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Thread: the great gatsby

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    Default the great gatsby

    there isn't a thread on this already? i know @Radio has opinions. i just read the book but i didnt try to type anybody.

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    character list from sparknotes

    Nick Carraway - The novel’s narrator, Nick is a young man from Minnesota who, after being educated at Yale and fighting in World War I, goes to New York City to learn the bond business. Honest, tolerant, and inclined to reserve judgment, Nick often serves as a confidant for those with troubling secrets. After moving to West Egg, a fictional area of Long Island that is home to the newly rich, Nick quickly befriends his next-door neighbor, the mysterious Jay Gatsby. As Daisy Buchanan’s cousin, he facilitates the rekindling of the romance between her and Gatsby. The Great Gatsby is told entirely through Nick’s eyes; his thoughts and perceptions shape and color the story.

    Jay Gatsby - The title character and protagonist of the novel, Gatsby is a fabulously wealthy young man living in a Gothic mansion in West Egg. He is famous for the lavish parties he throws every Saturday night, but no one knows where he comes from, what he does, or how he made his fortune. As the novel progresses, Nick learns that Gatsby was born James Gatz on a farm in North Dakota; working for a millionaire made him dedicate his life to the achievement of wealth. When he met Daisy while training to be an officer in Louisville, he fell in love with her. Nick also learns that Gatsby made his fortune through criminal activity, as he was willing to do anything to gain the social position he thought necessary to win Daisy. Nick views Gatsby as a deeply flawed man, dishonest and vulgar, whose extraordinary optimism and power to transform his dreams into reality make him “great” nonetheless.
    Read an in-depth analysis of Jay Gatsby.

    Daisy Buchanan - Nick’s cousin, and the woman Gatsby loves. As a young woman in Louisville before the war, Daisy was courted by a number of officers, including Gatsby. She fell in love with Gatsby and promised to wait for him. However, Daisy harbors a deep need to be loved, and when a wealthy, powerful young man named Tom Buchanan asked her to marry him, Daisy decided not to wait for Gatsby after all. Now a beautiful socialite, Daisy lives with Tom across from Gatsby in the fashionable East Egg district of Long Island. She is sardonic and somewhat cynical, and behaves superficially to mask her pain at her husband’s constant infidelity.
    Read an in-depth analysis of Daisy Buchanan.

    Tom Buchanan - Daisy’s immensely wealthy husband, once a member of Nick’s social club at Yale. Powerfully built and hailing from a socially solid old family, Tom is an arrogant, hypocritical bully. His social attitudes are laced with racism and sexism, and he never even considers trying to live up to the moral standard he demands from those around him. He has no moral qualms about his own extramarital affair with Myrtle, but when he begins to suspect Daisy and Gatsby of having an affair, he becomes outraged and forces a confrontation.

    Jordan Baker - Daisy’s friend, a woman with whom Nick becomes romantically involved during the course of the novel. A competitive golfer, Jordan represents one of the “new women” of the 1920s—cynical, boyish, and self-centered. Jordan is beautiful, but also dishonest: she cheated in order to win her first golf tournament and continually bends the truth.

    Myrtle Wilson - Tom’s lover, whose lifeless husband George owns a run-down garage in the valley of ashes. Myrtle herself possesses a fierce vitality and desperately looks for a way to improve her situation. Unfortunately for her, she chooses Tom, who treats her as a mere object of his desire.

    George Wilson - Myrtle’s husband, the lifeless, exhausted owner of a run-down auto shop at the edge of the valley of ashes. George loves and idealizes Myrtle, and is devastated by her affair with Tom. George is consumed with grief when Myrtle is killed. George is comparable to Gatsby in that both are dreamers and both are ruined by their unrequited love for women who love Tom.

    Owl Eyes - The eccentric, bespectacled drunk whom Nick meets at the first party he attends at Gatsby’s mansion. Nick finds Owl Eyes looking through Gatsby’s library, astonished that the books are real.

    Klipspringer - The shallow freeloader who seems almost to live at Gatsby’s mansion, taking advantage of his host’s money. As soon as Gatsby dies, Klipspringer disappears—he does not attend the funeral, but he does call Nick about a pair of tennis shoes that he left at Gatsby’s mansion.

    Meyer Wolfsheim - Gatsby’s friend, a prominent figure in organized crime. Before the events of the novel take place, Wolfsheim helped Gatsby to make his fortune bootlegging illegal liquor. His continued acquaintance with Gatsby suggests that Gatsby is still involved in illegal business.

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    Read it ages ago. Loved it. Still have to see the movie. Wouldn't be comfortable typing anyone without re-reading.

    ((first impression though, Delta nf for main character, Delta st for woman))

    It's been a long time...

    Edit: main character meaning Gatsby, not narator

    Edit2: kind of related to Gatsby at the time. Really wanting to reread now....

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    i remember radio typed daisy SLE and i was surprised cuz my impression was some kind of ethical like maybe EIE.

    i could probably go with LSI for tom.

    jordan was an introvert, maybe Se creative.

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    In the movie Daisy's character was IxFx, a fragile helpless girl, but in the book it felt different.

    Tom's type felt logical and strongly rational with deeply repressed ethics: Te-LxE or Ti-LSI.

    Jay Gatsby: ILE. His character's two main traits were opportunism and a naive idealism at heart.

    Nick Caraway: IEI, doesn't show his distress but he's deeply touched by this story.


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    I always thought Gatsby was an IEI, unsure of subtype, probably some 4/3 variant and sp-last. I don't see how his opportunism is prominent enough to be considered typologically relevant, let alone indicative of ILE. He just seemed skilled and relatively lucky.

    Daisy was probably SLE, but I can see arguments for EIE. I think her kind of lazily removed airiness is more reflective of EP than EJ.

    Tom was Te-LSE. imperiousness, overdone machismo, tasteless, aristocratic hauteur...

    Jordan could be Se-LSI, or possibly Se-ESI, can't see much else.

    Nick was probably ILI. intuitive, reflective, conservative, distantly admiring of gatsby's idealism.

    Myrtle struck me as some some Se-dominant, and her husband was likely SLI.

    Wolfsheim could be LIE.

    the movie was decent, but I felt the 'old sport's' and dicaprio's enthusiasm were a bit overdone.
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    IEI guys are too passive and ambivalent in relationships, which is nothing like Gatsby.

    Neither do IEI men with Fe creative devote themselves to one girl their whole lives. They either get bored or suffocate feeling caged into one relationship, whichever comes first.

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    IEIs with 3 and sx aren't the most passive about relationships, and I see nothing about the absurdly grandiose and unnecessarily farfetched style of gatsby's endeavors that doesn't suggest beta and Te-polr. the whole thing is centered around his 'dream girl' and a fantastical image of himself. it's desperate, but not quixotic, more hopelessly romantic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I always thought Gatsby was an IEI, unsure of subtype, probably some 4/3 variant and sp-last. I don't see how his opportunism is prominent enough to be considered typologically relevant, let alone indicative of ILE. He just seemed skilled and relatively lucky.

    Daisy was probably SLE, but I can see arguments for EIE. I think her kind of lazily removed airiness is more reflective of EP than EJ.

    Tom was Te-LSE. imperiousness, overdone machismo, tasteless, aristocratic hauteur...

    Jordan could be Se-LSI, or possibly Se-ESI, can't see much else.

    Nick was probably ILI. intuitive, reflective, conservative, distantly admiring of gatsby's idealism.

    Myrtle struck me as some some Se-dominant, and her husband was likely SLI.

    Wolfsheim could be LIE.

    the movie was decent, but I felt the 'old sport's' and dicaprio's enthusiasm were a bit overdone.
    I pretty much completely agree with this except I'm not sure about Gatsby.

    I never thought Gatsby was IEI. I figured something closer to SLI or LSI.

    Nick may have been ILI in the book but I think in the movie he was definitely Fe creative. Plus I refuse any association with Toby Maguire.

    I wasn't a huge fan of the book but I hated the movie. Almost every Delta I know loved the movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    IEI guys are too passive and ambivalent in relationships, which is nothing like Gatsby.

    Neither do IEI men with Fe creative devote themselves to one girl their whole lives. They either get bored or suffocate feeling caged into one relationship, whichever comes first.
    Personal experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ollyx2OxenFree View Post
    Personal experience?
    A little bit of that, a little bit of reading this forum. There is an IEI guy I've seen around, he's idealistic but easily loses his direction and get discouraged if he has to struggle uphill on his own. I know he's had many girlfriends. Jay Gatsby doesn't strike me of the sort.

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    lungs already knows, but just to chime in:

    Gatsby: EIE
    Daisy: SLE
    Tom: LSI (although LSE isn't far off)
    Nick: IEI

    i haven't revisited this book for a long while so i'm not definite about the typings, but i've always thought this book is beta as fuck.

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    Even if it's Beta, I remember trying to read the first few pages and I didn't like it that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    there isn't a thread on this already? i know @Radio has opinions. i just read the book but i didnt try to type anybody.
    What did you think of this book?
    I am sorry if you have answered this previously. I havent read more than the initial post yet!
    But I am working on that (;
    Everything interests me but nothing holds me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrangea View Post
    What did you think of this book?
    I am sorry if you have answered this previously. I havent read more than the initial post yet!
    But I am working on that (;
    i enjoyed reading it but i was expecting something more? it felt kind of anticlimactic when i finished. i liked the writing.

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    Nick Carraway - A delicate soul. I'd say introverted alpha; very accomodating, compromising and non-confrontational.

    Jay Gatsby - ILE - an irrational 'thinker' lead and considering the interchange with Daisy Buchanan description, an ILI would be more interested in a more aggressive/assertive partner and his romantic approach is very infantile.

    Daisy Buchanan - Possibly SEI or IEI; socialite, pleasant, non-confrontational; object rather than actor.

    Tom Buchanan - I don't like Tom Buchanan, he's a dick and seems to be stupid. Mismatched LSE unable to find satisfaction in his partner because she has none of the Fi co-opting that the LSE needs to direct their excess energy

    Myrtle Wilson - SLE/LSI Beta, aggressive, direct, honest and not stupid. Trying to look after herself.

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    Daisy is definitely a socialite, ESE or SEE. She's just playing around with Gatsby the whole time, what she's most serious about is maintaining her way of life. Even if she does love Gatsby she has no intention of leaving Tom and running away with him.

    Poor Gatsby is definitely Fi-POLR for not being able to see the kind of relationship Daisy will give him. He's also not at all grounded in reality. ILE sounds right.

    Nick Carraway is LII, imo because though IEI seems likely, he is the narrator and the writing does not sound like an IEI. He is more of an analytical observer. This is also why he gets along with his mirror Gatsby, when others misunderstand him, and also the initial attraction to Jordan Baker who is LSI.

    Tom could really by any angry A type, LSE or even SLE.

    Myrtle as SLE is actually a genius typing, I agree totally.

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    Nick was surely IEI. Quiet, introverted, often reflective of his relationships with his environment/people and others' (and how they connected to other things). He placed a great deal of emphasis on the emotional atmosphere and expressions of those he encountered, contemplative of the internal workings that caused them, enthralled by the Fe environment of Gatsby's parties and how he specifically romanticized NY (rules out ILI indefinitely), etc.

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    Nick IEI-Ni
    Gatsby Gamma SF
    Daisy IEI-Fe/ EIE
    Buchanan LSI/LSE

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    Gatsby - EIE
    Daisy - IEI - Fe (Beta NF for sure at least)
    Buchanan - LSE
    Myrtle - SLE
    Nick - LII? Didn't pay attention to him, so he might be IEI-Ni


    I find the book way overrated, I hoped the movie will be better....nah, just a glamorized music video. Dissapointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    I wasn't a huge fan of the book but I hated the movie. Almost every Delta I know loved the movie.
    I didn't like the movie at all and I usually really like Baz Luhrmann's movies. I like the Redford/Mia Farrow version better but still.... I don't get why this is such a classic. A story about awful people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    I didn't like the movie at all and I usually really like Baz Luhrmann's movies. I like the Redford/Mia Farrow version better but still.... I don't get why this is such a classic. A story about awful people...
    I agree; I liked the older one better. I haven't seen any other Baz luhrmann's movies other than Romeo+Juliet, which seems to be something similar to what he did with the Great Gatsby. At least with the Romeo+Juliet movie he took the style so far out there that you can see the ridiculousness as like an interesting take on a classic whereas the modern Great Gatsby just seemed confused. I'm also am not for this useless mixing of CGI to dramatize scenes. It's like he expected the visual effects to carry the boringness of it. The personalities of the people were also rather lackluster and really just not worth watching. Just my opinion.

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    I haven't watched the new movie, but it looks kitschy by the trailer --- not contesting Di Caprio's basic acting qualities, but Robert Redford was just a much better choice for the character. I was ambivalent towards Mia ...Daisy is less contained and more flighty and "superficial" from the book....but also quite charming one way or the other. She's like a replica of Daisy Miller who is actually more frivolous on an inner level and more sophisticated on a social one.

    The book is incredible, I don't know how some ppl can so lightheartedly claim it's overrated.
    Last edited by Amber; 10-05-2014 at 09:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    The book is incredible, I don't know how some ppl can so lightheartedly claim it's overrated.
    Probably the same way perfectly intelligent high schoolers can read Shakespeare's work and dismiss it because "it's full of cliches" <------- actually happened.

    History extends backward to about 1980; reception of poetic language is weak; ecstasy is supplanted by stimulation.
    Last edited by golden; 10-06-2014 at 02:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    I didn't like the movie at all and I usually really like Baz Luhrmann's movies. I like the Redford/Mia Farrow version better but still.... I don't get why this is such a classic. A story about awful people...
    I don't see how it's a story about awful people. gatsby is self-deceptive and a little superficial, but ingenuous and redeeming in a kind of idyllic way; daisy is somewhat specious, but has a necessary feminine presence and inspires a certain lackadaisical hopefulness (thinking of the 'lightness' that underpins her character); jordan is kind of scandalous, but in a fitting, necessary way (one that I would argue is inversely redemptive, in light of the corruption of the times), and plays her part well; and tom is definitely depraved, but innocent and misguided in his own way. nick to me was a pretty stand up guy overall. tbh I think the moral faults and limitations of the characters were just an encapsulation of the mood of the times, not really something to pass a verdict on.

    and I agree with solaris. it's one of a few books (along with The Catcher in the Rye and The Stranger) that I actually feel should be required reading.
    Last edited by strrrng; 10-06-2014 at 03:52 AM.
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    @strrrng
    Is the writing style similar to The Stranger and Catcher in the Rye?

    I never read this one. Saw half of the movie and didn't think it was all that amazing of a story, but I've heard it's a hard book to make into a movie.

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    The poetic prose in Gatsby is nowhere to be found in the Catcher in the Rye or The Stranger (informal and simple dialect, stream of consciousness narrative).

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    yeah, they're both a bit more dry, The Catcher in the Rye having somewhat personal undertones, The Stranger being completely detached, lol.

    and it's definitely difficult to make into a movie. balancing gatsby's grandiosity and idealism with his softer, humbler side; manifesting the juxtaposition between daisy's depth as a human and her flighty ways; and capturing the kind of lewd extravagance of the times without turning it into a shitty musical are just some of the obstacles one faces. also, the dialectic itself is difficult to translate (and I think showing the writing on the screen was a tasteless effect), as the symbolism is so subtly embedded that one can't make much of a scene out of it; and the nuances of interaction would probably suit an older movie better. overall it was ok, but like I said before, a bit overdone.
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    no clue on the characters types, in the film adaption by baz luhrmann everyone was beta ...
    instinctual variants + dynamics are more obvious.

    Nick Carraway - sp/so
    Jay Gatsby - sx/sp
    Daisy Buchanan - so/sx
    Tom Buchanan - so/sp
    Jordan Baker - sx/sp
    Myrtle WIlson - sp/sx
    Mr. WIlson - sx/sp
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim View Post
    no clue on the characters types, in the film adaption by baz luhrmann everyone was beta ...
    instinctual variants + dynamics are more obvious.

    Nick Carraway - sp/so
    Jay Gatsby - sx/sp
    Daisy Buchanan - so/sx
    Tom Buchanan - so/sp
    Jordan Baker - sx/sp
    Myrtle WIlson - sp/sx
    Mr. WIlson - sx/sp
    ...
    These are perfect. What about enneagram types? Nick and Jordan in the thinking triad, Jay and Daisy heart, Tom maybe a gut type with a strong 7

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    Not my quadra.

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