What's been your experience? Is it subtype-dependent?
What's been your experience? Is it subtype-dependent?
Last edited by suedehead; 06-26-2014 at 08:44 PM.
Usually kindred since I haven't known as many look alikes irl but when I do connect with one I would say close to equal connections but in different ways.
Edit: I don't think I have ever felt romantic interest in an SEI. If anything I felt a bit protective of them.
Last edited by Aylen; 06-26-2014 at 08:48 PM.
kindred behaves much more like me externally. look a like seems to have similar internal processes.
fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza
I don't have much experience to go off of, but I didn't get along with the two ILE's I knew in highschool, and think some of the famous one's (Howard Stern, Bill Maher, etc.) are rude and don't know how to treat people.
Last edited by suedehead; 06-26-2014 at 09:19 PM.
I relate more to Kindred, but i agree with them less.
I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.
Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.
"...Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly" (the Skin Horse)
kindred tends to feel more native, but I haven't experienced much conflict with look alike.
Mortal, mortal, what would you
With that beauty once was yours?
Perishable is the dew,
And the dust endures.
Kindred: I have a good relationship with an ESE. She really is good at things that sensors are good at, so she helps me in that area. I will be all uncertain in some cooking project and she just takes charge and says lets do it this way and it always turns out great. It is frankly a relief to have her around in many ways because she just rocks the physical world. She is also a deep thinker and a problem solver. She is the more take charge person in our relationship. I know she struggles with Ti, and so uses Te very effectively when necessary and is quicker than me about it.
The area that of course gets to me is Si. She is very certain about what she needs to be comfortable and is very vocal about it. I don't like overfocus on that IE. Fortunately, I have known her for so long that I know what she doesn't like and when she stays with me I have everything just the way she likes it. (No scented soaps, no lemon in her water, I don't wear perfume around her, no windy expeditions (hurts her ears, etc) So there is not much health and comfort discussion around her, yay!
Look-a-like: I don't know any LIEs in real life, but I always enjoy reading things that @Narc and @FDG have posted. I would probably be right at home with their Si polr. We would just suffer together in silence.
Last edited by Iris; 06-27-2014 at 01:46 AM.
You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation.
Some LSEs do things almost exactly like me. I know an LSE from uni that picked the same first subjects for his first year, was in a couple of my classes, smoked like I did, used near identical reasoning to me and even finished his exams at the same time as me (early) and crossed paths with me after completing those exams despite coming from a completely different testing room. Kind of eerie.
That said, I think I get along with EIEs better overall. I feel like Ni creative is as distinct an archetype as Te or Fe base. (Same with Se creative, for that matter.)
I relate to SEE-Fi more socially, but it isn't a perfect match either. The Merry/Serious difference is usually more obvious for me when I look at ENTp's, and then you have the stereotypical NT/Alpha-stuff (memes, computer/board games, recreational drugs, alternative lifestyle, etc.), and the sort of irreverent, hipster-ish attitude about...everything, that some of them have. I feel like some of them just talk 'at' me, and there isn't much that we can talk about with genuine enthusiasm. I mean..I can listen to the things some of the things the sillier ENTp's say and laugh, but not really want to get into it.
Last edited by suedehead; 06-27-2014 at 04:16 AM.
I'm not the biggest fan of ILE. Whenever I'm around them I feel like I have to compete with them, like I need to be funnier, wittier, and smarter. I don't care much for their enthusiasm, either. It's like they expect me to either laugh or go "ooh" and "ahh" at everything they say. One ILE I know constantly makes obscure references to random TV shows, and it makes me feel lost. Despite their seemingly good nature, ILE can sometimes be an insensitive asshole, and I don't like that.
These relations are characterized by commonalities in world view, since kindred partners have same leading function, however their implementing functions are antagonistic to each other. Thus, even though they feel some measure of likeness, they do not understand each other's actions and may perceive them as egoistical. In addition, there can be competition in the areas of leading function. Kindred partners usually acknowledge each other and treat each other by accepted norms conduct, but they are unlikely to show real interest in each other's problems. The interest of a kindred partner in yourself seems superficial. Thus, these relations are not distinguished by interpersonal warmth.
I'm kind of indifferent toward SEE. I often find women of this variety to be physically attractive, but their personality is boring as hell and kind of simple. One time an SEE expressed to me his belief in aliens and UFO encounters, and I immediately became skeptical. Often times SEE and I will discuss how we feel about certain things -- how much we hate that, and how much we love this. Relationships and people are also common topics of conversation.
Theoretically speaking, I think look-alike relations are more comfortable than kindred relations, since the PoLR function is more sensitive than the Role. If an SEE were to say something to me like, "that shirt is a really ugly color", I'd just be like, "whatever, bitch, I've got more important things to worry about than the color of my shirt". But if an ILE were to say something to me like, "your idea is really stupid and illogical", I'd probably feel a little pissed off and hurt.Business partners have the same functions of implementation, so their methods are alike. Communication in a business pair is always lively and long-winded. It has undoubted benefit: partners help each other develop their role-function, orient each other at solving problems, such that their contact resembles business discussion and cooperation. In dealing with your business partner, avoid exerting pressure on each other with your leading functions or communication will turn into an unpleasant verbal match.
scribbles in the dark
How is my answer any more anecdotal than anyone else's? How is using Model A "scientistic"? What the hell is your problem? Is it the attached thumbnail?
I don't think it was a poorly executed joke, but I'm sorry if you were offended.
scribbles in the dark
This is interesting, for me it's look alike. SEIs are fun to relax with, easy to keep a back and forth going.
I have an ILI brother (kindred) that I also enjoy hanging out with, but if he weren't my brother it would be pretty hard to drum up any affection for him.
I have no ILIs around.
The only girl I think is SEI is always talking about her allergies (to pretty everything..), health issues... annoying.
I love both ILI's and SEI's and enjoy hanging out with them.
I don't think anyone would ever confuse me for an ILI, but at first interaction quite easily for SEI. Bottom line, I relate to SEI's more.
I love to be around SEI's a bit more, because of their friendliness, optimism and adorableness, you can't really go wrong with them .
But on the other hand I relate with ILI's for their biting sense of humour and general weird world view.
Romantically I'm much more attracted to ILI's though.
To sum up, IEI's are basically a perfect mixture of both
I like both. EIE can be a bit tiring with their emotional doubts and up&downs.
Lol so true, this is great. BTW ILE doesn't change much - still like that at 50 save the nerdy computer game and drug use thing.
With IEE we perceive the same things but do radically different things with it. IEE likes to climb the ladder and gain influence, effortlessly manipulating people in the course of these goals. They're quite mainstream, into money, property, getting to the top of the power structure. This is fine for their role in the socion but it is diametrically opposed to the contribution of ILE. My experience is that IEE looks down on ILE; ILE doesn't respect IEE. it's probably the polr manifest.
This can make for fierce argumentation. If history is written by the perspective of the dominant, IEE "wins". If history is strategically guided by the embedded structure created by ILE, then ILE "wins". Just remember, age after age the tragic empires of the dominant die.
With SLE there's a degree of complimentarity between Se and Ne and Ti makes setting goals and making progress easy. Cooperation is easy. You cannot become truly close though. And if you try expectations will not be met on either side.
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Look-alikes. I relate to more.
I like them both. Comparatives (Kindred) are ENTp/ILE for me and the one I know best is longtime married to his Dual. Maybe that makes a secure person with many of the kinks worked out. Certainly in the case of his Dual, who is a real dear. I always admired this ILE. He is so talented musically and professionally and he can figure out (and fix!) anything at all. He played piano for our choir when I met him,and he was the most fun. Someone would make a comment and he would play a little line of music to"match"it or enhance it perfectly and we'd all laugh. It really lightened up the load of learning new music all the time (our director wanted to challenge us). And I was very insecure as I like to sing but could not read music and reading music was really needed with this choir. My 2nd Soprano group was small and when the strong lead wasn't there (or was taking a different part since she was so strong) for me to follow I was so insecure, and he was always smiling at me reassuringly, and acted like i was doing just fine. So he has a special place in my heart.
I have Lookalikes in my life - SEE/ESFp for me; including one who helps with my mother. She is a unique soul and has been frustrating a bit, her kind of crazy way of doing things (not following my VERY FEW directions; does things her own way). However she is otherwise dependable and as a person she is easy and enjoyable to talk to. Even though we don't think alike. But I don''t need people or expect people to think like me. Same with my husbands SEE daughter. She really is a delight to have around socially. We are very different in the way we approach things but it doesn't matter. She sometimes does things that seem irresponsible to me but then its her life and we all have different priorities. And she gets the important things down right-enough for anyone and really that's what matters.
So, Kindreds and Lookalikes, to me, are like apples and oranges. Depends on what flavor you are into at the moment.
[So for me it works out that I ADMIRE my Kindreds and ENJOY my Lookalikes. I wonder if it works that way for anyone else?]
I supposed I like to verbally spa with my kindred and be wowed by lookalikes. In all honesty I am healthily envious of both for different reasons.
Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.
In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.
When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.
So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.
The ILE I mentioned I have some theological differences with and he has brought up his view I do not agree with, and also he questioned the practice of a Naturapath I use. I know he has an extremely broad knowledge, so what he says is generally useful. However, he has no clue how deeply I know these two subjects and all the related arguments so i just leave it. If I thought he truly wanted to pursue more knowledge on the topics I would engage him in discussion on them. However I perceive he just wants to share what he thinks, so I leave it. I just don't expect a complete meeting of the minds with him, that's all.
Same could be said of my SEEs, and also like you, at times my response to them is a judgement that they are shallow. But I try to reverse that judgement, and just say we have different priorities. I mean, who says shirt-color is a more important thought than one of my insights? To them my insight might be pedantic and not of much use; not like the practical decision of a just-right color. Also, if they focus on the "shallow"things, it just might be that doing that helps them relax and focus and be their best person, maybe. And that is important. In fact, it might be really psychologically smart for them to choose to do that given whatever their circumstances are, as well as their type.
P.S. Re: Your SEE/alien-encounter comment: Yes, crazy theories and SEEs I have experienced too. However personally I do not rule out the possibility of alien encounters. Though, if they are real, there are probably more fakes around than reals. I don't know. But one SEE I know is a devout Mormon/ Joseph Smith believer, and I think that's even crazier than sex with aliens! Another is a big believer in the Rapture (Tim LaHaye! Left Behind!), and I am not. It is not logical, its bad theology, and its just wrong. (However, I do understand why intelligent and faithful people mistakenly believe in it)...
Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 07-06-2014 at 06:45 PM.
Look alike. Look-alike is generally described as a better relationship, it's also called business. Role function vs Base function is a area of respect between individuals where as creative vs PoLR a area of fear and pain.
Once an individual develops the creative and role function, they will have major problems with the kindred since this is the functions of the Kindred's conflictor where as in a look alike interaction, these are still valued functions.
There's actually a fairly new in the entertainment news ILE-SLE couple that just got publicized, Zac Efron(ILE), Michelle Rodriguez(SLE), you can keep a eye on this relationship if you want to study the dynamic of a look-alike relationship. This is actually a totally non-surprise of a relationship for me.
The mind a killing weapon
The heart an open wound
What about kindred at work? The function of production (creativity) should ram into the others vulnerable function! How would that work out? Like extinguisher? @hkkmr
I relate more to ESI, from my experience so far. I think it is subtype dependent, and maybe if I was LSI-Ti I would relate more to LII.
I don't think I posted at the same time as @Blaze but I read many of her old stuff and it was always so good.
I dunno why but when I read her posts I want her to be my... boss or something. The Ti is *so* nice, and she seems so fair. Sigh.
The mind a killing weapon
The heart an open wound
Look-a-likes on the other hand.. while nice don't really give me anything. It feels kind of shallow. Perhaps subtypes play a large role here. I know a SLI-Te who got on really well with a ILI-Te, whereas my relationship with SEI's I know is shared Si subtype.
As we reach for the stars, we must put away childish things; gods, spirits and other phantasms of the brain. Reality is cruel and unforgiving, yet we must steel ourselves and secure the survival of our race through the unflinching pursuit of science and technology.
- Paradox Interactive