rabbit hole with exceptions, so I don't waste my time. I try to get an intuitive feel of life, and this has many, many downfalls.

    There should be some things you'd like to ask me to figure out my type, so go ahead and type them out.

  2. #2
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    other stuff
    types I've considered: ISTj,INTj,INTp,ENTp,INFp,ENFp
    ISTj: not sure if I'm a sensor
    INTj: not totally interested in intellectual things, I feel antsy when reading
    INTp: don't feel comfortable predicting the future
    ENTp: not as intellectually curious, but am quite restless
    INFp: most people who get to know me think I'm this, I have an Fe side to me but it is spotty
    ENFp: considered Ne without Ti, I have some sense of who people are intuitively, no real aptitude with pressing that farther than a simple realization though. not a manipulator.

  3. #3
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,740
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    You're a serious thinker type. I would like to know how you approach your tasks and organization of your living space. Do you cook? You serm to have week or devalued Ni because you're not "comfortable" predicting the future and also you misunderstand what sensory type is. You focus a lot on your personal comfort or the sensebof it here so I get a lot of Si from you

  4. #4
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    You're a serious thinker type. I would like to know how you approach your tasks and organization of your living space. Do you cook? You serm to have week or devalued Ni because you're not "comfortable" predicting the future and also you misunderstand what sensory type is. You focus a lot on your personal comfort or the sensebof it here so I get a lot of Si from you
    I ignore organization until I need to be organized to get something done. When I clean I often feel relieved without having realized that the clutter was stressing me out. When I cook, I cook simple things, but I eat out a lot, too.

    I can project into the near future and establish certain things about the long-term future, like that things are going to stay the same, culture will stifle, wars will get worse, more people will be on the streets, but nothing detailed.

    What I am bad at regarding the future is knowing what skills I need to be marketable, figuring out the questions people would need answered in a certain situation. I tend to care less about productivity and more about being able to learn things when they need to be learned. Learning skills(for example SQL) just because they show up in a job posting leaves me wondering "What the hell do I need to know about this thing? Certainly they can't expect me to learn everything about it without a goal or typical questions that are answered while doing this job in mind. How is this helpful to me at all?" This, though, may just be me being sane and everybody else being insane. That's a possibility.

  5. #5
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    hey guys,
    right here

    any ideas?

  6. #6
    yeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    TIM
    Si 6 spsx
    Posts
    1,259
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    hey guys,
    right here

    any ideas?
    LII or ILI

  7. #7
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    -I simply ignore the practicalities of life....I would rather sit at home than go out and interact with people for the purpose of advancing myself in an industry. To me, my advancement anywhere should come through my natural talents and honest interactions with others, rather than any conscious marketing or presenting the truth in a dishonest way.
    I wouldn't call this a practicality of life. Practicality = knowing how to repair stuff around the house, building stuff from scratch, being able to grow your own stuff in your garden, cooking, doing taxes, making wise financial decisions, selling stuff with a decent margin. What you're talking about seem to be some kind of sociopathic schmoozing.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  8. #8
    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    188 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I wouldn't call this a practicality of life. Practicality = knowing how to repair stuff around the house, building stuff from scratch, being able to grow your own stuff in your garden, cooking, doing taxes, making wise financial decisions, selling stuff with a decent margin. What you're talking about seem to be some kind of sociopathic schmoozing.
    Agreed on the practicalities part.About the advancing in field part; well, it's not really sociopathic nor smoothing. A lot of the factors involving success at anything are social in nature. I'm not so sure his "advancing based on own merit" is a fun approach to life. That said, I hate networking too but not doing it is usually more unsatisfyimg in the long run.

  9. #9
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Agreed on the practicalities part.About the advancing in field part; well, it's not really sociopathic nor smoothing. A lot of the factors involving success at anything are social in nature. I'm not so sure his "advancing based on own merit" is a fun approach to life. That said, I hate networking too but not doing it is usually more unsatisfyimg in the long run.
    Well, he talked about lying / being dishonest, not just getting to know people who may have work for you. I agree that it's good to show your real capabilities to a fair number of people, or even pepper them up a bit.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  10. #10
    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    188 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, he talked about lying / being dishonest, not just getting to know people who may have work for you. I agree that it's good to show your real capabilities to a fair number of people, or even pepper them up a bit.
    Ah yeah, I thought he implied that any use of marketing/sales or networking was "presenting truth in a dishonest way" but that was misreading on my part.

  11. #11
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,632
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Ah yeah, I thought he implied that any use of marketing/sales or networking was "presenting truth in a dishonest way" but that was misreading on my part.
    Just to clarify: I think conscious marketing is good, talking bullshit may be okay if you have financial problems but otherwise kinda meh. I know some people though who seems to naturally conflate conscious marketing with talking bullshit...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  12. #12
    lump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    12,628
    Mentioned
    635 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    i have a loose impression of LII. you haven't considered EII?

  13. #13
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Berlin
    TIM
    LSI 5w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,421
    Mentioned
    144 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Seems Delta NF

  14. #14
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I wouldn't call this a practicality of life. Practicality = knowing how to repair stuff around the house, building stuff from scratch, being able to grow your own stuff in your garden, cooking, doing taxes, making wise financial decisions, selling stuff with a decent margin. What you're talking about seem to be some kind of sociopathic schmoozing.
    I meant it in the sense that it isn't ideal, it is downgraded from a more honest, and to me, preferable, way of doing things. Thus it is a realistic, or practical viewpoint. In the sense that there is no world peace so you do your best to maintain peace in any way you can, or you can seek freedom by attaining power, but you are not born completely free, you have to go through the complex systems society and people impose on you in order to get what you want. Compromise.

    I know some people find it natural to boost themselves to the world and show their talents, I tend to think/prefer that if you need a worker for a job, the person calls you, puts you on trial for a few days, and then based on that ascertains whether you have potential or not. And that's more of a natural inclination for me to think that and not a learned thing.

    I tend to conflate the two: marketing and talking bullshit, because to me, there is not much to say about your talents- you have them or you don't.

    @Reficulris

  15. #15
    yeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    TIM
    Si 6 spsx
    Posts
    1,259
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    changing my type vote to EII or IEE

  16. #16
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I relate to the IEE having relationships where one day, I'm someone's best friend, and the next, I'm throwing them under the bus to get in the favor of someone else. When this happens it feels so natural I can't really stop myself but I wonder about it as I do it, what makes this so easy?

    Maybe I'm kind of manipulative but I strive not to be. Hmm, that sucks.

  17. #17
    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    188 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    I meant it in the sense that it isn't ideal, it is downgraded from a more honest, and to me, preferable, way of doing things. Thus it is a realistic, or practical viewpoint. In the sense that there is no world peace so you do your best to maintain peace in any way you can, or you can seek freedom by attaining power, but you are not born completely free, you have to go through the complex systems society and people impose on you in order to get what you want. Compromise.

    I know some people find it natural to boost themselves to the world and show their talents, I tend to think/prefer that if you need a worker for a job, the person calls you, puts you on trial for a few days, and then based on that ascertains whether you have potential or not. And that's more of a natural inclination for me to think that and not a learned thing.

    I tend to conflate the two: marketing and talking bullshit, because to me, there is not much to say about your talents- you have them or you don't.

    @Reficulris
    hm, not trying to convince you otherwise, just sharing my perspective here:

    Everything has many faces, if you turn an object around there are good en less good sides to the object. If you look at a human they're simultaniously a piece of shit and a godly being. The truth, and nothing but the truth (or the type of realism that many ILI's for example have) is correct but missing the point. Humans don't operate on factual truth, or at least, I myself are not happy with the truth. We need stories to pick from the multitude of perspectives, facets, those that make a coherent, congruent story that connects us to the not-us. In this sense almost everything is what i call "marketing".

    I could be truthfull and say to a client:

    "well, my talent is coming up with something in 5minutes and than others can work on it. It's not really a big deal, just some spurr of the moment but it's fruitfull. I could give you 1000 alternatives so basically this service i offer is useless"

    Or is could say: "this is the solution I came up with based on this and this criteria. It made me think of you, as it fits in with your companies strategy and identity. If you pick this option you'll get something that adds to that identity, and will make you money, save you time.

    The second option is technically not "true". I don't KNOW for a fact what the results will be. I have an incling about the effectiveness of various sollutions, but i'm selling them a future, a change of pace, a trick of the mind, a figment of my imagination. Now, the worth lies not in the ammount of work I put into it (if you look closely, value and amount of work aren't that strongly related irl imho) but the story, the effect on THEIR perspective.

    this is why i believe marketing is not necessarily the same as talking bullshit. Because on one level what I market is nonsense, but on another level it's extremely meaningfull.

    One more example:

    Life itself is useless because you die anyway and everything will turn to dust eventually <- truth
    Life can be enjoyable because it's complex, rich and challenging, you can enjoy every minute of it. <- marketed

    I'm of the oppinion that truth (truth doesn't exist, my examples of truth above where marketed from the cynics perspective) and marketing are not mutually exclusive nor ultimately contradictoir.




    If you're talking about blatant lying it's different, but that type of marketing is outdated and doesn't really work anymore due to fast word of mouth.

  18. #18
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    hm, not trying to convince you otherwise, just sharing my perspective here:

    Everything has many faces, if you turn an object around there are good en less good sides to the object. If you look at a human they're simultaniously a piece of shit and a godly being. The truth, and nothing but the truth (or the type of realism that many ILI's for example have) is correct but missing the point. Humans don't operate on factual truth, or at least, I myself are not happy with the truth. We need stories to pick from the multitude of perspectives, facets, those that make a coherent, congruent story that connects us to the not-us. In this sense almost everything is what i call "marketing".

    I could be truthfull and say to a client:

    "well, my talent is coming up with something in 5minutes and than others can work on it. It's not really a big deal, just some spurr of the moment but it's fruitfull. I could give you 1000 alternatives so basically this service i offer is useless"

    Or is could say: "this is the solution I came up with based on this and this criteria. It made me think of you, as it fits in with your companies strategy and identity. If you pick this option you'll get something that adds to that identity, and will make you money, save you time.

    The second option is technically not "true". I don't KNOW for a fact what the results will be. I have an incling about the effectiveness of various sollutions, but i'm selling them a future, a change of pace, a trick of the mind, a figment of my imagination. Now, the worth lies not in the ammount of work I put into it (if you look closely, value and amount of work aren't that strongly related irl imho) but the story, the effect on THEIR perspective.

    this is why i believe marketing is not necessarily the same as talking bullshit. Because on one level what I market is nonsense, but on another level it's extremely meaningfull.

    One more example:

    Life itself is useless because you die anyway and everything will turn to dust eventually <- truth
    Life can be enjoyable because it's complex, rich and challenging, you can enjoy every minute of it. <- marketed

    I'm of the oppinion that truth (truth doesn't exist, my examples of truth above where marketed from the cynics perspective) and marketing are not mutually exclusive nor ultimately contradictoir.




    If you're talking about blatant lying it's different, but that type of marketing is outdated and doesn't really work anymore due to fast word of mouth.
    No, this is the sort of thing I meant. So its advantageous when you look at what you can get from it. But a story is not harmless. People live their lives by them, and their actions affect everyone else. Think about how more well off we'd be if we didn't have these subjective barriers blocking our attempts at understanding or making the world both more equitable and productive? On the other side of it, people shouldn't need these reasons, they should simply see what is best for them, so such storycrafting can be used for good or evil, but seeing as good and evil are actually part of these stories and shaped by them, maybe the better argument is to simply stay out of the nihilistic clusterfuck that culture provides and do your best to well, compromise ala the other post.

  19. #19
    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,041
    Mentioned
    188 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    No, this is the sort of thing I meant. So its advantageous when you look at what you can get from it. But a story is not harmless. People live their lives by them, and their actions affect everyone else. Think about how more well off we'd be if we didn't have these subjective barriers blocking our attempts at understanding or making the world both more equitable and productive? On the other side of it, people shouldn't need these reasons, they should simply see what is best for them, so such storycrafting can be used for good or evil, but seeing as good and evil are actually part of these stories and shaped by them, maybe the better argument is to simply stay out of the nihilistic clusterfuck that culture provides and do your best to well, compromise ala the other post.
    Actually, what i was trying to say was that the story is advantagious to the other party too. No one can live without stories imho, so providing one that helps them jump the existential gap they've encountered (business problems are existential gaps for businesses) helps them. The story could be potentially harmfull, and you never know if it will be. Telling your kids "x is the way to look at the world" they my get into trouble due to that believe later. But i'm usually trying to make sure that at least my intent is that both parties benefit and that the story is one that adds perspective to someones life/business rather than limits theirs. I don't sell "buy this or be a hearthless mother" or "buy this and chicks will dig you" kind of stuff.

    A world without marketing, a world based on non-subjectivity would be terrible imho. Humans are pieces of shit, but still they're beautifull. That's the truth, both statements are equally true (as are all perspectives on that scale). I rather live in a world of beautifull illusions than of horrifying "truths" (since those truths, even your assesment of the world as non equitable and non-productive are illusions).

    Telling stories is hard work, the aim is always to both tell a good story and deliver good service/products. If one of the two fails the exchange doesn't take place and both parties are worse off. In that sense, although you're right that telling stories can be harmfull, so can be not telling a story.


    It's ultimately a matter of perspective, You seem to hold high standards of rationality on meta level. Most people aren't rational, and rightly so. Rationality itself is not rational, it's much better for an individual to believe in stuff (for example, relgious people recover faster from bodily harm on avarage due to optimism). I myself found that the less rational (non socionics) I become the more happy I am; measuring human endeavors in terms of "productivity" and or "efficiency" or even "consistency" seems like measuring the color of the clowds with a tape measure.

    I feel kinship with your thoughts on meta level, especially the remark about stories shaping stories (and their concequences and values) is close to how I look at the world. Ultimately you still believe in changing the world for the better, while i've become jaded (sort of) and accept the world as it is. (That is, I think that stories are a necessary evil, and can be either tedious or beautifull and thus I try to live the beautifull ones).

    A fair warning; if you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back into you. A world without illusions, to me, presented (hah!) itself as a bottemless black chasm, not a new paradise of kindness and tender beauty :'(

    I hope the world treats you kindly

  20. #20
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Actually, what i was trying to say was that the story is advantagious to the other party too. No one can live without stories imho, so providing one that helps them jump the existential gap they've encountered (business problems are existential gaps for businesses) helps them. The story could be potentially harmfull, and you never know if it will be. Telling your kids "x is the way to look at the world" they my get into trouble due to that believe later. But i'm usually trying to make sure that at least my intent is that both parties benefit and that the story is one that adds perspective to someones life/business rather than limits theirs. I don't sell "buy this or be a hearthless mother" or "buy this and chicks will dig you" kind of stuff.

    A world without marketing, a world based on non-subjectivity would be terrible imho. Humans are pieces of shit, but still they're beautifull. That's the truth, both statements are equally true (as are all perspectives on that scale). I rather live in a world of beautifull illusions than of horrifying "truths" (since those truths, even your assesment of the world as non equitable and non-productive are illusions).

    Telling stories is hard work, the aim is always to both tell a good story and deliver good service/products. If one of the two fails the exchange doesn't take place and both parties are worse off. In that sense, although you're right that telling stories can be harmfull, so can be not telling a story.


    It's ultimately a matter of perspective, You seem to hold high standards of rationality on meta level. Most people aren't rational, and rightly so. Rationality itself is not rational, it's much better for an individual to believe in stuff (for example, relgious people recover faster from bodily harm on avarage due to optimism). I myself found that the less rational (non socionics) I become the more happy I am; measuring human endeavors in terms of "productivity" and or "efficiency" or even "consistency" seems like measuring the color of the clowds with a tape measure.

    I feel kinship with your thoughts on meta level, especially the remark about stories shaping stories (and their concequences and values) is close to how I look at the world. Ultimately you still believe in changing the world for the better, while i've become jaded (sort of) and accept the world as it is. (That is, I think that stories are a necessary evil, and can be either tedious or beautifull and thus I try to live the beautifull ones).

    A fair warning; if you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back into you. A world without illusions, to me, presented (hah!) itself as a bottemless black chasm, not a new paradise of kindness and tender beauty :'(

    I hope the world treats you kindly
    It's just an effort for me to act in that way, and me wishing there was less of it so I would have an easier time changing stuff and living in general. Yes, what you're doing is good on the realistic level.

  21. #21
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    SEER ~ 458 sx/sp
    Posts
    9,897
    Mentioned
    734 Post(s)
    Tagged
    40 Thread(s)

    Default

    I want to hear about the blue void...

     



    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  22. #22
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Studying for the probability actuary exam makes me realize how spaced out I am and how mich I rely on intuition. Proofs and things like that offer a style of thinking that is definitely something I need to practice to grasp, but seems so trivial and subtle, that my roughshod treatment of most matters would completely miss it, like someone looking for missing cheese all over their house but never thinking of a mouse hole.

    What this means for my type, I'm not sure. It could just be that that sort of thinking is tough for everyone at first(even, say, LIIs).

  23. #23
    remer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Have you considered your stand on the Left vs Right dichotomy: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ess_and_result ?

    More in detail, especially the grouping: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ungian_Aspects

  24. #24
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by remer View Post
    Have you considered your stand on the Left vs Right dichotomy: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ess_and_result ?

    More in detail, especially the grouping: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ungian_Aspects
    Regarding whether I go from particulars to generalities or vice-versa, that's not really clear to me(I haven't kept a record of these things and my memory is notoriously...non-selecting). I think I tend to be a result type: for example, I get very frustrated as tasks are piled on to a goal I was already working towards, that I could already consider completed, that previously only needed the swift execution of its preconception... "civilization" always seems like it needs to pile on more and more non-needed things, especially at the individual level. This is related to my measure of efficiency, the number of tasks and their quickness between the start and end of the task determines how efficient it is(of course with the coefficient of how much change is actually made by the actions). I don't have the patience(or the understanding) for all these off-to-the-side checks of my autonomy. But I suffer through them, because you have to.

  25. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    TIM
    f a g g o t
    Posts
    387
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I sense a Nine.

  26. #26
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubozoan View Post
    I sense a Nine.
    Are you Canadian?

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    TIM
    f a g g o t
    Posts
    387
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Are you Canadian?
    In what hell of a context are you talking? I live in the US and yet I have the body of an anorexic girl.

    Nine or Five, you sound introverted and cerebral.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    3,394
    Mentioned
    340 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    @ouronis hey there ;D I wanted to post here you know


    So, you sound Negativist to me* and your convo with Reficulris sounded pretty LIIish (at least IJ with Ne creative)

    *: your second sentence in the first post is right away like that lol

    So put two and two together and again, LII. Just my current opinion

  29. #29
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubozoan View Post
    In what hell of a context are you talking? I live in the US and yet I have the body of an anorexic girl.

    Nine or Five, you sound introverted and cerebral.
    That was ...quite detailed. And yet ambiguous because I don't know if you're a guy with an anorexic girl's body, an actual anorexic girl, or maybe you have dyslexia, and you meant ano-xeric...which, I mean, look that up for yourself(in Latin, you won't be disappointed).

    The question about Canada was some sort of dumb joke with a punchline that I forgot already
    I think my enneagram is (probably) 5w4, but thanks for giving me a read on clear traits I display.

    @Myst

    did it sound LII? Reviewing it, I see that I clearly was trying to reconcile the views in order to let him off the hook, but seriously, that stuff doesn't sit well with me at all. It's like living a lie. However this is notwithstanding the fact that really, I am displaying an ideology myself, but without the benefit of being able to identify its roots in anything changeable. War results! (or would result, if this forum mattered and I had the ability to care about these things to the point of violence)

  30. #30
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    &*self
    Posts
    868
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    So let me get some input on whether this signifies delta Fi or LII awkwardness.

    Most of the time when I interact with people, I don't know if I uphold the group feeling. I've seen a few videos of LIIs in action, I can't say I'm like them. I'm more forced with my smiles, I understand the cues of social reaction, whether I'm supposed to pity the person, be sad for them, smile for them, etc. But this all feels...forced. I can barely hold my smile long enough to cover the moment required by the latest statement, let alone the entire situation. Some people do cause me to feel better...but then, only slightly. Typically I'm pretty serious in how I come off, I think, with very little (natural) facial feedback to what the other person is putting out. I can always follow what they're wanting from me, but I don't often feel the necessary emotions to create an authentic feeling about it. Sometimes, with these people who cause me to feel better, I will get into their mood, their feeling, a little bit, but still slow as molasses because I'm trying to consciously process how I should react. I usually can't do things for group feeling. I guess I can separate myself into two modes: one where I am talkative and joking, and one where I am focused and analytic. When I'm in one mood, I dislike the attempts of people to get me to go into the other mood. These moods tend to happen depending on my own, weirdly flowing moods, sometimes I choose to be more suggestive to the influence of other people and willing to let them influence me, most of the time I am in the mood just because I'm just feeling that certain mood. I can be a very different person depending. Sometimes really good jokes or really good conversations can shift me from one mode to the other, but in this case, I feel like I "want" to shift moods, so that it happens to where it lifts my mood at the same time.

    Eh...I have the feeling that I've written too much. I could write more, but I want to keep it user friendly if possible.

  31. #31
    remer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Regarding whether I go from particulars to generalities or vice-versa, that's not really clear to me(I haven't kept a record of these things and my memory is notoriously...non-selecting). I think I tend to be a result type: for example, I get very frustrated as tasks are piled on to a goal I was already working towards, that I could already consider completed, that previously only needed the swift execution of its preconception... "civilization" always seems like it needs to pile on more and more non-needed things, especially at the individual level. This is related to my measure of efficiency, the number of tasks and their quickness between the start and end of the task determines how efficient it is(of course with the coefficient of how much change is actually made by the actions). I don't have the patience(or the understanding) for all these off-to-the-side checks of my autonomy. But I suffer through them, because you have to.
    As you described it, it does sound Left. Myself I have gone through the "On Waves of Aging and Renewal: Progress Orientation in Combination with Jungian Aspects" article four times and associate myself with Right. Especially the piece about Stress tolerance helped me in deciding Right > Left. Right types are considered vunerable to stress, and some types even halted or frozen by stress. Left types in comparison seem to shake stress off, or be mobilized by stress.

    From here take these two dichotonomies to the Sociotypograph http://zhilkin.com/socio/en/.
    In your case, let's assume as you did and pick Result-oriented and choose between either Irrational or Rational based on your stress tolerance. This will help you narrow down all possibilities. To further specify it can be useful to determine your static or dynamic state. I have not the skill to analyze this in your writing, but there are those who can, this way it should be specific enough to point you in the "right" direction.

    Edit: I read that you are suggested to be Negative, in case of a Result-oriented type Negative corresponds to Static.

    Edit2: Going to your posts again, I read that you consider yourself mainly as an intuitive. Putting all these pieces in the Sociotypograph: Intuitive, Negative, Result-oriented it narrows down to LII and IEE. Determine your Stress tolerance cq. Rational/Irrational to reveal your possible type.
    Last edited by remer; 10-30-2014 at 03:16 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •