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Thread: Gamma SFs: Do you relate to this?

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Default Gamma SFs: Do you relate to this?

    I wonder what type wrote this. Se PoLR?

    http://www.socionics.com/articles/gammasf.html

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    But Gamma SFs are the most narrow-minded of all types and the most inconsiderate of others peoples wishes and rights - especially anyone who happens to be fundamentally different from them.
    lol...

    the entire description feels really alpha-centric + stupid and untrue.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    I must admit that I have seen some ESFps acting in a way that can be constructed as similar to this part of the post:

    Gamma SFs, the Politicans (ESFP) and Conservators (ISFJ), are masters of exploiting interpersonal relations to ensure they get what *they* want at minimal personal cost. The game is self-assertion and obesiance, and what they want can change on a whim. Depending on their perceived "severity" of the issue, they can demand that the world stop, every logistical system of polity and natural order be circumvented, and everyone around them be miserable, wait, or lose out if they have not yet acquired what it is they want, or believe themselves to be entitled to (though often arrived at through no particularly sound methodology).
    the rest of the description seems NTR.
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    Cat Lady aixelsyd's Avatar
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    And this mentality is largely why I prefer socionics as something I keep as an afterthought in my dealings with people and not being at the forefront of my mind, perhaps analyzing others via socionics to the point of dehumanizing (if that's the word I'm looking for) others. Another reason why I usually don't talk about it, except at this moment, of course. I guess the desire to talk about it comes and goes every once in a while.

    That said, I can see where the writer is coming from, but s/he, whether intentionally or not, blows it out of proportion.

    Do I primarily focus on my personal wants and desires? Yes. If I feel strongly about something, especially where I feel it [negatively] impacts my friends, my family, myself, and my society, might I unwittingly desire some sort of upheaval of the systems in place which uphold a cycle of oppression (or whatever the hell you want to call it. This whole hypothetical scenario is vague as fuck, anyway)? Of course.

    It's clear a self-identified Alpha NT wrote the article and had, for whatever reason at the time of writing that, a reason to perceive some us vs. them-ism between Alpha NTs and Gamma SFs, provided the writer is being more, rather than less, serious. To me, the writer is projecting.

    I can see where a number of his generalizations are coming from and relate to a number of them, but a lot of it is open to interpretation, like many things concerning socionics, and as is the norm, ime, with relating socionics to real people, I can find examples of people I know who contradict these generalizations in spite of being Gamma SF.

    My own interpretation of all this is that, generally, Gamma SFs have the combined qualities of becoming deeply attached and being proactive or at least very aware of their real world situation and their real world desires. This is further combined with a natural lack of vision that encompasses the much bigger, less tangible picture, and lacking constant awareness of the long term ramifications of a given set of actions (actions which, interestingly enough, are taken with a longer term goal in mind, but taken in a tactical sense without clearly envisioning all of the possible dangers), plus a natural weakness in logical understanding, having a shallow understanding and shallow knowledge (when such knowledge has not come from direct experience). The result can be that of a person, who is entrenched in the mundane, who is devoted to goals and principles rooted in deep convictions (though these convictions are changeable, especially with the SEE who is more inclined to be rootless), and lacks the power of analysis and vision to restrain themselves from going after their personal goals and subjective principles with little regard for the obstacles, which may include individuals, ideas, and systems, standing in their way.

    I imagine some Alpha NTs (among others) can see it as senseless, reckless, and selfish I think it really all depends. The thing is anyone can be senseless, reckless, and selfish in their own ways. And socionics does not blind one from what is truly reckless and selfish, usually. I can see it in those I'd consider identicals and duals and it never excuses it. Of course, of some of these individuals I can think of who are identicals and duals who I find domineering and inclined to trample on others for their own short-sighted, selfish desires, I can think of other identicals and duals who will defend them, overlooking their, in my eyes, obvious faults that are not pardonable.

    They'll quickly conclude that you must be insane, or else demonize you, and aggressively turn your friends, family, or coworkers against you, vehemently persuading them that you should be committed, or at least avoided at all costs. And if they've selected you as enemy material, they will probably succeed in unnecessarily destroying many of your relationships - personal or professional - you've come to depend on in order to feel socially integrated.
    yes and no. Interestingly enough, while I prefer just to keep the hell away from those on my "persons to be avoided" list, maybe the one person I know who I caution people against is an SEE with strong sociopath tendencies. Unless someone is a Blue Falcon, a user, and an abuser, I don't see the point in sowing seeds of discord between them and others. But usually the types who throw others under the bus for their own personal gain, or just suck the life out of others, being the emotional vampires they are, sow their own seeds of destruction. I admit I'm one who may add water when it comes to talking with those who express disdain. But to dwell on it and make it a project to destroy another person is antithesis to my own principles and ideas of being a "good citizen." While some are self-serving, and are callous pieces of shit, they're still human. As great as human potential can be, most don't have the self-discipline to realize it and therefore lack the power to do as much damage except as much as others allow them.


    edited for late night incoherence and dyslexia
    Last edited by aixelsyd; 04-30-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    Sounds like a INTj that had a bad experience with an ESFp. They can be assholes at times, but I think it has more to do with the person than the type.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Sounds like a INTj that had a bad experience with an ESFp. They can be assholes at times, but I think it has more to do with the person than the type.
    Yeah I can't see how this relates to ISFjs, unless you are purposefully grating them. In fact, most ISFjs I know are pretty bad at political games and can easily get screwed.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    lump's Avatar
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    there are parts of the description where i could see how somebody could describe me that way. i can be good at manipulating and exerting emotional control at a close distance. but not as some kind of broader political social game.

    a lot of the description could apply to anybody, really, like who doesn't focus on what they want?

    there is also a lot i don't relate to at all, especially the materialism and social standing stuff. and i don't think i'm really inconsiderate about other peoples wants. how concerned i am depends on the situation but i don't step on innocent bystanders to get ahead. some of it just sounds sociopathic, lol.

    i could ctrl+v the description here and bold and cross out and discuss relevant parts but its probably not worth doing?

    i can't even begin to guess the authors type.

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    blah, I hate manipulation. I can not do it to people I'm close to. I'll have a physical response if I even try to...I'll literally feel sick. Can't. I'll have an overwhelming sense of anxiety until I get something off my chest. Any type of control over someone makes me see the person as weak over time.


    if it's a matter of my safety/life/death...absolutely, I'll lie my ass off and I'll do it without skipping a beat.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    The author is joking. The whole thing is tongue-in-cheek.
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    Esaman's Avatar
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    Putting that rant as a description is pretty atrocious.
    Looks like ILE's to me. Reactionary offensive defense of his morality- not without aggregated Fi PoLR.

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    Esaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    The author is joking. The whole thing is tongue-in-cheek.
    It isn't. There is a disclaimer of facetiousness, but it is limited to the advice part, because he doesn't want to misguide people in facing the beast.

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    It actually sounds more like an Fe leading type, but whatever.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    It isn't. There is a disclaimer of facetiousness, but it is limited to the advice part, because he doesn't want to misguide people in facing the beast.
    I like to give socionics.com the benefit of the doubt. I have friends there.
    Easy Day

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    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Ya... :/ I didn't read the OP .. I just felt like commenting.

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