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Thread: Deltas not liking enthusiasm and being motivated/cheered up

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    Default Deltas not liking enthusiasm and being motivated/cheered up

    I think ISTps supervise me... they don't seem to appreciate my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm. At least that's the impression I get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I think ISTps supervise me... they don't seem to appreciate my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm. At least that's the impression I get.
    I must be an ISTp then because such people usually don't impress me much, in fact, I generally find that such people disdain those of us who aren't "ambitious" because we don't want to work 200 hour work weeks and fill up every idle minute. Spending all of our time doing things we despise just to get up another notch in the corporate ladder seems pointless when we'll just eventually die anyway. I used to have a hard time understanding those people who said, that even if they won the lottery, they'd still want to go to work because they can't stand "idle" time. Fuck that, being someone's slave or slave master is the last thing that's appealing to me. I can think of plenty of things I'd be doing with all of that "idle" time and a few hundred million dollars. Having free/leisure time and not having to kow-tow most of the day to people who want to control my every movement is pretty much my biggest goal in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typeless Wonder
    Having free/leisure time and not having to kow-tow most of the day to people who want to control my every movement is pretty much my biggest goal in life.
    Add wealth to that and it's my ultimate goal in life as well. Who said ambition means working a lot of hours and working your way up the corporate ladder... fuck that... why would I want to run someone else's company?

    And who said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    And who said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm?
    You did, since you said that quality was related to supervision, and ISTP is the only type that supervises ENTJ.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I didn't say that the quality is exclusive to supervision.

    Why am I constantly having to explain what I mean lately?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I didn't say that the quality is exclusive to supervision.

    Why am I constantly having to explain what I mean lately?
    The nitpicker aliens have invaded the bodies of forum members, including myself from time to time, and we must banish them forever before they take over with extreme political correctness, tearing words out of context forever separating them from their meanings, extremely anal reading of posts, and a clouding of all that is said.
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    Im a villian??

    F^&k you joy

    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I didn't say that the quality is exclusive to supervision.

    Why am I constantly having to explain what I mean lately?
    The nitpicker aliens have invaded the bodies of forum members, including myself from time to time, and we must banish them forever before they take over with extreme political correctness, tearing words out of context forever separating them from their meanings, extremely anal reading of posts, and a clouding of all that is said.
    <3

    Diana's my hero.

    And no, that doesn't mean that she's my ONLY hero or that the ONLY thing she is to me is my hero or that ANYONE who isn't Diana is a villain.


    Now who's nitpicking? I just said why what you said could be interpretted that way.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Okay, I've thought about the ISTp possibility for me, and I've come to the conclusion that I act like a depressed Si type when I'm depressed... but when I'm well, I don't think I act Si at all... In fact, when I'm at my best, I think I'm a textbook ENTj... And I didn't use to have all of the issues with Fe that I do now... I think getting hit on too many times and dealing with too much other drama sorta jaded me. I don't think I've ever valued Fe over Fi or Te though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky


    Now who's nitpicking? I just said why what you said could be interpretted that way.
    sorry Rocky, I must have misread this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    And who said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm?
    You did, since you said that quality was related to supervision, and ISTP is the only type that supervises ENTJ.
    It looked like you said that I said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm. *scratches head*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky


    Now who's nitpicking? I just said why what you said could be interpretted that way.
    sorry Rocky, I must have misread this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    And who said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm?
    You did, since you said that quality was related to supervision, and ISTP is the only type that supervises ENTJ.
    It looked like you said that I said that only ISTps are unimpressed with my ambition and entrepreneurial enthusiasm. *scratches head*


    *blows own head off*

    *Joy is finally happy*
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    *blows own head off*

    *Joy is finally happy*
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    <3 Rocky



    On alcohol, a lot of alcoholics are hypglycemic. Their blood sugar is low, so they drink and their blood sugar spikes and they feel good for a while. After a bit, their blood sugar level plummets again and they feel even worse. That's why alcoholics want a drink right away in the morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    On alcohol, a lot of alcoholics are hypglycemic. Their blood sugar is low, so they drink and their blood sugar spikes and they feel good for a while. After a bit, their blood sugar level plummets again and they feel even worse. That's why alcoholics want a drink right away in the morning.
    what function would this be?
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    I mean my saying that, not the hypoglycemia...

    I realized that I get scientific about all body processes... even the brain chemistry involved in infatuation and whatnot. If someone is anxious, I talk about norepinephrine and epinephrine. If they're down or have a headache, I ask them if they've eaten enough or if they may be dehydrated (this is often how I realize I'm dehydrated).
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    Default Deltas and motivation

    Is it normal for deltas to dislike attempts to be motivated or cheered up?

    Even making a true statement about going to college and not being worth it unless one has a plan, this delta chick just lashed out at me like someone had dropped dead, and some other deltas backed her up seemingly because they have hate towards me.

    So, deltas... Why you gotta be haten?
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

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    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    I'm not sure about your example, but sometimes I dislike attempts at being motivated or cheered up. I think it's because it feels like the person is telling me that my thoughts or feelings on the matter are invalid. It's like them saying, "You're doing it wrong." Sometimes all I want is a little empathy or somebody saying, "You know, you have a right to feel that way and I'd probably feel the same way." I try to remind myself that the other person is only trying to help, though.

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    YES. excellent observation. I personally feel that any motivation must come from within. Otherwise it just wont happen. I believe this about myself and about others.
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    I tend to be annoyed by others' attempts at motivating me and cheering me up, largely for the same reasons April already stated. It tends to feel like they're giving me their perspective on things, but not hearing mine out, and not only that, but also actively trying to alter my perspective - well-intentioned, yes, but it feels like saying my own perspective is unfounded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Is it normal for deltas to dislike attempts to be motivated or cheered up?

    Even making a true statement about going to college and not being worth it unless one has a plan, this delta chick just lashed out at me like someone had dropped dead, and some other deltas backed her up seemingly because they have hate towards me.

    So, deltas... Why you gotta be haten?

    I for one love to be cheered up in a pleasant Si way. I love for it to start with touching of all the wonderful things. Even a gentle touch on my arm will cheer me up

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    These responses are a little insightful.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

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    i don't always mind being cheered up depending on the circumstances. sometimes when i'm just angsty for no reason it can be nice to have someone pull me out of it - but i prefer when its sort of incidental, like their mood rubs off on me, rather than a direct and obvious influencing.

    if i'm in some kind of negative loop or am dealing with an actual problem that's upsetting me, then i react like what april said. i feel sort of dismissed.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I personally feel that any motivation must come from within.
    i dislike people trying to motivate me for the exact reason above. trying to make me feel motivated would be similar to trying to make me feel hungry or something. it just doesn't work that way. and like if you can imagine someone trying to urge you on to be hungrier... it would just be sort of irritating lol. :wink:

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    I'm an alpha but I relate to what you've all said.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



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    Quote Originally Posted by laghlagh View Post
    i don't always mind being cheered up depending on the circumstances. sometimes when i'm just angsty for no reason it can be nice to have someone pull me out of it - but i prefer when its sort of incidental, like their mood rubs off on me, rather than a direct and obvious influencing.

    if i'm in some kind of negative loop or am dealing with an actual problem that's upsetting me, then i react like what april said. i feel sort of dismissed.



    i dislike people trying to motivate me for the exact reason above. trying to make me feel motivated would be similar to trying to make me feel hungry or something. it just doesn't work that way. and like if you can imagine someone trying to urge you on to be hungrier... it would just be sort of irritating lol. :wink:
    For me, the irritation is also because someone urging their motivation on me ruins any possible feeling of satisfaction I would have had from it having been my own personal motivation, if i would have eventually become motivated to do that thing myself. It feels like I just did whatever that other person wanted me to do, and it'll never be purely my own.

    I think this is one of the appeal of SLI's because ime they tend to not do this. They're like, "I'll do it" and then i'm like "No, I will!" and it feels like it's my own motivation. Even if they have some suggestion, they'll put it in some way that doesn't feel like they're imposing and they wont insist. And then I remember what they said later, and i'm like "hmmmmm, that's a really good idea. Maybe he was right! yeah i'll do it" and again, it feels like it was all me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warrior-librarian View Post
    I'm an alpha but I relate to what you've all said.
    Yeah i'm thinking it might be an Ne/Si thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Is it normal for deltas to dislike attempts to be motivated or cheered up?

    Even making a true statement about going to college and not being worth it unless one has a plan, this delta chick just lashed out at me like someone had dropped dead, and some other deltas backed her up seemingly because they have hate towards me.

    So, deltas... Why you gotta be haten?
    No, I like to be motivated. Motivation is something I seem to lack, and I make myself dependent on external factors for it. Any direct or indirect assistance in this regard is usually highly appreciated. It's no problem for me to do stuff diligently, and I can "perform" and accomplish a lot; but I always need something to push me or get me going. And I am usually the one who says that doing stuff (like going to college for instance) is nonsensical and not worth it, unless you have a clearly defined reason, a goal, or a plan.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I don't dislike people's attempts at getting me to cheer up, but what matters more is how it's done and in what context it's done. Even so, I can't imagine a line like "going to college is worthless unless one has a plan" being at all consoling or motivating. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do with it, and it just sounds like "you're doing everything wrong."
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    I lash out at people when I'm angry, so it's better for all concerned for me to be alone in that situation. If I'm feeling sad, will just annoy me and I might revert to anger. If I look at someone with more of a passing glance when I'm feeling sad, it's an invitation to come talk to me.

    As far as motivation, I'm fully capable of motivating myself and don't appreciate redundancy.

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    Interesting responses.

    Strictly speaking, I do not like someone trying to guide me in a certain direction that I myself am not interested in or even an interest I am not yet aware of. I echo the sentiments of others in that, at least my own internal motivation must come intrinsically.

    On the other hand, and this could be seen as hypocritical, I attempt to motivate others, and guide them if they seek my perspective on these matters. Of course, if they are unreceptive, I hold back my thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    No, I like to be motivated. Motivation is something I seem to lack, and I make myself dependent on external factors for it. Any direct or indirect assistance in this regard is usually highly appreciated. It's no problem for me to do stuff diligently, and I can "perform" and accomplish a lot; but I always need something to push me or get me going. And I am usually the one who says that doing stuff (like going to college for instance) is nonsensical and not worth it, unless you have a clearly defined reason, a goal, or a plan.
    I like this; this has been my experience with an SLI. At the very least, there has to be a catalyst to initiate the drive, after that, it seems SLIs can continue to motivate themselves until they need rejuvenation.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




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    It's amazing what external motivation can get done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    No, I like to be motivated. Motivation is something I seem to lack, and I make myself dependent on external factors for it. Any direct or indirect assistance in this regard is usually highly appreciated. It's no problem for me to do stuff diligently, and I can "perform" and accomplish a lot; but I always need something to push me or get me going. And I am usually the one who says that doing stuff (like going to college for instance) is nonsensical and not worth it, unless you have a clearly defined reason, a goal, or a plan.
    I relate to that somewhat, though more specifically in terms of things that aren't immediate, or related to self preservation. When it comes to "having food on the table", I don't need motivation, I get it done because I want it. I'm always monitoring resources and my ability to survive and function. I'm always on the forefront of making sure those needs are met.

    But I could use help with how to put the resources I've collected to a "good cause", or some longer term aspects of allocating them.


    Motivation is better gone about by how things affect people and relationships, rather than trying to get me into a certain 'mood'. Gentle suggestions or even requests (ala, what an infantile delta NF would do) work significantly better than orders or provocations or other decrees.





    Attempting to cheer lead me or emotionally guilt me or imply that "everybody else is doing this so you should to" has disastrous consequences for the person trying to provoke such in me. Sometimes I lash back at them too hard, and it gets ugly.

    (there are some examples of this on the forum)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    It's amazing what external motivation can get done.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    But I could use help with how to put the resources I've collected to a "good cause", or some longer term aspects of allocating them.
    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Gentle suggestions or even requests (ala, what an infantile delta NF would do) work significantly better than orders or provocations or other decrees.
    Anything works better than orders and provocations. Those things usually have the opposite effect on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Attempting to cheer lead me or emotionally guilt me or imply that "everybody else is doing this so you should to" has disastrous consequences for the person trying to provoke such in me. Sometimes I lash back at them too hard, and it gets ugly.
    Same.
    Last edited by Park; 09-16-2010 at 02:01 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    This is interesting. I see this whole subject from the opposite end of it. I find myself trying to create a good outgoing atmosphere, or I go out and try to convince or motivate people to do things that I think are important etc. Deltas in particular do not react to this well, so I find myself having to adjust to people who are Deltas. Some in Delta quadra react negatively towards me, and I don't think I am establishing a good relation with those individuals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    This is interesting. I see this whole subject from the opposite end of it. I find myself trying to create a good outgoing atmosphere, or I go out and try to convince or motivate people to do things that I think are important etc. Deltas in particular do not react to this well, so I find myself having to adjust to people who are Deltas. Some in Delta quadra react negatively towards me, and I don't think I am establishing a good relation with those individuals.
    Well the other thing to keep in mind is deltas (at least per my understanding) can react negatively to too much Fe, especially if it's inappropriate or obnoxious. That's mostly what rubs me wrong from ILE's usually i think. Even though I think ILEs are ok for the most part.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Is it normal for deltas to dislike attempts to be motivated or cheered up?

    Even making a true statement about going to college and not being worth it unless one has a plan, this delta chick just lashed out at me like someone had dropped dead, and some other deltas backed her up seemingly because they have hate towards me.

    So, deltas... Why you gotta be haten?
    Well what you described feels like DEMOTIVATION, not motivation to me. I guess either I dont understand the sentence or the idea of motivation if different. My reaction would probably be a negative one to this sentence because my way of living is quite different. I live by the moment, I like to adapt and its very easy for me. Whatever plans you can have about life would change for me in the next year most likely so I see this as a pointless thing. I guess having a general idea is a good thing but it is definately not a must. What you said just sound like you saying someone is stupid and has no idea whats he is doing. I prefer to take whatever life throws at me, adjust to it and make the most of it as possible, what is important is slight improvements here and there, if it is there then its ok. I do understand it is beneficial for some people and helps them to achieve big things, setting up a goal, having a plan, yadda yadda but it is definatelly not for me. It can happen but it will be spontaneous, easy and coming naturally. If someone would tell me I must have a plan id tell them to shove that plan up their ass, unless I would specifically ask for an advice.
    Last edited by Simon Ssmall; 09-16-2010 at 08:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    Is it normal for deltas to dislike attempts to be motivated or cheered up?
    It is the major reason for me to become angry at my SEI gf occasionally: e.g. when I'm down or stressed for some reason, she tries to lift my spirits or say things like "just let it go". I hate it when people try to change my feelings, I need to acknowledge these feelings for them to go away, and when it's difficult for some reason, I'd rather have someone to help with that than someone who tries to change my emotions.

    ETA: I once wrote a poem about this (the original is in Dutch):

    Let it be

    try to
    not cheer me up
    do not deny
    what I am right now

    help me
    cry
    Last edited by consentingadult; 09-16-2010 at 09:21 AM.
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    It really depends on the type of motivation, like the intention and how it's conducted. When it involves ultimatums or/and intimidation than it's unsettling, and if anything, demotivates me.
    If the intention has a purpose, or at least a reason that I feel bares something fruitful, than I'm generally receptive to it. It also matters whom it's coming from; if I respect and trust said person, than I'm more likely to be comfortable with their method of motivation

    The same sort of applies to being cheered-up as well as what one defines as being "cheerful". Instances where someone presumes I'm unhappy because I'm placid and than tries to evoke emotional receptivity from me can be irritating. Depending on the individual, I may attempt to show appreciation for their well meaning attempts by displaying a forced surface persona.
    I'm more receptive to a show of quiet, even unspoken, sympathy and understanding. It's not even something I can really explain; it's like knowing you're not alone when you felt that you were, it's just very soothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    No, I like to be motivated. Motivation is something I seem to lack, and I make myself dependent on external factors for it. Any direct or indirect assistance in this regard is usually highly appreciated. It's no problem for me to do stuff diligently, and I can "perform" and accomplish a lot; but I always need something to push me or get me going. And I am usually the one who says that doing stuff (like going to college for instance) is nonsensical and not worth it, unless you have a clearly defined reason, a goal, or a plan.
    I can relate to this
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean View Post
    I go out and try to convince or motivate people to do things that I think are important etc.
    And therein lies the problem. Most of us are pretty immune to that type of attitude, I would assume.
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    i hate it when people tell me to cheer up. how can you cheer up when you are miserable? if you want to cheer me up do something to make my situation less miserable, i'll slowly become a little happier with my faith in humanity briefly restored by the kind act. don't keep telling me to cheer up when my heart is broken into tiny little pieces. when someone says cheer up to me i feel like saying to them - what you really meant to say is "be fake and pretend to be happy just so i don't have to deal with your moodyness"

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    if you want to motivate me to do housework make it magically feel like i'm really enjoying myself. give me some coke or speed and that'll motivate me to get alot done. or somehow hypnotise me into believing that horrible rotten drudgery feels good.

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