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Thread: How do you experience your hidden agenda

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    Default How do you experience your hidden agenda

    I'm very curious (Te HA!) as to how others experience their 6th function. I've heard it being described as something you're always, in one way or another, doing, and feel empty when you have to stop and focus on something else. Is this how you experience it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    are you IEE? I mean it sounds to make sense
    yes I'm IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero11 View Post
    hah I knew it I get the same impression with SEEs it must be true and proves the HA
    lol what impression is that?

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    An overwhelming desire to put a puzzle together and make sense of it. I collect the pieces and see the connections... I mentally file some things to put them in order later but never seem to have enough time to focus on doing that, so I sporadically work on my system... some people can't even begin to make sense of it in a logical manner.

    For an example I download my photos, online images and music to the same two or three folders on my desktop... always intending to take the time to really get it organized, which happens maybe twice a year. There are over a thousand songs and images I have been meaning to organize but there are also thousands I managed to organize... it took years. I tend to take in more info/material than I am capable of dealing with... somehow when I need it I just kinda know where to look, whether it is on a website, a book or on one of my computers...I do lose things too because of my "method". I am constantly writing down fragments of stories, poems, insights, epiphanies here and there that I am sure that I will finish at some point. Sometimes they are written so illegibly I can't figure out what I was doing or saying. Sometimes I feel my mental processes are too fast for me to physically keep up with. Eventually I do put together the larger pieces and it resembles a whole puzzle but I also want to know how these individual puzzles work together to make one large puzzle. I get flashes of how it looks all the time but not in a way I can coherently explain.

    I have been in a bad mood all day because somebody told me my desktop screen looked like chaos and suggested I should organize the mess before I do anymore of my "creative stuff". Then they went on to say, "it must be very interesting in your head", sarcastically. I am not 100% sure if I am even describing what you are asking for but this is what came to mind.

     

    I don't hold grudges but every time I look at them I want to start throwing all the books I have surrounding me at them. They could have offered to help me do it instead and I would have taken it better than the insinuation that my system is inferior and I am a mess (my interpretation). I did not detect a bit of playfulness in their tone either even though they were smiling and then to add insult to injury they said, relax, I'm teasing" when I told them to fuck off me. I hate being told to relax when I am working on something important to me. They might as well have said, "everything you do is meaningless and you should be more useful/productive to society."

    I am too agitated today...

    Heh, by the time I finished writing this another person, noticing my intensity, said, 'hey, center yourself" then they took exaggerated deep breaths and we started laughing about it. It is all in the intention and delivery. My mood has lifted.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-24-2014 at 02:31 AM. Reason: edited out video

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    Damn, you're sensitive.
    I don't like being criticized for working on things important to me. It isn't their computer and they don't have to look at the "chaos". It is not just this one incident. It is a build up of them criticizing things I find meaningful and it was like the proverbial straw so I am not usually sensitive to criticism that is given in a constructive manner. I don't criticize them playing video games for hours at a time 'cause it doesn't affect me. I just want to be left alone when I am doing my own thing not bothering anyone.

    And when I am in my creative process I am very intensely focused on what I am doing... it seemed like a ridiculous idea to stop my writing and clean up my desktop. Just another way of them showing they don't get it and I have no desire for them to get it...only to be left alone when I am working on an idea. I have to work fast so I don't lose some of it in the process 'cause ideas come very fast.

    Edit:I am just going to blame it on this and learn to deal with it.


    A type with Te PoLR tends to reject facts given from a source which they are personally unfamiliar with, firmly believing they can make their own decisions that are solely based on their own perspective and reasoning about it. They will tend to become defensive when questioned about their rationale or efficiency, pointing out that there is no such thing as objective "fact". Also, these types experience a significant level of stress in tending to day-to-day must do's and responsibilities in life (like routine maintenance or working productively), manifesting itself as a general laziness or hyper-diligence.
    I go back and forth between both these extremes.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-24-2014 at 03:55 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Before starting any presentation I change the font colour of the second slide to match that of the slide background.

    I then proceed to stare at the slide saying nothing for about 1 minute whilst participants stare at each other in confusion.

    This is how I experience my hidden agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Before starting any presentation I change the font colour of the second slide to match that of the slide background.

    I then proceed to stare at the slide saying nothing for about 1 minute whilst participants stare at each other in confusion.

    This is how I experience my hidden agenda.
    Now I understand...

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    An overwhelming desire to put a puzzle together and make sense of it. I collect the pieces and see the connections... I mentally file some things to put them in order later but never seem to have enough time to focus on doing that, so I sporadically work on my system... some people can't even begin to make sense of it in a logical manner.

    For an example I download my photos, online images and music to the same two or three folders on my desktop... always intending to take the time to really get it organized, which happens maybe twice a year. There are over a thousand songs and images I have been meaning to organize but there are also thousands I managed to organize... it took years. I tend to take in more info/material than I am capable of dealing with... somehow when I need it I just kinda know where to look, whether it is on a website, a book or on one of my computers...I do lose things too because of my "method". I am constantly writing down fragments of stories, poems, insights, epiphanies here and there that I am sure that I will finish at some point. Sometimes they are written so illegibly I can't figure out what I was doing or saying. Sometimes I feel my mental processes are too fast for me to physically keep up with. Eventually I do put together the larger pieces and it resembles a whole puzzle but I also want to know how these individual puzzles work together to make one large puzzle. I get flashes of how it looks all the time but not in a way I can coherently explain.

    I have been in a bad mood all day because somebody told me my desktop screen looked like chaos and suggested I should organize the mess before I do anymore of my "creative stuff". Then they went on to say, "it must be very interesting in your head", sarcastically. I am not 100% sure if I am even describing what you are asking for but this is what came to mind.

     

    I don't hold grudges but every time I look at them I want to start throwing all the books I have surrounding me at them. They could have offered to help me do it instead and I would have taken it better than the insinuation that my system is inferior and I am a mess (my interpretation). I did not detect a bit of playfulness in their tone either even though they were smiling and then to add insult to injury they said, relax, I'm teasing" when I told them to fuck off me. I hate being told to relax when I am working on something important to me. They might as well have said, "everything you do is meaningless and you should be more useful/productive to society."

    I am too agitated today...

    Heh, by the time I finished writing this another person, noticing my intensity, said, 'hey, center yourself" then they took exaggerated deep breaths and we started laughing about it. It is all in the intention and delivery. My mood has lifted.
    LOL you sound just like my INFp friend! She cracks me up

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    I'm open to understanding(or trying to) new viewpoints and melding those into a framework to build upon later. I find it irritating if i can't.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    LOL you sound just like my INFp friend! She cracks me up
    They do the same to me too. I'll post something this one INFp friend posts on FB. It will crack you up.

    What was I going to say...

    Maybe people should stash their HA

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    I experience my hidden agenda when I shake hands with people and find out later that I stole their fingers.

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    No. Seriously now. Well, my cousin is passing on with cancer and she got breast cancer in her 50s. So, what I was proposing to do for the ladies (with who I'm very close to) in my family is hosting an annual health-together where we dedicate to getting an annual physical and meeting at my house to discuss our overall health. If something should arise, which will eventually, we will be our support network. YES, it's very Fi of me, but so are a lot of things I do. I love togetherness; it makes me feel good knowing that I have such a close and loving family who will be (and have always been) there for each other should we need the support. You won't believe with what amazing effort, organization, love and care we've provided the people who've gotten sick. This is a wonderful way to exist (sorry for my judgement) and I would like to take this initiative to continue a tradition of love and care. Real strength isn't about talking about things, it's about taking good actions. I think this type of action is a good idea (judging again, sorry - Alphas ignore please ). So anyway, yeah an annual ladies health get together at my place.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    I'm pretty much constantly checking my understanding or knowledge against sources or people I trust even if I'm certain that what I know is correct and know that the other person or source will affirm me.

    It's not playing stupid, but it can come off that way sometimes in more overt or public displays of this behavior.

    This similarly can make me rigid in my own understanding of the world and make me constantly second guess myself even while I'm asserting my views.

    It's this weird amorphous cock-sure yet self doubting "hold my hand and tell me how to tie my shoes even though I've been doing it for 24 years" grey area.

    That's exagerated obviously, happens to varrying degrees depending on the subject. I can be self doubting and obsessively rechecking my information on topics like socionics even though I've been having these conversations for years now.

    For example I know which types have which HA, and can tell you that without looking it up, but I still look it up before posting anyway. I just do it *shrugs*
    Last edited by JWC3; 04-24-2014 at 01:42 PM.
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    wants to be a writer. silverchris9's Avatar
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    The best example of IEI Hidden Agenda is William Blake's bizarre mythological system, with Urizen and Los and Beulah and all that jazz. It's a whole complex mythological system that has this weird organization, despite the fact that the way its expressed is so complicated and twisty and paradoxical that it seems not to have any structure at all, despite the fact that it's highly structured. It's this bizarre will to organize information, even (or maybe especially) when the information is by nature chaotic. Like for the past month I've been trying to sort all my poetry into nine categories. Or I do this thing lately where I write out a poem in several voices and I do this whole big organizational scheme on the page where each speaker occupies a different place on the page, and off to the side each speaker is given a title, etc. It's a desire for neatness, not so much of physical objects but of ideas. I take a lot of pleasure in a neat, clean argument. I think at its best, this manifests as an ability to give structure to unstructured things, structures that are capable of bending but not breaking when working with the natural chaos of projects/creativity/innovation/life. For instance, I LOVE working on new plays and musicals---in my spare time, I write outlines for hypothetical musicals. It's like puzzle-solving. I think an IEI with a strong HA would make a great lyric-writer, insofar as lyrics are frequently puzzles, in the craft elements of lyric writing. Maybe even a great mathematician, insofar as math (at upper levels) is about imagination, about inventing, stretching, changing, manifesting, twisting, folding existing ideas and structures.

    I think of my hidden agenda as my impulse to building systems. I feel really accomplished when I've put together a system, a structure for ideas. Even extended metaphors or analogies fit this. For example, while writing this post I had a sudden notion of the relationship between Ni and Ti as analogous to molecules. Ni = internal dynamics of fields, right? And in a way, an atom is all about internal field dynamics---how the relationship between the electrons and the nucleus are constantly changing, in order to maintain the integrity of the atom. Now, Ti = internal statics of fields. And a molecule, in a way, is a semi-static relationship between constantly changing structures. Ti is the molecule that sets rules for the interaction of the many Ni atoms. Or Ti is the atomic structure that sets rules for the interaction of the Ni subatomic particles. Or Ti is the hadron structure that sets rules for the Ni quarks. So that's an example of how I imagine my HA function works/how it interacts with my leading function.
    Not a rule, just a trend.

    IEI. Probably Fe subtype. Pretty sure I'm E4, sexual instinctual type, fairly confident that I'm a 3 wing now, so: IEI-Fe E4w3 sx/so. Considering 3w4 now, but pretty sure that 4 fits the best.

    Yes 'a ma'am that's pretty music...

    I am grateful for the mystery of the soul, because without it, there could be no contemplation, except of the mysteries of divinity, which are far more dangerous to get wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    I'm very curious (Te HA!) as to how others experience their 6th function. I've heard it being described as something you're always, in one way or another, doing, and feel empty when you have to stop and focus on something else. Is this how you experience it?
    Yes I use Si a lot

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    Huh how is that Fi

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Before starting any presentation I change the font colour of the second slide to match that of the slide background.

    I then proceed to stare at the slide saying nothing for about 1 minute whilst participants stare at each other in confusion.

    This is how I experience my hidden agenda.
    How is that Fi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    They do the same to me too. I'll post something this one INFp friend posts on FB. It will crack you up.

    What was I going to say...

    Maybe people should stash their HA
    What do you mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    How is that Fi
    as a mobilizing (6th) function (ILI and SLI)

    The individual longs for establishing stable personal relationships with other individuals based on mutual trust and understanding where deeper and private feelings and experiences can be easily shared. However, the individual lacks the initiative to establish such relationships and usually expects others to make gestures in that area, admiring those who do so. In the context of extroverted ethics () as a vulnerable function, it should be emphasized that these types especially value emotional bonds where feelings go unsaid between partners, and are simply "understood."
    Or "silence is golden" heh just my interpretation and he was quite creative in his example as it had a hidden meaning and objective meaning.


    The expression comes from French double = "double" and entendre = "to hear" (but also "to understand"[5]). However, the English formulation is a corruption of the authentic French expression à double entente.[6] Modern French uses double sens instead; the phrase double entendre has no real meaning to a native French speaker.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-24-2014 at 10:42 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Or "silence is golden" heh just my interpretation and he was quite creative in his example as it had a hidden meaning and objective meaning.


    The expression comes from French double = "double" and entendre = "to hear" (but also "to understand"[5]). However, the English formulation is a corruption of the authentic French expression à double entente.[6] Modern French uses double sens instead; the phrase double entendre has no real meaning to a native French speaker.
    Lol crazy stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    Lol crazy stuff
    As usual, I probably read way too much into his witty post and he may be thinking, wtf is she talking about???

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    As usual, I probably read way too much into his witty post and he may be thinking, wtf is she talking about???
    Lol ur funny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    Lol ur funny
    Finally someone who sees how not serious I can be when I make my "far out" analysis of people or situations!

    [even though I tend to trust my analysis]
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-24-2014 at 11:52 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    How is that Fi
    I'm sorry, it was a subtle joke about the second slide on most power point presentations being the 'Agenda'.

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    I experience my hidden agenda by being overly reliant upon those I become emotionally involved with; although I rarely display those emotions ostentatiously and ironically I allow them to display emotions so I don't have to leading to me being less anxious when they display what is worrying me; and by branding those who do not have my trust as dangerous and alarming and concerning when they step over hidden lines in the sand. Because it's a cognitive trip I keep pointing at the problem like ALARM, ALARM until it is resolved to my satisfaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    What do you mean?
    To stash something means to hide it. I'm saying let's hide our Hidden Agenda

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    if i'm esi, a lot of the time i spend on the internet on tumblr or here might be related to my HA.

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    I like knowing about things. When I see someone mention a particular writer, filmmaker, or book that I'm not familiar with, there's a part of me that wonders why I'm out of the loop and leads me to devalue the knowledge that I already have somewhat. Sometimes I'll act on this feeling and try to get familiar with them if I find their work interesting, although more often than not I just brush it off.

    When I first became interested in cinema, I wasn't content with just enjoying the few films that I was already into (Bergman, Tarkovsky, Godard, miscellaneous French new wave stuff, etc.) - I felt like I had to familiarize myself with New German Cinema, Italian Neo-Realism, etc. and ended up adding a bunch of stuff into my queue.

    Most people strike me as being relatively content with the little that they know about their interests. I feel like I've mellowed out in that respect though, at least recently.
    Last edited by suedehead; 04-25-2014 at 08:24 AM.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    I like knowing about things. When I see someone mention a particular writer, filmmaker, or book that I'm not familiar with, there's a part of me that wonders why I'm out of the loop and leads me to devalue the knowledge that I already have somewhat. Sometimes I'll act on this feeling and try to get familiar with them if I find their work interesting, although more often than not I just brush it off.

    When I first became interested in cinema, I wasn't content with just enjoying the few films that I was already into (Bergman, Tarkovsky, Godard, miscellaneous French new wave stuff, etc.) - I felt like I had to familiarize myself with New German Cinema, Italian Neo-Realism, etc. and ended up adding a bunch of stuff into my queue.

    Most people strike me as being relatively content with the little that they know about their interests. I feel like I've mellowed out in that respect though, at least recently.
    This is about right. When you want to learn more about a topic how do you generally go about it? Excessive exposure is a sort of method of mine but I mostly just try to talk to people I think of as good at the topic of interest at length.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    This is about right. When you want to learn more about a topic how do you generally go about it? Excessive exposure is a sort of method of mine but I mostly just try to talk to people I think of as good at the topic of interest at length.
    In most cases, it's at a slow pace, reading a bit of information here and there when I feel its relevant. The way I've approached film seems to be the exception as opposed to the rule.

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    I feel weirdly comforted and taken care of by Ti. I know it's weird but I sometimes experience someone taking the time to explain something to me as a kind of respect and kindness, lol.

    I experience Ti information as something that provides a container for or quells my anxieties and emotions. Sometimes it quells my anxiety by providing me with a good objective reason why I'm feeling a certain way. Once I see the reason, the emotion sometimes goes away.

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    I experience my hidden agenda:

    1. Through my sense of loyalty and emotional attachment to certain things, including people.
    2. Through my tendency to worry excessively about the way things unfold and act prematurely in order to solve or prevent specific things.

    Take your pick.


    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I feel weirdly comforted and taken care of by Ti. I know it's weird but I sometimes experience someone taking the time to explain something to me as a kind of respect and kindness, lol.
    cat_and_fish_love.gif
    Last edited by Park; 04-25-2014 at 07:45 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    To stash something means to hide it. I'm saying let's hide our Hidden Agenda
    I experience my hidden agenda by making sure that I am doing something perfectly. For example, if I'm baking I'll make sure to try to get every last drop out of the bowl. It's really frustrating sometimes. I've always had these compulsions to tie my shoes just right or divide things perfectly when the time for it comes up. I always have this feeling not being able to do things just right.
    HAs are so frustrating and I wish we could stash them but I don't think we could

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    I experience my hidden agenda by making sure that I am doing something perfectly. For example, if I'm baking I'll make sure to try to get every last drop out of the bowl. It's really frustrating sometimes. I've always had these compulsions to tie my shoes just right or divide things perfectly when the time for it comes up. I always have this feeling not being able to do things just right.
    HAs are so frustrating and I wish we could stash them but I don't think we could
    I have the same compulsions. I don't think those are related to Si..internal regard to health...the oposite to Se which is exertion past regard for health otherwise interpreted as willful actions. What you and I do is with regards to being responsible. Using the last bit or saving and being conservative with regards to material goods. Those are things that both EII and LSE have in common. I

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I have the same compulsions. I don't think those are related to Si..internal regard to health...the oposite to Se which is exertion past regard for health otherwise interpreted as willful actions. What you and I do is with regards to being responsible. Using the last bit or saving and being conservative with regards to material goods. Those are things that both EII and LSE have in common. I
    Thanks I think I'm a little mixed up. So my being conservative with material goods is not from my Si Hidden Agenda. I was trying to say that I experience Si by being very affected by physical surroundings or conditions and being obsessive in taking care of them. For example, if someone I care about is hurt I'll be very affected and try to help them. Or if I have a head ache, it'll affect me colossally and I'll start imagining the worst to happen to me.
    Does this make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I feel weirdly comforted and taken care of by Ti. I know it's weird but I sometimes experience someone taking the time to explain something to me as a kind of respect and kindness, lol.

    I experience Ti information as something that provides a container for or quells my anxieties and emotions. Sometimes it quells my anxiety by providing me with a good objective reason why I'm feeling a certain way. Once I see the reason, the emotion sometimes goes away.
    When you talk about ti it reminds me of my own perception of and reactions to te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    When you talk about ti it reminds me of my own perception of and reactions to te.
    What does that look like, exactly? Someone sharing a lot of information/facts? Perhaps something relevant to what you want to achieve, or that'll help you deal with a minor or major setback?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becca View Post
    Thanks I think I'm a little mixed up. So my being conservative with material goods is not from my Si Hidden Agenda. I was trying to say that I experience Si by being very affected by physical surroundings or conditions and being obsessive in taking care of them. For example, if someone I care about is hurt I'll be very affected and try to help them. Or if I have a head ache, it'll affect me colossally and I'll start imagining the worst to happen to me.
    Does this make sense?
    Yes, that makes complete sense. The part where you are overly concerned about your health ia related to Si HA.

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