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Thread: "personal space" function?

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    Default "personal space" function?

    which function is responsible for a sense of personal space? is it Se ? Te?

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    I'm not that good at protecting my personal space. Perhaps it was just influenced by my parents, who never really cared about not introducing themselves in my personal space or messing around with my personal belongings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'm not that good at protecting my personal space. Perhaps it was just influenced by my parents, who never really cared about not introducing themselves in my personal space or messing around with my personal belongings.
    Sounds fucking rude.

    I hate people invading my personal space. Sometimes more than other times. I hate it if people don't even delay, Makes me want to kill them

    Usually people who aren't good at respecting personal space have drug problems, mental deficiencies, intrusive in general etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    Usually people who aren't good at respecting personal space have drug problems, mental deficiencies, intrusive in general etc.
    ahaha that's a bit extreme as an inference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ahaha that's a bit extreme as an inference.
    Probably. But at the least they're going to be thought as inferior/worthless/disreputable etc.

    I mean it's disrespectful. And it doesn't come off as the person as having any integrity if they can't even respect personal space.

    I suppose personal space must be important to me. I'm a bit on/off personal space wise I suppose. I don't like people touching me, touching my things etc. at first. And people are seen as a liability until they're proven reasonably competent/able/respectful etc.. then I'm not really touchy.

    It's just if people try to shortcut/sneak/deceive etc.

    Hmm.. let's see, like if a visitor in my house was to grab a beer out of the fridge, without asking, that'd be wrong, but if i said to help themselves to a beer out of the fridge than that'd be fine. If I let them make a coffee, and they moved the coffee afterwards that'd be wrong, but easily be fixed by putting it back where it was. But normally I'd rather make a coffee for someone than have them help themselves.

    If someone touches me out of the blue then that's wrong, but if I touch them and they touch me in response then that's ok.

    Hmm after googling personal space, I suppose I'm combining personal space and one's domain.

    But even on just personal space, I used to hate it when people would stand too close to me, at times, and push them away physically.
    Last edited by Satan; 06-02-2014 at 08:04 AM.

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    This isn't something that I've ever given much thought to since people rarely violate my personal space. I'm generally aware of it, in a way, but it's not some melodramatic physical thing. I never lose sight of my possessions in public, for example, and I'm always aware of the possibility of someone stealing something while I'm out, accidentally stepping on my bag, something of mine tipping over into someone else's space, etc. I can be kind of stingy/vigilant about that, even in a relatively 'light' setting that doesn't superficially warrant that level of suspicion.
    Last edited by suedehead; 06-02-2014 at 11:15 AM.

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    Not sure what the OP is asking specifically, which possible means there is a greater scope for interesting answers.

    I would think that introverts in general are more obsessed with their "personal space"...a specific personal space or a general unwillingness to be approached during their own personal time.

    Perhaps some extroverts or people in generally are very defensive or competitive in regards their personal space - no matter where and when it is...perhaps out of some form of compulsion, perhaps to show they have things their own way. The constructivist / emotivist dichotomy touches on an element where certain types are emotionally anchored to certain places or things and I think this may be one aspect that dictates people's behaviour in regards when and if they share their personal space.
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    Ti/Te.

    Thinking is related to speaking, and we use both thoughts and words to distance ourselves from others. Everybody does this. Because we just don't want to be fucked all the time or have everybody else's emotions invading us and influencing all our decisions, that would be hell. And ergo, a Te-ego person probably perhaps does this a little too well, making them appear sadistic, aloof, uncaring, str8 man business-y, etc.

    Contrast we let people in via the emo faggy functions like Fi/Ni/Fe etc. Sense of self becomes more malleable and I becomes We.

    I've also noticed something about intj/esfj couples, the esfj helps the intj be more outwardly affectionate without feeling like they're going to be fucked over by it.

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    The most personal space - neurotic person i've met was ESI
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    last friday the maintenance guy at work came into my cubicle and made conversation by scanning the surroundings and pointing at all my stuff and asking about it. it made me really uncomfortable. if he had put his arm around me or something i could have moved or pushed him away but this was a different kind of invasion that would take more social suaveness to deal with appropriately and i didn't know how. when strangers or people i don't really like touch my body, i find it mildly irritating but it doesn't bother me as much as what feels like psychological intrusion.

    in relationships with people i'm actually close to and like, i feel annoyed and rejected if there are too many limits on personal space. i like being able to hug my friends or ruffle my bf's hair and not have it be a big deal. and i accept a lot of intrusion as long as i have freedom of movement and i'm not being squished/held down too much.

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    I'm very aware of my personal space, I'm protective of it especially if I'm in a bad mood, but I also kind of see it as a pretty important social tool, so people who are oblivious to it baffle me. People who walk right behind you when there is no need to do so are the worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    which function is responsible for a sense of personal space? is it Se ? Te?
    I believe it's Se. I read an old post on the forums about this. I'll try to find it and quote it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Personal space according to the theory is more actively defended by sensors, Se & Si. That's if you're talking about actual physical space.

    Personal space intuitively, or a time when you can be by yourself, away from others, is a bit of a biological requirement and not type related. Everyone needs some downtime to develop themselves, imo, even if it's for a short amount of time.
    I agree, everyone needs some downtime, but in this case I was referring strictly to physical space. Basically the region around yourself that you claim as "your's", that you physically manipulate when with others (by moving closer or further away, or moving them closer/further away). I brought up this question because Reinin defines Te as the function responsible for territory:

    - Objective logic. Logic of the objective world - objective circumstances, facts. Example: the day began and it started raining. Systems, statistics. Event queue. Example: “I am late for work because the bridge collapsed". Laws, political policies of the government, stamps in the passport, traffic laws, prices, private summerhouse property, my territory, and design drawing of a unit. Thinking objectively people usually ask: “I want to know the reality of the matter.”

    And it does seem like Te egos pay close attention to the boundaries between "their space" and others', and how things are organized within that space, what rights they have within it, etc.

    It seems like Te defines your sense of space, and Se is used to defend that space.
    Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 06-03-2014 at 01:01 AM.

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    For me it depends on the other person.

    My Dr rubbed my leg and foot randomly throughout conversation today (she was female and it wasn't in a sexual way).
    I didn't mind it.

    Actually it kind of put me at ease.

    Now if a random patient at work did this to me-- eh..... I'd probably pull back pretty quickly and want to wash my leg. (b/c they probably have poop on their hands).


    but ya, I'm bit territorial with people who are way too close to my face, esp if they have a cold and I don't have time to get sick.

    and esp with my purse.


    I actually like friendly quick rubs on the back from coworkers tho...even if I don't like them.. if they rub my back even for a second...for that second: I'm at peace with them.

    I'm awkward with hugs so usually I avoid initiating them (but I like them with people I like).

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    Quote Originally Posted by truck View Post
    Ti/Te.

    Thinking is related to speaking, and we use both thoughts and words to distance ourselves from others. Everybody does this. Because we just don't want to be fucked all the time or have everybody else's emotions invading us and influencing all our decisions, that would be hell. And ergo, a Te-ego person probably perhaps does this a little too well, making them appear sadistic, aloof, uncaring, str8 man business-y, etc.

    Contrast we let people in via the emo faggy functions like Fi/Ni/Fe etc. Sense of self becomes more malleable and I becomes We.

    I've also noticed something about intj/esfj couples, the esfj helps the intj be more outwardly affectionate without feeling like they're going to be fucked over by it.
    Yes, I could see Te ego being good at defending their personal space. They can just rationally state, "You're invading my space so kindly leave me alone." While an Fi ego might constantly try to enter someone's personal space because they understand feelings and want to be there for the ones they love etc. But they would need a Te ego to tell them when it's "too much"

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    physical space- i hate it actually when people sit too close to me, etc, in order to make a physical move when i haven't given any sign of an "ok"

    i guess i'm not sure how you would do it otherwise though lol.

    psychological space- i defend this usually by not letting people into my physical space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    physical space- i hate it actually when people sit too close to me, etc, in order to make a physical move when i haven't given any sign of an "ok"

    i guess i'm not sure how you would do it otherwise though lol.

    psychological space- i defend this usually by not letting people into my physical space.
    I think in order to be able to get into one's physical space, one needs to be in the other's psychological space first.

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    i just lie to get people off my back
    Capitalism is the belief that the rich won't work hard when they don't earn enough money, and that the poor won't work hard when they earn too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    I think in order to be able to get into one's physical space, one needs to be in the other's psychological space first.
    I don't think it's true for me. Sometimes my physical space feels like it *is* my psychological space- I can track the latter by assessing the former.

    But I definitely agree that it can feel different for everyone!

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    I find that I am uncomfortable with too much physical closeness in Europe and North America. I don't like it when people stand too close to me or when I am stuck in a crowded space, etc. But I realized recently that when I am in a socio-cultural setting where people are generally less protective of their space, I mind it much less. I squeeze through crowded markets or stores or sit in crowded public transport with no problem or discomfort. I wonder if maybe I am subconsciously not worried about my space being invaded, but me invading other people's space...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    personal space - neurotic
    How so?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    ESI
    How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I find that I am uncomfortable with too much physical closeness in Europe and North America. I don't like it when people stand too close to me or when I am stuck in a crowded space, etc. But I realized recently that when I am in a socio-cultural setting where people are generally less protective of their space, I mind it much less. I squeeze through crowded markets or stores or sit in crowded public transport with no problem or discomfort. I wonder if maybe I am subconsciously not worried about my space being invaded, but me invading other people's space...
    Well, yeah, I notice I mind a lot less when I have little personal space in public transport in Italy as compared to Germany. It just seems to me that everyone is overall less annoyed and this indirectly rubs on me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, yeah, I notice I mind a lot less when I have little personal space in public transport in Italy as compared to Germany. It just seems to me that everyone is overall less annoyed and this indirectly rubs on me.
    they don't even have the concept of personal space in Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    they don't even have the concept of personal space in Italy
    lol. in crowded cities it's a bit extreme, i agree.
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    To answer the OP: I usually associate the notion of 'personal space' with Ti (static representation, understanding, and imposition of objective distance). However this is largely normalized socially (via Fe) and thus it varies considerably from one culture to another. Se is also keenly aware of space/territory, but as an irrational IM it tends towards assessment and observation rather than towards regulation. Or the way I saw this in irrational Se types, with this awareness comes the enjoyment of transgressions and playing with personal boundaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    I agree, everyone needs some downtime, but in this case I was referring strictly to physical space. Basically the region around yourself that you claim as "your's", that you physically manipulate when with others (by moving closer or further away, or moving them closer/further away). I brought up this question because Reinin defines Te as the function responsible for territory:

    - Objective logic. Logic of the objective world - objective circumstances, facts. Example: the day began and it started raining. Systems, statistics. Event queue. Example: “I am late for work because the bridge collapsed". Laws, political policies of the government, stamps in the passport, traffic laws, prices, private summerhouse property, my territory, and design drawing of a unit. Thinking objectively people usually ask: “I want to know the reality of the matter.”

    And it does seem like Te egos pay close attention to the boundaries between "their space" and others', and how things are organized within that space, what rights they have within it, etc.

    It seems like Te defines your sense of space, and Se is used to defend that space.
    Te is about instrumentality, means, tools, ways. For it property and other rights are just tools in the toolbox with obvious disadvantage in loosing such. One can say that such freedoms, contracts, means, ways constitute a certain "space" of personal freedom, but it is too abstract and constructed of a space. Actual "sense of personal space" is of Se and Si. Se is more as sense of claim and territory. Si for sense of personal comfort zones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I don't think it's true for me. Sometimes my physical space feels like it *is* my psychological space- I can track the latter by assessing the former.

    But I definitely agree that it can feel different for everyone!
    Interesting. I never thought of it like that...I wonder if this has to do with personality types. I feel like if someone would hug me when I didn't know them I would run. Unless there was some kind of connection in the first place..Like they said something kind to me and I felt an attraction and I indicated my interest

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, yeah, I notice I mind a lot less when I have little personal space in public transport in Italy as compared to Germany. It just seems to me that everyone is overall less annoyed and this indirectly rubs on me.
    Germans love to be annoyed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    Interesting. I never thought of it like that...I wonder if this has to do with personality types. I feel like if someone would hug me when I didn't know them I would run. Unless there was some kind of connection in the first place..Like they said something kind to me and I felt an attraction and I indicated my interest
    I think I would too. But I don't think I would have felt invaded *until* they tried to hug me lol- which is physical. Maybe it's just a different interpretation of the same thing.
    Also, I think that I would feel pretty psychologically invaded in the example that lungs mentioned above. But first I would notice that that guy was lingering in my cubicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I think I would too. But I don't think I would have felt invaded *until* they tried to hug me lol- which is physical. Maybe it's just a different interpretation of the same thing.
    Also, I think that I would feel pretty psychologically invaded in the example that lungs mentioned above. But first I would notice that that guy was lingering in my cubicle.
    Yeah I would also feel psychologically invaded if a stranger hugged me. I think I get what your saying and that we're saying the same thing. By physically invading my space, a person can psychologically *invade* my space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Germans love to be annoyed...
    kim I didn't mean to click "constructive" i had thought I clicked becca's post above! lol

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