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Thread: Logic

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Default Logic

    I accused someone of not being logical which got me thinking about logic. I found this quiz and even though it has been awhile since I studied logic. I took it anyway. My last two boyfriends had studied logic. One had a masters in library science and was ILI . The other is an SLE architect. They both tried to teach me formal logic.I have forgotten a lot of it so my score was not very high, ...

    So I have a some questions:

    Are logical types more capable of grasping formal logic than ethical types?

    What does it mean to be a "logical" type in socionics?

    Theoretically, can you change your type through study?


    Some of the questions were very easy but others I could not understand the logic behind the correct answer. Someone tried to help me understand today but they had to go to work and left me frustrated.
    http://www.helloquizzy.com/tests/the...-aptitude-test



    Your result for The Logical Aptitude Test ...
    You Are Semi-Rational.

    You scored 29 out of 45.



    Let's put it this way. You've gone to school. Maybe you learned something about valid reasoning while you were there. You can even hold up a reasoned discourse in a chat...as long as it's really brief.
    But something is wrong. It's just that you lose focus. You can't get your argument to convince anyone, really. You muddle through rhetorical tricks until everyone has forgotten what you were trying to prove in the first place. Then, you will often end with a platitude like: "It's all just relative, right?" Well, no. Your regular failure to connect the premises in a way that matches a valid argument does not prove relativism, or much of anything.
    Just study logic, not your impressions of what you think logic "should be," or what "seems logical" to you -- just dull, formal logic. That much will help your reasoning and make those chats and arguments more substantive than your usual drivel.


    You scored 29% on Validity, higher than
    68% of your peers.



    My biggest problem with these tests are that they do take some focus and I like my answers to come faster. Do intuitive types get their "answers" faster but have a harder time focusing when it requires plain old logic? I am not talking about common sense here since I feel my common sense is pretty intuitive. My critical thinking skills are pretty good as well.


    Edit: I answered every question even when I wasn't sure so it cost me some points. If anyone takes the quiz skip it if you can't figure it out.
    Last edited by Aylen; 11-25-2017 at 05:28 AM. Reason: removed personal info

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Ahhh, Ti masturbation. Well, you got the proper forum covered, Aylen. Anyway, may check it after the great soley sunwheel Absurdiess jas left my scorched body and most importantly alcohol has evaporated.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    lol. what a troll

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    shit test.

    question 5: If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?
    "correct" answer: It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.

    nope nope nope
    This question was my main source of frustration and someone tried to explain it to me for a half hour and I kept saying illogical. grrrr

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    lol. what a troll
    Hah not a troll thread. I am stuck on this logic thing now and once something is stuck in my head I have to sort it out. Therefore I made a thread where I thought someone who knows the answers would answer them Like the question Vois mentioned above is frustrating when someone tries to explain it to me.. If someone is trolling my thread with irrelevant comments because they don't know the answers that's fine too, I want answers to my specific questions, nothing more.

    Edited because of factor.

    Edit @Kim @bg if this is in the wrong section can you please move it. Thank you.
    Last edited by Aylen; 05-22-2014 at 09:51 PM. Reason: link

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    i meant vois' quoted question. if you think their answer is illogical i would say there is probably nothing wrong with your "Ti".

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    ????????????????

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    i meant vois' quoted question. if you think their answer is illogical i would say there is probably nothing wrong with your "Ti".
    Sorry I am just on a one track mind right now and took it personal.

    I'm laughing at my own hurt feelings... I am definitely not very rational.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    shit test.

    question 5: If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?
    "correct" answer: It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.

    nope nope nope
    Thank you so much.

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    do you like pokémon Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    you guys are making it too about the legality logic math club shit and missing the point

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    you guys are making it too about the legality logic math club shit and missing the point
    Nigga what

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    chessclub chessclub logic missing point something!

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I took the quiz again and got "Rational". This time I read the instructions carefully and skipped the questions I was not sure of the first time. Apparently less is more. Following the instructions the first time probably would have been the logical thing to do..

    I am still not comfortable with the answer to the question posted above but maybe I will wrap my head around it some day. I recall having a similar issue with time travel years ago, after reading "The Time Machine", and arguing why it was not possible and then one day I woke up "knowing" that it is theoretically possible. Before that epiphany I was troubled by the idea of human time travel.

    I am still thinking about the questions I asked above though... hint hint I have relaxed about the "Gormagians". It kinda stressed me for a few hours. I have mentioned before that I can feel uncomfortable when I can't figure something out. I find myself thinking that I am the only person in the world that doesn't "get it". I know that is not rational thinking.

    Edit: Lesson for today: rational people do not get in over their heads. heh In real life I would avoid these kinds of discussions until I was sure I could pull it off, except with people I really trust not to make me feel stupid because I don't understand something.
    Last edited by Aylen; 11-25-2017 at 05:32 AM. Reason: edited out personal info

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    There's a difference between being good at subjects / lines of work that require logical thinking and actually using this style of thinking in your everyday life. I would guess the latter is much more culturally influenced, while the former it's more of a skill with a partially innate component and a training component.

    I wouldn't personally trust a SLE telling me "you're not logical". They often seem have their own version of "logic" which is mostly about "whatever kind of argument that makes it look like I am right".
    Last edited by FDG; 05-23-2014 at 08:48 AM.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    chessclub chessclub logic missing point something!
    Missing point chess math legality logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post

    Are logical types more capable of grasping formal logic than ethical types?

    What does it mean to be a "logical" type in socionics?

    Theoretically, can you change your type through study?
    1) Not necessarily.

    2) Logical types are going to use logic as a form of rationalisation in decision making -- which is not necessarily the "logical" thing to do in all cases. Also, it doesn't mean they're logic is without fault.

    Going further: Ti-bases are going to see the world as being logical, something to be evaluated, analysed, and a natural place for drawing firm conclusions from. (Static viewpoint/static response). Te-bases are going to see the world as not being logical enough, and therefore feel a need to bring order and structure into it. (Dynamic viewpoint/static response).

    3) No, you can't change to a logical type. But never think of that as an impediment. Just because you don't see the world as logical doesn't mean logic has to be an alien concept to you. You can be an ethical type and learn to be better at maths than a logical type who hasn't bothered.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Are logical types more capable of grasping formal logic than ethical types?
    Maybe not so much simply grasping it as much as having a natural penchant towards implementing it where applicable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    What does it mean to be a "logical" type in socionics?
    A predisposition towards intellectual understanding of received information over experiential synthesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Theoretically, can you change your type through study?
    Depends on what your theory says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    A predisposition towards intellectual understanding of received information over experiential synthesis.
    I'm an ethical type (supposedly), and I've always had this predisposition you speak of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    1) Not necessarily.

    2) Logical types are going to use logic as a form of rationalisation in decision making -- which is not necessarily the "logical" thing to do in all cases. Also, it doesn't mean they're logic is without fault.

    Going further: Ti-bases are going to see the world as being logical, something to be evaluated, analysed, and a natural place for drawing firm conclusions from. (Static viewpoint/static response). Te-bases are going to see the world as not being logical enough, and therefore feel a need to bring order and structure into it. (Dynamic viewpoint/static response).

    3) No, you can't change to a logical type. But never think of that as an impediment. Just because you don't see the world as logical doesn't mean logic has to be an alien concept to you. You can be an ethical type and learn to be better at maths than a logical type who hasn't bothered.
    Thanks, I am starting to realize that no matter what I do I am not going to be seen as a Mr Spock logical type. I am so random... I have been this way since childhood according to my family. I do learn pretty fast and was considered a "gifted student" even though I rarely turned in homework. I was sent to alternative school where they used different methods. I was an A student. I quit school before I reached high school though and have been self educated, for the most part, since then. I do seek out people I feel will help me learn and understand but it is on my terms now.

    This seems to be right-brain left-brain related??? I have taken almost every quiz on the internet I could find on it and consistently tested right brain, except when I was under the tutelage of some left brain logical type. Then I test as balanced brain but when they aren't around for a while I quickly revert back to right-brain. It's like they can enhance my left-brain activity and make me use that part of my brain more. I actually like it.

    I really want to know what goes on in those logical brains. My mom is LSI and uneducated but I just see she is a logical type in her demeanor and they way she approaches problems. She can't even read or write English but when I see her wheels turning I just want to scream, "how do you think?". I did ask her that years ago and her response was, "I don't think in Greek anymore I think in English." I guess that was a logical response even though it wasn't an intellectual response so perhaps logical in socionics has less to do with actual intellect than I thought. On some of the visual right/left quizzes my mom views things from a balanced brain perspective. Meh this is something that has my brain whirling right now.

     





     





     


    Last edited by Aylen; 05-23-2014 at 07:17 PM. Reason: clarity

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Thanks, I am starting to realize that no matter what I do I am not going to be seen as a Mr Spock logical type.
    You don't want to be "Capitalist" Pig's type?

    Young lady...

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    You don't want to be "Capitalist" Pig's type?

    Young lady...


    No, I couldn't pull it off... Although when I saw his video, I noticed he is way more laid back than I imagined.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post


    No, I couldn't pull it off... Although when I saw his video, I noticed he is way more laid back than I imagined.
    Wat? Video?

    Link me, kek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Wat? Video?

    Link me, kek.
    It is somewhere in the "what's my type" section. It changed my perception and made him more human less Spock-like to me. Nice video.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It is somewhere in the "what's my type" section. It changed my perception and made him more human less Spock-like to me. Nice video.
    Hhahahahahahahahah.

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    I'm an ethical type (supposedly), and I've always had this predisposition you speak of.
    Then one of us is lying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Then one of us is lying.
    Hmm, not necessarily lying if intuition also plays a part in it... Perhaps logic and intuition is the key combination... But an intuitive ethical may have the right order of functions needed to easily grasp logical information in a different way but still get it. They may not be able to express their understanding in the same way as a logical intuitive (order of function may be important or not) type. Just typing out loud here.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    Then one of us is lying.
    Lying would entail a deliberate perversion of facts. I don't see why either of us would bother over such a thing.

    It's the one thing that is confusing my typing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I draw on my common sense and street smarts to get the upperhand. I am usually plotting 10 steps ahead of them and tend to run circles around them with a mixture of logic and some emotional manipulation.
    I have done this with a couple of ILI as well but their intuitive edge made it a little harder . Academically they could run circles around me but they taught me how to use critical thinking so that I would not come off as "stupid" when I talked to others so that gave me an edge further along in the relationships to turn their logic against them by observing and kinda mimicking their style.
    ah okay...so you were manipulating absurd and invisiblejim on the Free Absurd and other threads.

    But Absurd claims it's you and invisiblejim who are pawns in a game of his design.



    Further more invisiblejim sees himself as an abusive person:



    so which is it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    ah okay...so you were manipulating absurd and invisiblejim on the Free Absurd and other threads.

    But Absurd claims it's you and invisiblejim who are pawns in a game of his design.



    Further more invisiblejim sees himself as an abusive person:



    so which is it...
    Awww, Stanley

    I am feeling compassion for you so I will answer these questions. Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. First of all those were real life romantic relationships I was talking about. It was not a challenge to you as an SLE or related to our interactions so I hope you didn't take it personal.

    RE: Absurd thread... I was supporting my friends and a "cause" (exposing unfair banning practices) in that thread. That's all... see my signature for clarity.

    Please highlight where absurd claims injim and I are his pawns. I just saw a sarcastic post in response to you and Zap/Ath antagonizing him over a long period of time (trying to get him banned) and him letting you know he has dealt with people like you before and knows from experience how to handle you. He basically says he is going to get you to expose yourself, which he did. I didn't read anything else into it.

    InJim is a sarcastic person and has a somewhat dry and sometimes dark sense of humor. I appreciate that kind of humor and it's part of the reason I like him so damn much. Absurd's sense of humor is similar but a bit darker, maybe. They are cool people and I understand them as much as they allow me to. The three of us have things in common. We maintain an aura of mystery in many ways and we don't let a lot of people into our private worlds. Even with all I have shared about myself on this forum I have not exposed all my real vulnerabilities. I keep my iron shield up.

    Instead of trying to find ways to beat me why don't you share something about yourself so people don't think you are just some crazed internet stalker fixated on taking me down...Yeah, you won't and I think I know why. If there is nothing else then let's proceed with "harassing other people." and not talking to each other.

    Edit: Making fun of you is not fun anymore. It makes me feel bad after so just leave me alone unless you have something relevant to the topics in the threads. If you just want to "poke me" keep it to yourself or talk behind my back like you usually do.
    Last edited by Aylen; 05-25-2014 at 03:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    shit test.

    question 5: If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?
    "correct" answer: It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.

    nope nope nope
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    This question was my main source of frustration and someone tried to explain it to me for a half hour and I kept saying illogical. grrrr
    If something does not exist then you can safely state anything about it, it will be logically true. Sorry if that's by now trivial for you

    In case it's not clear: not only are all the other answer options are false if you want to interpret them in the most absolutely anal way (which I was perfectly willing to do hehe) but if we state that the Gormagians don't exist then we can deduce everything crazy to be true from that. (Everything that would otherwise be contradictions.) In this sense the statement in the question is logically true.

    Note: there are different ways of logical reasoning outside the scope of basic first order formal logic that deal with these sort of issues differently. But that goes way beyond this test

    Btw I got one question wrong, scored 41 out of 45, test calling me "Most Logical". But that one question is bullshit haha (question 11). (Explanation for why it's bullshit, two answers are logically valid but only one answer is elegant and that's the one that's accepted.)


    You Are Most Logical!

    You scored 41 out of 45.
    You know deduction. You spot inconsistency. You know the difference between a contingency and a tautology. For you, most discourse is more or less transparent. Accept these kudos as the least that this quiz can offer to you.
    If you didn't get a perfect score, wait a week and review the thing then. You definitely have a sense for implications and proofs, but may have gotten caught up in some of the rhetoric along the way.

    Your Analysis (Vertical line = Average)



    • You scored 41% on Validity, higher than 94% of your peers.


    Last edited by Myst; 05-02-2015 at 01:54 PM.

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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    fwiw, i really really hate this test, and i just put random shit for the last two. i couldn't take any more.

    http://www.helloquizzy.com/results/t...y=17&fromCGI=1

    i got you are a dumbass, 17/45

    i was kind of fucking arond earlier too.

    but yeah i struggle with this kind of logic stuff a bit?

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    i hated this test:

    i mean come on.

    1
    All humans are reptiles.
    Some mammals are omnivores.
    Some primates are humans.
    Something is a mammal only if it is not a reptile.
    Given these and only these premises, which of the following has to be the case?

    Something isn't a mammal if it's a human.
    Some reptiles are omnivores.
    There exists a mammal that is a primate.
    No humans are reptiles.
    2
    A and B is the case if and only if B or C is the case.

    What must follow from this premise?

    If A, then B, and if B, then C.
    B or C, or not B, or not A, and if A, then C.
    If B, then C. Also, if B, then B.
    If B, then A. Also, if C, then A.
    3
    My friend is a junkie.
    All junkies are losers.
    All losers are bothersome.
    Which of the following claims is inconsistent with these premises?

    My friend is a loser.
    My friend is not bothersome.
    All junkies are bothersome.
    All non-bothersome people are non-junkies.
    4
    If someone is an active creature, then everyone is a brainy creature. Cats exist only if there is at least one dog. Natalie is an active cat. What must follow?

    There exists a brainy dog.
    Some dogs are cats.
    Natalie is not a brainy cat.
    Natalie is an active dog.
    5
    If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?

    It's logically true when all of the Gormagiaons are dead.
    It's logically true when I kill all of the Gormagians.
    It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.
    It's logically true when I kill the last Gormagian.
    6
    There doesn't exist a human that isn't also an invertebrate.

    What must follow given that premise?

    There exists one invertebrate or one human.
    There exists an invertebrate if there is at least one human.
    There is at least one vertebrate human.
    Humans are not invertebrates.
    7
    All collectors are arbiters.
    There exists a collector.
    There exists a collector who is a broker.
    Based on the premises, we could only deduce one of the following. Which one?

    There exists an arbiter.
    There exists a broker who is not an arbiter.
    There exists a collector who is not an arbiter.
    There exists a non-broker.
    8
    Two men walk into a bar.

    Of the two men, one buys a beer.

    Of the two men, one buys a shot of whiskey.

    Of the two men, one buys a martini.


    What follows from these facts?

    One of the men bought one drink.
    One of the men bought three drinks.
    One of the men bought at least two drinks.
    None of the other answers are consistent.
    9
    Some people marvel all people and all people believe some people. Alice is someone.



    If the above statements are true, which of the following is impossible?

    Alice marvels Bruno, and Bruno is believed by Alice.
    Alice believes herself and is marveled by herself.
    All people are marveled by some people, but some people are believed by all people.
    Someone isn't marveled by Alice, or someone doesn't believe her.
    10
    'Both not-A and B' is equivalent to which of the following statements?

    'Either not-A or not-B.'
    'Not either not-A or not-B.'
    'Not either not-A or not, not-B.'
    'Not either not not-A or not-B.'
    11
    'If flangle and flingle, then flingle, then flangle,' also means...

    Flangle and flingle.
    Flangle.
    Flingle, and not flangle.
    Not flangle or not flingle.
    12
    If X equals Y, Y equals Z, and X is the ancestor of Y, then...

    X, Y, and Z are all their own ancestors.
    X is ancestor to Z, but Z is not ancestor to Y.
    Y is ancestor to Z and X, but not himself.
    Y and Z are the only ancestors of each other.
    13
    Where X, Y, and Z designate people, what's another way of saying, "There are exactly two people in the room?"

    X is in the room and Y is in the room, but Z is not in the room.
    X and Z are in the room, and they are not the same, and Y is not in the room.
    X is in the room and Y is in the room, but if a Z is in the room, then Z is either X or Y, and X and Y are not the same!
    X is in the room, and all Y's, if in the room, are the same as X, and Z is in the room.
    14
    You obey bivalence, so if it is false that Barcelona is the capital of Spain, is it true that it is not the case that it's true that it's false that Barcelona is not the capital of Spain?

    No.
    Yes.
    Maybe.
    It depends...
    15
    Either ostriches eat engines or both ostriches eat engines and orangutans eat steering wheels if, and only if...

    Ostriches eat engines.
    Ostriches eat engines and steering wheels.
    Orangutans eat steering wheels and ostriches eat engines.
    Orangutans eat what ostriches eat.

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    You Are Most Logical!

    You scored 41 out of 45.

    You know deduction. You spot inconsistency. You know the difference between a contingency and a tautology. For you, most discourse is more or less transparent. Accept these kudos as the least that this quiz can offer to you.
    If you didn't get a perfect score, wait a week and review the thing then. You definitely have a sense for implications and proofs, but may have gotten caught up in some of the rhetoric along the way.


    Your Analysis (Vertical line = Average)




    • You scored 41% on Validity, higher than 94% of your peers.


    edit; retook it got 45/45

    Your Analysis (Vertical line = Average)


    You scored 45% on Validity, higher than 99% of your peers.


    Last edited by miss BabyDoll; 05-02-2015 at 08:01 AM.
    ipsa scientia potestas est-adaequatio intellectus et rei

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    Quote Originally Posted by miss BabyDoll View Post
    You Are Most Logical!

    You scored 41 out of 45.
    Lol same as me; like the pic?

    ohh and redoing the test, I also score 45/45. I guess not only our types are similar eh?
    Last edited by Myst; 05-02-2015 at 01:22 PM.

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    Youch. I answered all the questions as best I could, and ignored what i had read on here, answering it how i would have answered. 25 out of 45, "You scored 25% on Validity, higher than 52% of your peers."
    I don't think I would have done even this well if I hadn't studied symbolic logic many years ago.
    Time to nurse a headache...
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    Just some comments where the thread seemed interesting


    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    This seems to be right-brain left-brain related??? I have taken almost every quiz on the internet I could find on it and consistently tested right brain, except when I was under the tutelage of some left brain logical type. Then I test as balanced brain but when they aren't around for a while I quickly revert back to right-brain. It's like they can enhance my left-brain activity and make me use that part of my brain more. I actually like it.

    I really want to know what goes on in those logical brains. My mom is LSI and uneducated but I just see she is a logical type in her demeanor and they way she approaches problems. She can't even read or write English but when I see her wheels turning I just want to scream, "how do you think?". I did ask her that years ago and her response was, "I don't think in Greek anymore I think in English." I guess that was a logical response even though it wasn't an intellectual response so perhaps logical in socionics has less to do with actual intellect than I thought. On some of the visual right/left quizzes my mom views things from a balanced brain perspective. Meh this is something that has my brain whirling right now.
    That's interesting. I score balanced on these right/left tests too. Like, 55% right 45% left? Very close to 50/50. I don't think this is very directly related to logic per se because both hemispheres of the brain can do logic, just in different ways, but an interesting correlation if it does exist (from three samples it's hard to say).


    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    A predisposition towards intellectual understanding of received information over experiential synthesis.
    That's too generic a statement to use it to define strict logical thinking specifically. So no wonder @The Martrix was able to relate.

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    25/45 "semi-rational"

    i missed questions 5, 9, 11, 12 and 15. i found question 9 impossibly hard and i don't understand it.

    i thought questions 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8 (once you actually look at 8) were quite easy.


    a look at a few of them...

    2. A and B is the case if and only if B or C is the case. What must follow from this premise?

    B --> set A, B
    C --> set A, B

    where these are the only ways you can get set A, B

    If A, then B, and if B, then C.
    B or C, or ~B, or ~A, and if A, then C.
    If B, then C. Also, if B, then B.
    If B, then A. Also, if C, then A.
    i picked the right answer but i wasn't sure about it. the first three choices were obviously wrong though. my thoughts on this were that just because B or C exist doesn't necessarily mean that A does also, or that set A, B has arisen... we only really know that if we are seeing set A, B that we have B and/or C. in other words, i'm confused. maybe "is the case" is what's throwing me off.


    5. If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?

    It's logically true when all of the Gormagiaons are dead.
    well, just because they're all dead doesn't mean our "someone" killed all of them...

    It's logically true when I kill all of the Gormagians.
    i didn't know if we were taking "I" as the "someone"? there's also a tense issue... the tense is implying that "I" haven't killed them all yet... (i picked this one because i didn't know what else to pick.)

    It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.
    if they never existed, then how could our "someone" have killed them all?

    It's logically true when I kill the last Gormagian.
    this one is very similar to the second option, and i'm not sure it's significantly different from that option. that probably should have tipped me off that neither it or the second option can be the answer...

    anyway, i would have preferred "none of the above" for this one. obviously i don't understand what "logically true" means?


    10. Both ~A and B is equivalent to which of the following statements?

    Either ~A or ~B.
    i couldn't tell on this one. this would mean we can't have both ~A and ~B, which we don't. but i don't think this is close enough to be "equivalent"...

    Not either ~A or ~B.
    well, no. because we do have ~A.

    Not either ~A or B.
    no, because we have both.

    Not either A or ~B.
    i picked this one, but wasn't sure about it. it's true basically.


    11. If flangle and flingle, then flingle, then flangle, also means...

    flangle = A; flingle = B

    If A & B, then B, then A, also means...

    A & B
    A
    B and ~A
    ~B or ~A
    i selected the first one, which was wrong. i guess this is supposed to be a sequence, and at the end of the sequence we are left with flangle (A)?


    12. If X=Y, Y=Z, and X is the ancestor of Y, then...

    X gave rise to Y, and Y is exactly the same as X.

    X, Y, and Z are all their own ancestors.
    X is ancestor to Z, but Z is not ancestor to Y.
    Y is ancestor to Z and X, but not himself.
    Y and Z are the only ancestors of each other.
    i think i picked the second one. the last two are obviously wrong. i didn't like my choice and i have a problem with the first choice, or correct answer.

    i was thinking of X as basically giving rise to its clone, Y (where this clone is a perfect copy, and therefore is exactly the same as X (equal to X)). Z could be another clone X gave rise to, or it could be a clone Y gave rise to (in the same manner in which X gives rise to identical clones). so my issue with the first option is that although that could be true, i don't think it has to be true.


    15. Either ostriches eat engines or both ostriches eat engines and orangutans eat steering wheels if, and only if...

    either Os eat Es
    or both Os eat Es and Rs eat Ws
    if, and only if...

    Os eat Es.
    Os eat Es and Ws.
    Rs eat Ws and Os eat Es.
    Rs eat what Os eat.
    it's between the first option and the third (i selected the third). i think that mainly what this is, is that you can't have any of this if you don't have "Os eat Es." the causality of it falls apart without that. i guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    41/45
    Congrats, come join the elite group that's so far only consisted of LxI types!

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    I don't sit no test.

    Logicks for sckoolz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encrustacean View Post
    Iirc this was the only question I got wrong. The reason I brought it up was that I can employ what I assume is "formal logic" (systems logic) with little or no effort relative to social endeavors in which I struggle despite considerable effort. You pointed out that Bain did well too, but his relative social performance noticeably exceeds mine...
    How exactly do you imagine his social performance "noticeably" exceeds yours? He had a rigid normative Fe role. He was ok, normal, about as social as @totalize for example (another 2D Fe type). But for godssake, don't set him as the example for refined social behaviour.


    IOW, it's only through the comparison of my competency:effort that I see some evidence of logics ego in myself. I realize I don't come off as highly logical, even projecting a public face of "ditzy female"...yet this is just an example among many of evasive character (let me know if you find anything in typology that excuses my evasive qualities btw~)
    I see you as overthinking when in analytical mode.


    Now back to the stupid question:

    I can accept the truism as a logically incorrect answer provided logic forms a bridge between the premises and the sensible conclusion—in a truism, no logic is required: it is simply a reassertion of the premises
    This is a bit er, twisty. Are you doing socionics here?

    In any case, it's not a truism. See below.

    (Put the original quiz question and the possible answers in spoiler.)

    If someone says, "I killed all of the Gormagians," when is it logically true?

    1. It's logically true when all of the Gormagians are dead.

    2. It's logically true when I kill all of the Gormagians.

    3. It's logically true when Gormagians never existed.

    4. It's logically true when I kill the last Gormagian.


    The problem with the alternatives:

    1. This requires the assumption that the Gormagians are dead only if you kill them.
    2. This requires equating this someone with "I".
    4. This requires the assumption that if you kill one Gormagian, this applies to all of them. (And again, "I".)


    Yet under this provision, you killing all the Gorblobs cannot be seen as a sensibly deduced outcome of their never existing because you killing all of them is only one of many possible outcomes given their purely theoretical nature. Why did you not, instead, set them on a boat with red sails or make them wear funny hats?
    With the Gorblobs not existing, the red sails option does not exclude the other one.


    So that answer would also be false UNLESS you are implying that you have killed the idea with the same language you used to generate it, as follows:

    "The gorblobs" (by naming a concept you have brought it into existence) "never existed" (and killed it in the same breath)
    That the statement is about killing them isn't because of stating also that they never existed.

    No, naming a concept isn't the same as stating it exists in a specified area.


    In a way this forms a paradox unless it's logical to create absence (which is why I referred to it as a "stillborn idea" in chat
    I don't know what you mean by creating absence.

    (Regardless of this logic debate, I used your "stillborn idea" expression for something else recently. Well, not the "idea" part but the "stillborn" part. I liked the combination of that expression with other things )


    Any way you slice it, if the gorblobs never existing is a logical premise, then the truism is too. Either there are no good answers or there are two and the truism is preferable for obvious reasons
    Don't agree, see above, let me know if it still doesn't make sense.


    Wow I think I just convinced myself that I'm not Ti based...not that my logic sucks (I think if you examine it you'll find it solid though I maybe could have explained more clearly) but Ti bases are beholden to the logic rather than using it in service of a quite irrational function
    Don't tell me you still had Ti base as an option for your type

    Not saying your logic sucks, just, yeah, what you write is not consistently Ti type of information, it includes a lot of Intuition mixed in.

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