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Thread: Immanuel Wallerstein

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    xerx's Avatar
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    Default Immanuel Wallerstein

    I'm 100% sure he's an INFp, intellectual subtype.. any other ideas?


    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'm 100% sure he's an INFp, intellectual subtype.. any other ideas?
    what makes you sure of INFp? i'm not familiar with his work to suggest any types.

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    “We are living in the transition from our existing world-system, the capitalist world-economy, to another world-system or systems. We do not know whether this will be for the better or for the worse. We shall not know until we get there, which may not be for another 50 years now. We do know that the period of transition will be a very difficult one for all who live it. It will be difficult for the powerful; it will be difficult for ordinary people. It will be a period of conflicts and aggravated disorders and what many will see as the collapse of moral systems.”
    — Immanuel Wallerstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    “We are living in the transition from our existing world-system, the capitalist world-economy, to another world-system or systems. We do not know whether this will be for the better or for the worse. We shall not know until we get there, which may not be for another 50 years now. We do know that the period of transition will be a very difficult one for all who live it. It will be difficult for the powerful; it will be difficult for ordinary people. It will be a period of conflicts and aggravated disorders and what many will see as the collapse of moral systems.”
    — Immanuel Wallerstein
    is this true, guys? does wallerstein know his shit?

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    Yes, absolutely.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    is this true, guys? does wallerstein know his shit?
    as much as anyone trying to predict the future
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    is this true, guys? does wallerstein know his shit?
    Well, I think he's likely to be right. The systems are in a stage of life where they are going to have to change or die. This can lead to a new system (not necessarily better in any relatable way) or to disintergration and segregation.

    If you look at the circumstances right now they are very similar to those of both pre WW1 and WW2. I'm quite confident that we live in the second interbellum and will experience a grand war (completely different, but just as horrifying as the previous editions) within our lifetimes.

    Dancing on the vulcano -> a dutch saying about living on while ignoring the fact that the lifestyle is not sustainable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    The systems are in a stage of life where they are going to have to change or die.
    why do you say this?

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    @lungs
    Capitalism, and democracy, were designed or concieved to deal with "small scale" national topics. Democracy was never intended for use above city-state level as the representation level drops drastically with every new individual included. Capitalism, although it has expanded tremendously to allow for mondial issues, is based upon factory type economies (that is production is the base of value). Nowadays production is losing value due to technological advances. Simultaniously knowledge (the new filler for value) is dropping in value due to the ammount of educated people increasing. Both factors together means that we have a crisis of VALUE rather than one of "banking". The thing is, no-one, in politics and business knows what will bring value nowadays. That coupled with the disintergration of NationStates as a unifying identity creates tremendous uncertainty that needs to be resolved. People are not "producing/consuming" less persé, they're believing less in the system and are panicking. Systems only work as long as people believe in them and accept them. The current situation is just tremendously volitile.

    The resolve of the issues above could be done by creating new ways of determining value, the sharing economy is a good example. Also things like interest groups (like socionics) and identity groups (like..eh facebook?) will somewhat buffer the impact of the loss of identity that the disintergration of the nationsate creates.

    OTOH other people choose to go for nationalistic values despite the loss of identity (cries for disolving the EU for instance) or take race/religion as a way to "go back to better times" (that is war against others..).
    The systems where created to bind together and give meaning to the lives of a small amount of people in a relatively small area, not to answer the existential problems of a mondial, highly educated and strongly connected community.

    If progress wins we'll find new ways of relating to eachother, new ways of using resources, new ways of resolving conflicts. If tradtion wins we'll war against our neighbour for whatever scraps of resources they have and to erase whatever small things make them different from us.

    For examples of the forces of progres see the new economic things like kickstarter projects, worldwide interest groups and the share economy.
    For examples of the forces of tradtion see ISIS, both parties in the isreal-palastine conflict and some of our governments.

    It's a transition, i'm just not sure which side of the coin will come up.

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