Nas

[Whoobie77]

H Talk about the loss of integrity, love.."Some great works comes from pain,some great work comes from love, from loss".I think he's definitely an NF and not an NT.

This just proves he's an F, not necessarily an NF.

Betas are all about external emoting. Loud jokes, loud laughing, loud music, straightfoward expression, simplistic mythical shorthand -it's all aimed at creating a truly holistic community. Possibly more than any other quadra. The one thing that Betas do not like is private feelings- private wounds, personal grudges, personal attacks, subjective value judgements, even some might say sincerity in general. These destroy the group's unity. I was once looking for some weightlifting advice from an ESTp friend, and when I said that I often had a sort of shyness about lifting in front of others, his eyes glazed over as if the information did not even compute. They don't really understand these private hurts. They're like badass cyborgs who will destroy everybody with their cool. calculating nature. Something I admire, but, seriously they require very unambigious emotional feedback. Someone else compared Nas to Tupac. Just basic V.I can show you how different these two are.

Attachment 3791
It's very obvious what Tupac is feeling in this picture. He's radiating happiness. Also, if you just listen to some of his songs, you can see how they are intended for broad appeal. "Dear Mama" for example. Of course there are a few examples of the specifics from Tupac's life, but his mother in that song is almost a mythical stand-in for all mothers. When he gets to his hook, most people can I.D. with wanting their mothers to know they are appreciated. He's a holistic visionary.

Attachment 3792
Compare this to Nas. Whatever the fuck is going on inside of him emotionally, here, probably can't be easily delineated into emotional categories like "happy" or "sad". A song of his that I've been particularly obsessed with, "Get Down", is chock full of esoteric references. He elliptically eludes to Clarence Heatley's kidnapping of Rich Porter, and his cousin who is a Crip. To paraphrase Umberto Eco, another Fi user, there are some references so close that only he can see them. He's a subjective valuer.

I do believe he uses Ni, but that's because he's an Gamma introvert and therefore in touch with his inner world of both Ni + Fi. In the same way you'll often hear ENFps sharing information they find pertinent, etc. My typing is ESI.

[The Martrix]

With Ni being about the fluidity of abstract notions, Ni- about avoiding danger, Fe about identifying motivation(amongst others) and F being that value judgements>empirical data; That all converges into a self-awareness of concepts, and how that reflects(IP) in our behavior. How can an Ni Base not have reasoned their own motivations? Of all the type combinations, how can IEI not be the one that thinks about the exact type of thing Enneagram is supposed to encapsulate?

I've given it some thought, too.
So you're saying that despite IEIs possessing what seem to resemble (in a superficial way) E4 traits, an IEI cannot be E4?
How would you expect an IEI's combination of IEs manifest in motivations? Maybe the enneagram is simply too simplistic to be applied... (my word choice is simply shocking )

[The Martrix]

This just proves he's an F, not necessarily an NF.

Betas are all about external emoting. Loud jokes, loud laughing, loud music, straightfoward expression, simplistic mythical shorthand -it's all aimed at creating a truly holistic community. Possibly more than any other quadra. The one thing that Betas do not like is private feelings- private wounds, personal grudges, personal attacks, subjective value judgements, even some might say sincerity in general. These destroy the group's unity. I was once looking for some weightlifting advice from an ESTp friend, and when I said that I often had a sort of shyness about lifting in front of others, his eyes glazed over as if the information did not even compute. They don't really understand these private hurts. They're like badass cyborgs who will destroy everybody with their cool. calculating nature. Something I admire, but, seriously they require very unambigious emotional feedback. Someone else compared Nas to Tupac. Just basic V.I can show you how different these two are.

Attachment 3791
It's very obvious what Tupac is feeling in this picture. He's radiating happiness. Also, if you just listen to some of his songs, you can see how they are intended for broad appeal. "Dear Mama" for example. Of course there are a few examples of the specifics from Tupac's life, but his mother in that song is almost a mythical stand-in for all mothers. When he gets to his hook, most people can I.D. with wanting their mothers to know they are appreciated. He's a holistic visionary.

Attachment 3792
Compare this to Nas. Whatever the fuck is going on inside of him emotionally, here, probably can't be easily delineated into emotional categories like "happy" or "sad". A song of his that I've been particularly obsessed with, "Get Down", is chock full of esoteric references. He elliptically eludes to Clarence Heatley's kidnapping of Rich Porter, and his cousin who is a Crip. To paraphrase Umberto Eco, another Fi user, there are some references so close that only he can see them. He's a subjective valuer.

I do believe he uses Ni, but that's because he's an Gamma introvert and therefore in touch with his inner world of both Ni + Fi. In the same way you'll often hear ENFps sharing information they find pertinent, etc. My typing is ESI.

There's more to INFps than happy and sad. The higher the dimensionality of an IE, the more subtle and nuanced is its expression. INFps, especially the Ni subtype leave a lot of feeling inside for themselves. These feelings are never so easy to categorise as you make out. Besides, what could be more esoteric than Ni? ESIs are grounded people focus on real world ethics and relationships. The way Ni manifests in the mobilising position is wholly different to the way it manifests in the base position. It serves a different purpose. At least, that's what socionics says.

[Whoobie77]

There's more to INFps than happy and sad.

Yes, but, as with all extroverted information, it should be easy to label through symbol systems. At least, easier than its introverted counterpart.

INFps, especially the Ni subtype leave a lot of feeling inside for themselves.

Literally speaking, that would make them introverted feelers.

Besides, what could be more esoteric than Ni?

esoteric: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

information produced by any of the introverted elements could fit this definition, in that it could only be fully comprehended
by the one subjective consciousness producing it.

ESIs are grounded people focus on real world ethics and relationships... At least, that's what socionics says.

Here you have.me. I admit, that I think there are some issues with socionics theory. Stratiyevskaya, for example, seems to be operating under the assumption that all Gammas are Enneagram 6. I have my own conclusions drawing from a broader reservoir of Jungian theory, which I think is better than blind faith.

[The Martrix]

Yes, but, as with all extroverted information, it should be easy to label through symbol systems. At least, easier than its introverted counterpart.

He's posing

Literally speaking, that would make them introverted feelers.

Which fits strong but unconscious Fi, which is an INFp's second strongest function.

esoteric: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

information produced by any of the introverted elements could fit this definition, in that it could only be fully comprehended
by the one subjective consciousness producing it.

Possibly. But is this esoteric information dealing with real world ethic and relations or with dynamic and abstract concepts?

Here you have.me. I admit, that I think there are some issues with socionics theory. Stratiyevskaya, for example, seems to be operating under the assumption that all Gammas are Enneagram 6. I have my own conclusions drawing from a broader reservoir of Jungian theory, which I think is better than blind faith.

Someone has to delve deeper and shake up the theory; and for that, you have my respect. If it's worth anything...

[Whoobie77]

Possibly. But is this esoteric information dealing with real world ethic and relations or with dynamic and abstract concepts?
.

The problem, as I see it, is one between type and stereotype. Just as there have been some genius STs (Peter Schiff, Chris Langan, Warren Buffet, Marilyn von Savant [maybe]) who can kick some ass at the kind of theoretical stuff usually thought to be reserved for NTs, so to do I think it's possible that SFs can deal with symbolic art and other stuff usually reserved for NFs. This so-called "bias against sensors" is a recognized problem in typing communities in general (http://www.celebritytypes.com/blog/2...nst-sensation/). This kind of "sensor hate" seems especially problematic in socionics when it comes to Gamma SFs, because Aushra was their conflictor/superego. I think she understood these types the least, and it really shows. Over at celebritypes, the ESI equivalent is called "unassuming yet passionate aesthetes". Yet the socionics literature makes them out to be only these dull workaholics, even though they should be the quasi-identical of the "lazy hedonist" SEIs. I think ESIs can be like those storytelling EIIs, albeit a bit more visceral in delivery.

IEIs are a very rare type (from MBTI statistics, ESIs make up 1 out of every 10 people, while IEIs are about 1 in a 100). You guys are anima of the alpha males of the world; you're quite unique. I think it's unfortunate when that label gets dilluted. Internally, deep down, despite all your cuddliness, I think you guys have analytic minds of steel (Ti). Idk, but I think Nas is emotional on the inside.

Crap, I think that did a terrible job of trying to visualize what I was trying to express and clear up the snarkiness. Ah well.

[The Martrix]

The problem, as I see it, is one between type and stereotype. Just as there have been some genius STs (Peter Schiff, Chris Langan, Warren Buffet, Marilyn von Savant [maybe]) who can kick some ass at the kind of theoretical stuff usually thought to be reserved for NTs, so to do I think it's possible that SFs can deal with symbolic art and other stuff usually reserved for NFs. This so-called "bias against sensors" is a recognized problem in typing communities in general (http://www.celebritytypes.com/blog/2...nst-sensation/). This kind of "sensor hate" seems especially problematic in socionics when it comes to Gamma SFs, because Aushra was their conflictor/superego. I think she understood these types the least, and it really shows. Over at celebritypes, the ESI equivalent is called "unassuming yet passionate aesthetes". Yet the socionics literature makes them out to be only these dull workaholics, even though they should be the quasi-identical of the "lazy hedonist" SEIs. I think ESIs can be like those storytelling EIIs, albeit a bit more visceral in delivery.

IEIs are a very rare type (from MBTI statistics, ESIs make up 1 out of every 10 people, while IEIs are about 1 in a 100). You guys are anima of the alpha males of the world; you're quite unique. I think it's unfortunate when that label gets dilluted. Internally, deep down, despite all your cuddliness, I think you guys have analytic minds of steel (Ti). Idk, but I think Nas is emotional on the inside.

Crap, I think that did a terrible job of trying to visualize what I was trying to express and clear up the snarkiness. Ah well.

No snarkiness detected. I agree on the bias against sensors. It peeved me greatly when I was looking at MBTI. We need to clear up the stereotypes.
I think it's less a question of what one is good at, and more of a question of what one deems to be of value. If someone thinks, "hold on, this other side of me that I never bother to look at might have some potential," then they can explore that other side normally associated with an intuitive if they're a sensor, or a sensor of they're an intuitive. In our everyday lives, our ego IMs dictate what's important, and they rest of our psyche just follows the party line, so to speak. For example, if one focuses on efficiency, one loses time to be imaginative, and vice-versa. Both have their uses. We just all need to learn to be balanced, I guess. Do you agree?

[Erk]

All I have to say is come at Nas if you want a war.

[darya]

This just proves he's an F, not necessarily an NF.

Betas are all about external emoting. Loud jokes, loud laughing, loud music, straightfoward expression, simplistic mythical shorthand -it's all aimed at creating a truly holistic community. Possibly more than any other quadra. The one thing that Betas do not like is private feelings- private wounds, personal grudges, personal attacks, subjective value judgements, even some might say sincerity in general. These destroy the group's unity. ,.

I think you're way oversimplifying people - it's not so black and white - only Fe/retarded Fi, only Fi/retarded Fe. There are four very different types in Beta, so you can't just take SLE's and their Fi-PoLR and apply it to all other types. Imo Beta NF's way prefer external emoting (loud jokes, loud laughing, loud music,) to serious discussions about subjective value judgments and private wounds, but to say they only have very obvious emotional expresions like sad/happy/angry and hate all sincerity is bs. Ni-IEI's ussually come off as hard to read and misterious, not all over the place with their emotional expressions.I think longer exposure to serious discussions drains Beta NF's quickly and they return to their bubbly selves and they want to light up the mood again and connect the group. And really, SLE's are against private attacts? Not in my experience and they are pretty damn pro at distroying a group atmosphere.

I've read your opinions about the difference between Beta and Delta NF's and agreed with you to a certain point. I believe Beta NF's are much more violent (in the agressive, not so delicate, Se aprecciating way), but to almost make them into these violent brute psychopats is waaaaay over the top - that is why they are IEI's and not SLE's (they are extremely different and that makes them duals, they are not identicals for god sakes). IEI's just respond well to violent brute psychopaths (just kidding, that was to lighten up the mood )

Do you really think that if a person believes in soulmates (I don't at all, so this is not about me), they cannot be a Beta NF? Aren't IEI's of all types called the romanticists -plenty of them romanticize and dramatize their private wounds and suffering in poems and other artistic forms.
They can be very lovey-dovey , but I agree with you that they are generally not about Kumbaya hand holding stuff, but more about revolutionary "let's fuck everything up" changes.

I hope you don't feel that I'm attacking you, I just thought you have a too narrow view of IEI's

[Pookie]

Literally speaking, that would make them introverted feelers.



esoteric: intended for or likely to be understood by only a small number of people with a specialized knowledge or interest.

information produced by any of the introverted elements could fit this definition, in that it could only be fully comprehended
by the one subjective consciousness producing it.

Literally speaking, all people are introverted feelers.
But Socionics uses that term figuratively(or metaphorically) as a stand in to denote boundaries of its concepts. Literally speaking has nothing to do with it. Apples and Oranges.

Esoteric does fit Introverted more than Extroverted for sure, but it also fits Pi more than Ji, because its harder to understand something that needs to be percieved than something that can be concluded. And Ni > Si because Ni is about abstractions that arent tangible, and Si at least has a connectedness with the real world around it.
Ni is absolutely the most Esoteric Function.

[Whoobie77]

, but to say they only have very obvious emotional expresions like sad/happy/angry and hate all sincerity is bs.

I think IEIs have a nuanced and colorful emotional expression. I just think what they are feeling is easier to describe than Fi.

To me, Fe seems insincere because it's in my super-ego. You have to understand that I'm coming from a subjective place like everybody else.

Not in my experience and they are pretty damn pro at distroying a group atmosphere.

Yes, but in my opinion this usually takes the form of them shouting politically incorrect epithets in an attempt to gain laughs (Fe HA) rather than sniping particular people due to personal grudges.

but to almost make them into these violent brute psychopats is waaaaay over the top

Hey, I like Betas partially because of this . Remember we share half our functions in common. If you guys are Hit ler doing the saber-rattlings, us Gammas are Eichmann, ruthlessly carrying out the bureaucratic, efficient killings

(they are extremely different and that makes them duals, they are not identicals for god sakes).

Yes, but every IEI does have a secret SLE inside of him or her.

Do you really think that if a person believes in soulmates (I don't at all, so this is not about me), they cannot be a Beta NF? Aren't IEI's of all types called the romanticists -plenty of them romanticize and dramatize their private wounds and suffering in poems and other artistic forms.

I never typed Shakespeare. I'm just saying that concept that "the universe has a stable relationship bond intended for me!" sounds more NeFi than FeNi. And yes, IEIs are called the romanticists. But I think they are more likely to be trying to convince everyone they have magic perceptual powers and this is why they should be made into a demigod rather than writing sappy poems to be locked in a drawer.

[The Martrix]

Yes, but in my opinion this usually takes the form of them shouting politically incorrect epithets in an attempt to gain laughs (Fe HA) rather than sniping particular people due to personal grudges.

Talking about politically incorrect:

Hey, I like Betas partially because of this . Remember we share half our functions in common. If you guys are Hit ler doing the saber-rattlings, us Gammas are Eichmann, ruthlessly carrying out the bureaucratic, efficient killings

Yes, but every IEI does have a secret SLE inside of him or her.

So don't p*** us off!

I never typed Shakespeare. I'm just saying that concept that "the universe has a stable relationship bond intended for me!" sounds more NeFi than FeNi. And yes, IEIs are called the romanticists. But I think they are more likely to be trying to convince everyone they have magic perceptual powers and this is why they should be made into a demigod rather than writing sappy poems to be locked in a drawer.

Unfortunately I don't have a lock on the drawer where I keep my sappy poems.

[Whoobie77]

Esoteric does fit Introverted more than Extroverted for sure, but it also fits Pi more than Ji.

The only way "esoteric" entered into this conversation was my definition of it for my own analysis of Nas. How can my own definition of what I meant be wrong?

[darya]

I think IEIs have a nuanced and colorful emotional expression. I just think what they are feeling is easier to describe than Fi.
To me, Fe seems insincere because it's in my super-ego. You have to understand that I'm coming from a subjective place like everybody else.

Yeah, I can imagine it can seem very insincere and it is at times. And I obviously agree that Fi types are in general harder to read.

Yes, but in my opinion this usually takes the form of them shouting politically incorrect epithets in an attempt to gain laughs (Fe HA) rather than sniping particular people due to personal grudges.

I know several SLE's who destroy or get rid of people due to personal grudges and are also quick to make cruel jokes on other's expense inside the group. Buuut they can be absolutely hilarious (the only other two types who make me rofl as much are ILE's and ILI's (and ofc IEI's )

Hey, I like Betas partially because of this . Remember we share half our functions in common. If you guys are Hit ler doing the saber-rattlings, us Gammas are Eichmann, ruthlessly carrying out the bureaucratic, efficient killings

Hey, I like Beta for the same reasons

Yes, but every IEI does have a secret SLE inside of him or her.

This is very true. There's a little arrogant asshole living inside every IEI.

I never typed Shakespeare. I'm just saying that concept that "the universe has a stable relationship bond intended for me!" sounds more NeFi than FeNi. And yes, IEIs are called the romanticists. But I think they are more likely to be trying to convince everyone they have magic perceptual powers and this is why they should be made into a demigod rather than writing sappy poems to be locked in a drawer.

I have no idea about Shakespeare's type, but I'm sure IEI's have written a lot of sappy poems throughout history. We're demigods nonetheless .

[Whoobie77]

Talking about politically incorrect:

Attachment 3794

[Pookie]

The only way "esoteric" entered into this conversation was my definition of it for my own analysis of Nas. How can my own definition of what I meant be wrong?

Because you used a word that incorrectly describes what you meant, per the definition of the word.

[Park]

Yeah that just sounds like IP in general(Melancholy). ILI, IEI, SLI, SEI, from left to right i think would exhibit that the most.

Being calm, poised, nonchalant, inexpressive, pensive, etc. is something that often gets interpreted as being devoid of Fe, I guess.

[Park]

Nas is expressive af though

I see your point. I meant expressive as in emotionally and overtly expressive/reactive in the present moment.

Nas knows how to create a buzz and generate excitement very well, only Kanye is better than him in that regard.

Well, that's interesting considering how Kanye is usually typed LIE or SEE. But we shouldn't try to make any isolated one-to-one correlations or down we go the rabbit hole again. Anyway...

[Kill4Me]

he's a shoe-in for ILI-Te 5w4 sx/sp

Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ili-te/

Previously Acquired: https://stackemup.livejournal.com/3887.html

[Breather]

He's definitely emotional > logical though and he has that creative Fe optimism in his songs and interviews. IEI makes the most sense for him easily.

"And I don't wanna keep bringing up the greater times
But I'm a dreamer nostalgic with the state of mind"

"Whose world is this?
The world is yours, the world is yours
It's mine, it's mine, it's mine—whose world is this?
The world is yours, the world is yours
It's mine, it's mine, it's mine—whose world is this?
(It's yours)
It's mine, it's mine, it's mine—whose world is this?
The world is yours, the world is yours
It's mine, it's mine, it's mine—whose world is this?"

Thinkin' a word best describin' my life to name my daughter
My strength, my son, the star will be my resurrection
Born in correction, all the wrong shit I did
He'll lead a right direction

[Breather]

he's a shoe-in for ILI-Te 5w4 sx/sp

Added: https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ili-te/

Previously Acquired: https://stackemup.livejournal.com/3887.html

Nah he's not Te creative or Te valuing, Jay-Z is Te valuing for example. Albums like Untitled, Streets Disciple and Hip Hop is Dead indicate Nas's creative Fe.
I could see cp6 but honestly sx/sp doesn't really make sense for him, I think he's an obvious social dominant especially with his subject matter.

so/sx 6w5(with a 1 and 4 fix possibly)

[Breather]

He's IEI

[Kill4Me]

ILI-Te 5w4 sx/sp

Nas doesn't purge out the archetypes, phantoms, mirages, and counterintuitions of a unique, highly detailed imagination through the intense emotional honesty of Fe-creative (there's no Fe-creative in sight); rather, his creative function disseminates out the archetypes, phantoms, mirages, and counterintuition through a brilliant but rigid and predictable technical structure/organization (Te-Creative):

More on that:

https://www.rapanalysis.com/2015/04/...usic-3-is-nas/

If Nas were an IEI, Te would be his vulnerable function. There is no way that Te is his vulnerable function....there's too strong a tint of shoulds and oughts in the deliberate technical structuring/organization of his rap music. Go through the article.

VI is right on:

https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ili-te/

[strrrng]

I still think IEI-Ni, but am a little less familiar with him than I am with someone like Em. But overall he just seems to embody beta aristocratic values, both in terms of how he represents his social realm, i.e. One Mic, and the way he interacts with others, whether it be being Rakim's (obvious LSI) chosen one or maintaining Ni/Se rapport with an LIE like Jay-Z amidst beef and career ambitions (I wouldn't expect an ILI to have as polarized a relationship with someone like that).

For instance, you have an album like Illmatic, which is effectively an IEI describing criminality in a way that is accessible to anyone willing to listen. Whether it be N.Y. State of Mind's blithe recollections of shootouts or Life's a Bitch's Ni-tinged musings on the social attitudes of those who've had no choice but to adapt to their circumstances, it really does just resonate beta.

I think where things become ambiguous is in his e-type. So-primary seems like a safe bet, and if Street's Disciple is any indication, so/sp would be a more apposite reflection of the way his aristocratic values manifested, with 4w5 being the obvious base type choice. 5w4 appears similar, but he focuses on fleshing out inner states far too much and simply has too naturally expressive of an artistic ethos for a head type to make sense.

[Breather]

ILI-Te 5w4 sx/sp

Nas doesn't purge out the archetypes, phantoms, mirages, and counterintuitions of a unique, highly detailed imagination through the intense emotional honesty of Fe-creative (there's no Fe-creative in sight); rather, his creative function disseminates out the archetypes, phantoms, mirages, and counterintuition through a brilliant but rigid and predictable technical structure/organization (Te-Creative):

More on that:

https://www.rapanalysis.com/2015/04/...usic-3-is-nas/

If Nas were an IEI, Te would be his vulnerable function. There is no way that Te is his vulnerable function....there's too strong a tint of shoulds and oughts in the deliberate technical structuring/organization of his rap music. Go through the article.

VI is right on:

https://www.pinterest.com/socionics/ili-te/

"Nas doesn't purge out the archetypes, phantoms, mirages, and counterintuitions of a unique, highly detailed imagination through the intense emotional honesty of Fe-creative"

Yes he does
He's IEI-Ni

[perpetuus]

My immediate impression is beta introvert.

[Takedown]