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Thread: Questions for Ti folks

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    Default Questions for Ti folks

    Beyond what Socionics says in a neutral way about what dual-seeking/inferior function should be like, I'm curious to hear some opinions of Ti people..though there are probably few on the forum.

    How do you perceive your own Fe-seeking? As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various communities; a society's image and ideas about another)? as enjoyment of groups united through a dynamic atmosphere in following a cause? as simply being in a large crowd that's having fun and engaging all people (concert, carnival)? as being impressed by overt shows of emotion - regardless of what they are about?! does it matter at all how you personally relate to those people/groups?
    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core? What if your opinion of a person is very low ... are you still turned on by their being expressive and all the jazz and trying to move you (also figuratively)? If you listened to a second ****** or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out? I'd be curious to hear some examples about when and how you noticed your Fe-seeking have a say in what happened and not necessarily what you prioritized via Ti or what was most logically reasonable. Maybe also experiences from a time before you knew anything about personality theory or Socionics and basically you didn't think you should be 'Fe seeking' or you're supposed to like Fe people.

    ** I'm looking mainly for Ti opinions, but others who have noticed this kind of stuff and want to share smth. are free to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Beyond what Socionics says in a neutral way about what dual-seeking/inferior function should be like, I'm curious to hear some opinions of Ti people..though there are probably few on the forum.

    How do you perceive your own Fe-seeking? As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various communities; a society's image and ideas about another)? as enjoyment of groups united through a dynamic atmosphere in following a cause? as simply being in a large crowd that's having fun and engaging all people (concert, carnival)? as being impressed by overt shows of emotion - regardless of what they are about?! does it matter at all how you personally relate to those people/groups?
    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core? What if your opinion of a person is very low ... are you still turned on by their being expressive and all the jazz and trying to move you (also figuratively)? If you listened to a second ****** or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out? I'd be curious to hear some examples about when and how you noticed your Fe-seeking have a say in what happened and not necessarily what you prioritized via Ti or what was most logically reasonable. Maybe also experiences from a time before you knew anything about personality theory or Socionics and basically you didn't think you should be 'Fe seeking' or you're supposed to like Fe people.

    ** I'm looking mainly for Ti opinions, but others who have noticed this kind of stuff and want to share smth. are free to do it.
    Assuming i'm TI:

    Fe to me represents the high tides, when i'm riding the energy rather than forcing it. I feel empowered when a group is accepting of my quirks (or appreciates them) and when the admosphere is filled thick with emotion. This means I also feel some kind of elation when i can actually feel sad with people or angy.

    That said, i am weary of these kinds of emotions too. Having been victim of groups at young age I used to really despise highly energized groups and if/when i joined them I tried to manipulate and control them (usually quite succesfully). Only recently have I come to experience the emersion in group style euphoria/sadness which i described above.

    My intellectual attitude to groups is centered around how I can direct/controll them. Emotionally speaking, large crowds (50+) kinda scare me as I know/feel that people in large crowds can be monsters. So while festivals are "ok" soccer matches and such events are something I shun. I love small groups of highly energetic/emotional people and i'm a huuuuuuge fan of carnevals (If you mean fairs/traveling attraction shows). I also love fireworks, it makes me cry (always...) and sad movies (make me cry too).

    I used to be highly critical of emotional behaviour and or display. Like you said, i could see through it, disect it all, even predict it. In the end, for me it was a choice to not look through everything, kinda like suspense of disbelieve. It's the only way I can care about the world if that makes sense.

    For me it's basically binary, if i'm "in my head" I'm quite oblivious to how stuff comes across, to the finer nuances of the experience. I basically just follow the "logic" of what i'm doing and assume that people will understand. When I'm emotive I can suspend my critical mind and go with the emotions, and in that state i'm extremely aware of emotional surges, peoples feelings and that kind of stuff. It's never both (although walking into an emotional sphere can kick me out of my mental state sometimes).

    I'd say my oppinion of someone would be determining, but i'm not ACTUALLY sure. It might be true that even if someone is an airhead, if they have the right expressiveness i'd still find them attractive. However, romantically speaking I have a strickt policy of staying in my head untill someone knocks me out of it, and those people are usually emotive AND smart.

    Examples: My ex wife was highly emotive (proooobably) EIE. She has this way of living her emotions without any self reflection or moderation. It's basically the case that everything is visible (although she can lie like the best of them). Although on the long run this proved to be quite exhausting, I've always really appreciated how she made me feel alife in the moment. On my own i'm quite indifferent about almost everything and she had an emotion (not really oppinion) about everything which kinda filled the void.

    Also, I like beta environments for the displays of emotion, one on one it's ok, but groups of beta are just jummy for small amounts of time. Lots of emotions running through the group to savour and sometimes to stear and or destroy. But only for a night or so, more than that is very very exhausting (they never rest do they?).

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    I feel that Fe-seeking comes out when I'm hanging out with friends. When the social mood is really fun and amusing and I feel comfortable just saying anything because I'm just having fun.

    Regarding large crowds and their emotions, I can't recall one example where I've felt it's a super light, happy, fun atmosphere. Instead it feels more like an event which a lot of people are going to: some people will be aggressive, some people will be stressed, some people will be judgmental and ultimately not everyone you see and meet will be happy to indulge whatever you want to do.

    Regarding affecting my decisions, I don't have the insight into myself to say "I am using Ti to make this decision." However, I tend to feel that what I'm doing is the most logical and rational - but doesn't everyone? Fe-types can affect my decisions (which is different from Fe affecting my decisions) by pointing things out to me in a slightly confused way, so it's perfectly clear what I'm doing wrong but I feel like I'm restoring clarity to them, or I've figured it out myself. Ownership bias.
    Warm Regards,



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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    If you listened to a second Hit-ler or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out?
    I'd change my views for some good ol' .
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it
    Nope, too much is just good amount of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    I'd be curious to hear some examples about when and how you noticed your Fe-seeking have a say in what happened
    I like to make people laugh. Laughing is fun. Very Fe imo.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core?

    nope, i <3 drama and jockeying for the center of attention.


    ... are you still turned on by their being expressive and all the jazz and trying to move you (also figuratively)? If you listened to a second ****** or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs,

    yeah, it's a turn on no matter which side of the ideological spectrum it comes from. the expression can be compartmentalized and judged alone, on its own merits, without any necessary adherence to its originating ideology.


    p.s. i don't have any moralistic "beliefs".
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    In strong environments, I transform from this hard-ass stubborn "that's not logical because xx" Spock or Data type into a goofy person who becomes warmer. I also tell too many puns. This change is ideal in Alpha environments because they will share similar senses of humor to myself and therefore understand my strange sense of humor. Oftentimes, after I have been in contact with types, I feel deprived of it and am usually grumpy for a couple days afterwards, because I have a subconscious need for .

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    Fe suggestive is a want of Fe. A hunger for it, It is a sense of alienation from others, wanting inclusion.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    .
    Last edited by Chains; 09-05-2015 at 04:28 AM.

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    Fe seems to be the most misrepresented function/aspect in socionics.

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    Care to elaborate?
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    a lot of what people identify as typical Fe is usually some mixture of Te and Se. its too explicit, too forward and too indifferent to nuance to qualify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    Regarding affecting my decisions, I don't have the insight into myself to say "I am using Ti to make this decision." However, I tend to feel that what I'm doing is the most logical and rational - but doesn't everyone? Fe-types can affect my decisions (which is different from Fe affecting my decisions) by pointing things out to me in a slightly confused way, so it's perfectly clear what I'm doing wrong but I feel like I'm restoring clarity to them, or I've figured it out myself. Ownership bias.
    I think Ti types in general will restrict themselves to acting based on what is rational, or seen as part of the basic 'rules' unless they get (Fe) feedback that illustrates more nuance behind various modes of behavior/choices. it's a way of being appropriately enlivened. Fe types conversely seek a kind of basic rationale for the flux of states they constantly have to manage, something that will simplify their actions and settle them some.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    a lot of what people identify as typical Fe is usually some mixture of Te and Se. its too explicit, too forward and too indifferent to nuance to qualify.
    Care to elaborate on that?
    You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.

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    no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    no.
    please ..? would you be so kind to let us hear you play Ti magic on us?

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    you've understood Fe when you reconcile in your head the qualities of being intensely sensitive to nuances and yet shallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    you've understood Fe when you reconcile in your head the qualities of being intensely sensitive to nuances and yet shallow.
    the second part is just devalued Fi
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    no, that completely butchers my statement. it is decidedly not what i mean. but enough words have been wasted on this tired issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    Fe seems to be the most misrepresented function/aspect in socionics.
    There seems to be less Fe-leading types than normal, which may have something to do with it. I mean, we refine the nuances of the socionics talk in the forum, so if there's no one to say "well-that's-not-true-ime"...
    Warm Regards,



    Clowns & Entropy

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    @rosewood
    -- As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various communities; a society's image and ideas about another)?

    Definitely not. Though that does sound like something I E I would say.

    --as enjoyment of groups united through a dynamic atmosphere in following a cause?
    as simply being in a large crowd that's having fun and engaging all people (concert, carnival)?

    I guess having definit and clear positive common motivation/intention in a group situation would be both relaxing and motivating. That is not though what comes to my mind to "value of Fe". It is the perspective and the will. Dynamic -responsive -connected evaluation or rather reaction to wish-hope-will. Forward directed but also stemming from fundamental and timeless. Living energy. Ti can be like crystal or brilliant with absolute edges and surfeces, most solid and clear and totally dull and in the darkness.
    Fe is light in this metaphor.

    -- as being impressed by overt shows of emotion - regardless of what they are about?! does it matter at all how you
    personally relate to those people/groups?

    To certain extent strong emotion that pass "honest and not flaky "judgement impress , energize and spark interest disregarding the relation to the source, but that doesn't mean much in terms off agreeing.

    --Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core?

    All the heart felt stuff ultimately dissects to love of life and in that is appreciated regardless of in how unsightly or stupid way it is directed.
    Forget the concept of Ti egos undesernedly eating up all expressions of emotion. Do judge whether things are a spectacle and whether to like it even if it is.

    --what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out?

    Fe sounds like "this important, think about it!". Then you are happy to, and give the results limiting offencive because the motivation and enthusiasm and so openness are there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownsandEntropy View Post
    I feel that Fe-seeking comes out when I'm hanging out with friends. When the social mood is really fun and amusing and I feel comfortable just saying anything because I'm just having fun.
    .
    nope, i <3 drama and jockeying for the center of attention.
    In strong environments, I transform from this hard-ass stubborn "that's not logical because xx" Spock or Data type into a goofy person who becomes warmer. I also tell too many puns. This change is ideal in Alpha environments because they will share similar senses of humor to myself and therefore understand my strange sense of humor. Oftentimes, after I have been in contact with types, I feel deprived of it and am usually grumpy for a couple days afterwards, because I have a subconscious need for.
    I've often noticed different types of Ti and Fe and how they might fit together. For instance, with respect to the above, I enjoy outgoing environments with people who need to be the centre of attention much more than people who are friendly and warm. I find warm people nice, but almost always, I just sense some type of disorganization or distraction that drives me crazy. I can't help but wonder if they need a 'Spock' with a highly organized, logical mind (Assuming that's what's implied by MicahKoopa's post). On that note, I don't identify with the notion of 'hard data' and 'hard logic' either. I find that I'm more of a reflective person and I am almost always inside myself looking inward. The people I like are extremely energetic, but a little bit less introspective. (I read an ILE describe experiencing ESEs as 'looking into the sun.' That's how I experience them, but in a good way, where the sun doesn't hurt my eyes.) In any event, my dual might help me get out of myself and have fun, and (answering another post) I would be less help at giving them advice on buying a car, and more useful in helping them sort out what they like in a car. This makes me wonder if there's a type of Ti that is more reflective that goes with someone Fe who is highly extroverted and enthusiastic, and a type of Ti that is more organized and rational that needs someone warm to help them get in touch with their emotions. Just a theory, anyway...
    Last edited by jason_m; 06-22-2014 at 02:05 PM.
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    I think the crystal - luminous energy metaphor is quite telling. I like it ...probably also because it contains the subjective imprint of a 1 D function.

    (I'd picture a Fe base, EIE for instance as a negativist, could relate emotional energy to foggy darkness as well and maybe Ti to clarity and stone-like solidity. I've just recalled a recent thread where someone was wondering if 'Mania' type of love may come from the Ni-Se erotic attitude.)

    >>> "As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various communities; a society's image and ideas about another)"

    The LSI E3 I'm dating is fascinated by this kind of stuff -- he doesn't try to explain it all holistically as a system of beliefs though. He collects a lot of 'ethnic music' and takes photos of typical dances in areas he travels (even funerals, goddamit! he happened to witness such a thing in Peru once and he filled his blog with pics). He seems to be addicted to immersing in new cultures and discovering customs he never thought of. To me it looks like he just seeks to gather bits and pieces as in mosaic-style about different communities without actually looking into deeper levels of worldview etc. (Ne polr perhaps).

    Last edited by Amber; 06-22-2014 at 01:18 PM.

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    the first part of this thread was nice


    I like how people describe Fe.

    I like watching Fe people having legit goofy fun...... sometimes I'm even like .... :sobs: I want..to join......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmers View Post
    Thanks for this thread, as it has given me a new perspective toward my type. Being conflicted as to whether I was ILI or IEI, I was focusing on whether my creative function was Te or Fe, when it actually could be neither.

    Numerous factors point toward me being Fe valuing/seeking, which is why I don't demonstrate the Fe-polR of ILIs nor the Te-polR of IEIs, even though I do relate to many of their traits incorporated into the descriptions. These factors include being extremely susceptible to the emotions around me. I come from a large family with a long history of drama, my work place is filled with drama, and even the emotional atmosphere of my home is often disorientingly filled with drama(I have two wonderful, but emotional young girls and an ESI wife). How can you think about anything with all bickering going on? I find this all very distracting to what I'm naturally oriented towards, which is the contemplative life. I just love to sit around and think, except most of my creativity appears while going for a walk in solitude.

    Now, back to Fe. I am much more receptive to women displaying Fe than Fi. I find it warm and I am drawn to them, just as long as they don't use it to get me do things I don't want to do. Now, it is easy for me to tell another man no, or a crotchety female, but I struggle with telling a warm, friendly woman no( especially if she's cute). My youngest really knows how to work me with her Fe, unless she's being bratty or whiny, which is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

    I try really hard to avoid being exposed to strong emotions. Emotions themselves are no big deal, it is the extent in which people are controlled by them that bother me. It is fine for people to talk about them as long as they aren't consumed by them. When they are, I start scanning my environment for the nearest exit, lol.
    you're most likely Delta NF actually after scanning this. You seem to "swim" through types very easily, I've hardly seen that in ILis.

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    Last edited by Chains; 09-05-2015 at 04:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Beyond what Socionics says in a neutral way about what dual-seeking/inferior function should be like, I'm curious to hear some opinions of Ti people..though there are probably few on the forum.

    How do you perceive your own Fe-seeking? As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various
    I don't.

    communities; a society's image and ideas about another)? as enjoyment of groups united through a dynamic atmosphere in following a cause? as simply being in a large crowd that's having fun and engaging all people (concert, carnival)? as being impressed by overt shows of emotion - regardless of what they are about?! does it
    I don't like dry people.

    matter at all how you personally relate to those people/groups?
    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core?
    Less is more sometimes.

    What if your opinion of a person is very low ... are you still turned on by their being expressive and all the jazz and trying to move you (also figuratively)? If you listened to a second ****** or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out? I'd be
    Maybe amused.

    curious to hear some examples about when and how you noticed your Fe-seeking have a say in what happened and not necessarily what you prioritized via Ti or what was most logically reasonable. Maybe also experiences from a time before you knew anything about personality theory or Socionics and basically you didn't think you should be 'Fe seeking' or you're supposed to like Fe people.
    I don't really listen to reason very well. But at times I'll listen to "other" things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agni View Post
    How do you perceive your own Fe-seeking? As interest in cultural traditions, rituals, and values (e.g. how death/transition or divinity are represented in various communities; a society's image and ideas about another)? as enjoyment of groups united through a dynamic atmosphere in following a cause? as simply being in a large crowd that's having fun and engaging all people (concert, carnival)? as being impressed by overt shows of emotion - regardless of what they are about?! does it matter at all how you personally relate to those people/groups?
    I think my Fe is about 1.5D in terms of dimensionality Somewhere between typical Fe HA and Fe DS. It's still Fe HA, supposedly, so take that into account.

    My default experience of Fe seeking is about being too dispassionate sometimes and -largely unconsciously- wanting the missing emotional experience and feeling "better" when receiving it in some way and/or when I'm being put into a state where I can let out emotions. Though the latter is usually less of an issue, I can't really repress it if strong need for emotional expression arises (that's usually of negative emotions though... it's more the positive ones where I need a bit of "help")

    In terms of being in groups and experience Fe in that context, I first have to feel part of the group, feel included before my attention shifts enough to be open to any Fe displays there. Feeling of inclusion requires more than just simply passively being there and seeing others being engaged/emotional/whatnot. If I am not a part, I will be much more negative about Fe: unconsciously resentfully ignoring the Fe, basically being set against the group passively or sometimes even actively disrupting other people, etc. If I am a part, I will be open and engaged with Fe alright And no, it doesn't matter how I personally relate to the people in the group, I'm pretty neutral in that sense.

    As for cultural traditions, not really, no, I'm more untraditional than traditional in some respects. Well I don't have a problem with some other traditions, sure.. Rituals, no, I don't tend to feel a part of those so I don't care. I don't know why that is but it has to do something with me being a pretty independent self-sufficient person. Society related images/ideas, etc, that can be an interesting topic sometimes.

    As for simply following a mutual cause in the group, no, I'm not a follower, I prefer to have influence instead. I'm not sure I'm good at that sort of unity at all, because that concept to me automatically implies that I'm to submit to some leader or just to the other people in general and no I'm not doing that. I know that the concept of unity does not *have to* mean that but to me it does. And when I have influence over the goal and events going on with the group that's no longer a completely felt unity either, only a partial one. I don't know, maybe it's possible just it depends on whatever unknown variable, this is just my experiences so far.


    Aren't you put off by too much Fe spectacles if you are so analytic and 'level-headed' and since you can see through most of it, I guess, and dissect it to the core?
    No, just with Fe-base types sometimes I have the experience they "activate" my Ti too much. It works alright, just the Fe/Ti relationship is not at the optimum. It can otherwise be amusing, enjoyable, etc, really really nice at times; but overactivation can also make me feel too passive in some way. It's hard to explain...just I'm contributing too much Ti input to the situation instead of Se or something


    What if your opinion of a person is very low ... are you still turned on by their being expressive and all the jazz and trying to move you (also figuratively)?
    Yes it can still be funny, I can still respond positively, etc. even if I think the person is a bit stupid (in the intellectual sense).


    If you listened to a second ****** or Martin Luther King speaking, would you be swayed instantaneously - what if you hold opposing beliefs, how does that play out?
    No wtf why would I be swayed? No, I'm actually rather resistant to emotional appeal if used instead of logical reasoning. I'm left completely unaffected. Also, the larger the group with herd mentality sharing one opinion of which I'm not convinced of, the more unaffected I will be. I just have this mental control over these situations that automatically kicks in. Also as I said above, I'm not a follower type so that plays into it as well.

    Though it's also possible that someone says something with very nice or strong -but especially if refined- emotional embellishments and while I don't agree with the opinion itself I can enjoy the mode of delivery. Assuming this someone is not supposed to be some sort of leader "above me" because, yeah, I'm not a follower type.


    I'd be curious to hear some examples about when and how you noticed your Fe-seeking have a say in what happened and not necessarily what you prioritized via Ti or what was most logically reasonable. Maybe also experiences from a time before you knew anything about personality theory or Socionics and basically you didn't think you should be 'Fe seeking' or you're supposed to like Fe people.
    Fe doesn't usually influence me in the sense of affecting my judgment/decisions. But in some situations I have Fe-related considerations -half unconscious really- or there can be someone directly expressing their emotions that can actually have an influence and even though my main goal is usually not going to change even then, I may change some actions leading up to it. I will tend to still use Ti to prioritize etc., I will just take into account the emotional state of certain people but not by directly being swayed by the emotion or at least not on a conscious level. If I were to let myself be influenced directly by the emotional state that would mean my default logical filter's gone missing and I prefer not to go there

    Yes before I knew of Socionics I do have experiences of accidentally running into Fe-base types and then them sticking around for some reason and spend enjoyable time together I think they tend to be EIEs though, ESEs not that much. I'm not sure about the Fe-creatives, I think my experience with them is more sporadic, even though very nice at times.
    Last edited by Myst; 10-27-2014 at 05:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    I like to make people laugh. Laughing is fun. Very Fe imo.
    Ditto, especially if someone is particularly sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    Ditto, especially if someone is particularly sad.
    In case you didn't get it, my whole post is mocking the OP questions.
    “I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden

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    lol this thread was made when I was dating a LSI E3 I couldn't read much. Of course most questions were just rhetorical, since Socionics can't really explain a person ...but it sparked some interesting discussion after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    In case you didn't get it, my whole post is mocking the OP questions.
    mmm I caught glimpse of your Fe somewhere else when you confessed you had to stop answering a bunch of silly questions and then became a pelican.

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    Sorry, I'm not Ti, but I couldn't resist making a statement.
    judging on what was written prior to this - this needn't be re-emphasized.
    ipsa scientia potestas est-adaequatio intellectus et rei

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    Shallow in what way?
    There's a whole lot of truth in that sentence

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    IIn terms of being in groups and experience Fe in that context, I first have to feel part of the group, feel included before my attention shifts enough to be open to any Fe displays there. Feeling of inclusion requires more than just simply passively being there and seeing others being engaged/emotional/whatnot. If I am not a part, I will be much more negative about Fe: unconsciously resentfully ignoring the Fe, basically being set against the group passively or sometimes even actively disrupting other people, etc. If I am a part, I will be open and engaged with Fe alright And no, it doesn't matter how I personally relate to the people in the group, I'm pretty neutral in that sense.

    No wtf why would I be swayed? No, I'm actually rather resistant to emotional appeal if used instead of logical reasoning. I'm left completely unaffected. Also, the larger the group with herd mentality sharing one opinion of which I'm not convinced of, the more unaffected I will be. I just have this mental control over these situations that automatically kicks in. Also as I said above, I'm not a follower type so that plays into it as well.
    I think in-group response of Ti base types to is quite different to in-group response of creative types to , there are also difference between CD thinkers and HP thinkers. And within HP/CD thinker there is Constructivist and Emotivist difference.

    Positivist in LSI is emotivist and they can really get engaged by the base of EIE's, this type is probably the most group engaged during in group behavior and a suitably skilled EIE can I think easily gain the support of such an individual.

    Negativist emotivism in LII is more a "hold your horses", let's discuss mentality to prevent over-activity from their ESE duals.

    Positivist constructionism in ILE is always modernizing, reevaluating the message, in this manner they are benefactors to EIE's, often ignoring their message or redefining it and solving problems in the message and making new requests.

    Negativist constructivism in SLE is implementing, addressing problems in message vs pragmatics, while trying to maintain position and status within the group. Goal oriented instead of message oriented.

    Just a few thought experiments on this.. probably can be evaluated for error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    I agree. I think a lot of people assign all kinds of behaviors and traits to Fe egos that aren't necessarily true. It's mainly a sensitivity to the emotional nuances in the environment and how a person reacts to it and what kind of emotional atmosphere the Fe ego prefers varies by person. Enneagram type can maybe he'll indicate this preference but even then...
    Anyway I'd still like to hear @lecter elaborate since he's been insightful so far ☺
    He elaborated on that idea in the Viewpoints section:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...thoughts-9-36a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elina View Post
    I agree. I think a lot of people assign all kinds of behaviors and traits to Fe egos that aren't necessarily true. It's mainly a sensitivity to the emotional nuances in the environment and how a person reacts to it and what kind of emotional atmosphere the Fe ego prefers varies by person. Enneagram type can maybe help indicate this preference but even then...
    Anyway I'd still like to hear @lecter elaborate since he's been insightful so far ☺
    I see Fe as shallow in a way that emotions are short lived and externally oriented. Sometimes over-exagerrated, but short and fast changing moods. It reacts to emotional cues and usually gives the priority to the atmosphere (group) and not individual. I think it prefers not to go too deep into other individuals in instances when that causes negative emotions in them.

    They are probably shallower in trying to find the exact right words an delivery and make the individual happy that right moment and not deal with deeper shit and issues, unless in cases when it's about collective bonding over bitching and moaning. Fe egos can be really annoyed when someone brings the group down or doesn't align with the atmosphere.

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    I asked my husband (Ti-base) this last night: "Since you're an insightful and deep person, and you handle yourself well in the world, what is it that I actually give you, or do for you?" And he said, "I feel like you always meet me exactly where I am."

    Anyone could say that, I guess -- it's a nice thing to say. But it does get at what I think Fe does. I've usually described Fe as a kind of Silly Putty that locks into the surroundings, other people, and takes an impression, and just keeps doing that, it's like a ping, very quick stream of information, going back and forth and because the attention keeps re-locking, it looks fluid.

    What that actually does in relation to Ti remains unclear to me. ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    a lot of what people identify as typical Fe is usually some mixture of Te and Se. its too explicit, too forward and too indifferent to nuance to qualify.
    This is such a good point. This is why some SLEs come off during high school/college as having a lot of Fe, at least to other weak Fe types.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    I think in-group response of Ti base types to is quite different to in-group response of creative types to , there are also difference between CD thinkers and HP thinkers. And within HP/CD thinker there is Constructivist and Emotivist difference.

    Positivist in LSI is emotivist and they can really get engaged by the base of EIE's, this type is probably the most group engaged during in group behavior and a suitably skilled EIE can I think easily gain the support of such an individual.

    Negativist emotivism in LII is more a "hold your horses", let's discuss mentality to prevent over-activity from their ESE duals.

    Positivist constructionism in ILE is always modernizing, reevaluating the message, in this manner they are benefactors to EIE's, often ignoring their message or redefining it and solving problems in the message and making new requests.

    Negativist constructivism in SLE is implementing, addressing problems in message vs pragmatics, while trying to maintain position and status within the group. Goal oriented instead of message oriented.

    Just a few thought experiments on this.. probably can be evaluated for error.
    Nice summary, I relate to the two Negativist ones, SLE mainly but that's exactly how I respond to ESEs as well (because they get annoying fast sometimes.. not always, just when they talk too much).


    Quote Originally Posted by lecter View Post
    a lot of what people identify as typical Fe is usually some mixture of Te and Se. its too explicit, too forward and too indifferent to nuance to qualify.
    That makes a lot of sense, I can see a lot of Fe-ish stuff in myself as being more Se. And explicitly Fe only in a few cases.

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    Yes, I think the idea of taking emotion into account by itself is insufficient to qualify as Fe, unless that emotion becomes representative/code for certain ethical or feeling attitudes deemed in some sense reasonable, so that one can coherently form judgments about them and thus look to forming agendas out of them. A lot of other "emotions" are just basic instinctual impulses rather than attitudes we've adopted and established.
    A lot of what is called Fe is just pure, unrationalized expression of emotion, which just doesn't qualify for what Fe should represent for say EXE or XEI although I think it could perhaps to the latter.

    How much someone is able to express unrationalized emotional attitudes is really not a conceptual feature of this stuff (note that of course there may be a rationalized attitude behind this unrationalized one, but that doesn't mean the ones for whom Fe is most rational, like EXE especially, will be more likely to engage in the relatively unrationalized component...arguably less so even).
    It's probably something that varies with the individual.

    A lot of what we associate with warm vs cold ways people present themselves has more to do with this unrationalized layer, whereas seeking a deeper ethics behind the attitudes is what qualifies as real Fe.

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