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  • Feminism can suck my cunt

    5 18.52%
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    13 48.15%
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Thread: Women against feminism

  1. #1
    xerx's Avatar
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    Default Women against feminism

    Forum's boring lately; so to continue my favourite topic of controversy,

    http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/

    ^ What do you girls think?
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    It happens.



    y'know...humans take things to both extremes..

    the extremists of one side is blame men for everything/ have an overall feeling of entitlement...the extremists of the other side stating that feminism degrades women who cook/clean for their husbands...


    I'm more of a... pro-choose, keep birth control and morning after pills affordable, gay/transgender rights, don't rape men or women. I choose to dislike individuals as opposed to groups of people based on sex/race/beliefs.... we're all going to die, so whatever...make yourself feel better?

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    I think there's different definitions of what feminism is.
    I think the real definition is just for the sexes to be equal. Nothing about women being more special or something.
    If those girls understood the equality meaning of feminism they prbly wouldn't be doing that,
    especially if they took into account the countries where girls are getting gassed and/or abducted for going to school and things like that.
    That's what true feminism is about - helping those girls and women.

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    2. option.

    I'm not in favour of some sub-types of radical feminism though, as I find them over the top and bizzare.

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    Some are as stupid as those "Feminism" cards.

    #truewomen
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Omg I didn't even see the link

    What a bunch of retards missing the whole point. Retarded women are retarted.

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    It looks like she's still learning to speak proper English. A true woman might just be a technical description for a prefeminist woman, without the added, suggestive layer of rhetorical effect.


    Also, I read the bottom as "I love cock."
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    I'm glad women can vote now. It wasn't fair before. I know it was meant to be one-vote-per-household ("Women vote indirect"), but single women had no say.

    I believe feminism has crushed chivalry, and for that I am disgusted by it. Men have a role and women have a role, and when women force themselves into the men's role it leaves nobody in the women's role, which is a very important role. Stay-at-home fathers exist, but women are naturally built to care for infants, and it's not a good system to switch roles like that, at least until the kids are a few years old.

    Though there are exceptions, men tend to make better leaders. The exceptions, like Queen Elizabeth and Joan of Arc, were unmarried. (Jezebel may have been an impressive married leader, but not a good one.) I figure if a woman wants to fill a man's role, let her remain a virgin. Other than them, let the men open doors for us and bring us flowers and we can thank them prettily and make them sandwiches and they can work and manage the finances while we work and manage the home.

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    I think Americans are weird....

    Feminism simply means no discrimination. Even men are feminists, normally... . If you are against it as a woman, it's like being black and wanting apartheid, but Americans have some extreme ideas about what feminism is, it seems? It simply means being against discrimination of any gender. Anti-feminism is like being racist, to me. Could anyone explain me what "feminism" means to Americans, since it can't be the same, based on these sort of weird topics.

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    To maintain my inner peace and balance I usually try to avoid any activity that ends in "ism".

    ism (ˈɪzəm)n1. an unspecified doctrine, system, or practice

    Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

    ism(ˈɪz əm)

    n.a distinctive doctrine, theory, system, or practice: capitalism, socialism, and other isms.
    [< -ism]
    -isma suffix appearing in loanwords from Greek, where it was used to form action nouns from verbs (baptism); on this model, used as aproductive suffix in the formation of nouns denoting action or practice, state or condition, principles, doctrines, a usage or characteristic,devotion or adherence, etc.: Darwinism; despotism; plagiarism; realism; witticism. Compare -ist, -ize.
    [< Greek -ismos, -isma]


    Because those things often lead to fanaticism.

    Example: I am really into the philosophy expressed in the Tao Te Ching but upon deep consideration, I know I am not into Taoism. <-- "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao."

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    It looks like she's still learning to speak proper English. A true woman might just be a technical description for a prefeminist woman, without the added, suggestive layer of rhetorical effect.
    I didn't want to criticize her English, which is obviously not her first language. And I think you're right about what this card is supposed to mean, it is clearly a reference to the conservative role model of women within a family. But the statement that you can only be a true women if you're at home cleaning and cooking for your man is as unfair as those of (radical) "feminists" saying that any woman who is a stay-at-home mother is either stupid or oppressed by the patriarchy.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I didn't want to criticize her English, which is obviously not her first language. And I think you're right about what this card is supposed to mean, it is clearly a reference to the conservative role model of women within a family. But the statement that you can only be a true women if you're at home cleaning and cooking for your man is as unfair as those of (radical) "feminists" saying that any woman who is a stay-at-home mother is either stupid or oppressed by the patriarchy.
    I agree and I might add, I feel it is perfectly fine if a woman chooses to stay home and not have a specific career ambition or even want one AND not cook, clean, raise children or whatever...

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I didn't want to criticize her English, which is obviously not her first language. And I think you're right about what this card is supposed to mean, it is clearly a reference to the conservative role model of women within a family. But the statement that you can only be a true women if you're at home cleaning and cooking for your man is as unfair as those of (radical) "feminists" saying that any woman who is a stay-at-home mother is either stupid or oppressed by the patriarchy.
    How about : every woman should choose for herself whatever she wants to do in her life and nobody should judge her for it. Whether she wants to be a career woman or a stay-at-home mum, Whether she wants to be independent or she would rather have her man (or woman) in charge. The same goes for men obviously. So people with similar views and life goals can find each other and all is well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    To maintain my inner peace and balance I usually try to avoid any activity that ends in "ism".



    Because those things often lead to fanaticism.

    Example: I am really into the philosophy expressed in the Tao Te Ching but upon deep consideration, I know I am not into Taoism. <-- "The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao."
    Haha I agree. I have two brothers, one I talk about a lot who everyone refers to as the male version of me, the “ILE.”
    My other brother is either “SLE” or “LSE” I’m never sure which, but my brother and I claim everything he says is –ism. We call it Ianism. Nobody will argue with him because he’s temperamental and can knock you out with one punch. My brother and I always feel sorry for whoever listens to his crap, so whenever he starts preaching we shout “IANISM! It’s an –ism, don’t listen!”

    No to the -ism.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think Americans are weird....

    Feminism simply means no discrimination. Even men are feminists, normally... . If you are against it as a woman, it's like being black and wanting apartheid, but Americans have some extreme ideas about what feminism is, it seems? It simply means being against discrimination of any gender. Anti-feminism is like being racist, to me. Could anyone explain me what "feminism" means to Americans, since it can't be the same, based on these sort of weird topics.
    I completely agree with what you said and with your common sense definition of what feminism should be.

    But from what I understand, there are lots of ideological splits in modern feminism, especially in academia. One example is the heated battle between sex positive and sex negative feminists, which doesn't have an immediate answer, and the many gradations in opinion between these two extremes. At the one extreme of sex-positivity you have feminists like Naomi Wolf, and at the other end you have Gail Dines. Feminist opinions are so idiosyncratic -- at least from what I've seen -- that it's impossible to identify a one true feminism.

    Most, if not all, self-identified feminists (and modern women and men in general, including those tumblr users) would probably agree with your definition as a baseline of what feminism should be. The problem comes when people try to build on top of that.


    EDIT: Feminism is one of the most diverse movements in history. Seriously.
    Last edited by xerx; 07-20-2014 at 09:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think Americans are weird....

    Feminism simply means no discrimination. Even men are feminists, normally... . If you are against it as a woman, it's like being black and wanting apartheid, but Americans have some extreme ideas about what feminism is, it seems? It simply means being against discrimination of any gender. Anti-feminism is like being racist, to me. Could anyone explain me what "feminism" means to Americans, since it can't be the same, based on these sort of weird topics.
    i wonder if it has to do with how politics in general is treated here. like picking a sports team and rooting for it to beat the other side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think Americans are weird....

    Feminism simply means no discrimination. Even men are feminists, normally... . If you are against it as a woman, it's like being black and wanting apartheid, but Americans have some extreme ideas about what feminism is, it seems? It simply means being against discrimination of any gender. Anti-feminism is like being racist, to me. Could anyone explain me what "feminism" means to Americans, since it can't be the same, based on these sort of weird topics.
    OMG YES. Thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I completely agree with what you said and with your common sense definition of what feminism should be.

    But from what I understand, there are lots of ideological splits in modern feminism, especially in academia. One example is the heated battle between sex positive and sex negative feminists, which doesn't have an immediate answer, and the many gradations in opinion between these two extremes. At the one extreme of sex-positivity you have feminists like Naomi Wolf, and at the other end you have Gail Dines. Feminist opinions are so idiosyncratic -- at least from what I've seen -- that it's impossible to identify a one true feminism.

    Most, if not all, self-identified feminists (and modern women and men in general, including those tumblr users) would agree with your definition as a baseline of what feminism should be. The problem comes when people try to build on top of that.
    Yeah, I totally agree with you. But the biggest problem is that there are a looot of people (unfortunately even a bunch of educated women ), who seem unable to comprehend even the common sense definition above, even if you explain it to them one million time. Feminism somehow became a dirty word (even girls are afraid to say they consider themselves feminists, unless they want to be accused of being men haters, which to me is just bizzare), while LGBT and racial equality are well-understood and supported concepts by most (liberal) western people (anti-rasicm especially I think).

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    There are fanatical/radical/weird people in Europe just as there are fanatical people in the US. It’s ignorant to say otherwise.
    It’s not feminism itself that annoys me; it’s some of the irrational fanatics who often come with it. And it’s not just feminism, it’s any –ism. You can add religion and atheism to the mix too. All are pretty diverse.

    I think:

    “Wherever the crowd goes, run the other direction. They’re always wrong.”
    -Charles Bukowski
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Egalitarianism is good enough and doesn't need to be defined twice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Egalitarianism is good enough and doesn't need to be defined twice.


    Most "isms" end with the people involved trying to push their own views, agendas, thoughts and feelings on other people though. I like optimism but I try not to push it.

    http://phrontistery.info/isms.html



    Word Definition
    absolutism doctrine of government by a single absolute ruler; autocracy
    absurdism doctrine that we live in an irrational universe
    academicism doctrine that nothing can be known
    accidentalism theory that events do not have causes
    acosmism disbelief in existence of eternal universe distinct from God
    adamitism nakedness for religious reasons
    adevism denial of gods of mythology and legend
    adiaphorism doctrine of theological indifference or latitudinarianism
    adoptionism belief that Christ was the adopted and not natural son of God
    aestheticism doctrine that beauty is central to other moral principles
    agapism ethics of love
    agathism belief in ultimate triumph of good despite evil means
    agnosticism doctrine that we can know nothing beyond material phenomena
    anarchism doctrine that all governments should be abolished
    animism attribution of soul to inanimate objects
    annihilationism doctrine that the wicked are utterly destroyed after death
    anthropomorphism attribution of human qualities to non-human things
    anthropotheism belief that gods are only deified men
    antidisestablishmentarianism doctrine opposed to removing Church of England's official religion status
    antilapsarianism denial of doctrine of the fall of humanity
    antinomianism doctrine of the rejection of moral law
    antipedobaptism denial of validity of infant baptism
    apocalypticism doctrine of the imminent end of the world
    asceticism doctrine that self-denial of the body permits spiritual enlightenment
    aspheterism denial of the right to private property
    atheism belief that there is no God
    atomism belief that the universe consists of small indivisible particles
    autosoterism belief that one can obtain salvation through oneself
    autotheism belief that one is God incarnate or that one is Christ
    bitheism belief in two gods
    bonism the doctrine that the world is good but not perfect
    bullionism belief in the importance of metallic currency in economics
    capitalism doctrine that private ownership and free markets should govern economies
    casualism the belief that chance governs all things
    catabaptism belief in the wrongness of infant baptism
    catastrophism belief in rapid geological and biological change
    collectivism doctrine of communal control of means of production
    collegialism theory that church is independent from the state
    communism theory of classless society in which individuals cannot own property
    conceptualism theory that universal truths exist as mental concepts
    conservatism belief in maintaining political and social traditions
    constructivism belief that knowledge and reality do not have an objective value
    cosmism belief that the cosmos is a self-existing whole
    cosmotheism the belief that identifies God with the cosmos
    deism belief in God but rejection of religion
    determinism doctrine that events are predetermined by preceding events or laws
    diphysitism belief in the dual nature of Christ
    ditheism belief in two equal gods, one good and one evil
    ditheletism doctrine that Christ had two wills
    dualism doctrine that the universe is controlled by one good and one evil force
    egalitarianism belief that humans ought to be equal in rights and privileges
    egoism doctrine that the pursuit of self-interest is the highest good
    egotheism identification of oneself with God
    eidolism belief in ghosts
    emotivism theory that moral statements are inherently biased
    empiricism doctrine that the experience of the senses is the only source of knowledge
    entryism doctrine of joining a group to change its policies
    epiphenomenalism doctrine that mental processes are epiphenomena of brain activity
    eternalism the belief that matter has existed eternally
    eudaemonism ethical belief that happiness equals morality
    euhemerism explanation of mythology as growing out of history
    existentialism doctrine of individual human responsibility in an unfathomable universe
    experientialism doctrine that knowledge comes from experience
    fallibilism the doctrine that empirical knowledge is uncertain
    fatalism doctrine that events are fixed and humans are powerless
    fideism doctrine that knowledge depends on faith over reason
    finalism belief that an end has or can be reached
    fortuitism belief in evolution by chance variation
    functionalism doctrine emphasising utility and function
    geocentrism belief that Earth is the centre of the universe
    gnosticism belief that freedom derives solely from knowledge
    gradualism belief that things proceed by degrees
    gymnobiblism belief that the Bible can be presented to unlearned without commentary
    hedonism belief that pleasure is the highest good
    henism doctrine that there is only one kind of existence
    henotheism belief in one tribal god, but not as the only god
    historicism belief that all phenomena are historically determined
    holism doctrine that parts of any thing must be understood in relation to the whole
    holobaptism belief in baptism with total immersion in water
    humanism belief that human interests and mind are paramount
    humanitarianism doctrine that the highest moral obligation is to improve human welfare
    hylicism materialism
    hylomorphism belief that matter is cause of the universe
    hylopathism belief in ability of matter to affect the spiritual world
    hylotheism belief that the universe is purely material
    hylozoism doctrine that all matter is endowed with life
    idealism belief that our experiences of the world consist of ideas
    identism doctrine that objective and subjective, or matter and mind, are identical
    ignorantism doctrine that ignorance is a favourable thing
    illuminism belief in an inward spiritual light
    illusionism belief that the external world is philosophy
    imagism doctrine of use of precise images with unrestricted subject
    immanentism belief in an immanent or permanent god
    immaterialism the doctrine that there is no material substance
    immoralism rejection of morality
    indifferentism the belief that all religions are equally valid
    individualism belief that individual interests and rights are paramount
    instrumentalism doctrine that ideas are instruments of action
    intellectualism belief that all knowledge is derived from reason
    interactionism belief that mind and body act on each other
    introspectionism doctrine that knowledge of mind must derive from introspection
    intuitionism belief that the perception of truth is by intuition
    irreligionism system of belief that is hostile to religions
    kathenotheism polytheism in which each god is considered single and supreme
    kenotism doctrine that Christ rid himself of divinity in becoming human
    laicism doctrine of opposition to clergy and priests
    latitudinarianism doctrine of broad liberality in religious belief and conduct
    laxism belief that an unlikely opinion may be safely followed
    legalism belief that salvation depends on strict adherence to the law
    liberalism doctrine of social change and tolerance
    libertarianism doctrine that personal liberty is the highest value
    malism the belief that the world is evil
    materialism belief that matter is the only extant substance
    mechanism belief that life is explainable by mechanical forces
    meliorism the belief the world tends to become better
    mentalism belief that the world can be explained as aspect of the mind
    messianism belief in a single messiah or saviour
    millenarianism belief that an ideal society will be produced in the near future
    modalism belief in unity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
    monadism theory that there exist ultimate units of being
    monergism theory that the Holy Spirit alone can act
    monism belief that all things can be placed in one category
    monophysitism belief that Christ was primarily divine but in human form
    monopsychism belief that individuals have a single eternal soul
    monotheism belief in only one God
    monotheletism belief that Christ had only one will
    mortalism belief that the soul is mortal
    mutualism belief in mutual dependence of society and the individual
    nativism belief that the mind possesses inborn thoughts
    naturalism belief that the world can be explained in terms of natural forces
    necessarianism theory that actions are determined by prior history; fatalism
    neonomianism theory that the gospel abrogates earlier moral codes
    neovitalism theory that total material explanation is impossible
    nihilism denial of all reality; extreme scepticism
    nominalism doctrine that naming of things defines reality
    nomism view that moral conduct consists in observance of laws
    noumenalism belief in existence of noumena
    nullibilism denial that the soul exists in space
    numenism belief in local deities or spirits
    objectivism doctrine that all reality is objective
    omnism belief in all religions
    optimism doctrine that we live in the best of all possible worlds
    organicism conception of life or society as an organism
    paedobaptism doctrine of infant baptism
    panaesthetism theory that consciousness may inhere generally in matter
    pancosmism theory that the material universe is all that exists
    panegoism solipsism
    panentheism belief that world is part but not all of God’s being
    panpsychism theory that all nature has a psychic side
    pansexualism theory that all thought derived from sexual instinct
    panspermatism belief in origin of life from extraterrestrial germs
    pantheism belief that the universe is God; belief in many gods
    panzoism belief that humans and animals share vital life energy
    parallelism belief that matter and mind don’t interact but relate
    pejorism severe pessimism
    perfectibilism doctrine that humans capable of becoming perfect
    perfectionism doctrine that moral perfection constitutes the highest value
    personalism doctrine that humans possess spiritual freedom
    pessimism doctrine that the universe is essentially evil
    phenomenalism belief that phenomena are the only realities
    physicalism belief that all phenomena reducible to verifiable assertions
    physitheism attribution of physical form and attributes to deities
    pluralism belief that reality consists of several kinds or entities
    polytheism belief in multiple deities
    positivism doctrine that that which is not observable is not knowable
    pragmatism doctrine emphasizing practical value of philosophy
    predestinarianism belief that what ever is to happen is already fixed
    prescriptivism belief that moral edicts are merely orders with no truth value
    primitivism doctrine that a simple and natural life is morally best
    privatism attitude of avoiding involvement in outside interests
    probabiliorism belief that when in doubt one must choose most likely answer
    probabilism belief that knowledge is always probable but never absolute
    psilanthropism denial of Christ's divinity
    psychism belief in universal soul
    psychomorphism doctrine that inanimate objects have human mentality
    psychopannychism belief souls sleep from death to resurrection
    psychotheism doctrine that God is a purely spiritual entity
    pyrrhonism total or radical skepticism
    quietism doctrine of enlightenment through mental tranquility
    racism belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities
    rationalism belief that reason is the fundamental source of knowledge
    realism doctrine that objects of cognition are real
    reductionism belief that complex phenomena are reducible to simple ones
    regalism doctrine of the monarch's supremacy in church affairs
    representationalism doctrine that ideas rather than external objects are basis of knowledge
    republicanism belief that a republic is the best form of government
    resistentialism humorous theory that inanimate objects display malice towards humans
    romanticism belief in sentimental feeling in artistic expression
    sacerdotalism belief that priests are necessary mediators between God and mankind
    sacramentarianism belief that sacraments have unusual properties
    scientism belief that the methods of science are universally applicable
    self-determinism doctrine that the actions of a self are determined by itself
    sensationalism belief that ideas originate solely in sensation
    sexism belief in systematic inequalities between the sexes
    siderism belief that the stars influence human affairs
    skepticism doctrine that true knowledge is always uncertain
    socialism doctrine of centralized state control of wealth and property
    solarism excessive use of solar myths in explaining mythology
    solifidianism doctrine that faith alone will ensure salvation
    solipsism theory that self-existence is the only certainty
    somatism materialism
    spatialism doctrine that matter has only spatial, temporal and causal properties
    spiritualism belief that nothing is real except the soul or spirit
    stercoranism belief that the consecrated Eucharist is digested and evacuated
    stoicism belief in indifference to pleasure or pain
    subjectivism doctrine that all knowledge is subjective
    substantialism belief that there is a real existence underlying phenomena
    syndicalism doctrine of direct worker control of capital
    synergism belief that human will and divine spirit cooperate in salvation
    terminism doctrine that there is a time limit for repentance
    thanatism belief that the soul dies with the body
    theism belief in the existence of God without special revelation
    theocentrism belief that God is central fact of existence
    theopantism belief that God is the only reality
    theopsychism belief that the soul is of a divine nature
    thnetopsychism belief that the soul dies with the body, to be reborn on day of judgement
    titanism spirit of revolt or defiance against social conventions
    tolerationism doctrine of toleration of religious differences
    totemism belief that a group has a special kinship with an object or animal
    transcendentalism theory that emphasizes that which transcends perception
    transmigrationism belief that soul passes into other body at death
    trialism doctrine that humans have three separate essences (body, soul, spirit)
    tritheism belief that the members of the Trinity are separate gods
    triumphalism belief in the superiority of one particular religious creed
    tuism theory that individuals have a second or other self
    tutiorism doctrine that one should take the safer moral course
    tychism theory that accepts role of pure chance
    ubiquitarianism belief that Christ is everywhere
    undulationism theory that light consists of waves
    universalism belief in universal salvation
    utilitarianism belief that utility of actions determines moral value
    vitalism the doctrine that there is a vital force behind life
    voluntarism belief that the will dominates the intellect
    zoism doctrine that life originates from a single vital principle
    zoomorphism conception of a god or man in animal form
    zootheism attribution of divine qualities to animals

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    It’s not feminism itself that annoys me; it’s some of the irrational fanatics who often come with it. And it’s not just feminism, it’s any –ism. You can add religion and atheism to the mix too. All are pretty diverse.
    I agree, irrational fanatics of any kind should be eliminated (whoops, do I sound like an irational fanatic )

    I think:

    “Wherever the crowd goes, run the other direction. They’re always wrong.”
    -Charles Bukowski
    Weeeell...is this your and InJim's motto ? I agree with the general idea though, but I would go with usually instead of always.

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    Extremely relevant:


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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I agree, irrational fanatics of any kind should be eliminated (whoops, do I sound like an irational fanatic )



    Weeeell...is this your and InJim's motto ? I agree with the general idea though, but I would go with usually instead of always.
    No. I don't think you do, though I don't think they should be eliminated... I just disagree with their antics.

    In my experience it's been always, but good point.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    @Radio's video.

    more power to her. whatever she wants...

    Te Polr?

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Egalitarianism is good enough and doesn't need to be defined twice.
    as far as i can tell this is often just a politically correct way of saying you don't agree with policies and views that are beneficial to women specifically. like, why define feminism twice? i don't think you are sexist or anything. but i don't get the point of this.

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    Marshmallow Foru-m chriscorey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    ^ more power to her. whatever she wants...

    Te Polr?

    @Radio's video.
    I have no idea what the woman is saying because I have no audio on my computer.

    I do follow:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I agree with those who think having a term like "feminism" to describe the desire to have equality is something of a nonsense. Having the stated aim of advocacy in whatever area is far better.
    EII-Ne
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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I agree with those who think having a term like "feminism" to describe the desire to have equality is something of a nonsense. Having the stated aim of advocacy in whatever area is far better.
    yeah, in the same manner "gay rights" is a stupid term. It should be called "people rights" so as to not discriminate against straight people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Egalitarianism is good enough and doesn't need to be defined twice.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egalitarian

    Muahahahahaha!!!
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    yeah, in the same manner "gay rights" is a stupid term. It should be called "people rights" so as to not discriminate against straight people.
    My view might seem inconsistent, but "gay rights", "women's rights" etc. would be the sort of thing I refer to as to indicating advocacy of a position. I guess though that something like "men's rights" will seem especially loaded...

    My view is that there should be "sexual equality" or whatever, not "gayism".
    EII-Ne
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    I'm against women against feminism on the grounds that it reinforces gender roles. In an ideal world people would all be ungendered eccentric hermits like me who are completely unable to internalise social noumena like gender.

    Like, fuck, people. If you're going to arbitrarily divide things, at least arbitrarily divide things into prime-numbered groups of 5 or greater. At least it's more interesting that way.

    scribbles in the dark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    My view might seem inconsistent, but "gay rights", "women's rights" etc. would be the sort of thing I refer to as to indicating advocacy of a position. I guess though that something like "men's rights" will seem especially loaded...

    My view is that there should be "sexual equality" or whatever, not "gayism".
    Something like "human rights", perhaps?

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    I'm so modern I'm against nothing.
    EII-Ne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Something like "human rights", perhaps?
    why bother wasting time with such labels? It is far easier to say how you actually want things to be. Each individual works towards whatever they think is right, if they can (unless they are a philosopher).
    EII-Ne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holon View Post
    In an ideal world people would all be ungendered eccentric hermits like me who are completely unable to internalise social noumena like gender.
    Seems like I'm well on the way to achieving that, too.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    why bother wasting time with such labels? It is far easier to say how you actually want things to be. Each individual works towards whatever they think is right, if they can (unless they are a philosopher).
    theres never gonna be a perfect language where everything someone says is understood exactly how they want it to be or how they really meant it before putting words to it. if "egalitarianism" or "human rights" was the commonly understood replacement word for feminism would it have the same connotations anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    theres never gonna be a perfect language where everything someone says is understood exactly how they want it to be or how they really meant it before putting words to it. if "egalitarianism" or "human rights" was the commonly understood replacement word for feminism would it have the same connotations anyway?
    Feminism as it is has a widespread range of connotations and doesn't explicitly (as a word) state that women should have equal rights with men...or whether they should have rights that are equitable. It also doesn't suggest a proactive approach for whatever position, or how such an approach should be. Why does such a wide spectrum of views need to be attached to such a short word or even one word? I think also if you say lobby a politician as a self-labeled "feminist" group, you are unnecessarily detracting from whatever cause you have for little reason (but this view comes from the perception that "feminism" is a word with a lot of baggage).

    It is all very well showing sympathy for the position by having a t-shirt saying "This is what a feminist looks like", but in such an instance, it seems to me that a person is aiming far more on making the word "feminism" acceptable than on actually stating what their views are and achieving such goals.
    EII-Ne
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Feminism as it is has a widespread range of connotations and doesn't explicitly (as a word) state that women should have equal rights with men...or whether they should have rights that are equitable. It also doesn't suggest a proactive approach for whatever position, or how such an approach should be. Why does such a wide spectrum of views need to be attached to such a short word or even one word?
    i don't think it needs to be - thats exactly what i was trying to say. i can see how a more neutral term can reduce knee jerk decisiveness but if somebody has a knee jerk decisive reaction against the word feminism then they tend to have too many incorrect preconceived notions about what my values are to have a constructive discussion with them anyway.

    It is all very well showing sympathy for the position by having a t-shirt saying "This is what a feminist looks like", but in such an instance, it seems to me that a person is aiming far more on making the word "feminism" acceptable than on actually stating what their views are and achieving such goals.
    i understand wanting to try to dismantle peoples wrong ideas about feminism so that you can have a clearer mutual understanding in which to talk about it. but i think you have a point. gtg

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    2 EVIL I golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think Americans are weird....

    Feminism simply means no discrimination. Even men are feminists, normally... . If you are against it as a woman, it's like being black and wanting apartheid, but Americans have some extreme ideas about what feminism is, it seems? It simply means being against discrimination of any gender. Anti-feminism is like being racist, to me. Could anyone explain me what "feminism" means to Americans, since it can't be the same, based on these sort of weird topics.
    One possibility is that because there's a strong strain of anti-socialism in the U.S. (despite plenty of socialist programs in place here as givens), we have serious limitations on equalization, such as women getting real support after having a child. In the U.S., women are financially penalized for having kids, and socially penalized for not having them.

    The mothers I met in Western Europe were doing better than U.S. moms. Mothers still had some disadvantages compared to men, but not like what happens here. And of course, not only were super basic rights to birth control and abortion not even in question, but reproductive medical care and medication were largely covered, for everyone.

    Without making steady progress toward actual equality, and without access to levers of power to effect equality, feminists here appear to cannibalize their own movement. They go in circles with theoretical arguments and infighting; they address issues like "the male gaze" and whatnot via academia in order to get tenure, which may have some value but probably doesn't mean jack shit when the basics aren't even in place. It's cart before horse.

    Puritan legacy ... crazy religious dingbats perpetually hacking away at women ... we're pretty fuckin' stupid.

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    Feminism or ists have faugh for rights for women and thus have created a culture where violence is not acceptable. It's been good for women overall. With that there are all degrees of feminism. I'm traditional with traditional values however I love to work and be productive so I like my independence. I wouldn't call myself a feminist.

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