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Thread: Zdzislaw Beksinski

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    Default Zdzislaw Beksinski

    on mbti forums he is typed as ISTP or INTJ. what's his socionics type?








    "I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams."

    "The blend of vivid colors in relation to other more subdued colors in my paintings is like a musical theme. As in a symphony, a motif occurs, is blurred, comes back in crescendo, is finally accentuated and becomes pure and complete."

    "I react strongly to images that have no obvious answer to their mysteries. If there is a key to their construction, they are simply illustration."

    "Meaning is meaningless to me. I do not care for symbolism and I paint what I paint without meditating on a story."

     

    PROJEKT: You have graduated as architect, so how has it come that you are a painter?

    ZDZISLAW BEKSINSKI: Generally speaking, the answer is quite simple. I am incapable of working in a team. Architecture implies collective work. If I could build quite on my own and for myself, I would be an architect in the same way as I am a painter. I enjoy only individual action. I do not care on what scale. Perhaps I would be happier producing large wall paintings, but only if I owned the paint and the wall and if the deadline, the manner of execution and everything else depended entirely on myself. The case being different. I prefer small pictures that fit a room and that are painted in a crammed studio. If I accepted a commission, I would be anxious to satisfy my employer. So why take on such obligations?

    P.: What is the reference of your art to the output of great visionaries of the past, such as Gustav Moreau, Arnold Bocklin, Odilon Redon, Blake? What can you say about the Young Poland inspiration which is quite obvious to your public?

    Z.B.: The question answers itself and I do not really mind. As a rule, I am compared with Linke and Bosch and in both cases I do mind. I do not accept all of Bocklin but his "Island of the Dead" made a great, unforgettable impression on me when I was a child and this impression survived until this day.

    P.: In a number of your paintings and drawings, the chief role is played by symbols, signs or accessories such as the cross, skeletons, or a skull, which have functioned in art for ages but in a way differing according to the period. You use them in a stylistic version reminiscent of modernism or, at times, Romanticism. It is a conscious intention?

    Z.B.: All I want to do is to paint. One cannot escape tradition. A painting as such, an object hanging on the wall, defined by its geometric shape, framed, looked at and commented upon is as a whole the result of tradition. Both contemplation of a work of art and conversation about a work of art, are elements of tradition, which have penetrated even conceptualism. Why, for Heaven's sake, should I, of my own free will, give up other traditional elements, such as the dim glimmer of varnish, composition of figures, and so on? From the very first pictures that I saw in'childhood in churches and people's homes, I have gradually built up the idea of apainting in my consciousness. And I wish to materialize this idea. It can be done through opposition, irony, in inverted commas, from a distance and through persiflage, but it can be also done literally and naively. I use my accessories for the large part quite consciously because they are, in my opinion, linked up with the idea of a painting, linked as closely as the frame or the hook at the back. And what if I use a particular sort of accessories? I have not got so many. All the greatest pictures in the world resemble oneanother and it does not really matter what they represent. Personally, I prefer painting a fantastic, irregular ruin to a contemporary regular office building, the main reason being that in the former case work does not bore me. The message of painting does not dwell in the accessories but in the unspoken. At most, accessories or rather the preference for a certain kind of accessories reflect the artist's mental disposition. But I do not paint in ordertoinitiatespiritual contact.To bequite honest, I do not really know what it is all about. I simply feel an urge to paint And whether I have too much or too little imagination... I must say that I do not think much of imagination. A tree against a misty background means more to me if it is well painted than all of Magritte.

    P.: Your work is strikingly uneven. Some paintings seem to unveil a mysterious, eery world, but there seems to be even more that annoy one for their banality. Do you classify your works according to your own hierarchy?

    Z.B.: I would certainly not like to annoy anyone with banality. I believe that lam not banal, but that is only my own belief. Is it not a matter of reading false symbols into what I have painted? Quite naturally, I regard some paintings as good and some as poor. Good work is the fruit of good luck or a good period. I always want to paint well but I do not always succeed in doing so. I am speaking about my own judgement. A poor painting results from the chosen method on the one hand, and the chosen object on the other. As regards the latter, I often find half-way that I do no longer believe in what I am dqing. It happens as rule with figurative scenes and I feel as if I have suddenly seen the scene I am painting through a window and had to describe it in words. lt does not apply to landscapes with which there are formal problems but this is not the subject of the question. To return to what the public may find banal: I think that what happens is misinterpretation. When one paints real objects, each of them evokes a number of simple associations but not all of these associations are apparent. For instance, the first association evoked by the word fish is not the same with everybody. What will be the first association 1 for one person, may be the seventh association for another and the hundredth for yet another. A number of real objects painted in one picture naturally prompt an interplay of first associations, according to certain fixed schemes, e.g. the symbolic scheme or surrealist scheme after Magritte style. As I have often said, in my case notional associations are only a by-product resulting from the fact that I paint real or almost real objects which enter into mutual spatial relations in a painting, though not of a notional type. Certainly, the word fish evokes a certain primary association with me as well as with others, and if I paint a fish in certain surroundings, I cannot discard the entire baggage of associations, but nor do I, by any means, use them in a creative way. If I do not paint a red fish hanging from a balloon (which is something I do avoid), I believe that it is clear to everyone that a fish is a fish and nothing else. Nevertheless, if I paint dead fish that the sea has thrown on to the sand, which apparently is as natural as a tree against a misty landscape, because the fish are presented in a most plausible situation and environment, it does not mean that I have avoided the danger of response bordering on literary banality. Incidentally, I am describing a concrete work painted a few years ago which I have grown to loathe because of the commentaries speaking about the traditional "fish on the sand" or, still worse, "a protest against the danger of ecological catastrophe". But I did not think in this way originally; what I thought was quite simple: I painted the sea and the dead fish thrown ashore. And nothing else. And if I should ever paint a nude girl with a skull in her hand, it would be neither "love and death" nor "vanitas". Banality functions only as a by-product. Oncea painting has been finished I very often realize ex post facto, from public response and opinion that high brows have read something else into my work than I have.

    P.: Enthousiasts of your art argue that it reveals the depths of an extreme existential experience. Opponents see it as a masterly show of a fairly stereotype horror. How would you verbalise the message it conveys?

    Z.B.: I think that all I want is pretty paintings. Simply pretty. You may easily call me a poseur, it would not be the first time that I meet with such a question and such a reaction to my answer. But I really want to paint pretty pictures. At the source of my definition of a pretty painting lies a large Baroque or 19th century altar piece or a dark landscape in an old home, hanging in company of family portraits and other landscapes; in such a company there would undoubtedly be a place for a painting by Vermeer. That does not exhaust the subject but I am quite sure that I do not want to produce horror... I would find it a very nice compliment indeed if someone told me that what I paint is morbid. I am very strongly attracted to the morbid, which does not imply that I relish the common cold; what I mean is morbidity in 19th century understanding of the term. I mean something which attracted Thomas Mann. Hence, in some respects, Wojtkiewicz is closer to me than Vermeer, but only in some respects. Perhaps the synthesis for which I astrive is quite inconsistent and unattainable...









    Last edited by silke; 08-13-2017 at 04:33 AM. Reason: updated links

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    i've seen him typed intp a lot.

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    gross beta art.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    gross beta art.
    why is it beta art instead of gamma or alpha?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    why is it beta art instead of gamma or alpha?
    because i don't like it /joke

    if 16t were a sitcom, a running gag would be me claiming everything i don't like as beta.

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    I think the esoteric nature of the symbols he uses points to a Ni user. And his background in engineering makes me think Te and not Fe. Plus he VIs a lot like other INTps.

    His work reminds me a lot of H.R. Giger (who is another INTp imo)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I think the esoteric nature of the symbols he uses points to a Ni user. And his background in engineering makes me think Te and not Fe. Plus he VIs a lot like other INTps.

    His work reminds me a lot of H.R. Giger (who is another INTp imo)
    I also have Giger as a ILI E5w4 sp/sx probably. But Giger is way more talented than this guy. Not exactly my taste, either, but he is a good artist. Beksinksi looks kind of kitschy.

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    Giger as ILI? He looks very not-ILI:





    ILIs are not this kitschy or tasteless, this is more of a beta domain IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Giger as ILI? He looks very not-ILI:





    ILIs are not this kitschy or tasteless, this is more of a beta domain IMO.
    and what Beta type could he be? He's utterly sinister and cold in his artistic vision, with a bunch of elaborate sexual imagery thrown out there.

    I mean, sure, you're right, Salvador Dali is kitschy. And so is Klimt (Ni imo, it could be with Fe). El Greco is also probably a "Beta". Not to mention Van Gogh (talented IEI gone mad). Just saying...

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    a thread for Giger's typing: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...46279-HR-Giger

    i doubt that they are the same type. i get very different responses to watching their interviews and artwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    Giger as ILI? He looks very not-ILI:


    The archetype for INTp is Balzac...

    Attachment 3630

    they V.I. in a similar way to me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    the only thing in that thread was Radio saying "IEI>ILI" with no explanation. What was the point in linking to that?
    Last edited by Whoobie77; 05-21-2014 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    the only thing in that thread was Radio saying "IEI>ILI" with no explanation. What the point in linking to that?
    Radio's words are like manna falling from heaven, they're an authority in themselves, shut up, you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Beksinksi looks kind of kitschy.
    Man when I think of kitsch, I think of like:

    Attachment 3631

    Attachment 3632
    Attachment 3633
    Attachment 3634
    Attachment 3635

    A marginalized engineer from the second world with no formal artistic training sharing his surreal apocalyptic visions= not what comes to my mind when I think "kitschy".

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Radio's words are like manna falling from heaven, they're an authority in themselves
    this is true I GUESS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Man when I think of kitsch, I think of like:

    Attachment 3631

    Attachment 3632
    Attachment 3633
    Attachment 3634
    Attachment 3635

    A marginalized engineer from the second world with no formal artistic training sharing his surreal apocalyptic visions= not what comes to my mind when I think "kitschy".

    I probably have an aversion to visual death imagery that's too unprocessed. But yeah, I get what you're saying. He's not like this after all :

    1471984_10152005251974421_1769197298_n.jpg

    Or like David Lachapelle http://www.davidlachapelle.com/serie...hs-in-flowers/
    Last edited by Amber; 05-22-2014 at 12:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    I probably have an aversion to visual death imagery that's too unprocessed.
    that's cool, I just don't think kitschy is the right word for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    that's cool, I just don't think kitschy is the right word for that.
    it's the right word for expressing my personal value judgement for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    it's the right word for expressing my personal value judgement for sure
    Well, I mean, you could call a red chair green, and, if you defined green as "waves detectable by the human eye of frequencies between 750-600 nanometers", you wouldn't be incorrect. But, for the sake of communcation, you would sure as hell confuse the rest of us who define green as between 500-570 nanometers.

    Granted, there is a difference between an aesthetic claim and a mere qualitative one. But still, if you use "kitsch" to mean "stuff I don't like", you're sure going to confuse the hell out of most us who use the dictionary definition of "lowbrow or made for commercial purposes only".

    tl;dr: Ti vs. Fi in action, folks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Well, I mean, you could call a red chair green, and, if you defined green as "waves detectable by the human eye of frequencies between 750-600 nanometers", you wouldn't be incorrect. But, for the sake of communcation, you would sure as hell confuse the rest of us who define green as between 500-570 nanometers.

    Granted, there is a difference between an aesthetic claim and a mere qualitative one. But still, if you use "kitsch" to mean "stuff I don't like", you're sure going to confuse the hell out of most us who use the dictionary definition of "lowbrow or made for commercial purposes only".

    tl;dr: Ti vs. Fi in action, folks!
    You sure need Socionics IM for a talk about artistic taste! Go ahead, cling to it. So if I like DaVinci and O'Keeffe, but I consider Andy Warhol a bit lower in rank in terms of talent, originality, and vision, then it's a clash of functions. Go finish your studies in your impractical liberal arts college, kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    You sure need Socionics IM for a talk about artistic taste! Go ahead, cling to it. So if I like DaVinci and O'Keeffe, but I consider Andy Warhol a bit lower in rank in terms of talent, originality, and vision, then it's a clash of functions. Go finish your studies in your impractical liberal arts college, kid.
    I'm just using the terminology of the arena. But I admit, I was being a douche.

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    Only thing I'm relatively confident of is his instinct stacking: sx/so. Beyond that, he sounds like a static+process type from his interviews, which narrows his type down to four possible types that combine these traits: LSI, EIE, EII, LSE. Of these types LSI seems like a better fit than the other four since he comes off as introverted in the interviews and not that verbose around feeling-centered topics.

    Z.B.: "I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams." - statics take 'snapshots' of reality
    Z.B.:"I am obsessed with the process of creation." - process > result?

    Visually he reminded me of a slightly less radiant version of George Miller






    For enneagram I would guess either LSI sx/so 3w4 or 9w1.

    As for Giger he was very likely an LII and not ILI. There is an interview in his typing thread that demonstrated Se-PoLR and inert sensing.
    Last edited by silke; 08-13-2017 at 04:37 AM.

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