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Thread: charlotte perkins gilman

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    Default charlotte perkins gilman

    just read herland & the yellow wallpaper and other short stories and i thought she seemed EII
    i've seen ESI for her too and i suppose maybe she VIs more like one. but i dont like it.

    thoughts?



    “We all need one another; much and often. Just as every human creature needs a place to be alone in, a sacred, private "home" of his own, so all human creatures need a place to be together in, from the two who can show each other their souls uninterruptedly, to the largest throng that can throb and stir in unison.”

    “I learned a lot, when I was a child, from novels and stories, even fairytales have some point to them--the good ones. The thing that impressed me most forcibly was this: the villains went to work with their brains and always accomplished something. To be sure they were "foiled" in the end, but that was by some special interposition of Providence, not by any equal exertion of intellect on the part of the good people. The heroes and middle ones were mostly very stupid. If bad things happened, they practised patience, endurance, resignation, and similar virtues; if good things happened they practised modesty and magnanimity and virtues like that, but it never seemed to occur to any of them to make things move their way. Whatever the villains planned for them to do, they did, like sheep. The same old combinations of circumstances would be worked off on them in book after book--and they always tumbled.

    It used to worry me as a discord worries a musician. Hadn't they ever read anything? Couldn't they learn anything from what they read--ever? It appeared not. And it seemed to me, even as a very little child, that what we wanted was good people with brains, not just negative, passive, good people, but positive, active ones, who gave their minds to it.

    "A good villain. That's what we need!" I said to myself. "Why don't they write about them? Aren't there ever any?"

    I never found any in all my beloved story books, or in real life. And gradually, I made up my mind to be one.”

    “I want to marry you, Malda - because I love you - because you are young and strong and beautiful - because you are wild and sweet and - fragrant, and - elusive, like the wild flowers you love. Because you are so truly an artist in your special way, seeing beauty and giving it to others. I love you because of all of this, because you are rational and highminded and capable of friendship - and in spite of your cooking!”
    “But - how do you want to live?”

    “As we did here - at first,” he said. “There was peace, exquisite silence. There was beauty - nothing but beauty. There were the clean wood odors and flowers and fragrances and sweet wild wind. And there was you - your fair self, always delicately dressed, with white firm fingers sure of touch in delicate true work. I loved you then.”

    “It is a big, airy room, the whole floor nearly, with windows that look all ways, and air and sunshine galore. It was nursery first and then playroom and gymnasium, I should judge; for the windows are barred for little children, and there are rings and things in the walls.

    The paint and paper look as if a boys' school had used it. It is stripped off--the paper--in great patches all around the head of my bed, about as far as I can reach, and in a great place on the other side of the room low down. I never saw a worse paper in my life.

    One of those sprawling flamboyant patterns committing every artistic sin.

    It is dull enough to confuse the eye in following, pronounced enough to constantly irritate and provoke study, and when you follow the lame uncertain curves for a little distance they suddenly commit suicide--plunge off at outrageous angles, destroy themselves in unheard of contradictions.

    The color is repellant, almost revolting; a smouldering unclean yellow, strangely faded by the slow-turning sunlight.

    It is a dull yet lurid orange in some places, a sickly sulphur tint in others.

    No wonder the children hated it! I should hate it myself if I had to live in this room long.”

    “A lifted world lifts women up,"
    the Socalist explained.
    You cannot lift the world at all
    While half of it is kept so small,"
    the Suffragist maintained.
    The world awoke, and tartly spoke:
    Your work is all the same;
    Work together or work apart,
    Work, each of you, with all your heart-
    Just get into the game!”

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    No idea lol. I read "yellow wallpaper" in high school and remember really disliking it, like somehow it was disturbing (as it should be as a domestic commentary) but it felt so "mousy" to me in a bad way, rather than grotesque or subversive in an innovative or moving way lol. Made me feel claustrophobic, although I guess that was the entire idea.

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    it feels to me like the moral/ideal is the focal point and the details and plot of her stories is only a means to an end which makes them stale and preachy.

    i guess the short stories aren't quite so bad but reading herland was torture. this all-female utopia and theres nothing interesting about it because everything is crisp and shiny and perfect and all the tension in the story is only created by the male characters feeling inferior or acting like bulls in a china shop. yawwn!

    really black & white and overly idealistic. i see aristocracy in her stories. theres this template that runs through everything too, like with all her favorite protagonist females being "large and athletic" blah blah lol wtf? i hear how revolutionary she was for her time and you have to understand that to appreciate her or whatever, but blah.

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    she looks a bit SLI-y but idk.

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    LSE crossed my mind too. i don't remember quite exactly what @Director Abbie looks like so maybe i'm crazy for being reminded of her? or maybe its the fashion

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    just read herland & the yellow wallpaper and other short stories and i thought she seemed EII
    i've seen ESI for her too and i suppose maybe she VIs more like one. but i dont like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Just as every human creature needs a place to be alone in, a sacred, private "home" of his own
    Virginia Woolf expresses a similar sentiment in her "Room of One's Own", and I'm about 99.7% sure she's an EII.


    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Whatever the villains planned for them to do, they did, like sheep. The same old combinations of circumstances would be worked off on them in book after book--and they always tumbled.

    "A good villain. That's what we need!" I said to myself. "Why don't they write about them? Aren't there ever any?"


    I never found any in all my beloved story books, or in real life. And gradually, I made up my mind to be one.”
    This seems to be a criticism of a lack of Ne, or the inability to see other possibilities. Also, dividing characters up into "heroes" and "villains", between the "moral" and "immoral"- very Fi aristocrat. Also, from the Socionics.com EII description," INFjs do not really make good cheats or frauds. This however, does not stop them from trying sometimes."


    .

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    One of those sprawling flamboyant patterns committing every artistic sin.

    It is dull enough to confuse the eye in following, pronounced enough to constantly irritate and provoke study, and when you follow the lame uncertain curves for a little distance they suddenly commit suicide--plunge off at outrageous angles, destroy themselves in unheard of contradictions.

    The color is repellant, almost revolting; a smouldering unclean yellow, strangely faded by the slow-turning sunlight.

    It is a dull yet lurid orange in some places, a sickly sulphur tint in others.”
    I can't really imagine a Se/Ni type using descriptions like "sickly sulphur tint" or calling a color "repellant, almost revolting". That isn't merging with your environment; that's very much tied to subjective sensory experience. Also, ESIs are Result types and EIIs are Process types; ESIs are concerned with the natural, EIIs with the artificial. An ESI would be unlikely to anthropomorphize wallpaper and say that it is "committing suicide" just for the hell of it. Being Result Types, they are all about things that have feeling bonds between one another in a state of nature- humans (and maybe, as as stretch, animals). EIIs, on the other hand, are all about discovering an ideal world of bonds of feeling. A world, for them, which might include chairs or lamps or wallpaper as having feelings.

    So yeah, my vote is for EII.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    An ESI would be unlikely to anthropomorphize wallpaper and say that it is "committing suicide" just for the hell of it. Being Result Types, they are all about things that have feeling bonds between one another in a state of nature- humans (and maybe, as as stretch, animals). EIIs, on the other hand, are all about discovering an ideal world of bonds of feeling. A world, for them, which might include chairs or lamps or wallpaper as having feelings.

    So yeah, my vote is for EII.
    if you don't mind i'm going to ask this question on the delta forum to test this suggestion

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    LSE crossed my mind too. i don't remember quite exactly what @Director Abbie looks like so maybe i'm crazy for being reminded of her? or maybe its the fashion

    It's not a recent picture, but you'll get the idea.

    ESTj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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