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    Default Socionics Videos

    linking some that I've found that go over introductory Socionics concepts and the relation between Socionics and MBTI


    Socionics 101: What is Socionics, and What is My Type? by LXPilot


    SWEB (Socionics With Elena & Ben) #1: Intro & Mission Statement
    Last edited by yeves; 06-14-2016 at 03:23 AM.

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    Socionics video 1 part 1 by Rick DeLong


    Socionics video 1 part 2 by Rick DeLong


    Socionics 1 by MysticSonic
    Last edited by yeves; 06-14-2016 at 03:26 AM.

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    Socionics. The Great Law by amkazan


    Neuroscience, Jungian Type and Mathematics TED Talk by Jane Kise at TEDxEnola


    Peter Bartl ('Expat') on Wikisocion and MBTI vs. Socionics


    WSS Interviews 'Expat' (LIE / ENTj)
    Last edited by yeves; 08-04-2014 at 10:21 PM.

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    Am I the only one who thinks most of the people in those videos look like they never venture outside of their parents basements?

    (i know, i'm prejudged because DJA is in there, but seriously, all of them are kinda....pathetic)

    If i didn't know better i'd say these are all meant as parody/characature, sadly, they are not.

    Edit: oh shit, at least a few of those are probably users here... i'd apologize if I didn't think you needed to hear this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks most of the people in those videos look like they never venture outside of their parents basements?

    (i know, i'm prejudged because DJA is in there, but seriously, all of them are kinda....pathetic)

    If i didn't know better i'd say these are all meant as parody/characature, sadly, they are not.

    Edit: oh shit, at least a few of those are probably users here... i'd apologize if I didn't think you needed to hear this...
    Idk, they look like completely normal people to me. They just have a kind of nerdy hobby/interest, like we all do here. Maybe they really live in their mum's basement or maybe they don't, I don't see how you can conclude anything about their lives from these videos. Is it something that they say (cause I don't feel like watching whole videos)?

    What makes you think you looked so much cooler in your video (and you looked normal to me as well, to make it clear)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Idk, they look like completely normal people to me. They just have a kind of nerdy hobby/interest, like we all do here. Maybe they really live in their mum's basement or maybe they don't, I don't see how you can conclude anything about their lives from these videos. Is it something that they say (cause I don't feel like watching whole videos)?

    What makes you think you looked so much cooler in your video (and you looked normal to me as well, to make it clear)?
    hm, It's kinda obvious to me, can't give a real detailed "description of things" that made me get this feeling.

    Also, i gave the disclaimer that i was prejudged cuz DJA.

    Finally, i'm pretty damned sure I'd judge my video as pathetic if it wasn't me. Based on completely different reasons though. Mine was pathetic identity seeking/attention whoring (something I did allude to at various points in my posts) whereas these guys take themselves AND socionics way too serious. The presume that others are interesting in their "expertise" and seem to be willing to speak authoratively about something which is kinda...extremely pointless if you look at it from real life, non-socionics-primed perspective.

    But ultimately it's just my perspective. I'd say the same if someone was talking about starwars or their favorite band, idk, i feel people in general think too highly of themselves and use the internet to delude themselves about their self-worth. The possibility is there that i'm blinded/clouded in my judgement based on that preconception.

    The last part "i'd appologize if i didn't think you needed to hear this" is aimed at the presentation and/seriousness. There's a brand of nerdiness, or patheticness that needs feedback to learn how to actually relate to others. I've met a lot of people whom most people couldn't interact with and the people above show a few of similar tendencies/characteristics. There's a whining underneath, a "weakness" or a sense of leaning in, that I like to disencourage in others...

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    I have a similar impression here ...
    and hey, I don't really know all those ppl, but to call yourself a "Socionist/Socionics expert" like that and make all that casual interview/video sound like the BBC begged in front of your door for it is a bit unnatural. After all they're probably just folks like many on this forum who are mostly trying to explore or to check out Socionics, not actually live off it. I don't see the point of this comparison. Rfrs's vid had a totally different purpose and it was more humanized; it was meant for typing and the dude talked mostly about himself and the life experience that got to define him ... (mmm, maybe that was only npd and I'm so subjective that I can't see properly...).

    but what's even weirder is the reason why all these videos were posted here lol

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    Arendee used to post here. He's a tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Finally, i'm pretty damned sure I'd judge my video as pathetic if it wasn't me. Based on completely different reasons though. Mine was pathetic identity seeking/attention whoring (something I did allude to at various points in my posts) whereas these guys take themselves AND socionics way too serious. The presume that others are interesting in their "expertise" and seem to be willing to speak authoratively about something which is kinda...extremely pointless if you look at it from real life, non-socionics-primed perspective.
    I see what you mean. I don't have the patience to watch videos like this anyway and yeah, it is presumptuous to think of yourself as a socionics expert, unless you're publishing acclaimed articles on the subject, and even then socionics is highly questionable in itself. But idk, maybe some people prefer watching videos to reading socionics texts and they can learn something useful from it anyway.

    And if we start getting into what is pointless and what isn't, then we very quickly figure out that nothing is. So if obscure hobbies make people happier, then whatever.

    Yeah, your video was attention whorish, but almost everybody here is attention whoring as a side job anyway. I'm just trying not to brand people as utterly pathetic and living in their mother's basement because they're making videos on nerdy subjects. And even if they are, just let them be (I'm feeling very accepting of everybody today ). I feel they irritate you because you can see a part of yourself in them. You can probably relate to their nerdiness/social anxiety on some level and you despise it in yourself, so it pisses you off when you see weakness iin others.

    idk, i feel people in general think too highly of themselves and use the internet to delude themselves about their self-worth. The possibility is there that i'm blinded/clouded in my judgement based on that preconception.
    I agree with you, but what to me is far far more annoying then overly -confident people are people who have no self-confidence/assertiveness whatsoever and just whine about it all the time, talk about how much they suck and throw pity-parties 24/7.

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    am i the only one who sees these videos as altruistic attempt at sharing knowledge and desire to inform those who don't find socionics materials easy to understand?
    buuut i understand that my p.o.v is highly controversial lol

    live and let live, people ---- why the negativity!

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I see what you mean. I don't have the patience to watch videos like this anyway and yeah, it is presumptuous to think of yourself as a socionics expert, unless you're publishing acclaimed articles on the subject, and even then socionics is highly questionable in itself. But idk, maybe some people prefer watching videos to reading socionics texts and they can learn something useful from it anyway.

    And if we start getting into what is pointless and what isn't, then we very quickly figure out that nothing is. So if obscure hobbies make people happier, then whatever.

    Yeah, your video was attention whorish, but almost everybody here is attention whoring as a side job anyway. I'm just trying not to brand people as utterly pathetic and living in their mother's basement because they're making videos on nerdy subjects. And even if they are, just let them be (I'm feeling very accepting of everybody today ). I feel they irritate you because you can see a part of yourself in them. You can probably relate to their nerdiness/social anxiety on some level and you despise it in yourself, so it pisses you off when you see weakness iin others.



    I agree with you, but what to me is far far more annoying then overly -confident people are people who have no self-confidence/assertiveness whatsoever and just whine about it all the time, talk about how much they suck and throw pity-parties 24/7.
    Lol, pop psychology. People don't dislike those similar to onself even our bad qualities are looked upon as favorable. The "projecting" idea has been discarded by serious psychologists since the birth of positivistic social science. Opposites do not attract... Oh also, madness and genius doesn't actually lie close to eachother; iq and mental health (lack of mental problems) are positively corralated.

    going public with nonsense equals stepping in my sphere of life. If they want to tell the world something; at least make it eloquent, marketing is more inportant than message to me. Failing that is failing to understand the nature of public speech. I don't care about their pathetic delusions; tell me beautiful stories instead (and please, please don't start believing in it yourself...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    But ultimately it's just my perspective. I'd say the same if someone was talking about starwars or their favorite band, idk, i feel people in general think too highly of themselves and use the internet to delude themselves about their self-worth.
    weird. i like seeing people talk about things they love. even if it doesn't hold any interest to me personally im still not going to hold it against them for making a positive contribution to something theyre passionate about.


    (that said..i havent watched any of these except for a couple of dja's videos and he's an asshat.. maybe they all are, i wouldn't know)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Lol, pop psychology. People don't dislike those similar to onself even our bad qualities are looked upon as favorable. The "projecting" idea has been discarded by serious psychologists since the birth of positivistic social science. Opposites do not attract... Oh also, madness and genius doesn't actually lie close to eachother; iq and mental health (lack of mental problems) are positively corralated.

    going public with nonsense equals stepping in my sphere of life. If they want to tell the world something; at least make it eloquent, marketing is more inportant than message to me. Failing that is failing to understand the nature of public speech. I don't care about their pathetic delusions; tell me beautiful stories instead (and please, please don't start believing in it yourself...)
    It really depends on what you call opposite, and how you evaluate mental health.

    Mental health is largely a behavioral assessment, disorderly conduct evaluation, as such disordered people are behaving in a way which is disorderly. IQ is largely a behavior, outcomes predictive thing which is in many the same measurement as behavioral assessment. However it shows that IQ is effective to a certain point at improving outcomes and at another point it becomes bad for outcomes. Very high intelligence introduces a host of mental issues, and we have to say that in this way genius and madness are linked. Just above average IQ and IQ levels 1-2 standard deviations from norm is mostly positive, but very high IQ seems to create a host of social issues and adjustment issues which would be classified under mental illness.

    Attraction is about aligned interests, parallel interests and not "mutually exclusive interests". The term opposite is actually bad imo because it's a quality that exists even for parallel interest and aligned interest, however mutually exclusive interests is where things get into major conflicts. Socionics suggests that non-mutually exclusive interests along with novelty of expression with the same vector of transformation is the best relationship(duality). I would say this applies for some situations in science such as a stable chemical bond. The concept of Opposite is actually extremely meaningless given the parameters here.

    In many ways like/dislike is not a good metric to understand conflict, because it's not the whole picture, even looking upon something favorable may result in conflict, what matters is if interest and goal is mutually exclusive or not. The situation is more complicated than the words Mental illness/Opposites/Attraction/etc could ever explain and even using such terms in a psychological discussion to refute or support positions is delving into pop psychology territory. Truth, and especially truth about the unknown is not going to be able condensed into upworthy sound bites very easily, sometimes you get lucky and you can do it, but most of the time the best marketing can do is make it sound boring/obvious.

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    this thread has grown more than expected, so many responses

    Quote Originally Posted by miss BabyDoll View Post
    am i the only one who sees these videos as altruistic attempt at sharing knowledge and desire to inform those who don't find socionics materials easy to understand?
    buuut i understand that my p.o.v is highly controversial lol

    live and let live, people ---- why the negativity!
    you're not the only one! i see these videos as simply another approach of sharing their experience and knowledge of socionics, which is very helpful for auditory learners like myself. @Reficulris @Solaris @darya I've watched most of these videos in full and did not hear any one of them calling themselves an "expert in Socionics". they talked about very basic concepts like duality, functions, types, and some of their own opinions, but it was all in the spirit of sharing rather than expertise or intellectual snobbism.

    in the mean time I've found a few more videos:


    Igor Weisband talks about his ideas in Socionics. p1


    Igor Weisband talks about his ideas in Socionics. p2
    Last edited by yeves; 08-04-2014 at 10:53 PM.

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    Victor Gulenko Interview with interpretation by Elena Ames-Hagba


    Dario Nardi INTERVIEW: News & Victor Gulenko's socionika Model G
    Last edited by yeves; 06-14-2016 at 03:29 AM.

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    Visitor from USA talks about Myers-Briggs typology and its implementation in the USA.

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    Socionics: It's All in the Mind. How Socionics' Information Metabolism and a Model of Memory fit together.

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    EII / INFj videos

    Exercising your inferior function (INFP/EII - Te, ESTJ/LSE - Fi) by Clemens Lode and Jesse


    Maritsa for Socionics INFj


    Humanist: Ethical Intuitive Introvert (EII or INFj)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    Socionics: It's All in the Mind. How Socionics' Information Metabolism and a Model of Memory fit together.
    Out of context this one may seem like an assertion. But it was done in an effort to give an example in support of grounding socionics.

    Also, if I was still into socionics, I would edit the portion of the video of the VW cars. I was having a tough time getting across a concept, and still did a sucky job on that portion.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    It really depends on what you call opposite, and how you evaluate mental health.

    Mental health is largely a behavioral assessment, disorderly conduct evaluation, as such disordered people are behaving in a way which is disorderly. IQ is largely a behavior, outcomes predictive thing which is in many the same measurement as behavioral assessment. However it shows that IQ is effective to a certain point at improving outcomes and at another point it becomes bad for outcomes. Very high intelligence introduces a host of mental issues, and we have to say that in this way genius and madness are linked. Just above average IQ and IQ levels 1-2 standard deviations from norm is mostly positive, but very high IQ seems to create a host of social issues and adjustment issues which would be classified under mental illness.
    No, this is actually not true, the opposite is the case. Research indicates that slightly above avarage IQ is higher related to depression, anxiety and social problems than avarage OR high IQ. It seems that people above the 140 iq treshhold develop great strategies to deal with people. There ARE some psychological disorders which tend to come with highish iq (aspergus and other highly functional forms of autism) but those rarely get over the 140 norm. Geniusses ARE usually good with people, all stereotypes thus are wrong.

    Attraction is about aligned interests, parallel interests and not "mutually exclusive interests". The term opposite is actually bad imo because it's a quality that exists even for parallel interest and aligned interest, however mutually exclusive interests is where things get into major conflicts. Socionics suggests that non-mutually exclusive interests along with novelty of expression with the same vector of transformation is the best relationship(duality). I would say this applies for some situations in science such as a stable chemical bond. The concept of Opposite is actually extremely meaningless given the parameters here.
    People are attracted to people that are similar. This holds when applied to short term attraction and relationship succes both. Research doesn't tell us why this is the case but it seems that we fastly prefer people who are similiar, even on superficial things like what kind of shoes we wear or how we look. Actually interests are not a great predictor for relationship succes according to the statistics. Believes are, so are socio-economical background and physical features. People are probably far less influenced by cerebral things like you are suggesting and more by baseline, reptile functions.

    In many ways like/dislike is not a good metric to understand conflict, because it's not the whole picture, even looking upon something favorable may result in conflict, what matters is if interest and goal is mutually exclusive or not. The situation is more complicated than the words Mental illness/Opposites/Attraction/etc could ever explain and even using such terms in a psychological discussion to refute or support positions is delving into pop psychology territory. Truth, and especially truth about the unknown is not going to be able condensed into upworthy sound bites very easily, sometimes you get lucky and you can do it, but most of the time the best marketing can do is make it sound boring/obvious.
    I'm not completely sure what you're getting at. I was just shooting down pop-psych things like 'projecting" and extended into other false (but common) notions like "opposites attract" and "geniusses are mad" and stuff like that.

    About truth and marketing: For me there is no truth. This is the only part where you and I don't see eye to eye. While you understand post-modernism/relativism, you seem to find comfort in pragmatic science. I like science, I respect it more than any other "system of belief" but I don't believe that it delivers truth. Truth is a moral adjective that gets added to a believe to make people believe it more dogmatically!! (<- that's the truth ;-) )

    I see marketing as something more than visual representation/catchy slogans. It's about the compelling story, the alignment (i recycled your word jeej) between product and message.

    What annoys me with the socionics videos (and the blogs/translations/texts about it in general) is that the marketing seems wrong. The proponents are arguing mainly from their own experience (worthless evidence). They seem to believe socionics is something it is not (a functional and interpersonally defendable theory). They immerse in it to the extend that it becomes part of their identity. Finally, most don't seem to be succesfull in any area of life. If socionics is so great, how come they don't use it to get to their goals? Why is this mainly past time and not a TrueTm occupation?

    The answer ofc is, because of the points above. I respect those forumnites that seem to have a decent live and see socionics as interesting but irrelevant. I respect those that believe it but don't claim it's the only truth. I kinda respect the grudgingly tolerated high-cynics. The only ones that trouble me are those that are writing/videoblogging like socionics is something that needs to be preached, spread, sold or otherwise socially shared. I sincerely believe the world is better off not believing socionics as it is currently (and probably as it will ever be).

    That, my friends, is why I dislike people who blog about socionics from a shitty basement, a TED conference (come-on, it's like sending your retarded child to play flute at the orchestra building, even though this was TEDsmallTownTM) and or talk four hours about something that's worth time mainly as past time, not as something "real".

    I feel shame for them :S


    P.S. how about a derail with all posts coming from my original snark to preserve what integrity this thread might have to others?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    Socionics: Fi/Fe/Empathy/Compassion
    For some reason this person looks like an extroverted sensor from the first 2 minutes. Likely FeSi. Where is her IEI self-typing? Your intentions with the videos are ok, but with so many mistypings it doesn't come easy to take the person's views on functions&co. for granted, you know ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    No, this is actually not true, the opposite is the case. Research indicates that slightly above avarage IQ is higher related to depression, anxiety and social problems than avarage OR high IQ. It seems that people above the 140 iq treshhold develop great strategies to deal with people. There ARE some psychological disorders which tend to come with highish iq (aspergus and other highly functional forms of autism) but those rarely get over the 140 norm. Geniusses ARE usually good with people, all stereotypes thus are wrong.
    The statistics I've found shows outcomes start plateauing at 140ish and drop at some levels past that. Maybe people at 140+ develop strategies to cope but it doesn't mean those strategies are very useful. It seems 140+ cope too well. IMO novel creativity requires a bit anti-social behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    People are attracted to people that are similar. This holds when applied to short term attraction and relationship succes both. Research doesn't tell us why this is the case but it seems that we fastly prefer people who are similiar, even on superficial things like what kind of shoes we wear or how we look. Actually interests are not a great predictor for relationship succes according to the statistics. Believes are, so are socio-economical background and physical features. People are probably far less influenced by cerebral things like you are suggesting and more by baseline, reptile functions.
    How you look and what you were are choices that shows information preference, it's communication. Also socionics isn't about how relationships form but how it collapses, it's predictions are for long term relations and if you look at statistics, it's communication, infidelity and money which break relationships. Everyone that discuss why relationship breaks down always has communication in the list of top issues. Initial attraction might be more animalistic in nature, but that says nothing about the sort of long term relations that socionics discusses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    I'm not completely sure what you're getting at. I was just shooting down pop-psych things like 'projecting" and extended into other false (but common) notions like "opposites attract" and "geniusses are mad" and stuff like that.

    About truth and marketing: For me there is no truth. This is the only part where you and I don't see eye to eye. While you understand post-modernism/relativism, you seem to find comfort in pragmatic science. I like science, I respect it more than any other "system of belief" but I don't believe that it delivers truth. Truth is a moral adjective that gets added to a believe to make people believe it more dogmatically!! (<- that's the truth ;-) )

    I see marketing as something more than visual representation/catchy slogans. It's about the compelling story, the alignment (i recycled your word jeej) between product and message.

    What annoys me with the socionics videos (and the blogs/translations/texts about it in general) is that the marketing seems wrong. The proponents are arguing mainly from their own experience (worthless evidence). They seem to believe socionics is something it is not (a functional and interpersonally defendable theory). They immerse in it to the extend that it becomes part of their identity. Finally, most don't seem to be succesfull in any area of life. If socionics is so great, how come they don't use it to get to their goals? Why is this mainly past time and not a TrueTm occupation?

    The answer ofc is, because of the points above. I respect those forumnites that seem to have a decent live and see socionics as interesting but irrelevant. I respect those that believe it but don't claim it's the only truth. I kinda respect the grudgingly tolerated high-cynics. The only ones that trouble me are those that are writing/videoblogging like socionics is something that needs to be preached, spread, sold or otherwise socially shared. I sincerely believe the world is better off not believing socionics as it is currently (and probably as it will ever be).

    That, my friends, is why I dislike people who blog about socionics from a shitty basement, a TED conference (come-on, it's like sending your retarded child to play flute at the orchestra building, even though this was TEDsmallTownTM) and or talk four hours about something that's worth time mainly as past time, not as something "real".

    I feel shame for them :S

    P.S. how about a derail with all posts coming from my original snark to preserve what integrity this thread might have to others?
    I'm not sure what you've written really warrants a response so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Lol, pop psychology. People don't dislike those similar to onself even our bad qualities are looked upon as favorable. The "projecting" idea has been discarded by serious psychologists since the birth of positivistic social science. Opposites do not attract... Oh also, madness and genius doesn't actually lie close to eachother; iq and mental health (lack of mental problems) are positively corralated.
    Yeah, that was pop psychology, but it's true in many cases. And no, our bad qualities are not always looked upon as favorable - we might excuse it in ourselves, but not with others.

    I'm sure the thing about madness and genius is an urban myth, but to bluntly say that opposites don't attract is very presomptuous.. At least in romantic sense. How do we define what is opposites anyway? I see point is already debating with you, so I will stop right here, cause It's silly plus I'm really not close to interested enough in this topic to discuss with you any further.

    P.S. I think you were the one that was derailing the thread first

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    hm, It's kinda obvious to me, can't give a real detailed "description of things" that made me get this feeling.

    Also, i gave the disclaimer that i was prejudged cuz DJA.

    Finally, i'm pretty damned sure I'd judge my video as pathetic if it wasn't me. Based on completely different reasons though. Mine was pathetic identity seeking/attention whoring (something I did allude to at various points in my posts) whereas these guys take themselves AND socionics way too serious. The presume that others are interesting in their "expertise" and seem to be willing to speak authoratively about something which is kinda...extremely pointless if you look at it from real life, non-socionics-primed perspective.

    But ultimately it's just my perspective. I'd say the same if someone was talking about starwars or their favorite band, idk, i feel people in general think too highly of themselves and use the internet to delude themselves about their self-worth. The possibility is there that i'm blinded/clouded in my judgement based on that preconception.

    The last part "i'd appologize if i didn't think you needed to hear this" is aimed at the presentation and/seriousness. There's a brand of nerdiness, or patheticness that needs feedback to learn how to actually relate to others. I've met a lot of people whom most people couldn't interact with and the people above show a few of similar tendencies/characteristics. There's a whining underneath, a "weakness" or a sense of leaning in, that I like to disencourage in others...
    Speak for yourself. Perhaps you shouldn't hold preconceptions about the people that participate here. For instance, I am not typing this from a parents basement: I am in fact sunbathing on the deck in my birthday suit. I believe you are experiencing the "its not real, but it is sometimes valid, phase".

    I see the merit of showing people who have made videos, instead of pity for the people I am watching (which is in fact pity for myself projected outwards onto other people - don't be such an intellectual, Refi, you should understand that truth better then others), I feel it makes this hobby more real and solid. It terms of other personality typologies, MBTI, astrology, Jung, chinese, enneagram, socionics stands above them. If someone is brave enough to make a video and talk about their knowledge, then how about the peanut gallery, ie you, STFU?

    WE can't all be upper class, highly educated giraffes.

    :/
    Last edited by wacey; 08-06-2014 at 01:57 AM.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    [QUOTE=point;1034573]The statistics I've found shows outcomes start plateauing at 140ish and drop at some levels past that. Maybe people at 140+ develop strategies to cope but it doesn't mean those strategies are very useful. It seems 140+ cope too well. IMO novel creativity requires a bit anti-social behavior. /QUOTE]

    Maybe, I prefer to think common conception (genius and madness is close together) is wrong. Also, novel creativity =/= genius nor madness ;-)


    How you look and what you were are choices that shows information preference, it's communication. Also socionics isn't about how relationships form but how it collapses, it's predictions are for long term relations and if you look at statistics, it's communication, infidelity and money which break relationships. Everyone that discuss why relationship breaks down always has communication in the list of top issues. Initial attraction might be more animalistic in nature, but that says nothing about the sort of long term relations that socionics discusses.
    This I agree with totally. Also, i wasn't arguing against socionics here, merely pointing out that commonly held psychological ideas are usually wrong (there's a lot more than the three i pointed out, but it was merely an refutation of the idea that people dislike those who are similar to them or have similar faults).



    I'm not sure what you've written really warrants a response so... [
    kk

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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Yeah, that was pop psychology, but it's true in many cases. And no, our bad qualities are not always looked upon as favorable - we might excuse it in ourselves, but not with others.
    Statistics disagree with you. Ofc you sometimes dislike something in others that you do yourself, hypocracy is a common thing. But statistically you're more likely to dislike things in others that you don't have yourself. It explains, among others, why people have xenophobic tendencies. Base wiring primes people to see new things as negative and familiar things as positive. But it's ofc to everyone themselves to attach a value to those findings, there's faults in psychology as it is now.


    I'm sure the thing about madness and genius is an urban myth, but to bluntly say that opposites don't attract is very presomptuous.. At least in romantic sense. How do we define what is opposites anyway? I see point is already debating with you, so I will stop right here, cause It's silly plus I'm really not close to interested enough in this topic to discuss with you any further.
    It's not presumptious at all in the context I quoted; people are statistically more likely to stay together and have a fullfilling relationship (self reported though) if they are more similar on pysical, socio-economical and believe dimetions. One (extremely controversial) study showed that the placement of beautispots (heaps of pigment) actually influences this. (although i'm of the camp that thinks this study was problematic).

    P.S. I think you were the one that was derailing the thread first
    You must have misread my intent. I wasn't suggesting you/others derailed it, i was suggesting -> I <- did and asked Hk to derail it to give others space that I didn't give them in my first post.

    P.S. how about a derail with all posts coming from my original snark to preserve what integrity this thread might have to others?





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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Statistics disagree with you. Ofc you sometimes dislike something in others that you do yourself, hypocracy is a common thing. But statistically you're more likely to dislike things in others that you don't have yourself. It explains, among others, why people have xenophobic tendencies. Base wiring primes people to see new things as negative and familiar things as positive. But it's ofc to everyone themselves to attach a value to those findings, there's faults in psychology as it is now.
    Yeah, yeah, ofc, that's only logical. I'm often attracted to people who are similar to me, but are better at things I like about myself if it makes sense. And sure, I dislike totally different/not understandable/unrelatable people as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Speak for yourself. Perhaps you shouldn't hold preconceptions about the people that participate here. For instance, I am not typing this from a parents basement: I am in fact sunbathing on the deck in my birthday suit. I believe you are experiencing the "its not real, but it is sometimes valid, phase".
    Oh my preconceptions where based on how they come off on video and don't extend to everyone here. But yes you are right, it's prejudged and elitist.
    I'm in the " it's not real but sometimes it's valid" phase on everything.

    I see the merit of showing people who have made videos, instead of pity for the people I am watching (which is in fact pity for myself projected outwards onto other people - don't be such an intellectual, Refi, you should understand that truth better then others), I feel it makes this hobby more real and solid. It terms of other personality typologies, MBTI, astrology, Jung, chinese, enneagram, socionics stands above them. If someone is brave enough to make a video and talk about their knowledge, then how about the peanut gallery, ie you, STFU?
    Well.... I'm not sure it's above those other systems, at least, not to me. Those can give direction, be used as tool in cold-reading, are highly debatable and lack general concensus on the most fundamental level all similar to socionics. They give similar things to me and have similar flaws. Socionics is more interesting in a lot of ways, but i'm not sure it's actually "better" (esp, since i wouldn't be able to find a common measurement to rate them on).

    I do agree that people making videos can enrich the hobby, but I have the feeling that they are not percieving it as a hobby anymore. There seems to be a missionary zeal to the videos. In general i dislike all deep rooted believes in others, it's not just socionics, I'd react the same to someone talking astrology, soccer or even lay-science. Sometimes it's super cool and informative, sometimes they feel like they're enforcing their believes on me and I get reactive. (I know I know, i can chose not to watch :S)

    WE can't all be upper class, highly educated giraffes.

    :/
    Yes you can! Join the happy giraffe brigade and lets all be tall and awkward!





    Sorry 'bout the rants :' (

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    Gah, are you really going to guilt me into apologizing to you for telling you to stfu!

    Fine, I'm sorry, was a bit rude okay I will admit that. I'm not just another 16t dickhead that flourish in backwater forums. Lord, spare the burden of being nice, I would rather be authentic instead.

    Addressing your point about beliefs, refi, a friend once said to me recently: "wacey, it's not that you don't have any beliefs, its that you don't believe in the believing itself, you just don't believe in beliefs!

    I think that come on though, can't we just all set aside the ENDLESS debate about wether or not this stuff is REAL. We all know it isn't, but admit just a little bit to ourselves that we are not all a little guilty of typing and inter-typing and being spooky accurate ??

    (Until even your own sociotyping maybe incorrect and everything you ever thought might be wrong GAH!)
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Finally, most don't seem to be succesfull in any area of life. If socionics is so great, how come they don't use it to get to their goals? Why is this mainly past time and not a TrueTm occupation?
    Have you ever given a presentation about anything?

    If not, imagine that you are doing it right now and after the presentation I will come up to you and say: "Nice composition on your slides.. but if your topic was so great, why are you here giving us presentations? Why haven't you used what you're presenting to get ahead in life? Ofc its because everything you presented is bullshit. Now don't get me wrong, I respect some people in the audience who are impartial enough to listen through this crap, but I don't have any respect for people like you who waste time giving us presentations and overinvesting yourself into some shitty topic that hasn't earned you a private mansion + helicopter or made you into anyone important." How would you respond to this? Do you think my response is appropriate and based on realistic expectations? Because this is what you sound like.

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    Nah, he just seems like one of the smart ones who sees through this stuff. I think it is difficult to appear incredulous at the same time as taking something seriously. It's a fine balance and most people are not capable of APPEARING as both (although in writing its another story) We can't all be charismatic professors.

    And come on refi, like you think socionics is on par with astrology, really!??

    The russian videos are great I have viewed dozens of them, good for VI cause you can't understand the words, just the body languages and personas.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Gah, are you really going to guilt me into apologizing to you for telling you to stfu!

    Fine, I'm sorry, was a bit rude okay I will admit that. I'm not just another 16t dickhead that flourish in backwater forums. Lord, spare the burden of being nice, I would rather be authentic instead.

    Addressing your point about beliefs, refi, a friend once said to me recently: "wacey, it's not that you don't have any beliefs, its that you don't believe in the believing itself, you just don't believe in beliefs!

    I think that come on though, can't we just all set aside the ENDLESS debate about wether or not this stuff is REAL. We all know it isn't, but admit just a little bit to ourselves that we are not all a little guilty of typing and inter-typing and being spooky accurate ??

    (Until even your own sociotyping maybe incorrect and everything you ever thought might be wrong GAH!)
    haha nah don't feel guilty about the stfu, it was totally called for.

    not believing in believing is a good way to word it yes and ofc, if there was no appeal to socionics at all I wouldn't try and understand it.

    Nah, he just seems like one of the smart ones who sees through this stuff. I think it is difficult to appear incredulous at the same time as taking something seriously. It's a fine balance and most people are not capable of APPEARING as both (although in writing its another story) We can't all be charismatic professors.

    And come on refi, like you think socionics is on par with astrology, really!??

    The russian videos are great I have viewed dozens of them, good for VI cause you can't understand the words, just the body languages and personas.
    noo astrology is much better!!! ;-) (just kidding ofc).

    Russian videos sound cool, do you have a link to them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    Have you ever given a presentation about anything?

    If not, imagine that you are doing it right now and after the presentation I will come up to you and say: "Nice composition on your slides.. but if your topic was so great, why are you here giving us presentations? Why haven't you used what you're presenting to get ahead in life? Ofc its because everything you presented is bullshit. Now don't get me wrong, I respect some people in the audience who are impartial enough to listen through this crap, but I don't have any respect for people like you who waste time giving us presentations and overinvesting yourself into some shitty topic that hasn't earned you a private mansion + helicopter or made you into anyone important." How would you respond to this? Do you think my response is appropriate and based on realistic expectations? Because this is what you sound like.
    I do give presentations on semi regular basis. The scenario you describe is kinda a strawman though. But I agree with your general sentiment that telling people they look pathetic isn't nice and wasn't called for. Wacey already made me see that my snark was not called for.


    But..

    I can't resist...

    Let me try to make it more relatable and less snarky, since aside from the snark, I do care about presentations and video's.

    Let's talk your context, I give a presentation. Now, in this case it's not about personality or perception or people skills or relations. It's about either academics or a product I need to sell.

    In the case of an academic talk I'll be held accountable; I need to at least adhere to a professional standard (usual powerpoints with the uni's logo and such), I need to give an abstract beforehand, I need to be able to back up my numbers with the source data and the references with original source. I need to not use logical falacies and present in english.

    If I stray from that, I get shot down. I've faced harsh criticism and have grown through it although i'm still only a mediocre speaker acadamically speaking.

    Now lets talk about sales; I'm supposed to show the product from the best angle, tie it in to costumer expectations and language. I need to make sure the client enjoys the presentation and does not walk out of the door or sends us away. I cannot lie about the product and anything I talk about should be shown to the client in order to drive home the message. Again there's standards concerning the slides, although i'm usually allowed a lot of creative freedom. If/when I blow a meeting (and i do so semi-frequently) my collegues will tell me what's wrong, how i appeared, where i was discongruent, where i made a claim we could not make into truth (happens sometimes since I ad-lib a lot)... etc etc. This is painfull, but again i've grown.

    In both cases there's the way I communicate and the content. If either is wrong the session fails. If i'd claim to be the all knowing expert in the academy setting i'd be laughed away by everyone since i'm not. If I'd be too arrogant or too pushy with the client I lose the client.

    Now talk socionics videos.

    Socionics is a way of understanding oneself and others. The theory deals with perception, interpersonal relations, self awareness, people skills.

    If I talked about this, i'd need to show that I understand perception, that I can handle interpersonal relations. That i'm self aware and that I have people skills. These are the qualities i'd look for in someone who talks about this to me. Because, if they can't even utelise the theory themselves, why would I listen to them? If it's not them but the theory, why would I listen to the talk?

    So, I expect the videos to be made self aware, with knowledge about how I, as audience, will percieve it. I expect them to look like they could go to a date or interview, why? because to me that signals that they understand that, at least to some people, this is important. I expect them to be self aware and reflective, aware of their limitations. why? Because to me that's what socionics is about; no type can understand everything, people think different, people will conflict even though both can be right.

    When I see DJA's video (and the others to lesser extend, but i admitted before, and will admit again, that any list with DJA in it is contaminated in my view) i don't see someone who is succesfull in relating to others. I don't see someone who's self aware. If anything I see someone who's forcing a poorly thought out presentation through a video. This makes me cynical.

    Now, again, my snark was not warrented. It was out of frustration, possibly unrelated to the topic (don't really remember my mood back than but could be). I still do think that in order to give a presentation, where you're claiming to teach something about what is essentially life-style-advice should be backed by at least an interesting and mature life. Claiming they don't have that (except dja) was presumptious and wrong.

    I hope this takes away the sting, I will respond to the videos individually later if I have something to say about them. I didn't mean to dereail your thread or to insult the intend of making instructive videos. It was a fleeting impression that I commented on and it was shallow and arrogant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post

    If I talked about this, i'd need to show that I understand perception, that I can handle interpersonal relations. That i'm self aware and that I have people skills. These are the qualities i'd look for in someone who talks about this to me. Because, if they can't even utilize the theory themselves, why would I listen to them? If it's not them but the theory, why would I listen to the talk?

    So, I expect the videos to be made self aware, with knowledge about how I, as audience, will percieve it. I expect them to look like they could go to a date or interview, why? because to me that signals that they understand that, at least to some people, this is important. I expect them to be self aware and reflective, aware of their limitations. why? Because to me that's what socionics is about; no type can understand everything, people think different, people will conflict even though both can be right.
    It's all good I reckon, this is what it is like in the aristocratic quadras. All eight types do this in some manner or other.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

  35. #35

    Default Socionics Videos

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Out of context this one may seem like an assertion. But it was done in an effort to give an example in support of grounding socionics.

    Also, if I was still into socionics, I would edit the portion of the video of the VW cars. I was having a tough time getting across a concept, and still did a sucky job on that portion.
    Nice post. The basic with in the video where well presented. I gained from whiting it. Thanks

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    I DJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I DJ
    your love has been answered ;P he's making videos again


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    Elena from "Elena & Ben" is not ESFJ. INF*, maybe
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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