LII or ILI?

[Tacey Ruth]

Hello there, I'm new to socionics so I need your help to understand if I'm wether an LII or an ILI (though considerations about other types are welcome).
The most useful information I can think of providing you is that according to Myers-Briggs Type Indicator I am an INTP, I am socially inept - I think this is caused by the social isolation I've suffered during my life since I was a child - and it' very hard for me to control intense emotional states such as anxiety; I'm almost completely unaware about the physical environment around me, infact I usually hit against poles, road signs, walls, sometimes I don't realize someone is talking to me and other things like that.
I'll answer to any question.
Thank you for your kind attention.

[Amber]

Hello there, I'm new to socionics so I need your help to understand if I'm wether an LII or an ILI (though considerations about other types are welcome).
The most useful information I can think of providing you is that according to Myers-Briggs Type Indicator I am an INTP, I am socially inept - I think this is caused by the social isolation I've suffered during my life since I was a child - and it' very hard for me to control intense emotional states such as anxiety; I'm almost completely unaware about the physical environment around me, infact I usually hit against poles, road signs, walls, sometimes I don't realize someone is talking to me and other things like that.
I'll answer to any question.
Thank you for your kind attention.

What kind of social isolation did you go through as a child ..?

[Tacey Ruth]

What kind of social isolation did you go through as a child ..?

Nothing tragic actually... During nursery school and elementary school I used to isolate myself in a corner doing puzzles or I used to walk away from the groups of children or from the classroom (to the delight of teachers... ) because I felt like other children were too annoying ; during middle school (just like high school) I was bullied by my peers so I was further prompted to isolation. I used to spend my school holidays (3 months long) staying at home and never going out for many reasons: I didn't have friends to go out with, my parents prefer so, my home was in an isolated area etc...

[Contra]

What are your interests?

[Contra]

Just the facial expression in your picture looks extremely LII to me… but I don't buy into VI generally so take that for what it's worth.

[Tacey Ruth]

What are your interests?

Neuroscience, psychology and cognitive science, art and drawing mainly...

[Tacey Ruth]

Is that you in your avatar?

Yes

[Tacey Ruth]

You look LII > ILI then.

Thank you

[Tacey Ruth]

Just the facial expression in your picture looks extremely LII to me… but I don't buy into VI generally so take that for what it's worth.

I find Visual Identification theory rather interesting and I uploded a selfie as avatar because I was curious to know how I would be typed, however I think considering information elements and functions more fascinating

[Waster]

Nothing tragic actually... During nursery school and elementary school I used to isolate myself in a corner doing puzzles or I used to walk away from the groups of children or from the classroom (to the delight of teachers... ) because I felt like other children were too annoying ; during middle school (just like high school) I was bullied by my peers so I was further prompted to isolation. I used to spend my school holidays (3 months long) staying at home and never going out for many reasons: I didn't have friends to go out with, my parents prefer so, my home was in an isolated area etc...

Sounds familiar..

[Contra]

Neuroscience, psychology and cognitive science, art and drawing mainly...

If you are able to give it, what exactly do you like about those areas? Beyond just "they intrigue me"

Based on all of the information you've given I would say you seem LII though more info would be needed.

[Nevero]

Nothing tragic actually... During nursery school and elementary school I used to isolate myself in a corner doing puzzles or I used to walk away from the groups of children or from the classroom (to the delight of teachers... ) because I felt like other children were too annoying ; during middle school (just like high school) I was bullied by my peers so I was further prompted to isolation. I used to spend my school holidays (3 months long) staying at home and never going out for many reasons: I didn't have friends to go out with, my parents prefer so, my home was in an isolated area etc...

if you weren't isolated what would be different about you? what are the idealized qualities that you'd like to have yourself or see in other people? you can reply here if you wish: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...elf-to-be-like

[Tacey Ruth]

If you are able to give it, what exactly do you like about those areas? Beyond just "they intrigue me"

Based on all of the information you've given I would say you seem LII though more info would be needed.

About neuroscience, psychology and similar: they shed some light on human behaviour and relationships, fields which, as I said, always make me feel uncertain (I swear I don't have Asperger Syndrome).
Drawing has always been my favourite hobby, interest in everything related to visual arts came consequently.

(ok, these aren't great answers but I couldn't think of anything better...)

[The Martrix]

@Tacey Ruth

As I understand it...

Being Quasi-Identicals, LIIs and ILIs may look similar at first glance. However, as they share no valued functions, there are many big differences between the two types.

Let's first of all deal with temperament. LIIs belong to the rational temperament, and generally go into a situation with a rational framework (Ti) already in mind -- this rational framework is then to be evaluated, built upon or discarded, in favour of a new hypothesis (Ne), which will then act as a basis for a new framework of understanding. ILIs, on the other hand, being of the irrational temperament, will go into the same situation without a preconceived idea, but will observe and compare incoming perceptual data with stored perceptual data, to help inform them of the best (and most pragmatic) course of action on that particular occasion (Te).

[Tacey Ruth]

if you weren't isolated what would be different about you? what are the idealized qualities that you'd like to have yourself or see in other people? you can reply here if you wish: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...elf-to-be-like

I replied here http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/33698-Create-Yourself-what-do-you-want-yourself-to-be-like/page2

[lemontrees]

beta vibes?

[Tacey Ruth]

beta vibes?

Explain please

[kraut]

I think everyone would agree with me that N, T, and I are simply certain in you. Something had strickend me though, namely how you said you ignore walls, signs and others talking to you. That's Te limiting imo, which is about ignboring factual world around us. I mean Te is largeley about what truly exists and talks out there using the "radio voice" (Te kind of talk). And guess who have Te limiting? Yes, that's right!

[Ainfigur]

You have a nice face therefore ILI.

[JWC3]

Hola! Question. What if my attention is not kind? Do I still get the thanks?

[trifling nincompoop]

Fe approach here
how do you feel about flattery do you respond positively to it or do you ignore it even finding it somewhat annoying
simply put does Fe feel more like your suggestive function or polr function
the reason i am using suggestive and polr especially when they are judging functions is because the difference in attitude towards these areas should be night in day

[Pookie]

I'm almost completely unaware about the physical environment around me, infact I usually hit against poles, road signs, walls, sometimes I don't realize someone is talking to me and other things like that.
.

LII > ILI

Ni dominants tend to be so concerned with not taking up space that they're hyper aware of themselves within their environment, even if they can't find the mustard in the fridge.

Ne is characterized as clumsy because they can completely zone out whats going on around them.

[ConcreteButterfly]

Based on the very little info you've given, LII

[MensSuperMateriam]

LII seems to be more likely.

[Zero11]

V.I. LII - check
PoLR - check

[Amber]

She VIs as ILI as far as I'm concerned ...something like sp/so

[Amber]

btw this is a ILI sp/so I've known for a while : http://www.funtainmentberlin.de/site...Runde-4-21.jpg

[trifling nincompoop]

Fe approach here
how do you feel about flattery do you respond positively to it or do you ignore it even finding it somewhat annoying
simply put does Fe feel more like your suggestive function or polr function
the reason i am using suggestive and polr especially when they are judging functions is because the difference in attitude towards these areas should be night in day

what i wrote here is kinda bad i realize their is more to it then simply flattery but the point is i feel like figuring out where your Fe function is seems to be the easiest way of going about your question given the fact that you are aware of your social ineptness i get an impression you may have decent memories to help figure out if a) for polr you have a hard time and dont care to give or receive positive moods (by receiving positive moods i dont mean being able to tell what someone is feeling i mean being able to manipulate and gain the positive mood from someone but yes Fe polr does sometimes ignore others moods because they may find it hard to tell if its genuine or not) b) for suggestive you have a hard time with what i just said above but instead of seeing it as lesser importance and ignoring it you seek out people that already have a generally genuinely positive attitude towards others and sister their aint nobody outwardly generally genuinely happier then Fe doms (obviously everyone is entitled to some off days)


Edit: think in terms of conscious avoidance v subconscious attraction respectively

also if you saw what you now know as Fe as more a weakness thats needs to worked on then one to avoid you may be role Fe (just a thought)

[Tacey Ruth]

Hola! Question. What if my attention is not kind? Do I still get the thanks?

I know I overdo with thanks...

[JWC3]

I know I overdo with thanks...

Oh, I wasn't slighting you, just having a bit of fun ;]

How goes the self typing?

[Tacey Ruth]

what i wrote here is kinda bad i realize their is more to it then simply flattery but the point is i feel like figuring out where your Fe function is seems to be the easiest way of going about your question given the fact that you are aware of your social ineptness i get an impression you may have decent memories to help figure out if a) for polr you have a hard time and dont care to give or receive positive moods (by receiving positive moods i dont mean being able to tell what someone is feeling i mean being able to manipulate and gain the positive mood from someone but yes Fe polr does sometimes ignore others moods because they may find it hard to tell if its genuine or not) b) for suggestive you have a hard time with what i just said above but instead of seeing it as lesser importance and ignoring it you seek out people that already have a generally genuinely positive attitude towards others and sister their aint nobody outwardly generally genuinely happier then Fe doms (obviously everyone is entitled to some off days)


Edit: think in terms of conscious avoidance v subconscious attraction respectively

also if you saw what you now know as Fe as more a weakness thats needs to worked on then one to avoid you may be role Fe (just a thought)

I imagined “flattery” was an example of positive emotional feedback
I already considered the idea that identifying the vulnerable function would be the easiest way to establish my sociotype, but got wrong.
This is how I relate to Fe information element: I appreciate those who display emotional warmth and try to make me feel included in a social group, at least as long as they don’t become too nagging. I am not a lover of social groups, and I would rather prefer one-to-one interactions and close psychological distance, although I never look for personal contact; I enjoy jokes and ironic remarks, but when I’m in a bad mood I don’t like having people around and I feel a bit annoyed when someone tries to cheer me up with jokes instead of helping me to analyze the problem from another perspective or offering possible solutions, ideas or other useful information.
The emotional atmosphere around me generally does not affect me unless it is particularly oppressive; it is hard for me to express spontaneously my emotions, especially the positive ones. I’ve been told “Whether I give you a gold ring or a filthy sock, your facial expression always looks the same”, “Why do you always look so disgusted about the entire world? You never smile!” (whereas I am very relaxed) or, quoting an ILE, “Your Fe function doesn’t function at all!”. I can act a bit childish only with people I know very well and for a long time.
I noticed that because of my seeming coldness many people at the beginning assume I hold something against them and consequently behave unfriendly, but in case that I have an emotional outburst, they turn caring and protective about my feelings. Even though the change reassures me, the whole situation usually makes me feel ridiculous.

[Tacey Ruth]

Oh, I wasn't slighting you, just having a bit of fun ;]

How goes the self typing?

Actually that comment made me smile The self-typing? ... So so

[Tacey Ruth]

V.I. LII - check
PoLR - check

This is how I relate to Se information element:
As I already said, I usually ignore my surroundings and I do almost nothing to interact or change it, in fact I can loaf around and do nothing spending hours just thinking or daydreaming. Physical activities bores and tires me easily; even when drawing – which is my favorite hobby - I get bored very soon, meanwhile continually stop just to get back to my mental activities. Also I’m not very good working in ever changing environments because of all the anxiety it causes and can’t sustain it in the end.
I’m aware of power dynamics in social settings, but generally I’m not interested or bothered by it. I do my best to avoid conflicts unless I consider strictly necessary to enter one, but when I enter I limit myself to explain my position, getting increasingly nervous until I risk overreacting in some way, maybe being too harsh; if I can’t get what I want (this is what happen mostly, even though people tell me I appear rather assertive when I express my opinions) I rely on passive-aggressive behavior.

[woofwoofl]

I imagined “flattery” was an example of positive emotional feedback
I already considered the idea that identifying the vulnerable function would be the easiest way to establish my sociotype, but got wrong.
This is how I relate to Fe information element: I appreciate those who display emotional warmth and try to make me feel included in a social group, at least as long as they don’t become too nagging. I am not a lover of social groups, and I would rather prefer one-to-one interactions and close psychological distance, although I never look for personal contact; I enjoy jokes and ironic remarks, but when I’m in a bad mood I don’t like having people around and I feel a bit annoyed when someone tries to cheer me up with jokes instead of helping me to analyze the problem from another perspective or offering possible solutions, ideas or other useful information.
The emotional atmosphere around me generally does not affect me unless it is particularly oppressive; it is hard for me to express spontaneously my emotions, especially the positive ones. I’ve been told “Whether I give you a gold ring or a filthy sock, your facial expression always looks the same”, “Why do you always look so disgusted about the entire world? You never smile!” (whereas I am very relaxed) or, quoting an ILE, “Your Fe function doesn’t function at all!”. I can act a bit childish only with people I know very well and for a long time.
I noticed that because of my seeming coldness many people at the beginning assume I hold something against them and consequently behave unfriendly, but in case that I have an emotional outburst, they turn caring and protective about my feelings. Even though the change reassures me, the whole situation usually makes me feel ridiculous.

I'd go ILI over LII, sounds like Fi/Te valuation over Fe/Ti; blatant emotive expression being an interference moreso than a liberating/useful thing. The Fe/Ti axis tends to work the other way, with all manner of emotions being deliberately wrung out of people, and then this data is used to make sense of things, or at least ease the process along. And yes, feel free to say hii in the chatbox

[JWC3]

Actually that comment made me smile The self-typing? ... So so

Good. I'd be happy to help if you'd like, there just isn't a whole lot to go on in this thread. Could you tell me a bit about yourself?

[Amber]

Have you spotted any pattern in your closest relationships? I don't rely too much on intertype, but maybe as an extra tool it can help clarify your type to yourself. Also what makes you confused about it ..just the MBTI or maybe you don't identify with ILI socio-descriptions? I'm quite positive of ILI for you, there's hardly anything in what I've read here to make me think of TiNe. If you ask me, ILI-Ni E5 sp/so.

[Zero11]

This is how I relate to Se information element:
As I already said, I usually ignore my surroundings and I do almost nothing to interact or change it, in fact I can loaf around and do nothing spending hours just thinking or daydreaming. Physical activities bores and tires me easily; even when drawing – which is my favorite hobby - I get bored very soon, meanwhile continually stop just to get back to my mental activities.

Here is the problem seeing this in one entity because this very much resonates with your Enneagram which would be stereotypical the opposite of but in reality it is just Enneagram 8. The question is if you react how you react if faced with your surroundings, cool or heated.

I do my best to avoid conflicts unless I consider strictly necessary to enter one,

This sounds > as Chris Clearly before pointed out INFp´s like to fight.

The V.I. was on the first impression on the second it is ILI.

[Olduvai]

to be honest, you don't seem like a logical type to me

[Beautiful sky]

Here is the problem seeing this in one entity because this very much resonates with your Enneagram which would be stereotypical the opposite of but in reality it is just Enneagram 8. The question is if you react how you react if faced with your surroundings, cool or heated.


This sounds > as Chris Clearly before pointed out INFp´s like to fight.

The V.I. was on the first impression on the second it is ILI.

Fe types don't engage in conflict that is strictly personal and based on a person's convictions and moral outlooks and other factors. Sorry for the reaction but you're sooooo wrong

[Beautiful sky]

This is how I relate to Se information element:
As I already said, I usually ignore my surroundings and I do almost nothing to interact or change it, in fact I can loaf around and do nothing spending hours just thinking or daydreaming. Physical activities bores and tires me easily; even when drawing – which is my favorite hobby - I get bored very soon, meanwhile continually stop just to get back to my mental activities. Also I’m not very good working in ever changing environments because of all the anxiety it causes and can’t sustain it in the end.
I’m aware of power dynamics in social settings, but generally I’m not interested or bothered by it. I do my best to avoid conflicts unless I consider strictly necessary to enter one, but when I enter I limit myself to explain my position, getting increasingly nervous until I risk overreacting in some way, maybe being too harsh; if I can’t get what I want (this is what happen mostly, even though people tell me I appear rather assertive when I express my opinions) I rely on passive-aggressive behavior.

You're an introvert. ILI have Te as a creative function and they tend to like activity action movement very much. My mom is one. Always likes projects just like her dual and tells people how to organize things so they can do things and ahe can at least watch and direct activity. I would say that you look closer to LII