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Thread: Integral Types: How did America become ENTj?

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    Default Integral Types: How did America become ENTj?

    I took history classes but and remember some of the events that were key in creating America, but I'm curious how the country became ENTj, it is like giving birth to a child. Was there a demand for it to become ENTj? Was it the spirit of the people at the time? Was it because of the entitie's survival tactics? What personality type was the decision making process lead by?
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    ..... america was just in the right place at the right time. It is a lucky country because it had so many natural resources.

    I really don't know if you can contribute it's 'success' to a psychological function...


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    It was all in the creation of the constitution because thats what solidified Americas values. There were a lot of heated debates during its making and they were probably Te vs. Ti and Fe vs. Fi arguments. Somehow the public felt that the Te method would work better for them at the time. Since you can't really mix both into your system without becoming indecisive the country grew more and more ENTj. I think that at the end of a country's life span the country becomes so extreme that its internal components suffer. Americas health is its people getting what they need in the right proportions. This country also has a very high rate of mental illness, which I think is due to the lack of Fe.
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    i don''t really think america is all that entj. corporate culture seems to be but that is hardly american culture. i really really really do not think america has a unified social culture though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP II
    ..... america was just in the right place at the right time. It is a lucky country because it had so many natural resources.
    It's a bit more than that. Plenty of places have many natural resources and remain impoverished shit-bins.
    right place, right time. Lots of "Enligtenment" theories coming over from Europe, etc. Or whatever that philosophical period was.

    ========
    ========

    It was all in the creation of the constitution because thats what solidified Americas values.
    Most successful organizations have good Mission Statements.


    If you are interested in things like this, chekc out Covey's 8th Habit. It's kind of an interesting twist on what you are talking about here... but more so focusing on how to get to the next leve -- which is what I like to think about.


    [quote]This country also has a very high rate of mental illness, which I think is due to the lack of Fe.[/quote

    We also have a shitload of people in jail, too.

    We've got a lot of room for improvement, that's for sure. I don't know if it so much lacking, but it is because so much emphasis is placed on individuality. On "Scarcity Mentality" --- there can only be 1 no. 1, etc. Things like that. Captalism has it's pros and cons, that is for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    i don''t really think america is all that entj. corporate culture seems to be but that is hardly american culture. i really really really do not think america has a unified social culture though
    I agree. I was just thinking earlier today that, really, every type is discredited in our society somehow and whatever is valued isn't a type but some sort of amalgam of non-type behaviors. I also think perhaps that our society might value the ENFj or whatever type Jadae is (although our society is not that type itself.)
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Maybe our states or cities have types, and then they are governed within another metaphisical construct. But the state that has most voting power gives america itself its type. If this is true and power fluctuates, then america must have a split personality disorder....

    Psychologist: America, can I please speak to New York
    America: This is New York, why do you summon me....


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    i hate it when pedro the lion and cone say everything i want to say. anyhow, i concur. america isn't ENTj.
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    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    I'm moving to europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    It just seems a redundancy of infos, the american website that is. I thought that due to they'd be more likely to outline the essentials instead of adding tons of useless crap?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    It just seems a redundancy of infos, the american website that is. I thought that due to they'd be more likely to outline the essentials instead of adding tons of useless crap?
    You just reminded me about how Te format documents make me dizzy, because I dont want people telling me what the essentials are. I need to know the attributes of what they call essentials, so that I can know for sure which is the essential for me. Basically I don;t want to be looking at logical heirarchies with structure, I would rather see the raw data in table format and generate the structures myself internally based on what feel is high priority. Ebay and other search results are nice like that because they allow you to list the results descending or ascending according you the factor you feel is more important. News paper ads force the structure.

    Te people must have invented the H1, H2, H3... html tags.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    It just seems a redundancy of infos, the american website that is. I thought that due to they'd be more likely to outline the essentials instead of adding tons of useless crap?
    in Europe? Hmm, I don't know. It could be over here aswell. I don't know. But the difference in that I see in these is not only the information overload on the American version but a more relaxing color scheme and antialias etc on the Danish one.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    It just seems a redundancy of infos, the american website that is. I thought that due to they'd be more likely to outline the essentials instead of adding tons of useless crap?
    in Europe? Hmm, I don't know. It could be over here aswell. I don't know. But the difference in that I see in these is not only the information overload on the American version but a more relaxing color scheme and antialias etc on the Danish one.
    Ah yeah, it just gives off a better impression.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    I don't think this has anything to do with, much less does it determine, anything about America. It's one freaking website. Wtf? It's like me going to this website: http://www.nigeria.com/ and then saying that Nigerian people are really simplistic in that they don't like a lot of flashy graphics but they love to advertise a lot of things.
    Nigeria isn't very good at web design, they must be an old INFj who doesn;t know about aesthetic ballance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    I don't think this has anything to do with, much less does it determine, anything about America. It's one freaking website. Wtf? It's like me going to this website: http://www.nigeria.com/ and then saying that Nigerian people are really simplistic in that they don't like a lot of flashy graphics but they love to advertise a lot of things.
    Yeah, it was an example. I could of course send you my intire firefox history, but we wouldn't want that.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamicism
    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    Something that speeks for ENTj, is the lack of . Most anything from the US is more than things from around here. I'm not talking about art etc, but the everyday stuff.

    An easy way to compare different esthetical traditions is looking at websites from different parts of the world. This only one example, but it's quite characteristic of the difference between US layouts and the European.

    American low budget web hotel
    Danish low budget web hotel
    I don't think this has anything to do with, much less does it determine, anything about America. It's one freaking website. Wtf? It's like me going to this website: http://www.nigeria.com/ and then saying that Nigerian people are really simplistic in that they don't like a lot of flashy graphics but they love to advertise a lot of things.
    Yeah, it was an example. I could of course send you my intire firefox history, but we wouldn't want that.

    I do know what you mean... you were giving your example as a single component of the pattern collection method you use, to paint your Ne probability canvas and then look for the darkest smudges. People without Ne wouldn't understand this I dont think, unless they accept what you can do, which is kinda hard if you don't do it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    I do know what you mean... you were giving your example as a single component of the pattern collection method you use, to paint your Ne probability canvas and then look for the darkest smudges. People without Ne wouldn't understand this I dont think, unless they accept what you can do, which is kinda hard if you don't do it.
    Definitely. And that's why rocks. :wink: So it's hard for some to accept, but it saves us a lot of time not being obsessed with minor details.

    (But these actually weren't even the darkest smudges. I've just spent a lot of time on godaddy and am sort of amazed by the chaos, both when it comes to information and esthetics.)
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Maybe our states or cities have types, and then they are governed within another metaphisical construct. But the state that has most voting power gives america itself its type. If this is true and power fluctuates, then america must have a split personality disorder....
    if you think politics controls the usa then you are sadly mistaken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Maybe our states or cities have types, and then they are governed within another metaphisical construct. But the state that has most voting power gives america itself its type. If this is true and power fluctuates, then america must have a split personality disorder....
    if you think politics controls the usa then you are sadly mistaken
    What would you say controls it? Also, is there an indirect force politics exudes on the country.
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    i think it is naive to think in terms of single influeces. that is only necessary when you are trying to isolate the effects of different things upon something rather than the opposite. i do think that politics has an overarching impact on the usa in two senses a) that it affects all people (but i do not believe this necessitates a uniform response as "politics" is a compliation of many things and persons respond to different facets of it) 2) if you go back far enough in the chain of influence you eventually find everything being interrelated.

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    Funny, must be my cause I thought the american site looked much better, thinking of the other one as boring and too simple to be professional. Funky how we all think.

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    I think the misconception of America being ENTj is that it is based on a capitalist system. Now, the fact that I believe capitalism equals Te could be a misconception as well, but most perceive it as such. When I look at the world, all I see is Capitalism right before my eyes at work constantly as people's selfish needs are fulfilled everywhere you look, thus boosting the economy endlessly. Overall, I believe it depends on what category your looking at it. Economically speaking it is ENTj, however culturally it could be defined as ESTp or anything else. Socially it could be defined as ESFj and so on.
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    Default Integral Type of United States

    Can you type the US States?

    I'm thinking Texas is ESFj?

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    hahaha. Only 2 things come outta texas!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    Can you type the US States?

    I'm thinking Texas is ESFj?
    Oh goody, my dual. Except that that makes me an unnatural Texan.

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    hahaha. Only 2 things come outta texas!
    What are those?



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    most definitely:

    Texas = ENFj/ISTj. jesus christ. this is obvious. when i think of texas i think of some really annoying talkative girl talking about who's got money in town. A bad terrible ENFj stereotype. Just like ISTj is a good ol' boy stereotype.

    Colorado = Super Delta state. Likely ESTj/ENFp. Tons and tons of outdoor adventure stuff, but also many conservatives.

    Those are the ones that i think have definite identities. i haven't travelled alot.
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    i agree with you heathiep

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    i think massachusetts (or at least Boston) is ILI for a few reasons...

    - it's relatively not a social place similar to new york in that people mind their own business and aren't friendly.

    -it's perceiving in that the weather is so unpredictable and constantly changing- in the morning you'll leave the house with a light coat on and by the afternoon it'll be windy and torrential rains, and then by the evening it'll be warm and sunny haha

    - it's very in that it is a very historic place (boston especially) with brownstones and a lot of historical things still in tact.

    - it's very in that there a bjillion colleges in massachusetts and museums and libraries. very geared toward the accumulation of knowledge in general.

    - it values in that if you work hard in college or at your job you can get pretty things which are flaunted in the expensive, ritzy shops on Newbury Street and in the Prudential Center. things are very expensive here- boston was voted the most expensive city in america in 2005 (http://www.baystatebanner.com/archiv...5/091505-3.htm).

    - i can't think of why it values ... but ill try to think of something.

    - everything, even cvs, closes at 2am- to my own dismay haha. however, when complaining about this to one of my ILI friends they happen to remind me that nothing good is bound to happen after 2am. so i guess in a way boston is watching out for me to make sure i don't make any stupid decisions... haha nice try boston but you're gonna need to try harder.


    these are just my intial impressions... i'm gonna try to think of some other reasons why it's ILI- if any massholes or anyone else would like to give some constructive criticism it would be very helpful.
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    Wyoming and Montana seem like ISTp states to me.
    Nevada - ENTj

    Texas though... hmm. If I were to type something like Texas, things that come to mind would be mindsets like "Everything's bigger in Texas".

    I dunno, I think my perspective is skewed a bit since Austin really goes against the grain of the mindset of the overall state, I think. I kind of see Austin as a sort of sibling city to one like San Francisco.

    There is a stick-my-nose-up-to-the-rest-of-the-country-because-our-way-is-better kind of feel that I detect. ISTj sounds reasonable to me.

    Edit: Although, Texas is also known for its hospitality. So, it does seem a bit rough around the edges, but there is a warmth to the state.
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    yes.. the way i see it, the southern states are beta. a few may be alpha. I see some of the midsouth as INFp too. Like salient but accepting and ready for challenge. i see the deep south like Louisiana and stuff to be beta. New Orleans. Beta.
    Except florida i see as Fi. Maybe FiSe. Or maybe it's just DJ.

    the mountain states are delta.

    The great lake area is NT or gamma

    some of the east coast is alpha (NH, DE, VT). Maine is alpha delta, Rhode Island is like NT. New york might be gamma.

    What are some alpha states?

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    im thinking maybe minnesota is alpha NT

    Missouri might be alpha or beta

    tennessee and kentucky might be alpha or beta, like more creative alpha

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    In regards to a type for overall USA, as an outsider, i've thought about this one once or twice. I'm not quite ready to put a type on it, but I would say whatever type it is, i'd say its pretty much either a Te or Se base.

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    what about new york? i'm thinking LIE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I strongly dislike MN, it's beta Ti gone wrong, with a lot of alpha mixed in. ND is alpha with delta and pockets of beta. NC is alpha. SD is alpha and delta. WA/OR are delta. CA, and TX are too big to type, but the areas I lived in were in CA largely gamma with a bit of beta mixed in, and in TX mostly delta. WY is largely gamma, police force in certain areas suck though so I'll call them beta and there's delta in areas. CO is yep delta. Especially Delta, CO haha. I think that covers every state I've lived in.

    wyo - gamma. i can see that. even at uni.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I strongly dislike MN, it's beta Ti gone wrong, with a lot of alpha mixed in. ND is alpha with delta and pockets of beta. NC is alpha. SD is alpha and delta. WA/OR are delta. CA, and TX are too big to type, but the areas I lived in were in CA largely gamma with a bit of beta mixed in, and in TX mostly delta. WY is largely gamma, police force in certain areas suck though so I'll call them beta and there's delta in areas. CO is yep delta. Especially Delta, CO haha. I think that covers every state I've lived in.
    Good to know. I do hope that despite being of a Gamma disposition that you enjoyed your stay.
    Last edited by Logos; 04-16-2008 at 07:46 PM.
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    Florida is Delta, southern Florida being more and north Florida being more as it is a part of the old south. Plus there are a lot of retirees here as well.

    EDIT

    I would also like to add that there is a little tinge of Alpha here as well, more in some parts (like around Orlando) than others (Arcadia).
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    what about new york? i'm thinking LIE?
    yes I agree
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I strongly dislike MN, it's beta Ti gone wrong, with a lot of alpha mixed in. ND is alpha with delta and pockets of beta. NC is alpha. SD is alpha and delta. WA/OR are delta. CA, and TX are too big to type, but the areas I lived in were in CA largely gamma with a bit of beta mixed in, and in TX mostly delta. WY is largely gamma, police force in certain areas suck though so I'll call them beta and there's delta in areas. CO is yep delta. Especially Delta, CO haha. I think that covers every state I've lived in.

    wow you lived in a lot of states Diana. What's beta Ti in MN? I haven't lived there I've only been to like... 5 states and I didn't type them, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Ah, law-lovers I refer to as beta Ti whether it really is or not. Hehe. They love law there. Solution to every problem seems to be to put another restriction on someone. Most of the people who live there lap it up. The kind of people who would turn in their best friend if they did something "unlawful" while unethically lying to their friend about it. Seem really nice superficially though. Happy, helpful, friendly, kind, hospitable, etc. Mostly good people just odd priorities.

    @Logos: NC was okay. I lived in Charlotte. My family decided their motto should be "A day late and a dollar short" for the lackadaisical attitude that permeated. I was a kid, I didn't care about that. I just disliked living with relatives while there. We had moved there from CA to build my aunt and uncle a house (my uncle asked my dad, and he said he would). Compared to my family they were rich, very annoying, and very unhappy.

    CA was better. Much better. We took showers in the bathroom at a nearby park, lived on a construction site (my sister and I took over a large storage shed for our room for awhile, while everyone else had the camper) and it was much happier, much better. We didn't have to go to school and we got to play on unfinished houses being built, climbing all over the place. And there's always the public library. Almost as good as living in a National forest in CO. We fished every day (which got boring) but we got to play in the trees, and when the game warden showed up, we could say that we didn't have any fish in our possesion (because we had already eaten them.) It was fun. I had a good childhood. Earlier in my life, years prior we lived somewhere else in CO, in a house, and my sister went to Kindergarten there, and I was 3. I played in the yard all the time, eating dandelions in the summer and snow in the winter so I wouldn't have to go back inside and interrupt my play to eat. My mom made me anyway.
    Your description of NC (and Charlotte) sounds incredibly foreign to me, and it sounds mostly related to family and less to NC. And it kind of hurts when I hear "NC was okay" and the designated motto juxtaposed with "CA was better. Much better."
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