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Thread: Male ESI's and Female LIE's (ISFj and ENTj)

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    Default Male ESI's and Female LIE's (ISFj and ENTj)

    Any observations on the two types individually? Or how the dynamic between them supposedly plays out?

    I thought it'd be interesting since most Gamma stereotypes seem to assume that ESI's are female and LIE's are male.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    I've yet to ever met a LIE female. I want to.

    (Or maybe I'm oblivious and just suck at typing. This is a real possibility).

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    I don't know, the male ones are rare enough. Could always ask @Deestructor

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    if you're familiar with Boy Meets World, basically how Corey (ESI) and Topanga (LIE) act.

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    I know one couple, they're my gf's parents. I guess compared to the male LIEs I know, the females seem to be more chatty and extraverted and a bit less adventurous. The male ESIs are often the strong silent type, even somewhat grumbling.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I've yet to ever met a LIE female. I want to.

    (Or maybe I'm oblivious and just suck at typing. This is a real possibility).
    Wow. Straight to the heart. WHY DONT YOU JUST IGNORE THIS POST AND PRESIDENT I NEVER EXISTED!!! *sobs*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deestructor View Post
    Wow. Straight to the heart. WHY DONT YOU JUST IGNORE THIS POST AND PRESIDENT I NEVER EXISTED!!! *sobs*
    But... You don't count cuz You're neverrrr around tc anymore, lady.


    President

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know one couple, they're my gf's parents. I guess compared to the male LIEs I know, the females seem to be more chatty and extraverted and a bit less adventurous. The male ESIs are often the strong silent type, even somewhat grumbling.
    haha this is interesting to me. My sister is an LIE and you pretty much just described her. She also has a (well deserved) reputation of losing or forgetting everything and she isn't the most disciplined person either though I doubt thats type related. I haven't been able to type her boyfriend (who she plans to marry), but it sounds like you just described him too. He is a quiet, fairly rude guy who grumbles a lot. Apparently he is a pretty talented salesman and has a softer side, which he is insecure about. But no one would've guessed it because in college he was an arrogant, goofy frat guy, and it's safe to say that everyone in my family hates him.

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    I'm not sure if those women are LIE...but couldn't immediately figure it out, so why not? They all seem slightly intimidating/likable.

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    is gwendoline christine LIE?


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    female typed as LIE by Russian typists:
     

    if she's indeed LIE then I've just realised that apart from one girl I knew for years, I also had a LIE female friend in one of the previous jobs - she was awesome great sense of humour and amazing at her work (and looked like a brunette version of the girl in the above vid and had same facial expressions)

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    LIE women are a myth.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    what about EMMA ROBERTS







    omfggg, sigh. LIE.

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    I've known one couple like this. It's an interesting dynamic because although the male ESI and female LIE more or less fit into traditional gender roles, the LIE is definitely the ambitious one career wise and it seems like it can get problematic if the ESI doesn't allow her to "wear the pants" in this respect.

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    I know an ESI male, he's quite pathetic and his life is a mess. Those feels stop him from getting anything done and he is extremely hard on himself to the point where i recommend medication. He is quite reserved about his problems and avoids talking about them. Has attempted suicide before and is very unhealthy. Would be cool to meet a healthy male ESI, if they even come in that flavor. I think ESI is probably one of the coolest types to relax with, only had the opportunity to hang with female ESIs, guessing the males would have more in common and be more bro.

    Female LIE is a lot more pleasant than the male variant and seems to always go out her way to help people. This one is about 50 years old and really successful, I am dating her ESI sister(ESI hates her sister but probably hates everyone on a small scale). Male LIE seems to be a lot more reserved in small talk and comes off a bit more lifeless and a lot more pushy.

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    "Interview. Soloviev (ESI) - an honest and hard. socionics"



    Can't understand a word. He seems Se-dom, Fi-creative, IJ. Mostly in the understated, yet warm expressions that convey no nonsense, yet no harshness either.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    One liners to attract LIE ladiez.

    'I have some business to take care of at home, want to come tell me how I should do it?'

    'The only thing you are annexing is my heart.'

    'You can be my CEO any day.'

    'I must be at the bottom of your organisation chart, because I can't see beyond your legs you're so close to heaven.'

    'Can you help me blitzkrieg these drinks and recommend a more productive activity?'

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    One liners to attract LIE ladiez.

    'I have some business to take care of at home, want to come tell me how I should do it?'

    'The only thing you are annexing is my heart.'

    'You can be my CEO any day.'

    'I must be at the bottom of your organisation chart, because I can't see beyond your legs you're so close to heaven.'

    'Can you help me blitzkrieg these drinks and recommend a more productive activity?'
    Shouldn´t ESI behave like ´the tougher´mofo of the two ...? (Se subtypes at least) I don´t know much about this duality with such gender twist, but a few ESI guys I´ve known were not exactly shy and submissive and acted like textbook aggressors (with extra slyness and awareness of ´inner sentiments´).

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Shouldn´t ESI behave like ´the tougher´mofo of the two ...? (Se subtypes at least) I don´t know much about this duality with such gender twist, but a few ESI guys I´ve known were not exactly shy and submissive and acted like textbook aggressors (with extra slyness and awareness of ´inner sentiments´).
    Yeah that's my impression too.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Shouldn´t ESI behave like ´the tougher´mofo of the two ...? (Se subtypes at least) I don´t know much about this duality with such gender twist, but a few ESI guys I´ve known were not exactly shy and submissive and acted like textbook aggressors (with extra slyness and awareness of ´inner sentiments´).
    I'd say that overall ESI guys are masculine and LIE women are feminine, the gender twist is more directly related to career ambition and the desire to make money. For example, the ESI/LIE couple I knew broke up because the LIE wanted him to uproot and follow her to a major city where she had gotten a job. Although they would have had more money coming in overall, for the ESI this would have meant leaving his job and giving up, or at least accepting a setback, in his own career ambitions and he felt it was too soon to for him to decide that he was ready to make that sacrifice for her. Paradoxically, if he were clearly the more feminine of the two overall, this probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowbox View Post
    I'd say that overall ESI guys are masculine and LIE women are feminine, the gender twist is more directly related to career ambition and the desire to make money. For example, the ESI/LIE couple I knew broke up because the LIE wanted him to uproot and follow her to a major city where she had gotten a job. Although they would have had more money coming in overall, for the ESI this would have meant leaving his job and giving up, or at least accepting a setback, in his own career ambitions and he felt it was too soon to for him to decide that he was ready to make that sacrifice for her. Paradoxically, if he were clearly the more feminine of the two overall, this probably wouldn't have been as much of an issue.
    That happens to any male female couple in 2014 all the time, not related to ESI LIE.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    That happens to any male female couple in 2014 all the time, not related to ESI LIE.
    This happens to many couples in 2014 and, to the extent that it is Socionics related, my contention is that it's a dilemma that is more common for male ESI/Female LIE couples than for many other type parings. It's one of the rarer couplings gender-wise, so there may be aspects of my anecdotal observations that are true and others that are false or at least only half true, but I think it's best to just put everything out there and then separate the wheat from the chaff as more information is accumulated.

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    My bf is ESI and he's rather less aggressive than female ESIs I know. Might be the subtype though. I'm not that good in describing relationships you know xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowbox View Post
    This happens to many couples in 2014 and, to the extent that it is Socionics related, my contention is that it's a dilemma that is more common for male ESI/Female LIE couples than for many other type parings
    I personally can´t see why it should, but okay, good.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    what about EMMA ROBERTS







    omfggg, sigh. LIE.
    I do not know about her personality (haven't watched the video), but looking at those pictures she does not look like a logical type. Her smile, specially in the first picture, seems totally Fi-creative.

    Anyway she's too cute for caring about this...

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    Mr. Bates and Anna from Downton Abbey are male ESI and female LIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I do not know about her personality (haven't watched the video), but looking at those pictures she does not look like a logical type. Her smile, specially in the first picture, seems totally Fi-creative.

    Anyway she's too cute for caring about this...
    Joanne Woodward and Paul Newman.

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    Made an account to comment
    Pretty sure I'm Te-ENTJ, and in my last relationship I'm also pretty sure he was Fi-ISFJ.

    When we first met, true to duality descriptions, I barely noticed him I was at a social dance event, and after having a dance with him, he mentioned something about becoming friends on facebook. Some guys will just say this, and it probably doesn't go anywhere, so I kind of put it out of mind. I thought that I'd probably never see him again, or maybe occasionally at the dances there in the future. He struck me as a pretty normal guy but certainly not a guy that enjoyed my company. I think later on, that that was probably more because of the environment than because of me.

    When he fb-friended me and invited me to a different dance, we went out for dinner after that, and quickly started dating, sort of. Never put a definition on it, though I think I had wanted to. Honestly, at the time, I was pretty inexperienced about those things and a part of the reason I was open to the relationship was because I wanted to gain that experience. Quickly, when we were alone, I started to confide in him, and we became intimate. There were some moments together that we had that I still really value.. But it was short and ended up not working out. Recently, while I was in school we got together, but then separated again. He wanted to move out of the country to pursue his passion/career, and he didn't want me to go with him.

    I think I'd agree somewhat about the strong-silent characterization.

    I'd also add that I definitely experienced the conflict stages that are supposed to happen for beta/gamma dualities. But dualization (if that's what it was) was really great, and something I think I shouldn't have taken for granted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I've yet to ever met a LIE female. I want to.

    (Or maybe I'm oblivious and just suck at typing. This is a real possibility).
    So am I. Nevermind.

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    I think I knew a Te-LIE E7 Sx/So, and I didn't know much about her beyond her being really quick with information and constantly asking me if I hated her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead View Post
    constantly asking me if I hated her.
    T-T

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    One liners to attract LIE ladiez.

    'I have some business to take care of at home, want to come tell me how I should do it?'

    'The only thing you are annexing is my heart.'

    ,
    'You can be my CEO any day.'

    'I must be at the bottom of your organisation chart, because I can't see beyond your legs you're so close to heaven.'

    'Can you help me blitzkrieg these drinks and recommend a more productive activity?'
    I'm going to use this on men. thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    is gwendoline christine LIE?

    Yes I can see Gwen as an LIE.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I do not know about her personality (haven't watched the video), but looking at those pictures she does not look like a logical type. Her smile, specially in the first picture, seems totally Fi-creative.

    Anyway she's too cute for caring about this...

    You must have not met the out going, entrepreneurial energetic female LIE type before.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    is gwendoline christine LIE?

    all through GOT she was Se base. Se-SEE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    all through GOT she was Se base. Se-SEE?
    @strrrng had some good ideas about Brianne.
    In GOT I see her as a delta ST, most likely an ESTj. Her inner need for personal honour, her duty to others seems to be a sort of crutch, a kind of all she has left in the world. This may have stemmed from being a person who is physically so different from others. Her character in season five explains a story from her youth in which she is courted by many men who are actually sharing a joke together on her. She is deeply hurt by that, understandable, yet doubly so because discerning romantic connections with others is such a blind spot for her. I see her brand of Fi as more delta: idealized, understated, a working type of Fi that builds over time... "I would love to turn Westeros into a kind of Eden, where there is harmony for all".(Gwenn) This can be seen with Podrick and her, and usually with any other character Brianne comes across. There is so much Fi-suggestive in this woman, she practically oozes introverted feeling.... If Brianne was a gamma, the only one I could see her realistically being is a gamma rational, so ESI.

    She is also so physically and pragmatically comfortable with the real world. Her relationship with Podrick demonstrates her adeptness with Te type information, teaching him how to live "in the wilds". I think her character leans heavily on the demonstrative Se, again because her brute strength and endurance, along with her need for duty and honour, are all she has going for her. I see Brianne as a sort of resigned with her fate LSE.
    Last edited by wacey; 04-20-2015 at 05:32 AM.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    She seems like fun.

    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Gwendoline Christie does look LIE to me..

    Hani Furstenberg also seems LIE to me :)
    Especially through her acting in the movie The Loneliest Planet. Which I posted elsewhere too hm.

    Here's an interview that includes her in it.
    I can't figure how to get it to start at the right point, so I'll just say the start time comes around 0:42.

    Last edited by may; 04-22-2015 at 11:27 AM.

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    I've got male ESI. We've known each other for a long time as he was my trainer when I started MA in primary school. I found him after several years on the internet and I was really the initiating side. But I guess it was him who thought about something more once he judged me as 'normal'. Also, he was ending his previous relationship then (which I didn't know at that time) and he didn't really want to meet with me in person. I didn't understand what's going on (especially that it was going to be only a friendly meeting for me). I suspected something like that gf maybe but I was at a loss. And he could somehow keep me talking to him. Non-verbal assurance he wants to talk with me or something. It was like I was the active side but it was him who took care of making the relationship closer and closer, so I could take the initiative a step further.

    I think he's more withdrawn emotionally in comparison to female ESI. He can be harsh, he can shout, he can fight for what he believes is right or his "territory" but just isn't so aggressive in attitude if you know what I mean. Maybe he's just Fi-subtype. What might be different also, he doesn't try to keep me close all the time. We can spend together a lot of time but we can do many things alone and it's perfectly fine.

    For me it's hard to do all the things connected to the relationship. I love spending time with him but I need to work and to do many things at once. I feel an inside pressure if I don't so part of me doesn't really want to meet up. But we do. And I don't find it to be a waste. I guess this is the ESI's work.

    Not sure if I'm more fi-oriented than other LIEs as the 5th function goes like crazy. He buys me clothes, helps me to chose them, goes with me to buy schoes, etc. He tries to limit my activities to those money-able And I really like that ethical stability.

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