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Thread: Two friends compared

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    Default Two friends compared

    Long time has passed since I did my type-me thread. I'm actually even less sure about my type, among other things because my particular vision/interpretation of Socionics has become less standard. But I'm open to consider most interpretations/suggestions.

    I would like to face this type-me in a different way. I will not answer that set of predefined questions (did it in the previous one). I will present some pictures of me and a friend and use him as a contrast. So I will expose some compared behaviors and offer a set of plausible interpretations without ignoring contradictions when they appear.



    Here is my friend (guy) with a common friend. He is a clear-cut Ij, LII most likely (EII as a second option). Notice his tense pose (Ij). He avoids the camera, turning his head a bit in what has been commonly called "creative Ne gaze".



    Me with my friend. I usually had troubles smiling in front of a camera (expressing emotions, not because I feel too much uncomfortable), except with close friends like this occasion. He maintains his uncomfortable pose, whereas I'm more relaxed.



    Usual gaze/pose. Looking to the camera without being interested in it. Smiling to an object? What a nonsense...



    Selfie.



    Dressed for a wedding.

    Despite being quite intelligent, a mix of bad memory and a bit of dyslexia (maybe the cause of the former?) weakens my friend's skill for making the "purest" Ti reasonings a la LII, which makes me doubt if LII or EII. Anyway he's very stable (mood), quite logic (general logic) in his reasonings, always act with a purpose in mind and tries to go to the point. Big pictured. Very organized, reliable, constant in his efforts to do something. Extremely reserved, I have to try a lot for getting personal information from him even for what we could usually consider trivial stuff (and I succeeded in this task more than many others of his friends). Trustable. Moralistic and bit utopian, but always in a personal way. Never tries to impose, respect everybody. All of this consistent with being a LII. Ij is sure, LII is reasonable, EII is an alternative. I discard ESI because I do not perceive a tint of Se or Se valuing in him.

    I've mostly oscillated between ILI and LII in my self-typing. Before joining this forum I thought I was an ILE, which is the same type Korpsey thought I have (what happened to that guy, by the way?). Jim proposed LSE; I frankly think that's a bad typing. I have even considered EIE due to being unable to reconciliate the contradictions I perceive in myself if alpha or gamma. Some girl, Pianosinger if I remember properly, suggested LIE. I personally think I'm too moody and not enough assertive for being a LIE. If this is the answer E7 and E8 should be excluded, leaving only E6 and E1 as reasonable enneagram options.

    Let's start the comparison:

    -My friend is quite stable. His emotional outburst, when they happen (very rarely) are usually caused by what he perceives as a strong injustice (general), or prejudice against himself, and not in a very loudy way. He apparently can detach himself from his emotions "at will" because even when when he's worried, had a big trouble, etc, is still able to keep doing whatever he's doing without being affected or using a particular strong will for dominating the situation. I'm quite moody, I would say even emotionally unstable. Even if emotions usually do not "corrupt" my way of reasoning (affecting my conclusions about what's true or not), they quite affect my behavior. I simply cannot function when I'm depressed, with an inclination to feeling "hopeless" in such situations. My intensity of emotions is much broader; usually neutral but when I'm happy I could manifest more happines than him, the same for sadness or anger. All of this could be interpreted as P+L or F+J. I would discard F+P because in that way emotions should also affect my way of thinking, imo.

    -He's quite more social and kind than me. I have more troubles for socializing than him and in fact dislike people more than him. This could be interpreted in many ways, like: F for him and T for me, could be; E for him and I for me, or simply I'm more antisocial than him.

    -He "accepts" people more easily than I do. I have a trend to separate people who I like and trust, becoming part of my "inner circle" and people who I do not like and/or trust, who are outside it. Although I try to be polite to everyone except if I really dislike someone in particular, I won't usually behave in the same way in front of one case of the alternative. Combined with the former point, it could suggest he belongs to a democratic quadra and I belong to an aristocratic one.

    -He's more restrained and much more reserved. I can easily share personal aspects and become much more intense in my interactions (with my friends). Introversion (him) versus extroversion (me)?

    -He has a bit of an utopic way of thinking, believing that people can achieve understanding between each other, achieve concensus, and the world could work appropiately if "evil people" lacks power. He understands how the world work, but simply has higher opinion of humanity and hope than myself. Although he respects different points of views, he has a morality closer to Kantian principles (something could be inherently bad or good). I'm more cynical, and closer to a consequentialist morality. When I was a teenager I believed something like "perfect society" could be achieved, I now simply understand that that's de facto impossible. So the best I can do is to try to achieve an "utopia of one person" as long as I'm not inherently damaging other people (libertarian morality?).

    -Despite the former point, I tend to be more judgemental than him. As long as he does not see anything inherently evil in someone, he respects everybody. I know I have no right to impose my views in oters, but when I like something I or I dislike something I feel it and assert this more intensely. These two points could be explained in many ways, so I will not propose a cause.

    -He's a direct-t-the-point person. Like most LIIs I have know IRL and most clear LIIs here (Labcoat, Logos, etc), he tends to express his ideas in a simple, clear, way. I do exactly the opposite; long explanations, never leaving the context or the steps implicit, really love introductions. He sometimes complains, when we're debating, that I overload him with so much information that he's unable to process. It's not like I'm trying to trick him, but I simply do that. I dump all the information I have connected in my mind, This also admits several interpretations, I vs E, F vs T ( in this case I would be the F) or process versus result for those of you who like Reinin (I do not but here you have anyway).

    -He wants what he deserves, no more no less. If possible, he will dedicate his life to those things that make him happy, without disturbing anyone or being disturbed. I see this as an alpha behavior. I cannot (and usually want not) be happy only for the sake of being happy, like if I need a purpose in life, something relevant, not trivial. I feel a sort or need to expand myself, to project what I have inside and mold the world accordingly. This is not the same as fighting for a cause, as a LII or EII would do, for example. This could suggest some sort of betaness in myself, but I recognize I tend to see betas as too brutal. So what, unassertive beta? Gamma Ni/Se? None of this?

    Well, it has been a big wall of text. Sorry if too tiring...

    I would like to read opinions about this, specially how do you integrate this information in a coherent type, contradictions included.

    -EDIT-

    Some alternative picture for compensating:



    This one could be a bit closer to my true neutral state instead those two where I'm too "grumpy".
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 05-19-2015 at 04:30 PM.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    You said LSE is a bad typing for you, but you also see yourself somewhat between Alpha and Gamma values (and considered Beta as a compromise). From what I've read in your your text, Te-SLI might actually be a possibility for you. Delta is an aristocratic quadra and what you said about moodiness/emotional instability could be related to a Fi hidden agenda. As I have said before, the stereotype of the SLI does not suggest an overly intellectual person, but I'm very sure that this is not a disqualifier (especially if you are E5 or have an 5 wing).

    I don't know how reliable this assessment is. It's been quite a while since I thought about socionics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    You said LSE is a bad typing for you, but you also see yourself somewhat between Alpha and Gamma values (and considered Beta as a compromise). From what I've read in your your text, Te-SLI might actually be a possibility for you. Delta is an aristocratic quadra and what you said about moodiness/emotional instability could be related to a Fi hidden agenda. As I have said before, the stereotype of the SLI does not suggest an overly intellectual person, but I'm very sure that this is not a disqualifier (especially if you are E5 or have an 5 wing).

    I don't know how reliable this assessment is. It's been quite a while since I thought about socionics.
    LSE is a bad typing due to several reasons. There are exceptions of course, but they're, statistically, too "by the book" rule followers. I have many troubles for working appropiately in their beloved hyper-structured environments. If I came with an alternative way of doing something (which is something natural in me) they tend to reject it inmediately if it's not officially approved, even when it's something simple and I'm usng common knowledge in the particular field (I also loathe menial work). I'm not efficient enough for being a Te dom, and I lack their stamina. My energy for doing something could get easily depleted if I'm not specially motivated. Although I'm not completely sure if it's really a problem of natural stamina, or a problem of motivation...

    Also LSE=Edison. I am much closer to his "foe" Tesla (ILE for many, ILI for some).

    Te-SLI sounds more reasonable, more with the +E5 characteristics you've mentioned. But they're simultaneously Fe PoLR and Se devaluers. They lack the top two expressive functions. I'm a bit antisocial, but I have to admit I quite enjoy influencing others, projecting myself, so to speach. It causes me a lot of satisfaction knowing I've made other people to change their ideas, and when I'm expressing something I do not limit myself to pure information, I try to color or format it in a more convincing way. I'm not saying manipulating, that would be convincing about something you do not believe or only for personal gain. I'm simply saying I'm aware of the psychological effects of the way you express information, and I do not ignore that resource. I consider myself quite more expressive than the average SLI.

    The general problem with deltas is I see them as too conservative, in a broader sense. They try to maintain untouched whatever they consider important in their lives, religion or culture for some, Nature for others, etc. That goes against my core being. I'm an industrialist if such word exist, my natural impulse is to create, to expand, not to maintain. To transform something that already exist, or to build something that has yet to become... It's explained in the last big point of the OP. That "feeling" I see much closer to beta and apparently incompatible with delta essence. Many times I lack the energy for applying this essence I have, and this is something I do not like about myself. I doubt I could be rational except maybe some kind of EIE due to its particular characteristics.

    I also see incompatibilities with beta, mainly in tho aspects: they're too prone to ideologies, like they tend to believe an idea could be right by itself (something I see as absurd) and they're too social, groupal or whatever word.

    My unfitting in alpha quadra is mainly about their carpe-diem attitude. happiness for the sake of happines and so on. I cannot see myself with an ESE or SEI as duals, really.

    About gamma, I have mixed feelings. Many times I agree with them but it's like I have quite different goals. They're by average too pragmatic. I understand the importance of Te, but it's not like if I like that function to define my life.

    So, I'm far from picking one type. I feel tempted to choose ILE, but I would be a very particular one, due to what I've already commented and that I'm more introspective than many ILEs I've known. Not necessarily introverted or shy, but introspective in the true sense of the world. I'm a bit obsessed with mental states, like if I feel once I can stabilize the appropiate one I would be able to solve both internal and external problems...

    You can see, what a mess. Thanks for the contribution.
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 06-11-2014 at 11:51 AM.

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    I see Si sort of features, but you do not give off that emotional warmth of Fe paired with Si. Your gaze seems more focused and angular. Yeah, SLI may be a good cursory guess.
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    You look very very Delta, and yeah, a lot more Si than Ne.

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    Interesting development of events. Until now all participants see me as delta Si. Weird thing is that I'm quite hypochondriac, something that seems to be non compatible with Si egos. Or maybe it's NTR. And in the particular case of LSE I have many troubles seeing myself as this type due to many things already commented.

    I've always considered myself intuitive mainly due to one particular reason: I live in my own mind, literally. This is not just a personal perception, everybody who knows me asserts this point. Interaction with the external world reduced to the minimum, mind full of ideas of all kind (this does not imply that they're necessarily correct or better); my friend has compared me with Rodney Mckay (Stargate Atlantis) many times. Inability to focus myself in external sensoric details (the best example, very very bad orientation when driving, colliding with everything when walking, etc). Another example: always monochromatic and messed up (unreadable) handwriting. But who knows, maybe I'm just an E5 so sunk in his 5ness that only appears to be intuitive.

    LSE+E5 is a weird combo, but SLI+E5 is reasonable after all. I'm curious for more opinions, specially delta "feelings" about this topic.

    @Narc, due to the fact that you're most likely LIE, if I may ask, do you think you would feel some kind of supervision by me, IRL?
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 06-14-2014 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    @Narc, due to the fact that you're most likely LIE, if I may ask, do you think you would feel some kind of supervision by me, IRL?
    It's possible. But maybe only if we worked together. I don't find supervision comes out much during regular conversation. I have a couple SLI friends but all we do is drink together.

    For the most part, I only feel the supervision scorn of SLIs when I do something too hastily and make a mistake that could have been avoided if I took things more slowly, but then again, when I'm busy, I squeeze value out of every last bit of time and they don't, so they tend to have more room to move.

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    My first thought from your original post was SLI for what it's worth.

    Te vs Ti between yourself and your friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    My first thought from your original post was SLI for what it's worth.

    Te vs Ti between yourself and your friend.
    Although I have not commented about the girl (first picture), what type do you think would fit in her (VI)? Her smile seems Fi-like to me.

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    she looks Ne as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    she looks Ne as well.
    Yes, Fi-EII makes a lot of sense. It fits well in how she is and her interactions with both my friend and myself.

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    i don't see SLI.

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    b/c you see nothing.


    *echoes*





    (i wanted to steal that all day).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    i don't see SLI.
    Could you elaborate why? And what do you see, fwiw?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    . I have many troubles for working appropiately in their beloved hyper-structured environments.
    This is a symptom of irrationality imo.


    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I do not limit myself to pure information, I try to color or format it in a more convincing way. I'm not saying manipulating, that would be convincing about something you do not believe or only for personal gain. I'm simply saying I'm aware of the psychological effects of the way you express information, and I do not ignore that resource.
    So Te is not your first function, but I would say accurate information is important to your understanding of the world, and probably the second one in your Ego. So SLI or ILI.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    To transform something that already exist, or to build something that has yet to become... It's explained in the last big point of the OP.
    If you compare how the extroverted perception functions, Ne and Se, which would be opposite your Si or Ni, are portrayed at sociotype.com, I think you will see which of the two of these is more in line with this statement. Ne is described as "seeing the world as a starting point for generating new, unrealized possibilities" while Se is described as "seeing the world as a place you can easily affect change in".

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    My unfitting in alpha quadra is mainly about their carpe-diem attitude. happiness for the sake of happines and so on. I cannot see myself with an ESE or SEI as duals, really.
    Not to be rude, but you have a very dry, textbook style of communication which is totally at odds with the usual online persona of Alpha NTs. They are usually playing the part of the troll and their cognition is usually not in paragraph form due to the fact that they think internally (Ti). Alpha SFs want someone they can baby who also won't spoil the group mood. Tbh that doesn't really sound like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    About gamma, I have mixed feelings. Many times I agree with them but it's like I have quite different goals. They're by average too pragmatic. I understand the importance of Te, but it's not like if I like that function to define my life.
    From Wikisocion, creative function:

    In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important.

    Once again, Te is probably your second function.

    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    So, I'm far from picking one type. I feel tempted to choose ILE, but I would be a very particular one, due to what I've already commented and that I'm more introspective than many ILEs I've known. Not necessarily introverted or shy, but introspective in the true sense of the world. I'm a bit obsessed with mental states, like if I feel once I can stabilize the appropiate one I would be able to solve both internal and external problems...
    I highly doubt it. In the conversation we had the other day, with you positing that the gold standard is "Will it work?" would make me suspicious that you are anything but a Te Ego. I was arguing the viewpoint of an LII (as an aside, I'm a somewhat odd Gamma NT. I was raised by an ESE and so as a survival mechanism I got fairly in touch with my id block) and you brushed it all aside for the Te viewpoint. Your skepticism of the the socionics system seems fairly in line with the rest of the proposed Te Egos who hang around here, and consistent with the model in that Te users should be skeptical of a model created mostly by two Ti users (ILE, Aushra; Beta NF, Jung). I hope you'll excuse the fact that I'm using the model at a kind of ridiculous meta level, but that's the best way I can explain the observation.

    So yeah, I would say XLI for sure. I'd be inclined to lean towards ILI, but, I think beyond this you'll just have to do some introspecting as to whether you need more willpower or more possibilities in your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    This is a symptom of irrationality imo.
    Agree.

    So Te is not your first function, but I would say accurate information is important to your understanding of the world, and probably the second one in your Ego. So SLI or ILI.
    It is extremely important to my worldview, but it is not the core source of my goals. In such case it works as a corrector or adjuster: "this will work/won't work/any intermediate point". Te creative sounds quite reasonable.

    If you compare how the extroverted perception functions, Ne and Se, which would be opposite your Si or Ni, are portrayed at sociotype.com, I think you will see which of the two of these is more in line with this statement. Ne is described as "seeing the world as a starting point for generating new, unrealized possibilities" while Se is described as "seeing the world as a place you can easily affect change in".
    Hard to say. This could be the key point, but I have no clear answer. My potential Pe-DS could be described as this: let's imagine I'm navigating a river on a canoe. The river has many streams, and I'm on one of them. For whatever reason, I would like to be on a different one, but I have very little idea how to carry myself from where I am to where I would like to be. I feel like I I am dragged by the current.

    As you probably have already imagined, the river is my life and the current is the flux of events. Is this feeling consistent with Ne-DS or Se-DS? I see arguments for both of them. You could change from one stream to another one both by will (Se-DS) and by taking advantage of opportunities (Ne-DS).

    Anyway, inertia is a big problem for me.

    Not to be rude, but you have a very dry, textbook style of communication which is totally at odds with the usual online persona of Alpha NTs. They are usually playing the part of the troll and their cognition is usually not in paragraph form due to the fact that they think internally (Ti). Alpha SFs want someone they can baby who also won't spoil the group mood. Tbh that doesn't really sound like you.
    I cannot get offended by something that is simple true, so no problem. I even has the same style of spoken communication IRL, but only when I'm debating about some topic, that is, in "serious mode". I can act as a troll, but only in "relaxed mode" with friends. I have very little torerance for small talk, specially gossiping, which is something I clash a lot with alpha SFs.

    Cognition in paragraph form. I like that description, it fits quite well in what it's expected in Te egos, both as dynamic and unvalued Fe.

    From Wikisocion, creative function:

    In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important.

    Once again, Te is probably your second function.
    It seems so.

    I highly doubt it. In the conversation we had the other day, with you positing that the gold standard is "Will it work?" would make me suspicious that you are anything but a Te Ego. I was arguing the viewpoint of an LII (as an aside, I'm a somewhat odd Gamma NT. I was raised by an ESE and so as a survival mechanism I got fairly in touch with my id block) and you brushed it all aside for the Te viewpoint. Your skepticism of the the socionics system seems fairly in line with the rest of the proposed Te Egos who hang around here, and consistent with the model in that Te users should be skeptical of a model created mostly by two Ti users (ILE, Aushra; Beta NF, Jung). I hope you'll excuse the fact that I'm using the model at a kind of ridiculous meta level, but that's the best way I can explain the observation.

    So yeah, I would say XLI for sure. I'd be inclined to lean towards ILI, but, I think beyond this you'll just have to do some introspecting as to whether you need more willpower or more possibilities in your life.
    I am aware that the average ILE has no few differences with me. But as I had troubles for finding a reasobaly consistent archetype for myself, I have had to strain type descriptions in an attempt to find the least bad candidate. ILEs are the alphas with stronger Te, and they're also irrationals. The are some examples of quite antisocial ILEs, or at least socially clumsy. But I quite dislike the most clowny variants, and Fi PoLR is problematic. That "I do whatever I want" attitude, so to speak, is alien to me (even if they do not do it intentionally). Obviously I do not like to bend myself to others, but I'm aware of different POVs, values, etc, and I'm willing to negotiate a common ground when required.

    As you said, the way they build their reasonings is different from mine, and if functions are mainly information processors, this suggest a difference beyond styles or variations of the same core type.

    So with all of this, I agree about Te creative. But deciding between Ni and Si, I'm not sure. I have always thought I'm intuitive because I live in my mind and always have lived in my mind; external interaction with the world is reduced to the minimum. I'm also quite prone to theoretical analysis, not an intuitive exclusive domain, but usually more appealing to them. I do not actively seek pleasant sensoric stimuli as an Si ego would do, and I'm quite hypochiondriac which is apparently non compatible. The closest thing to Si ego that comes to my mind is low tolerance to thermal discomfort and a mineral collection I have since my childhood. Their forms and colors have had always been a bit hypnotizing (shiny, shiny), but never cared too much about other forms of enjoying "external beauty".

    So apparently Ni would be the solution but... although my way of reasoning is similar to ILIs (running mental simulations) my final ideas are somehow a bit more tangible, corporeal, more in line to Ne ideas. Some ILIs seem so sunk in their internal framework that when they express an idea it seems they're talking to themselves instead other people. Like if they were unable to put words in a common context which does not depend on their personal subjectivity. Obviously not all ILIs are like this, but some of them are, specially Ni sub variant. I usually do not have this trouble in communication, I do not find problematic to express ideas in a way that could be grasp by everyone, by reducing complexity, using analogies, etc, as Ne egos commonly do.

    This fact makes me feel a bit inclined for SLI over ILI, and to consider that my theoretical inclinations and extreme introversion could be caused by E5 instead of socionics aspects. But regardless SLI or ILI, subtype is likely Te, not Pi.

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    By the way. You said you're a a bit odd gamma NT because you've been raised by an ESE.

    I LIVE in an alpha country, Spain. So you can imagine...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post

    Hard to say. This could be the key point, but I have no clear answer. My potential Pe-DS could be described as this: let's imagine I'm navigating a river on a canoe. The river has many streams, and I'm on one of them. For whatever reason, I would like to be on a different one, but I have very little idea how to carry myself from where I am to where I would like to be. I feel like I I am dragged by the current.

    As you probably have already imagined, the river is my life and the current is the flux of events. Is this feeling consistent with Ne-DS or Se-DS? I see arguments for both of them. You could change from one stream to another one both by will (Se-DS) and by taking advantage of opportunities (Ne-DS).

    Anyway, inertia is a big problem for me.
    I agree, this "flux of events" could be either Si or Ni cognition. I think it can be said, though, that you are definitely a Dynamic. I think the difference between how the two perceive the flux of events is that Si is more reminiscent, while Ni is prescient. Si is about storing and reflecting on previous sensations; Ni is the photo negative of the will, and is therefore about trying to predict actions before they happen. I think once you figure out if your orientation is towards the future or the past, you'll have your answer. (With your predispositions towards religion, I have my suspicions.)

    An inability to muster up the will to do something sounds more Ni than Si, too.



    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    So with all of this, I agree about Te creative. But deciding between Ni and Si, I'm not sure. I have always thought I'm intuitive because I live in my mind and always have lived in my mind; external interaction with the world is reduced to the minimum. I'm also quite prone to theoretical analysis, not an intuitive exclusive domain, but usually more appealing to them. I do not actively seek pleasant sensoric stimuli as an Si ego would do, and I'm quite hypochiondriac which is apparently non compatible. The closest thing to Si ego that comes to my mind is low tolerance to thermal discomfort and a mineral collection I have since my childhood. Their forms and colors have had always been a bit hypnotizing (shiny, shiny), but never cared too much about other forms of enjoying "external beauty".

    So apparently Ni would be the solution but... although my way of reasoning is similar to ILIs (running mental simulations) my final ideas are somehow a bit more tangible, corporeal, more in line to Ne ideas. Some ILIs seem so sunk in their internal framework that when they express an idea it seems they're talking to themselves instead other people. Like if they were unable to put words in a common context which does not depend on their personal subjectivity. Obviously not all ILIs are like this, but some of them are, specially Ni sub variant. I usually do not have this trouble in communication, I do not find problematic to express ideas in a way that could be grasp by everyone, by reducing complexity, using analogies, etc, as Ne egos commonly do.

    This fact makes me feel a bit inclined for SLI over ILI, and to consider that my theoretical inclinations and extreme introversion could be caused by E5 instead of socionics aspects. But regardless SLI or ILI, subtype is likely Te, not Pi.
    I think the reason why you mistook yourself for ILE might be related to the fact that socionics is a system built around the worldview of an ILE. A guy called the Ex-Socionist once posited that ILE is the integral type of socionics. Like Schopenhauer's idea that outside ideas make an imposition of a consciousness, to be in the world of socionics (or any alien system of thought, for that matter) you have to encumber yourself with a different set of cognitions. When we do socionics, we all become more ILE. I had a similar problem. When I first found socionics, I was certain I was the spitting image of ILI. As I got more entrenched in the system, I started to mistake myself for ILE. Now I'm back to ILI again.

    Still, I think Ni types are particularly attracted to analytical psychology because it is founded on the work of Jung, an Ni type. That's why there are so many IEIs on here. I think a lot of Si/Ne types might get easily bored with it because there are myriad of other objective intuitions that are equally possible (20 types, 30 types, etc.) I think it is especially attractive to Gamma NTs, despite their reservations about its Ti reasoning and lack of Te substantiation, because it provides a holistic map of how to interpret people. Newton (ILI) once said, "I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people." Socionics has that so-called hidden knowledge. I think Delta STs are more likely to say "it is what it", taking a very literal, sensoric view of Te, and not penetrating the issue much further. My grandfather is an SLI, I think, and for him, his Ne isn't really verbalized, it more just comes out in quirky bursts of inventiveness, like recently cutting a hole in our unused garage door so our dog can go in and out during the rain.

    I think being a hypochondriac might be related to Si devaluing, though I'm not sure. It seems to have something to do with not understanding what is going on with your body. Si users seem to know exactly when they are sick. There's also kind of a stereotype about SEEs being easily hypnotized by shiny objects. Duality in action

    While I do agree that Ni has a very subjectivist and solipsistic character to it, I do not agree that Ne is more tangible than it. Because Ne is the realm of objective possibilities, you'll often find that Ne types entertaining idealistic possibilities which still heavily improbable. Yes, Rousseau (EII), it is possible that if we relinquish all societal controls, everyone will come together in peace and harmony. But is it likely? In contrast, Se types are much more likely to "call a spade a spade". I also think this is why there is a stereotype of ILIs being atheists. The ones who are in touch with their Te tend to mercilessly cull all but the most probable (or pragmatic) hypotheses.

    Your sig has a quote from Bioshock, a game about exploring a hellhole full of tweaker junkies and human atrocities. It's also a sort of proposed prediction of the end point of unfettered capitalism (It's favorite talking point of most ILIs, like Marx, and Kaczynski). In contrast, when Deltas talk about the "evils" of capitalism, it is often done with a sort of retrogressive pastoralism in their heads. If Bioshock is not Se/Ni, I don't really know what is.

    Also, I like the thing about Spain being an Alpha country. I've seen pictures of Barcelona, it looks like SEI puke haha.
    Last edited by Whoobie77; 06-21-2014 at 10:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Ni is the photo negative of the will, and is therefore about trying to predict actions before they happen. I think once you figure out if your orientation is towards the future or the past, you'll have your answer. (With your predispositions towards religion, I have my suspicions.)

    An inability to muster up the will to do something sounds more Ni than Si, too.
    Excellent definition (bolded part). I am inclined towards the future (I'm a transhumanist, so you can imagine), although I feel a bit "damned" because of a past I have not been able to choose.

    I think the reason why you mistook yourself for ILE might be related to the fact that socionics is a system built around the worldview of an ILE. A guy called the Ex-Socionist once posited that ILE is the integral type of socionics. Like Schopenhauer's idea that outside ideas make an imposition of a consciousness, to be in the world of socionics (or any alien system of thought, for that matter) you have to encumber yourself with a different set of cognitions. When we do socionics, we all become more ILE. I had a similar problem. When I first found socionics, I was certain I was the spitting image of ILI. As I got more entrenched in the system, I started to mistake myself for ILE. Now I'm back to ILI again.
    Interesting observation.

    ...Newton (ILI) once said, "I can calculate the motions of the heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people." Socionics has that so-called hidden knowledge. I think Delta STs are more likely to say "it is what it", taking a very literal, sensoric view of Te, and not penetrating the issue much further. My grandfather is an SLI, I think, and for him, his Ne isn't really verbalized, it more just comes out in quirky bursts of inventiveness, like recently cutting a hole in our unused garage door so our dog can go in and out during the rain.
    I take a quite introspective perspective about this issue. As I said in a former post, I am a bit obsessed about my own mental states, like if I feel once I can stabilize the appropiate one, once I can "calibrate" my mind, I will be able to solve many problems I have since... I have memory. I know this is a typical Ni ego behavior but I try to maintain an open perspective, just in case...

    I also verbalize Ne quite a lot, it's just it slips between my fingers, as I am not able to get profit from the opportunities I can conceive. Maybe I just lack too much will. That's the reason in another thread, where people were asked about which alternative type they would choose if they could, I picked LIE. They are, in certain way, a much more assertive version of myself, specially when dealing with real world stuff.

    I think being a hypochondriac might be related to Si devaluing, though I'm not sure. It seems to have something to do with not understanding what is going on with your body. Si users seem to know exactly when they are sick. There's also kind of a stereotype about SEEs being easily hypnotized by shiny objects. Duality in action
    LOL, didn't know about such SEE stereotype. Maybe unconscious SEE screaming from the inside.

    While I do agree that Ni has a very subjectivist and solipsistic character to it, I do not agree that Ne is more tangible than it. Because Ne is the realm of objective possibilities, you'll often find that Ne types entertaining idealistic possibilities which still heavily improbable. Yes, Rousseau (EII), it is possible that if we relinquish all societal controls, everyone will come together in peace and harmony. But is it likely? In contrast, Se types are much more likely to "call a spade a spade". I also think this is why there is a stereotype of ILIs being atheists. The ones who are in touch with their Te tend to mercilessly cull all but the most probable (or pragmatic) hypotheses.
    Maybe I did not expressed it accurately. With more tangible I didn't mean less deep, more concrete, as if Ni were more intuition than Ne is. Just that Ne has a external focus, and usually Ne egos, compared with Ni alternatives, are able to express ideas in a more understandable way for the average person. More able to put things in a common context so to speak, because they care about being understood.

    This problem is not apparent in LIEs, but some IxIs, specially Ni subs, when they speak they seem to talk to themselves more than other people, as if they do not care if understood or not. Which is an absurd behavior, by the way.

    My atheistic views are not based in disproving god (a pointless excercise, after all), but something like agnosticism taken to the limit case, and choosing the most sensical behavior after this. I think it would fit well in your description.

    Your sig has a quote from Bioshock, a game about exploring a hellhole full of tweaker junkies and human atrocities. It's also a sort of proposed prediction of the end point of unfettered capitalism (It's favorite talking point of most ILIs, like Marx, and Kaczynski). In contrast, when Deltas talk about the "evils" of capitalism, it is often done with a sort of retrogressive pastoralism in their heads. If Bioshock is not Se/Ni, I don't really know what is.
    Not my favourite game (it would be Deus Ex, the first one), but I quite enjoyed Bioshock. I put this avatar and title because a recent conversation in the thread "socialism vs anarchy".

    Andrew Ryan words are an excellent living motto for anyone. Even if his "utopia" failed, he went as far as he could impulsed by it. A pro-ego attitude.

    Also, I like the thing about Spain being an Alpha country. I've seen pictures of Barcelona, it looks like SEI puke haha.
    Barcelona is nothing. Come to the South, where I live (Seville), and you will see ESEland.

    ---

    Until now I was feeling inclined to pick SLI over ILI, but after your comments I feel inclined towards ILI again... Maybe as you, too much interaction with opposite quadra has made me a bit atypical gamma NT, hence my troubles for choosing the closest archetype to myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    This problem is not apparent in LIEs, but some IxIs, specially Ni subs, when they speak they seem to talk to themselves more than other people, as if they do not care if understood or not. Which is an absurd behavior, by the way.
    If the MBTI statistics are to be believed (http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/) (I think the typings for the socionics ones were skewered by the Russian-socialist-equitarian mindset they originated from, to sell a false dream that "there's a dual for everyone!") Ni types make up less than 10% of the population, and Si/Ne types dwarf Se/Ni types. I think a lot of Ni "cranks" or "seers" just get frustrated because a lot of people have Ni in their unconscious and don't really understand what they are saying. So they give up until some sexy Se type starts treating them like a court magician or something lol. I admit (ashamedly), I've probably done the "arguing with myself in front of other people" thing before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    If the MBTI statistics are to be believed (http://www.statisticbrain.com/myers-briggs-statistics/) (I think the typings for the socionics ones were skewered by the Russian-socialist-equitarian mindset they originated from, to sell a false dream that "there's a dual for everyone!") Ni types make up less than 10% of the population, and Si/Ne types dwarf Se/Ni types. I think a lot of Ni "cranks" or "seers" just get frustrated because a lot of people have Ni in their unconscious and don't really understand what they are saying. So they give up until some sexy Se type starts treating them like a court magician or something lol. I admit (ashamedly), I've probably done the "arguing with myself in front of other people" thing before.

    I also do not believe in russian statistics.

    They argue that population is evenly distributed between types because if not, some of them would extinguish. This is fucking ridiculous and whoever said this has little knowledge about genetics. If so, every human characteristic which has an alternative genetic expression should also be evenly distributed. Obviously, this is not the case. And if such characteristic is determinant in human evolution (I insist, if), the expression of its variants will not prevail in equal proportion, but in the proportion required for the proper working of the humankind as a whole.

    For example, the P/J proportion should be higher in former evolutive periods, when all societies were primitives. Its is required to take advantage of any opportunity as soon as it manifests due to harsh living conditions. But as soon as societies developed, they gained complexity and size. It would be required a higher proportion of Js (in comparison) because if not, there would be too much internal chaos and such societies would be unstable. The rising of agriculture in Neolithic has probably favored Js (just an observation, not that it is a bad thing).

    Beyond this, it's not like you can only marry with your dual... and I do not think that types are purely genetically originated. Some multifactorial genetic contribution, mixed with developing conditions inside the womb.

    About the "arguing with myself", I'm sure everyone has occasionally done it, because of the reasons you've pointed among other things. The "problem" would be if you consistently do it, but only because in such case any conversation is pointless...

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    you VI like this guy i used to hook up with. i typed him LSI. i don't know if you're LSI, SLI or LSE but i feel like one of those three would be correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    you VI like this guy i used to hook up with. i typed him LSI. i don't know if you're LSI, SLI or LSE but i feel like one of those three would be correct.
    What about the last picture, recently added to the bottom of the OP?

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    Can you link the other type threads. you've done?
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Can you link the other type threads. you've done?
    Here you have.

    That thread belongs to my former participacion; I retired and deleted my username which appears as "ssss". I guess you're looking for my answers to the set of questions and they're there in the OP. But I think the new approach here is better, comparing with a good and effective pattern (my fiend, LII) instead discussing if this or that POV is specific from this or that type.

    I do not recommend to you looking there beyond the OP. You can be influenced by opinions from people whose understanding of me could have changed over time, I was a new member then. My understanding of the topic has also changed/improved, so some points could be not valid today. I recommend just to focus in my self-description, quoted, and the questions, but not in any other analysis or info.

    I thought a fresh new start would be better for not biasing people here and because of this I haven't linked the formed thread in the OP.
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 06-30-2014 at 10:20 AM.

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    You are Te creative from much of what you say. In your photos you VI Si>Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Here you have.

    That thread belongs to my former participacion; I retired and deleted my username which appears as "ssss". I guess you're looking for my answers to the set of questions and they're there in the OP. But I think the new approach here is better, comparing with a good and effective pattern (my fiend, LII) instead discussing if this or that POV is specific from this or that type.

    I do not recommend to you looking there beyond the OP. You can be influenced by opinions from people whose understanding of me could have changed over time, I was a new member then. My understanding of the topic has also changed/improved, so some points could be not valid today. I recommend just to focus in my self-description, quoted, and the questions, but not in any other analysis or info.

    I thought a fresh new start would be better for not biasing people here and because of this I haven't linked the formed thread in the OP.
    *chuckles* Okie doke.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    You are Te creative from much of what you say. In your photos you VI Si>Ni.
    I concur about Te creative.

    I'm not sure how much reliable VI is. Certainly there are broad patterns which could be identified, but the margin or error is big. My father and me, when we were respectively teenagers, are almost clones. But we're at the antipodes of each other mentally-wise. At least he's also dynamic; most likely alpha SF.

    Looking inside of myself I cannot tell for sure. For eliminating the "Te specialization" bias I could take a look to my adolescence, as leading function is apparent sooner than creative. Still the result is non-conclusive. My childhood idol was MacGyver, which is a clear SLI character. But do we exclusively take identicals as references? I don't think so. Similarly, before my atheism became dominant, I have believed all kind of bullshit in a very Ni fashion, quite beyond a "tangible" abrahamic god. I was (and somehow still am) fascinated by hypnosis. Maybe if I talk with some clear-cut ILIs and a some clear cut SLIs, we could compare our lives and minds in those times, and I could see which one is closer to me.

    Coming back to the present, I recognize that I'm not the best guy optimizing time; my texts do not sound über-Ni, and are usually very long, which is more typical in sensors. But my goals and behavior are a bit alien for an Si dom, even if logical. I have always been quite a theorizer, here in the forum and also outside here. Evidently SLIs could be theorizers, good theorizers in fact, but will they focus so much in abstractions? How many SLIs are active here? Only a few. How many of them do consistently theorize?

    I'm talking only about what SLIs usually do, I'm not comparing intelligences or similar, just so nobody misunderstands me.

    If you take a look to my threads, you will see I tend to theorize a lot. Even if I do it in a Te fashion. Would E5 suffice for explaining such behavior? It could work, I guess, SLI+E5 would be something like an SLI with ILI goals, a sort of pseudointuitive, seen from the outside.

    Despite of this, there are some aspects that I can't reconciliate with SLI regardless how hard I could try. Leading function, even if "hidden", underdeveloped or whatever, constitutes the cornerstone, the fundamental core of the psyche. There has to be certain observable manifestations which are specific of it. I see in myself at least two of them that I haven't seen in any SLI (in a clear way) or I cannot explain by an alternative interpretation; Ni is required.

    The first one, psychological sensitivity towards symbols. It's not just liking abstract representations because they could be aesthetically pleasant, or because they condensate an idea I could agree or like. It's... something more. Sensitivity to certain kind of powerful symbols which produce a particular effect, like if something agitates inside myself. A sort of resonance in my subconscious. I try to avoid this concept as much as I can because it's prone to being overused, but now I cannot find a proper substitute. These symbols I'm talking about, are easily associated to Ni. Those symbols that contains a sort of wholeness that expands from the deepest part of the self, and cannot be explained without losing part of its essence. Best example, what I have already commented about hypnosis.

    The second one is certain obsession with my mental states. Si doms usually manifest desire for maintaining body homeostasis, in my particular case, it's about psychological homeostasis. When leading function is extensively attacked, the user lost its natural balance. Technically it's PoLR which could cause the worst damage to the psyche, but most often it's consciously ignored by the user. Only in extreme cases when there's no alternative, the vulnerability comes as it is. By the other hand, Role function is not so frequently ignored; it's disliked but it's more or less faced when required. It could be used during long time before mental exhaustion becomes manifest. Then, the user needs to retreat to leading function for recovering balance.

    So what do I do, when I feel unbalanced, when I need to recover my true self? Si-like things, or Ni-like things? Most usually, the second option. It's not excercise, or physical relax, or enjoying external beauty. It's an attempt for retreat to my own mind, trying to recover its stillness, its lost wholeness. A mental state in which everything makes sense, and all thoughts are connected. When I achieve such state... Unfortunately, this task is very difficult, and most ofter I do not success.

    Anyway, I cannot make a strong, final argument for Ni, or against it. Being Te creative seems more clear, so I will not argue if someone wants to see me as SLI or ILI (unless used argument is nonsensical, of course).
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 07-03-2014 at 11:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I concur about Te creative.

    I'm not sure how much reliable VI is. Certainly there are broad patterns which could be identified, but the margin or error is big. My father and me, when we were respectively teenagers, are almost clones. But we're at the antipodes of each other mentally-wise. At least he's also dynamic; most likely alpha SF.

    Looking inside of myself I cannot tell for sure. For eliminating the "Te specialization" bias I could take a look to my adolescence, as leading function is apparent sooner than creative. Still the result is non-conclusive. My childhood idol was MacGyver, which is a clear SLI character. But do we exclusively take identicals as references? I don't think so. Similarly, before my atheism became dominant, I have believed all kind of bullshit in a very Ni fashion, quite beyond a "tangible" abrahamic god. I was (and somehow still am) fascinated by hypnosis. Maybe if I talk with some clear-cut ILIs and a some clear cut SLIs, we could compare our lives and minds in those times, and I could see which one is closer to me.

    Coming back to the present, I recognize that I'm not the best guy optimizing time; my texts do not sound über-Ni, and are usually very long, which is more typical in sensors. But my goals and behavior are a bit alien for an Si dom, even if logical. I have always been quite a theorizer, here in the forum and also outside here. Evidently SLIs could be theorizers, good theorizers in fact, but will they focus so much in abstractions? How many SLIs are active here? Only a few. How many of them do consistently theorize?

    I'm talking only about what SLIs usually do, I'm not comparing intelligences or similar, just so nobody misunderstands me.

    If you take a look to my threads, you will see I tend to theorize a lot. Even if I do it in a Te fashion. Would E5 suffice for explaining such behavior? It could work, I guess, SLI+E5 would be something like an SLI with ILI goals, a sort of pseudointuitive, seen from the outside.

    Despite of this, there are some aspects that I can't reconciliate with SLI regardless how hard I could try. Leading function, even if "hidden", underdeveloped or whatever, constitutes the cornerstone, the fundamental core of the psyche. There has to be certain observable manifestations which are specific of it. I see in myself at least two of them that I haven't seen in any SLI (in a clear way) or I cannot explain by an alternative interpretation; Ni is required.

    The first one, psychological sensitivity towards symbols. It's not just liking abstract representations because they could be aesthetically pleasant, or because they condensate an idea I could agree or like. It's... something more. Sensitivity to certain kind of powerful symbols which produce a particular effect, like if something agitates inside myself. A sort of resonance in my subconscious. I try to avoid this concept as much as I can because it's prone to being overused, but now I cannot find a proper substitute. These symbols I'm talking about, are easily associated to Ni. Those symbols that contains a sort of wholeness that expands from the deepest part of the self, and cannot be explained without losing part of its essence. Best example, what I have already commented about hypnosis.

    The second one is certain obsession with my mental states. Si doms usually manifest desire for maintaining body homeostasis, in my particular case, it's about psychological homeostasis. When leading function is extensively attacked, the user lost its natural balance. Technically it's PoLR which could cause the worst damage to the psyche, but most often it's consciously ignored by the user. Only in extreme cases when there's no alternative, the vulnerability comes as it is. By the other hand, Role function is not so frequently ignored; it's disliked but it's more or less faced when required. It could be used during long time before mental exhaustion becomes manifest. Then, the user needs to retreat to leading function for recovering balance.

    So what do I do, when I feel unbalanced, when I need to recover my true self? Si-like things, or Ni-like things? Most usually, the second option. It's not excercise, or physical relax, or enjoying external beauty. It's an attempt for retreat to my own mind, trying to recover its stillness, its lost wholeness. A mental state in which everything makes sense, and all thoughts are connected. When I achieve such state... Unfortunately, this task is very difficult, and most ofter I do not success.

    Anyway, I cannot make a strong, final argument for Ni, or against it. Being Te creative seems more clear, so I will not argue if someone wants to see me as SLI or ILI (unless used argument is nonsensical, of course).
    As an Ni dominant, myself, I would say that retreating into the mind to restore calm is very much indicative of Ni. I would venture that an Si dom would prefer to retreat to a positive sensory experience.

    I'm not the best at optimising time. I have to put a lot of thought and effort into doing this. The nature of Ni is more to do with the flow of time rather than hour-to-hour, minute-to-minute, time efficiency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    As an Ni dominant, myself, I would say that retreating into the mind to restore calm is very much indicative of Ni. I would venture that an Si dom would prefer to retreat to a positive sensory experience.

    I'm not the best at optimising time. I have to put a lot of thought and effort into doing this. The nature of Ni is more to do with the flow of time rather than hour-to-hour, minute-to-minute, time efficiency.
    Makes sense. Ni-creatives are quite good about optimizing time without effort, but maybe it has more to do with the nature of function as creative (a tool you use, non-conservative) versus function as leading (true core of the self, conservative). Or it could be related to Ip "I go with the flow" versus Ej "I rule the flow" attitude.

    Thanks for your contribution. By the way, how much do you relate to symbol sensitivity and mental state descriptions I've commented?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    Makes sense. Ni-creatives are quite good about optimizing time without effort, but maybe it has more to do with the nature of function as creative (a tool you use, non-conservative) versus function as leading (true core of the self, conservative). Or it could be related to Ip "I go with the flow" versus Ej "I rule the flow" attitude.

    Thanks for your contribution. By the way, how much do you relate to symbol sensitivity and mental state descriptions I've commented?
    I definitely relate to what you wrote about symbols. I am unconsciously attracted to anything symbolic.

    I think with Ni dominants, there is a kind of sensitivity to the psyche -- a vulnerability to outside forces. All IP types have a similar susceptibility, but as you say, with the Si dominants, it is physical rather than mental.

    Also, funny thing this... but I used to think MacGyver existed only on the Simpsons!

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    I'm a bit conflicted on how to codify your interactions with others. You describe yourself as inflexible, judgmental, and intense among other things but you seem fairly sociable and friendly thus far. I don't really see the harshness you describe in your self representation.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    I'm a bit conflicted on how to codify your interactions with others. You describe yourself as inflexible, judgmental, and intense among other things but you seem fairly sociable and friendly thus far. I don't really see the harshness you describe in your self representation.
    Thanks for your positive appreciation.

    I guess we could have compatible personalities if you see me in such way. But the truth is I can be really polemicist when I'm in a heated discussion and I know many people dislike this aspect of myself (if not myself as a whole) both here and IRL.

    I have not said inflexible (neither I think I am), but I tend to state my opinion as it is, usually without too much consideration about being politically correct. If I have to be disliked because of this well, so be it. But I do not try to impose my POV; when I do this is usually because the other person is not debating in a neutral way.

    I'm not actively unpleasant as long as the other person isn't either, but I have little patience with those who see themselves as "right by default" (or other forms of bullshit, like I see things you cannot because X function) and interact with me in such way. Then I'll try to smash them as hard as I can.

    With those who are more or less neutral, I usually have no problem.
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 07-13-2014 at 10:21 PM.

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    I think you might be either ILI or LSI. You don't sound as casual as the average ILI, which makes you sound a bit more Ti-ish. I don't know if you've read anything by Nassim Taleb but the way you write reads a lot like him. I oscillate between ILI and LSI for him, but just based on the content of his ideas I type him ILI.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm not too sure of Nassim's type at all. I think you might be the same type as him though. You decide.

    Last edited by Contra; 07-13-2014 at 08:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    I think you might be either ILI or LSI. You don't sound as casual as the average ILI, which makes you sound a bit more Ti-ish. I don't know if you've read anything by Nassim Taleb but the way you write reads a lot like him. I oscillate between ILI and LSI for him, but just based on the content of his ideas I type him ILI.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm not too sure of Nassim's type at all. I think you might be the same type as him though. You decide.

    Nassim Taleb is probably Alpha NT. (The Bed of Procrustes is almost like the opposite of LSI)
    Last edited by Amber; 07-14-2014 at 02:22 PM.

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    I've never read The Bed of Procrustres so I can't speak about that, but, in the Black Swan, he seems to me to have a certain scorn for Ne and the current circumstances permeating the areas that Alpha NTs have generally dominated. I haven't ruled out Alpha NT for him because he is pretty hard for me to get a read on, but he is unlike any Alpha I've met.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    I think you might be either ILI or LSI. You don't sound as casual as the average ILI, which makes you sound a bit more Ti-ish. I don't know if you've read anything by Nassim Taleb but the way you write reads a lot like him. I oscillate between ILI and LSI for him, but just based on the content of his ideas I type him ILI.

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I'm not too sure of Nassim's type at all. I think you might be the same type as him though. You decide.

    Didn't know about him before, therefore I cannot make a deep & accurate comparison. But watching his video and reading about his ideas, it seems I share a similar POV and approach to some problems.

    He strongly opposes Plato's theoretical method. I've seen this philosopher typed as LII and IEI, but nothing outside merry quadras. Plato is quintessential Ti, so we can conclude with reasonable confidence that Taleb does not value this function. His ideas and style are consistent with this, adopting a pragmatical approach of accepting limitations in knowledge, instead using "fabricated solutions". Combined with his natural acceptance of "randomness of events", this is a heavy Te mindset imo.

    About his style of speaking, the lack of Fe seems clear. His speech sounds like typical serious. But he speaks quickly (even if the volume is low) and he gesticulates a lot, with his hands and head. He does not seem quiet or passive in that video. Extroversion isn't strong, but imo it could fit better than introversion. Maybe a sort of "subdued" LIE? (Enneagram not belonging to the assertive tryad, for example). Being LIE would also be consistent with strongly disliking Plato's ideas (extinguishment/supervision), even more than ILI, and would put the main focus in Te, not Ni.

    I personally do not think Taleb is LSI (Ti leading, Ne PoLR). Neither ILE (Fe-HA, Ti ego -> natural approach, even if Te is also strong).

    I'm not sure that I share the same sociotype, but assuming cetain compatibility seems correct.
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 07-14-2014 at 02:19 PM.

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    Ok, that sounds right actually. When I was reading some of his stuff a few years back, I remember highly considering LIE for him but I had since forgotten that was ever something I had thought of.

    EDIT: Also, just for the record, I just read this thread, and I identify a lot with what you have said.
    Last edited by Contra; 07-14-2014 at 06:04 PM.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I think Taleb is IEE, he's a aristocratic Fi valuer. He could be a LSE too but a extrovert none-the-less. Althrough he says somet stuff that's somewhat ok, he fudges way too many thing to promote his agenda. He reminds me a lot of Malcolm Gladwell in the way he does things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contra View Post
    EDIT: Also, just for the record, I just read this thread, and I identify a lot with what you have said.
    I'm curious, which points/aspects specially?

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