Curious as to what type you think I am. Questionnaire and a lot of photos for VI.
...
Hello,
I was struggling with pictures yesterday... but now it worked, I can see you and I am surprised.
I thought you were a girl based on your questionnaire (I have to do something here @The Martrix, really!)
So my impression is: introverted feeler.
I think you already positioned yourself as IEI and test the forumites out of your curiosity, and not to get typed..
Tell me if I am right?
Pfew I haven't read all this, Delta, likely Introvert, probably EII/INFj.
Haha. I'll tell you at the end what I identify as. I do want to see how I come across by others into Socionics though. I made a questionnaire like a year ago. One dude guessed ISTp/Ip and then changed his mind to INFp after giving me a test, another was sure I was Ip temperament, and then this chick thought I was either ISTp or ESFp based on my VI.Originally Posted by LostInDreams
Hello,
I was struggling with pictures yesterday... but now it worked, I can see you and I am surprised.
I thought you were a girl based on your questionnaire (I have to do something here @The Martrix, really!
So my impression is: introverted feeler.
I think you already positioned yourself as IEI and test the forumites out of your curiosity, and not to get typed..
Tell me if I am right?I've since tried typing myself through many different methods (Reinin, quadra, temperaments, etc) and am fairly confident in my type though.
I guess I'm fairly androgynous (have a good mix of male and female traits). Sometimes makes people think I'm gay. What you said reminds me of a Socionics article I recently read on genders. NFs are said to be the most feminine, with IEIs being least masculine and EIIs, EIEs and IEEs all being runner ups, too. So your conclusion of EII has to do with my femininity? I do think a lot of Fi values seem really feminine.
Delta introvert, most likely EII.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Overall VI (subjective - resemblances, you know) + the description. What pushed the button... you know, compassion, equality, though earthly vibes. Mildness and monotomy. Hippie-ish. Also this aversion towards anything alpha-manly or competitive, emerging all over the place. Peaceful worker's union protester united-we-win fellowship-of-the-ring testosterone-free blue-people-from-Avatar kind of guy - can someone put these into actual sentences?
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/quadras/Delta
http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml#4
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e=Delta_Quadra
I can see my mistake, though, F and N are rather obvious than full Delta (which includes Si and Te): strong focus on people, relationships, etc. Ghandi kind of shit
---
I haven't used Reinin, a few of its dichotomies I consider invalid.
Oh, one more thing. Compare those with the Beta values, where IEI/INFp belongs: the opposite side on the drama scale:
http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/quadras/Beta
http://www.socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml#2
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Beta_Quadra
Note: I read this kind of at random, so it might seem like my conclusion is out of order.
This sounds decidedly not Se-valuing and also Fi-valuing
Si devaluing or just Si weakness? Not sure.
Ok not to be stereotypical but I find that Japan must be some kind of Delta culture, because all the hardcore weeaboos I know tend to be Delta NF. An appreciation for melancholy is decidedly not Alpha.
Sympathy is Fi, empathy is Fe.
Fe-devaluing.
sounds like an intuitive who needs Te.
EII aims for "ideal" human relations. I think eccentricity, when used as you are using it, is typically a way to describe Ne. You say you are "apparently" carefree, but you betray your inward concern with the word "outwardly". EIIs are positivists; you identify as an optimist. Morality is F related, and when the person does it while thumbing their nose at convention and tradition, it usually is a sign of Fi. "Deep" might be a word to describe the deepness of your feelings, or Fi.
Tbh your seeming infinite number of good qualities about yourself reminds me of:
The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life
An EII role variant from Wikisocion. Also fits in well with your lack of practicality. You seem to have borderline holographic cognition here. so I would say EII-Ne. (though ESI is also possible) They're less judgmental pricks than EII-Fis, and can like to joke around.
ok this is a huge one. Your most predominant function seems to be Fi. Strategists have goals while tacticians understand methods. Of the Fi dominant types, EII is a strategist and ESI is tactician. SEEs are also strategists, but they have no trouble in being motivated.
Fi. The current Dalia Lama (a Beta Introvert) once preached that one should "fall in with random companions to prevent detachment". Fe is a lot better at doing that then Fi.
Feeler.
Strong in both Fe and Fi. Seeming preference given to the inner experience.
Unconscious Te at work here. Tbh, anytime I hear the word "patriarchy" I think "FiNe".
Fi-valuing.
Fi. Fe-types typically gel with the situation.
From VI you look like a Fi-type.
My guess is EII-Ne. I think Fi is probably your first function. The overall tone is serious rather than merry. ESI isn't impossible.
IEI-from reading your questionnaire (both what was written in it and the phrasing). Glanced at VI and it doesn't contradict my guess. It's still just a guess though. Sorry for not being more specific (writing from mobile).
I'm not sure I understand, can you develop? Empathy being more visceral, spontaneous but more shallow/transient. And from the opposite POV, sympathy being persistent just generic and less "true"?
It's kind of like in real psychology, how "I know how you feel" is kind of a taboo statement in counseling (or that's what a former psychology teacher of mine told me, at least), far as I can tell. The reason why is that statement is usually followed with an analogy to an emotional experience in the-person-who-said-it's life. It's projection and sometimes the analogy falls through, and the other person doesn't see it as analogous, and they don't think you know how they feel. That's sympathy.
On the other hand, if someone literally has a frown on their face and you go, "You look sad", there's no projection. You're talking about essentially concrete data without a projective overlay. That's empathy.
So, Fi versus Fe. Subjective feeling vs. objective feeling. That's how I understand the words, at least.
@Ollyx2OxenFree: here's another attempt to distinguish between Beta and Delta NFs: does it flatter you when you get the *whole* attention of someone (otherwise) likeable. (Beta) Or does this "snapping" on your person turn you off, preferring moderation/detachment in casual interaction? (Delta)
What do you feel about the expression "I could not live without you"?:
1. possibly great love, passion and attachment (Beta)
2. likely stupidity (Delta)
Awesome, thank you! I very much agree.
I'm getting the sneaking suspicion you ID as IEI? Please be aware that real-life SLEs have literally zero morality (or morality as you are using it, ergo a static set of principles). Most of them would sell out their own mother to Satan if they thought it would help them turn a quick buck. And they'd probably read about three sentences of what you wrote before calling you a "boring ass f a g" and then walking off. (This is of course an exaggeration of Fi-PolR and Merry Quadra, but exaggeration in service of a point nonetheless.)
If that's not true please ignore this, I'd just hate to see you walking around thinking your conflictor is your dual.
With regards Ip temperament, I think you are just a Fi-Ij type who is heavy on your secondary function, Ne (or not so likely Se), which makes you almost a perceiver. Also Fi judgement has less to do with getting things done and more to coming to solidified ethical conclusions about people, actions, etc. ISTp and INFj can look similar because they are introverts in the same quadra (I often type people as X Quadra Introvert or Extrovert when I can't tell). And INFj and INFp can look similar because they are quasi-identicals.
I did not base my idea on your look. But your look confirmed my hunch albeit you being an introverted feeler.Haha. I'll tell you at the end what I identify as. I do want to see how I come across by others into Socionics though. I made a questionnaire like a year ago. One dude guessed ISTp/Ip and then changed his mind to INFp after giving me a test, another was sure I was Ip temperament, and then this chick thought I was either ISTp or ESFp based on my VI.
I guess I'm fairly androgynous (have a good mix of male and female traits). Sometimes makes people think I'm gay. What you said reminds me of a Socionics article I recently read on genders. NFs are said to be the most feminine, with IEIs being least masculine and EIIs, EIEs and IEEs all being runner ups, too. So your conclusion of EII has to do with my femininity? I do think a lot of Fi values seem really feminine.
IEI or EII and even ESI could be possible. I did not get the merry vibe from you though...
That was the impression I got too.
What are you like?Hello,
I was struggling with pictures yesterday... but now it worked, I can see you and I am surprised.
I thought you were a girl based on your questionnaire (I have to do something here @The Martrix, really!
So my impression is: introverted feeler.
I think you already positioned yourself as IEI and test the forumites out of your curiosity, and not to get typed..
Tell me if I am right?
@Ollyx2OxenFree, after a quick read through, my overall impression is NF. The thing that points to Delta and INFj is that you describe yourself as "having good morals".
Ah, I could see that. How would you imagine an Se valuer would feel about power?
Feels like devaluing and weakness to me. I find Si rather useless.Si devaluing or just Si weakness? Not sure.
Oh? Well, with that particular story I enjoy the melancholy. Don't necessarily like all things melancholy. I'm prone to not rereading or rewatching most sad stories. Other favorite manga is One Piece which is really happy-go-lucky with a more Alpha-like vibe.Ok not to be stereotypical but I find that Japan must be some kind of Delta culture, because all the hardcore weeaboos I know tend to be Delta NF. An appreciation for melancholy is decidedly not Alpha.
I've seen people argue for both. This link says Fi is empathy and Fe is sympathy. Makes sense to me because Fi people are more attuned to people on a one-to-one basis so that's good for putting themselves in others' shoes and sharing their feelings. Fe users are attuned to the whole emotional atmosphere/group so it's harder to zero in and share feelings with one person in the group. Not that it really matters, I think it had more so to do with my word choice. I do think I sympathize more than I empathize though.Sympathy is Fi, empathy is Fe.
Really? I would find Fi more polite and constrained with their emotions as they are more tactful and try not to upset others. I expect this sort of conclusion from someone into MBTI (they often think Fe types are the polite types with manners whereas Socionics seems to say Fi is etiquette, sensitivity to others' feelings, etc). It's not too serious of a problem but I do have a hard time containing a smile and laugh a lot when others think the situation isn't funny.Fe-devaluing.
Sounds just like an intuitive ethical type to me (weakened sensation and logic). This all could fit the other NFs too. Lacking attention to the world around oneself is weak Se and I'd argue the same with practicality (a bit of Te, too). I've seen it said that IEIs are the most impractical type. Being bad with money seems more like really weak Te though. I've seen it said for IEIs but haven't look as strongly into EIIs enough to know if it's true with them too (I already have bad credit and I'm 21).sounds like an intuitive who needs Te.
Yeah, I come off as chill or carefree to others like my mother since I don't seem to be actively doing anything. She's an ESE and always active and concerned about things. Which is why she sometimes says I always seem happy since I can joke around and smile through hardship. I'm not outwardly as fussy as she is or look as concerned about my situation. She's partially right in that I'm not that concerned about many of the little things she's concerned with but I don't think that my being less outwardly concern means I'm not concerned at all.EII aims for "ideal" human relations. I think eccentricity, when used as you are using it, is typically a way to describe Ne. You say you are "apparently" carefree, but you betray your inward concern with the word "outwardly". EIIs are positivists; you identify as an optimist. Morality is F related, and when the person does it while thumbing their nose at convention and tradition, it usually is a sign of Fi. "Deep" might be a word to describe the deepness of your feelings, or Fi.
I'd say Intuition+Ethics makes people less prone to respecting tradition (especially Betas).
Hmmm, I'd attribute deep to being able to talk about big topics such as psychology, philosophy, etc, (I guess basically being intuitive and introverted) not necessarily emotionally.
Thanks. The first part of that sentence is really way off though and I'd say I place more weight in achieving goals that internal perfection but not too sure.Tbh your seeming infinite number of good qualities about yourself reminds me of:
The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life
I can get behind that idea. I have to read more about thinking styles.An EII role variant from Wikisocion. Also fits in well with your lack of practicality. You seem to have borderline holographic cognition here. so I would say EII-Ne. (though ESI is also possible) They're less judgmental pricks than EII-Fis, and can like to joke around.
Nice, Reinin. Those with an IP temperament are said to have trouble with self-motivation (a lot of inward activity but trouble going out and doing things due to inferior Pe). I do have a lot of goals and think about them daily (although I feel as if most people do). Just trouble going out and accomplish them. My weaknesses were having a strong and consistent drive in accomplishing them on my own and staying motivated, not having no goals. I'm not aware of any methods I try to follow. Only time I focus on methods over goals is when I think doing something a proposed way would be a waste of time in the long run.ok this is a huge one. Your most predominant function seems to be Fi. Strategists have goals while tacticians understand methods. Of the Fi dominant types, EII is a strategist and ESI is tactician. SEEs are also strategists, but they have no trouble in being motivated.
Yeah. As I said I can get along with anyone. I'm relatively chill. Actually, I could see some Delta in the similar interest part yet I doubt anyone would put down the idea of having similar interests as their friends. Sense of humor is most important though. Really serious people are boring and annoying to be around.Fi. The current Dalia Lama (a Beta Introvert) once preached that one should "fall in with random companions to prevent detachment". Fe is a lot better at doing that then Fi.
Haha, it can be kind of annoying especially seeing all the tumblr feminists. Been trying to learn more about feminism and I agree with some of it in some cases.Unconscious Te at work here. Tbh, anytime I hear the word "patriarchy" I think "FiNe".
Also, I disagree. Deltas typically like tradition and respect it (Si+Te). Throughout the whole questionnaire I've spoken about how I dislike it and look down on it. I don't see how that's unconscious Te. If I value and am weak at Si and Te, I would probably appreciate it more. I also don't think disliking patriarchy is an FiNe thing. Seems like something humanitarians (NFs) would be more prone to bitch about (although likely women, haha).
I can see how that can seem like such but I disagree. Strong Fe users don't act the same way around all their friends either. Went on vacation recently. Was my normal goofy self in bigger groups (possibly more so when my friends were part of it) or at least like that better than how I am one-to-one (I feel more boring that way).Fi-valuing.
I think it has more so to do with introversion. I can still blend in but, when around too many strangers and depending on the environment, I can be more shy.Fi. Fe-types typically gel with the situation.
Thanks for the long response. Didn't agree with a lot of what you said but you did have some good points and why I may not see myself as EII could be because I could be the Ne subtype. I'll look more into it. I typically score IEI-Fe which is strengthened ethics and sensation (which includes both stronger Fe and Fi), in comparison to IEI-Ni with strengthened intuition and logic. I highly doubt ESI. No doubt about being intuitive and ethical (I have horrible sensing). I am most sure about being intuitive.My guess is EII-Ne. I think Fi is probably your first function. The overall tone is serious rather than merry. ESI isn't impossible.
I relate to everything on the merry side though and can't see how you see seriousness. I can't relate to anything in this link on the serious side. I especially hate #2 as it feels forced and old fashioned and recently outwardly told my friend, who introduced me to her friend, right in front of both of them that I find formal introductions awkward and old fashioned. I find when I'm with people, active participation is what I seek and constantly try to do and I'm good at it. I can think of a few instances where my desire for inclusiveness and active participation got me in trouble though. I don't feel comfortable leaving anyone out and try to get people involved or integrated into the group when I'm out with people. My fun does have to do with whether the people I'm around are having fun, too. Perhaps having a more extraverted subtype could be the reason though.
Thanks again.
I am a guy trapped in a girl's body duhWhat are you like?
@Ollyx2OxenFree, after a quick read through, my overall impression is NF. The thing that points to Delta and INFj is that you describe yourself as "having good morals".
But the NF is a good choice for the OP, I concur.
EDIT: HAH! My hunch was valid, you do identify yourself with IEI, @Ollyx2OxenFree!
Of course I'd like getting attention from someone likeable. I almost feel like I'm misinterpreting that question and barely understand your delta example.
As far as that expression goes, it depends, lol. I like the idea when it's someone I love. I'll generally appreciate it but I can also find something like that creepy depending on how I feel about them. That's normal though. Why wouldn't an Fi dom appreciate that though?
Then I am a girl trapped in as guy's body!I am a guy trapped in a girl's body duhLet's swap bodies!
@Ollyx2OxenFree, from the questionnaire you come off as an EII.
On Merry vs Serious, do you see human nature being constantly changing with the roles in which one inhabits, or do see it being set in stone, and that everyone has their own unique essence that transcends roles? So basically, role play vs individuality.
Haha. Oh, I'm aware.
Thanks for your concern though. I have an SLE sister (she's in like two of the pictures I posted for VI). All she cares about is money and often acts as if being involved with people without it is pointless. While I have friends, I can't really think of any solid friendships she has kept over the years (and she says she doesn't care since friends can't do anything for her, lol). If she's not getting paid or getting something out of it, she doesn't really do any work in the house. My ESE mother bitches about how mean and rude she is but I find how she is better than how my mom is (being too nice and a push over who gets used by people). She's good at helping me get things done rather quickly or giving me a push (sometimes a literal one). I'm good at making her laugh or stay calm when things don't look too clear (For example, she came to me scared for my mom because she didn't return home one night and she wanted to call the cops. I told her to wait it out until morning and made her calmer, she was actually crying before!). Mom sometimes says I encourage her behavior just because I'm often one her side when she's doing things my mom finds mean (like not being polite to mom's friends, cursing them out, etc). Oh, not that I completely encourage this behavior though. I do laugh when I hear about it though (which mom considers encouraging). I just sort of understand why she does it and her own way of tough love (she cares about my mom but dislikes who she hangs with).
Yeah, I know that the two types can look similar due to the same strength and weakness of functions. I did mention that in the other thread about dimensionality of functions. Here's how I've seen them distinguish the two though:
"They [SEIs and IEIs] may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Humanist and Conservator with the dominant introverted ethic) for their strive for good relations with other people, very mild and comfortable manner of communication. However, there is a difference: both Lyricist and Mediator are emotionally active and even often try to awake emotions in other people. By contrast, Humanist and Conservator rather strive to suppress excessive emotions, to release other people from redundant, unnecessary emotions."
In this respect, I would fit XEI over EXI.
"They [EIIs and LIIs] may be misperceived for the quasi-identical types (Critic and Lyricist with the dominant introverted intuition) for their being modest intellectuals who do not strive “into the center of events”, their certain idealism. However, the difference is remarkable: both Analyst and Humanist are consequent in their thoughts, often have well-structured speech (and often prefer to communicate in written than in spoken). They are rigid in their everyday life: while Critic and Lyricist can well adapt to changing circumstances, Analyst and Humanist rather suffer when plans change. And they both believe that people are full of positive potential, which should be discovered and developed. "
Don't know about being consequent in my thoughts (I sometimes lose track of my train of thought) and don't think I have well-structured speech. I do think I write a lot better than I communicate though. I'm nowhere near rigid in everyday life (no one would say this of me even from their impression they have, many think I'm really chill or sometimes too nonchalant) and am always prepared to adapt. I sort of find "people being full of positive potential which should be discovered and developed" as really irrelevant though. Everyone has potential but it doesn't mean they'll become better people or that potential even matters at the end of the day.
Lol! So it wasn't just me who you thought was a girl?I am a guy trapped in a girl's body duh
But the NF is a good choice for the OP, I concur.
EDIT: HAH! My hunch was valid, you do identify yourself with IEI, @Ollyx2OxenFree!
Busted.I just had it under my TIM but took it off for the questionnaire. Did you see it? If not, what gave me away?
Is this really just Merry vs Serious? If I understood correctly, I don't think anyone's essence is unique enough to transcend their roles and that human natures is dependent on many things especially culture. We're influenced by our environment. I don't know if I'd go as far as to call it role playing though.
As a Se-Valuer myself, I kind of secretly want to be the royal adviser sitting behind the throne of a powerful dictator/CEO/evil overlord, crushing the competition into a finely powered dust.
I haven't seen a lot of One Piece, but, I do remember seeing one episode with the Chef guy having an uber wrist slitting flashback and crying or something because he couldn't peel a potato right. That's not Alpha. It may be Ne but not Alpha. An Alpha anime, would be like Bobobo, with the kung-fu nose-hairs and talking blobs of Jell-O and a dude who's only character trait is that he farts.
That link also says Fi is "morals" (you emphasized multiple times your morality and dislike of immorality) and Fe is "not a moral arbiter ". It is related to word choice. I define sympathy and empathy in the reverse manner than that site does.
The essence of Fi is sincerity, the essence of Fe (to use a PUA term, bleh) is calibration.
Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc
Whether you're being a grouch at a wedding or giddy at a funeral, you are not calibrating to the common emotional atmosphere. You are not Fe valuing.
Lacking attention to the world around oneself is weak Si, not Se. Se is volitional force or energy. The site that you linked to earlier, when quizzing me about my super-ego functions (one of which is Si) says about weak Si,
"I often neglect to notice many details of my surrounding environment "
yes, IEIs are weak in Si as well, but they will be neurotic about it and overcompensate to the point you don't notice.
yes. One is very aware when Fe users are concerned because they emote heavily.
"Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized"
For example, Betas don't tend to spend a lot of time squabbling about whether or not there is a "patriarchy" or not. Simple man (SeTi-rapist) woman (NiFe-rapee) works for them. They don't like ambiguity.
I attribute the fact that you are both boring and passive aggressive to you being NeFi and not NiFe.
If you were IEI, you would be a Tactician, and therefore would not have goals. I'm ILI. I am a Tactical type. I have no goals. I'm just chillin'. The fact that you are talking about methods (Te) and not energy (Se) tells me who your real duals are. And the fact that you are projecting your having goals onto the whole human race is evidence for you being Fi.
The "serious" people would be Decisive quadras and the eccentric people would be the Judicious ones.
"And with this differentiation – all men being decidedly NOT cut from the same cloth – a hierarchization of people is implied (Te). Ironically, I-FPs (MBTI) will often vehemently deny that they subscribe to any such worldview featuring a hierarchy of people and may even denounce such views as unethical. But they are really no different from the other Te/Fi types: It is merely their own inferior Te which they are denouncing."
TeSi keeps the system of old running as usual, NeFi argues that it should reform, and so it is!-but then the new becomes the old again, for Delta lives in the eternal present! And so the eternal cycle of progressivism turns again....
NiFes rarely bitch. They're all about mirroring and becoming others. When you start bitching about your own morality, this becomes difficult...
On EIIs:
"With extroverted intuition as their secondary function, they might have a rather goofy eccentric appearance, and they may come off as agile minded"
If you can't see the incredible irony of this sentence, then there's just no hope for you. These things are called "information elements" for a reason. It's about the way you package information. IEIs don't write in wall-of-text form, relaying all of their personal experiences, because its fucking boring, and they are Merry. Ti users think on the inside, so they usually use snappy one liners which are the end result of their cognition. Te users think out loud. They write walls-of-text to rationalize their inside butthurtness (I know this, because I am also Te/Fi). This is exactly the problem I was railing against in my Elina posts, and she ironically turned out to be an actual IEI. But I know you're a Fi dom, so you're going to stick your fingers in your ears and go "La La la la la I am IEI la la la la" .
Just know that I was trying to help. Self-delusion is never good. If you want to think your duals are the SLEs, go ahead, but you'll never find duality that way.
Addendum
"Beta types are not inclined to enjoy discussions of personal experiences when the focus is on a person's own inner feelings, especially when described in a subdued way."
You have brought up multiple personal experiences over the course of this discussion, and talked about your "inward" feelings about them
"Beta types don't so much enjoy relaxed personal activities as they do competitive group activities."
Such as sitting at home and watching an anime you personally care about. The Betas are down at the football field or the dance club.
Last edited by Whoobie77; 06-24-2014 at 10:52 AM.
I saw it somewhere a while back, don't think it's official or anything. Just an interesting way of looking at the dichotomy Fe/Ti vs Fi/Te.
No The Martrix had the same treatmentLol! So it wasn't just me who you thought was a girl?
Busted.
For your IEI preference, it was the way you replied in Elina's thread.
By the way, you have the same tendency to type walls of textAnd almost no smileys..
Are you rather drawn towards the opposite or are seeking for friends and partners who would be similar to yourself?
LOL. I bet you have a sort of emotional preference for "evil" antagonists in movies/TV as I have: Saruman, Agent Smith, The Master (Dr WHo)...
Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 06-24-2014 at 11:31 AM.
Haha, Bobobo's a gag manga so I do think that fits Alpha better. I'm caught up with One Piece though (has over 700 chapters). It's either Alpha or Beta, definitely not the other two.
Sincerity but also reserve with their emotions. Lol! I wouldn't go as far as saying I do that but I find humor in a lot of things (it's mainly humor, not being a grump filled with happy people or happy filled with depressed people). People just take note of how I laugh at a lot of things even when they aren't pleasant. I'm not causing a scene or negatively changing the emotional atmosphere.The essence of Fi is sincerity, the essence of Fe (to use a PUA term, bleh) is calibration.
Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc
Whether you're being a grouch at a wedding or giddy at a funeral, you are not calibrating to the common emotional atmosphere. You are not Fe valuing.
Sensors in general are good at it and I've seen that definition. I'd still say Se is about an awareness of one's environment while Si is an awareness of how one's environment effects them and their inner sensations. That's sort of how I interpret it having an effect on volitional energy and will. Knowing what's around you, being well-grounded and knowing what's at your disposal is what I believe aids in the confidence and drive of Se doms.Lacking attention to the world around oneself is weak Si, not Se. Se is volitional force or energy. The site that you linked to earlier, when quizzing me about my super-ego functions (one of which is Si) says about Si,
"I often neglect to notice many details of my surrounding environment "
To be honest, I do think you get a bit pedantic with some of this. No, I am not really concerned about those issues my mother worries about but I wouldn't say I give no fucks. I'm just optimistic. My ESE mother can tell when I am concerned or moody (in which she offers to buy me alcohol and shit).yes. One is very aware when Fe users are concerned because they emote heavily.
Lol! Good point."Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized"
For example, Betas don't tend to spend a lot of time squabbling about whether or not there is a "patriarchy" or not. Simple man (SeTi-rapist) woman (NiFe-rapee) works for them. They don't like ambiguity.
Ouch, dude. Sorry for boring you, I was just giving counter arguments. I'm not new to Socionics, dude. Put a lot of time and thought into it so I naturally have some counter arguments.I attribute the fact that you are both boring and passive aggressive to you being NeFi and not NiFe.
So IEE now?
Good point but my mentioning of methods is because you mentioned goals and methods in response to something I said. I have goals (like "I need to get a job"). I'll apply to a job place everyone once in a while but it won't really lead anywhere (I've been talking about getting a job for almost two years, being back home). My SLE sister easily gets what she applies for and she says it's because she stays consistent and applies to many places, unlike me. [QUOTE]If you were IEI, you would be a Tactician, and therefore would not have goals. I'm ILI. I am a Tactical type. I have no goals. I'm just chillin'. The fact that you are talking about methods (Te) and not energy (Se) tells me who your real duals are. And the fact that you are projecting your having goals onto the whole human race is evidence for you being Fi.
Noted.And with this differentiation – all men being decidedly NOT cut from the same cloth – a hierarchization of people is implied (Te). Ironically, I-FPs (MBTI) will often vehemently deny that they subscribe to any such worldview featuring a hierarchy of people and may even denounce such views as unethical. But they are really no different from the other Te/Fi types: It is merely their own inferior Te which they are denouncing.
TeSi keeps the system of old running as usual, NeFi argues that it should reform, and so it is!-but then the new becomes the old again, for Delta lives in the eternal present! And so the eternal cycle of progressivism turns again....
NiFes rarely bitch. They're all about mirroring and becoming others. When you start bitching about your own morality, this becomes difficult...
That first paragraph was an interesting thing to note. Even though I haven't read anything solid on that, it all logically makes sense although you do admit to being wrong about Elina going off of that and her picture.
If you can't see the incredible irony of this sentence, then there's just no hope for you. These things are called "information elements" for a reason. It's about the way you package information. IEIs don't write in wall-of-text form, relaying all of their personal experiences, because its fucking boring, and they are Merry. Ti users think on the inside, so they usually use snappy one liners which are the end result of their cognition. Te users think out loud. They write walls-of-text to rationalize their inside butthurtness (I know this, because I am also Te/Fi). This is exactly the problem I was railing against in my Elina posts, and she ironically turned out to be an actual IEI. But I know you're a Fi dom, so you're going to stick your fingers in your ears and go "La La la la la I am IEI la la la la" .
Just know that I was trying to help. Self-delusion is never good. If you want to think your duals are the SLEs, go ahead, but you'll never find duality that way.
Woah, are you upset with me? I know you were trying to help and I did sincerely appreciate it, dude!You put the time into it, at the very least. Swear I didn't mean any ill-will or felt passive-aggressive, just didn't agree with everything you said but you did mention some good points in the first post and even now that I was and am willing to consider. I didn't ignore everything you said. I've even read up a bit more on EII and the Ne subtype since your comment (still identify better with IEI-Fe's description, by the way). Geez. And I'm not being self-delusional (I think), I just had my two cents to add as I've been into Socionics for a little over a year and think I know some shit.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that being where I also mentioned it.No The Martrix had the same treatment
For your IEI preference, it was the way you replied in Elina's thread.
By the way, you have the same tendency to type walls of text
Are you rather drawn towards the opposite or are seeking for friends and partners who would be similar to yourself?
I'm rarely really seeking friends and partners, in general. It often happens naturally especially through hanging out with friends of my friends. Those friends often aren't similar to me personality-wise aside from maybe sharing an interest or two.
Oh no, the fashion begins! Are we going to now take the conceptual inertia of a series of posts by a self typed Serious as the arbitrator of Merriness? Debate is the prelude to decision, never authority. The author is dead, long live the masters and gatherers of scripts!For your IEI preference, it was the way you replied in Elina's thread.
By the way, you have the same tendency to type walls of text
It was just an observation. Not a tendency for typing or anything else.
I do not follow fashion by the way
IEI-Fe vs EII-Ne. Fe subtype strengthens Fe/Fi and Se/Si while Ne subtype strengthens Ne/Ni and Ti/Te. Not much to go off of besides these descriptions as far as subtype is concerned. As far as appearance goes, I can look at some of my pics and what I've heard.
DIPLOMAT (Fe-INFp)
APPEARANCE: The ethical subtype makes an impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually looks inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor. May talk of his problems and failures with a smile. Ironic, crafty, unpredictable and inconsistent in behavior and conversation. Creates original contrasts, can unexpectedly jab at someone and then just as quickly embrace and kiss his conversation partner. Artistic and charming; unconstrained in conversation, occasionally even with shades of familiarity and impudence. Knows how to bridge the distance. Considerate, tactful, and caring; at times he is simply charming, so great is his talent at positively predisposing others to himself and being liked. Talented at persuasion: states requests in such a manner that it is difficult to refuse them. His movements are refined ; his gait is graceful, hasty. Speech is full of emotion, rich with shades, sometimes melodious.
CHARACTER: Emotional and charming, easily and naturally comes into contact with unfamiliar people, predisposing them towards trust with his warmth and sincerity. Able to cheer others up, make them laugh with his unusual antics and utterances. Well versed in feelings and moods of people, able to establish and maintain useful contacts for reaching his goals and to find best suited candidates for implementation of the conceived.To each person he is able to find an individual approach. Often puts his requests in such a form that it is difficult to turn him down. Independent by nature, impulsive, unpredictable in his actions; given to impromptu acts and improvisations. Unobtrusive with his feelings - if he does not see reciprocity, he will distance. Consults with others before making important decisions, though does not always follow their advice.
Elegant, skillful in becoming liked, readily gives out compliments. Enjoys being at the center of the attention. Figuratively and with a refined sense of humor retells stories of his experiences. Enjoys and knows how to reconcile those who are arguing. Sometimes he is given to irony and ridicule, but says even unpleasant things as if in jest and with a smile.
Very much in need of praise and encouragement. Sensitive of criticism of his work or investing effort that has not been appreciated; this lowers his productivity. While if he is praised in advance, this encourages him to strive to overcome difficulties and aid him in gaining confidence. In his heart he is very vulnerable and acutely aware of his failures. Internally contradictory, prone to abrupt mood swings: from laughter to tears and in reverse. Easy lights up with a new idea, but can quickly lose interest if it requires a lot of patience and effort for realization. Passionately tries to prove his correctness; accepts advice only after he has calmed down, and even then only until the next emotional outburst. Needs support of a strong-willed, capable, energetic person.
Somewhat distrustful and suggestible. Readily shares his problems with others, seeking their sympathy, understanding, and support. Inclined to demonstrate his physical or personal sufferings. Sensing danger, he transmits his apprehensive and restless mood to those around him. Nonchalant and imperturbable, but this is only a tactic that allows him to make a good impression. Sometimes he evokes awe and admiration in others by demonstrating fearlessness in dangerous situations. His composed serene state is transmitted onto others, allowing them to distance from their everyday worries and problems.
Graceful in his movements, shows refinement, good manners, dresses tastefully. Fastidious in his household. Possesses an aesthetic taste, appreciates ornaments and decorations. Enjoys comfort. Cares about his own appearance as well as appearance of others. Wasteful and uneconomical; can purchase needless things; dislikes those who are frugal over minor purchases. Does not attach much value to material things, and thus can be careless with them. Borrowing or lending something, may forget about it for a long time.
TEACHER (Ne-INFj)
APPEARANCE: The intuitive subtype is emotional, composed, and firm. Shows cordiality, goodwill, and friendliness toward people who are in his favor. Closing distance with a person tries to be somehow useful and of service. Likes to advise, to mentor, to educate others but only within his circle. Possesses figurative and imaginative thinking and creative abilities, can discuss various imagery, symbols, dreams. Sensitive, vulnerable, unsure and erratic. Prone to taking offense despite his best attempts to hide this. Sometimes he likes to joke around in conversation. Tries not to say unpleasant things to people, but cannot always restrain himself and may burst in disagreement or indignation, regretting it later. Serious and fastidious, prefers to hold himself with some reserve and subtlety. Dresses simply, adhering to classical styles, often conservatively. His mimicry and gestures are weakly expressed. Speech is emotional and slightly inhibited; its tone is often didactic. Frequently has a disproportionate figure, often squat in physique and prone to corpulence. Gait may be a bit clumsy and waddling.
CHARACTER: Seeks to understand the essence of various subjects and phenomena. Possesses strong associative and figurative thinking and the talent of foresight. Perceptive and insightful regarding the potential of various projects and people, aware of other's talents and abilities. Often displays an interest in problems that lie at the intersection of ethics and philosophy. Very curious, loves to read and to contemplate. He is constantly evaluating everything. Feels unsatisfied and frustrated with work that is monotonous and routine. Strives for self-cultivation. Defends his views on emotional basis, but tries to support his statements with facts. Distrustful, requires sufficient evidence to become convinced of the verity of his partner's statements.
Poorly tolerates loneliness, needs attention of people who are close with him. Appreciates sincerity, attention to his person, and tact; condemns boisterous and abusive behavior. Quite principled; he believes that all-forgiveness is corrupting to those who deserve to be reprimanded. May sometimes deliver a harsh rebuke for a person whom he thinks to be guilty, but usually wavers before doing so because he is afraid of ruining his relations with others and being unfair. Loves his family; for them he is ready for any sacrifices. Very fond of young children; sometimes for educational purposes he becomes strict and uncompromising with them. At times advocates for harsh measures and punishments.
Impressionable and emotionally sensitive. Tries to please others by performing a variety of services for others or giving presents, by being generous and unselfish. Feels truly satisfied with himself only if he could contribute by a deed. Helps people not sparing his time and efforts, meanwhile may forget about himself. Does not forgive betrayal and treachery; in such cases may irreversibly put an end to the relationship. Easily takes offense. Painfully and sensitively perceives the lack of volitional, push-through qualities in himself.
Takes on many tasks barely completing them on time, thus may postpone unpleasant or uninteresting work until later. Shows an interest in the objective side of affairs if he has a desire to become competent in pragmatic activities, in which case makes himself learn about procedures and regulations. Can be happy if he finds a proper application of his abilities.
A person of firm convictions - an idealist and a maximalist. Dreams of being in ideal harmony with his partner in tastes, beliefs, and passions, and becomes upset when this doesn't happen and disagreements arise. Due to his tendency to take everything close to heart, feels worried and agitated by slighted occasions. Prone to doubt, somewhat indecisive and diffident. Needs an optimistically oriented partner who can dispel his worries and uncertainties, be able to provide an evaluation of his work and actions, shield him from unnecessary tasks and people, and improve his mood. Has a keen sense of responsibility for others. Demanding of himself; educates others by his personal example. Tries to instill in other people respect for higher values. May have an interest in occult or religious and teach himself various divination techniques and interpretations of teachings.
His appearance is often very modest, dresses so as not to stand out. Attempts to look tidy and well-groomed, but investing effort and time into looking after his appearance feels like a burden for him. Often doesn't have much interest in jewelry. Critically evaluates his looks; negative remarks on this topic can deeply wound him. Receives compliments in the presence of others with confusion and distrust. Afraid of falling sick and becoming dependent on others, for this reason tries to improve his lifestyle.
Descriptions suck anyway
^Yeah! Descriptions won't get you very far. Better to understand that different schools of thought will arrive at different conclusions and build from the ground up based on descriptions of the functions themselves, and be ready to be a bunch of different types and "called out" on being "the wrong type".
dats probley just myopinion dough.
The feedback to the questionnaire is just an expression of beliefs in response to some generic questions. It doesn't show how a person processes information. I can identify with parts of almost every questionnaire I have read. Then after observing the person on the forum I realize we just don't process/think the same or that we do. You can probably tell I have this belief that I have a built in IEI detector though.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
You ought to change your Custom User Title to Lotus-Eater/IEI detectorThe feedback to the questionnaire is just an expression of beliefs in response to some generic questions. It doesn't show how a person processes information. I can identify with parts of almost every questionnaire I have read. Then after observing the person on the forum I realize we just don't process/think the same or that we do. You can probably tell I have this belief that I have a built in IEI detector though.
NiFedar
no, I don't see you in Delta and as you've already admitted you do selftype as IEI - probably I don't see you in Delta for a reason
but yeah, I'll have a go at explaining my impressions
TL;DR - in my head you're IEI (unless you change your mind on your typing, then I'll reconsider).
What stands out most to me in contact with Betas (and especially IEIs) is that initially there is this "whoa, we're sooo similar" and then the longer we discuss the more differences we start to notice - we might use the exact same words, but formulate our defintions of the words in a different way in our heads and it takes some digging to notice this (this may lead to initially agreeing on some issues on a superficial level only to discover later that we understood it a different way or it may lead to realising we think alike despite phrasing something differently - depending on the subject).
Essentially - initially on a superficial level xNFxs can come across very similar - and this leads to mistypings (among other issues).
i.e. we might both say "I value freedom very much" only later to realise that what defines freedom is very different to both of us and one of us might want more freedom in one realm than the other and in other realm it might go vice versa... (yeah, I'm no good in TL;DR today either... sorry).
Last edited by aisa; 06-24-2014 at 07:59 PM.
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