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Thread: Unpleasantness with LIE

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    Default Unpleasantness with LIE

    I know this is unpleasant to begin with, supervision relations with the supervisor being a ExTx.. yikes. But this particular incident got way out of hand and upset me a lot:

    LIE was talking to one my best friends, said some stuff about me:

    I only know about her from fb
    she has a bf, that's good
    she got emotionally fucked up in college.

    ...the last line sent me reeling. We were a group of stoner friends, why would he say that? They weren't even having a discussion about me, my best friend just said "I don't know what's been going on with her (me) lately" and LIE responded with 4-5 lines in succession, going 3 years back. My friend didn't reply to the LIE remark about my emotional health, god bless him, and maybe I should have just left it at that.

    But fuck that. LIE is a bully, and he can't just say whatever he wants. I msged him, told him I knew what he was saying about me, and added "fuck you." He justified himself, then unfriended me. I was like whoa, didn't need to go that far.. I respect you, and hope you're doing well.

    And I thought that was the end of that.

    A week later, he responded with an extremely long wall of text, telling me everything I did that was wrong, patronizing, judgmental, moralizing, bringing up ancient college history that is very painful for me (got fucked over by an SLE) - "you're trying to tell me you weren't hurt by that?"

    I tried to think about why he would do this - I know the LIE is rational and "wise," he knows how to be successful in the real world, and I know it must have taken him a lot of time and thought to send me such a long msg. I figured that in his head, he must think that he's helping me, maybe he wants to justify unfriending me, which was a petty thing to do. But all it did was make me feel terrible and like everyone was judging me.

    ...

    I don't get it, I know it may be impossible to "win" with an LIE.. I don't want to win. I want us to be aloofly respectful towards each other. I never talk about him at all, much less negative things. I wonder truly, if bullies ever feel the consequences of their actions, or if its just for the bullied to take it stride and become stronger. In other words, completely one-sided

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    Generally wisdom is a function of experience. The guy doesn't sound very wise and measured.

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    most ppl get subjected to some variety of emotional fuck up between HS and college or whatever their nation's equivalent is, i wouldn't take it as much of an insult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    He's probably bored and/or massaging ancient butthurt.
    I think he didn't want me to have the last word.

    I should have said something really mean, like "don't you have a gf to be spending time with during the weekend instead of writing long ass msgs to someone you unfriended?" Damn, I wish I could come up burns on the spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    LIE was talking to one my best friends, said some stuff about me:

    I only know about her from fb
    she has a bf, that's good
    she got emotionally fucked up in college.

    ...the last line sent me reeling. We were a group of stoner friends, why would he say that? They weren't even having a discussion about me, my best friend just said "I don't know what's been going on with her (me) lately" and LIE responded with 4-5 lines in succession, going 3 years back. My friend didn't reply to the LIE remark about my emotional health, god bless him, and maybe I should have just left it at that.
    You were unfriended by a conflictor LSE and are blaming it on him supervising you? You should type people correctly and not assume every ExTx whom hurts you emotionally is an LIE. Bottom line: He's an LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Generally wisdom is a function of experience. The guy doesn't sound very wise and measured.
    Nah, he is generally. He deals with other guys really well, awkward with girls though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    You were unfriended by a conflictor LSE and are blaming it on him supervising you? You should type people correctly and not assume every ExTx whom hurts you emotionally is an LIE. Bottom line: He's an LSE.
    ...what? He's a confirmed LIE, we did everyone's types together.

    I meant that supervision with an ExTx as supervisor is more unpleasant than with, i.e., IxFx as the supervisor. We are nicer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    Nah, he is generally. He deals with other guys really well, awkward with girls though.
    Then I can only guess he's upset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    ...the last line sent me reeling. We were a group of stoner friends, why would he say that?
    He has been stoned out of his knickers in case you didn't know. Typical Ni/Se activity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    ...what? He's a confirmed LIE, we did everyone's types together.
    Was this while you were stoned or sober at that time? Also, people can make mistakes when self-typing, especially extroverts.

    I meant that supervision with an ExTx as supervisor is more unpleasant than with, i.e., IxFx as the supervisor. We are nicer.
    In terms of levels of unpleasantness, conflictors are the absolute worst when the two of you are fighting. Your supervisor would just avoid conflict with you in the first place by avoiding the supervisee's mental IEDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    He has been stoned out of his knickers in case you didn't know. Typical Ni/Se activity.
    Jesus, Absurd...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    ... it must have taken him a lot of time and thought to send me such a long msg. I figured that in his head, he must think that he's helping me, maybe he wants to justify unfriending me, which was a petty thing to do. But all it did was make me feel terrible and like everyone was judging me.
    ^ sounds rather emotionally hung-up of him

    in any case don't feel so bad, it was the SLE and the LIE who have been assholes to you and they are the ones who should be feeling terrible about this - not you

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    Jesus, Absurd...
    Jesus is coming - look busy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    In terms of levels of unpleasantness, conflictors are the absolute worst when the two of you are fighting. Your supervisor would just avoid conflict with you in the first place by avoiding the supervisee's mental IEDs.
    This might be theoretically correct. IME, arguments with LSE is infuriating, but not hurtful. Arguments with LIE, I wish I hadn't started bc they've probably made me cry already. If I don't start it though, I feel like I haven't stood up for myself. Oh dear...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    This might be theoretically correct. IME, arguments with LSE is infuriating, but not hurtful. Arguments with LIE, I wish I hadn't started bc they've probably made me cry already. If I don't start it though, I feel like I haven't stood up for myself. Oh dear...
    Your conception of supervisory and conflictor relationships are completely reversed. -_-

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    Why would you get super angry at him and tell him "fuck you" if you still wanted to be his friend?

    It probably seems to him like you are trying to force him to accept a version of the facts that he disagrees with, so he is justifying his behaviour. Seems like you wanted him to submit and admit he was being a jerk when from his side of the fence, he was just making an objective statement with no feeling attached.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterNi View Post
    Your conception of supervisory and conflictor relationships are completely reversed. -_-
    shut up, SEE.


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    Imagine being stoned until your knickers fell off. That would be quite dramatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Why would you get super angry at him and tell him "fuck you" if you still wanted to be his friend?
    fb friends.. unfriending is kind of a big deal unless you're cleaning out your friend list of people you don't remember.

    It probably seems to him like you are trying to force him to accept a version of the facts that he disagrees with, so he is justifying his behaviour. Seems like you wanted him to submit and admit he was being a jerk when from his side of the fence, he was just making an objective statement with no feeling attached.
    YES. Is that so hard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    YES. Is that so hard?
    It takes a lot of consideration for a pseudo-aggressor to relax and say sorry even when they know very well they have been or are being dicks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Generally wisdom is a function of experience. The guy doesn't sound very wise and measured.
    Are you a general?

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    Idk... Narc's post seems pretty plausible (when knowing nothing about the dude).

    If someone wrote me fuck you, I'd probably be like, whatever, dude, see ya round. I'd probably unfriend just out of annoyance.

    However, I also don't care enough to gossip too much- usually what I'll say to a friend about someone, is something I've already said to the person's face.

    fun times sucks. oh well. You'll probably hear from him at some point later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    fb friends.. unfriending is kind of a big deal unless you're cleaning out your friend list of people you don't remember.
    Yeah, that didn't actually answer my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    YES. Is that so hard?
    Honestly, it is. In a way it feels more like being forced to lie than simply accepting your version of the facts. I suspect that if the roles were reversed, you'd have a hard time submitting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    If someone wrote me fuck you, I'd probably be like, whatever, dude, see ya round. I'd probably unfriend just out of annoyance.
    Me too.. definitely would not bother with a week-after 2 page lecture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    ...there's scarcely any such thing as "making objective statements" re: others' lives. And to even pit statements in such terms is often belittling to the subject themselves, as if to deny their perspective as relevant.
    Ooh there's some LIE wisdom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Honestly, it is. In a way it feels more like being forced to lie than simply accepting your version of the facts. I suspect that if the roles were reversed, you'd have a hard time submitting.
    I think my reaction (getting mad at someone who was talking shit) is a little more natural than his reaction.

    What @blackburry said, and also what I myself would have done:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!
    other person: ..k

    What happened:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!

    LIE: [long paragraph of defense]

    ...

    [unfriend]

    calmed-down IEI: whoa didn't have to unfriend me.. anyways apart from all this you're cool hope you're doing well.

    ...1 week gap...

    LIE: [VERY long nasty msg]

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    I think my reaction (getting mad at someone who was talking shit) is a little more natural than his reaction.

    What @blackburry said, and also what I myself would have done:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!
    other person: ..k

    What happened:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!

    LIE: [long paragraph of defense]

    ...

    [unfriend]

    calmed-down IEI: whoa didn't have to unfriend me.. anyways apart from all this you're cool hope you're doing well.

    ...1 week gap...

    LIE: [VERY long nasty msg]
    I don't understand if you are here to be patted on the back and told you are better than he is or if you are here to ask what has gone or is going wrong anymore.

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    Actually, @Narc, I get what you mean. If I cared about staying friends with him, why did I start with a fuck you. Makes sense, and him unfriending me is no great loss. His latest msg hurt a LOT though, which prompted the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    I think my reaction (getting mad at someone who was talking shit) is a little more natural than his reaction.

    What @blackburry said, and also what I myself would have done:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!
    other person: ..k

    What happened:

    angry IEI: you're being mean to me fuck you!

    LIE: [long paragraph of defense]

    ...

    [unfriend]

    calmed-down IEI: whoa didn't have to unfriend me.. anyways apart from all this you're cool hope you're doing well.

    ...1 week gap...

    LIE: [VERY long nasty msg]
    Blackburry said she would basically say "k" and back off and unfriend you in that position, not that she would just say "k".

    Given that I haven't seen the emails, I can only comment on what information has been provided. From what I've read, it seem like you were mad and reacted in a way that is basically the 'cut friendship' protocol for Gammas. He then proceeded to shitblast you with his reasoning, probably because 1. He considered you a friend. 2. He was concerned for you: "she has a bf, that's good -> she got emotionally fucked up in college." 3. He was on your side, yet you reacted in a fiery fashion when you probably could have smooth things over with an open-minded discussion. 4. He's cutting your shit off, so maybe he thought it was fair to give you utmost clarity before he did so.

    I'll be honest, I'm not here to support your choices, just to help clarify communication problems you had with him.

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    Weird he waited a week to message you. oh well.

    he could've been busy. and/or he probably drafted it and waited a bit to decide if he should even send..and was pissed off enough in the moment to actually send it a week later

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    Just... try not to care what he said for your own sake. Maybe he's getting back at you because he sensed you were sensitive about something that he feels you shouldn't be and it made him feel guilty, but instead of meeting you halfway he's just being a snot and emotionally abusing you.

    When I was in Starr, it was funny how the opinion of me changed depending on who the group leader was and the people around. I remember taking all that shit too seriously sometimes and like, feeling like a zombie.

    The only criticism from others I take seriously is that I put a pretty ribbon on everything too much, because A LOT of people tell me I do this, but I don't listen to gaslighters and bullies who tell me that I'm being 'too sensitive' or that I'm 'emotionally fucked up' or (insert whatever mental disorder they try to label me with simple because they don't like me) and things like that, because it's such a cop out.

    If you get frustrated at people saying things like that, but they remain cool and collected, you've instantly gave away all of your power. And well using socionics to say 'It's because I'm IEI and he's LIE and so I'll always naturally be inferior to him' is just a way for you to stay stuck in victim mode and for him to always be the bad guy. It sounds like on a deeper level you both want to make up so that's good. But more pragmatically speaking, just *hug*, *love yourself* and don't worry so much.

    Interpersonal relationships can be nice, but *you* always come before your drama with others. Always.

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    Also, you want cutsey love skipping in the park and blowing bubbles with your friends in a Fe-ish way, but realistically most people take a lot of time warming up to that stuff, because they might just find it plain cheesy and or fake manipulative but for us IEIs it is the pure sugar snowflake candy coated goodness that bursts our compassionate hearts with glee.

    It will take some time for people to realize that and say "Wow I was kinda being a jerk, Sam (insert any other IEI here) isn't that bad" etc. And it will take some time for you to realize "They weren't all that big of assholes."

    THE MORE YOU KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

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    I don't see the practical point of this drama, both from your side (the "fuck you" sms - people badmouth others all the time) and his side (the long wall of text...maybe he was drunk?)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Or stoned out of his knickers.

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    OMG drama. So he said you got emotionally fucked up, and you said you did have a bf who treated you badly. It sounds like that's what he meant, so I don't get why you're upset. Or why you'd tell him off and then be surprised or hurt that he unfriended you. I think you're blowing this all out of proportion. Way out of proportion.
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    "she got emotionally fucked up in college" might offend me but i wouldnt immediately take it as talking shit or intended to be mean.

    as for the long message, i don't get it - and i can't really comment without knowing what it said (like if he was actually trying to be patronizing). but i doubt he would have sent it or tried to justify anything at all if he didn't see anything worth salvaging. otherwise he'd just cut you out.

    this sounds like i'm defending him and i don't know nearly enough to do that, i'm just offering an outside look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post

    I'll be honest, I'm not here to support your choices, just to help clarify communication problems you had with him.


    Quote Originally Posted by truck
    And well using socionics to say 'It's because I'm IEI and he's LIE and so I'll always naturally be inferior to him' is just a way for you to stay stuck in victim mode and for him to always be the bad guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    "she got emotionally fucked up in college" might offend me but i wouldnt immediately take it as talking shit or intended to be mean.

    as for the long message, i don't get it - and i can't really comment without knowing what it said (like if he was actually trying to be patronizing). but i doubt he would have sent it or tried to justify anything at all if he didn't see anything worth salvaging. otherwise he'd just cut you out.

    this sounds like i'm defending him and i don't know nearly enough to do that, i'm just offering an outside look.
    The message was well thought out and "logical" (as opposed to being emotional), but the content was truly bizarre. Like a cross between a boss giving a performance review and a grandpa disciplining a kid who did something objectively wrong, like stealing money. It was also peppered with things like, "you're better than that" and "I know there are things that I have to work on and improve as well"

    (the rest of this is not directed at you, lungs, I'm just expostulating. But I think other IEIs should read it: )

    This kind of EJ evaluation is belittling and disempowering. I've experienced it with a EIE too, a supervisor at work who insisted on making me talk more and stand out. The worst part of it is that they think they are helping, they "care." They are coming from a place of Correct Majority Thinking, and we are not, therefore they can piece apart our lives completely but they are not available for the same scrutinizing. They only need to say something like, "I'm not perfect either." How, exactly, are you not perfect? Let's get down to it, shall we, and poke around all the painful spots, it's for your own "improvement"!

    ...except, I don't care enough to do this to anyone. Or, a sense of delicacy stops me. I think this applies to all IEIs, we don't probe too deeply. We also appear docile and then we avoid conflict, so that an overbearing extravert steps on all kinds of boundaries with us, and don't think they are doing anything wrong. It IS wrong, bc they have made it a one-sided relationship; like mfckr said, they are denying our point of view as relevant. This is dangerous, and we need to recognize these situations and get out of them. The sad part is that this may mean ending the friendship, but honestly, that's OK. They like you as a silly, useless thing that needs to be guided, that can be influenced easily. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU ARE, IEIs, and if this was your identity in your early years, you need to ditch those people who gave you that identity. Start again, and this time assert yourself early in the relationship even if it makes you feel like you are not being "genuine."

    The reason why it means ending the friendship is bc you can't even explain it to them. The people on this forum are more self-aware just out of typing themselves, but most people out there are much stupider and block-headed. Many times I've found that the only way to get through is to lash out and insult them, or to disappear completely. Even then they can justify themselves bc we're the ones who acted weird by blowing up or disappearing, but at least we are free from them now, and they're the ones missing out on an IEI friendship, which is a great thing. They're not going to find other IEIs very easily, especially after settling into an adult life.

    If you decide you like the emotional and silly IEI enough to be friends/salvage your friendship with them, and you make an effort to show this by cracking down on them, they will hate you and escape from you. In fact, you shouldn't be doing this to anyone, and you probably don't. But with the IEI it looks like they are in need of it? WRONG. The effort you need to make is within yourself, to be more laid back and to not trample on our feelings. Or, you don't have to be friends with us.

  39. #39
    lump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    The message was well thought out and "logical" (as opposed to being emotional), but the content was truly bizarre. Like a cross between a boss giving a performance review and a grandpa disciplining a kid who did something objectively wrong, like stealing money. It was also peppered with things like, "you're better than that" and "I know there are things that I have to work on and improve as well"
    yeesh. that really does sound like it was well intentioned but incredibly pretentious and just misguided in the way it was presented.

    *flinch*

  40. #40
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    LIE likes to see people suffer. They want power and money, and act like victims.

    I had to work with someone like that for a year, and he didn't care about the well being of others, only thought about himself and his problems and his money. I don't like em.

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