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Thread: Is this Ne polr?

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    Post Is this Ne polr?

    So I've narrowed my type down to LSI or ESI, now that my understanding of socionics is less terrible.

    I've realized threads on Ne polr here and elsewhere are pants. Most descriptions imply a dislike of breaking from routine and trying and understanding new things, and this is missing the point. Se types seek to understand the world as it objectively is, whereas Ne is concerned with understanding the world as it implicitly is, so curiosity and openness isn't a factor.

    My way of describing Ne polr is like this; I see, and imagine reality as a series of static events. I can create rules based on information I know to decide how things are going to change and develop in the future, and these rules over time become increasingly complex (probably Ti, but this could be normative understanding for esi too). This is how my "Ni" manifests.

    Ne seems completely alien to me, because I see reality as it objectively is, I can only determine what it could be through my system of rules. I think about the potentiality of something in a reactionary way, because of necessity.

    When somebody is talking about a future event that they're excited about, I imagine the event as a static image(s) of whatever i associate with that event from experience, along with objective information about what I know about that event, and therefore from that rules as to how the event could develop.

    It's boring and tedious for me to think about this kind of thing, so it's hard for me to be very enthusiastic. My ex used to get upset with me for playing down stuff she was excited about, which I didn't have a clue I was doing. I think it's this lack of enthusiasm for how things could potentially be that is interpreted as close mindedness.

    Ne polr does not mean an aversion to trying and understanding new things, it's just a lack of ability to see the potentiality of something in a spontaneous and immediate way, and not valuing this either. And getting annoyed at people that do, but trying to hide it because i'm only jelly.

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    That could just be weak Ne, not Ne polr. Do you feel scared when things don't go according to plan? How are you around Ne egos ? How are you at brainstorming or randomly having fun with people, eg. impromptu dance moves? If you were to suddenly lose your job what would you do next? It might help to get a third person's opinion on your body language, too, as Ne polrs seem to have to have a stable, calm presence while Ne egos are somewhat more fidgety. There's also eye gaze to look out for. ESIs and LSIs have a "settling" gaze, Ne egos' eyes dart around a lot.

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    this doesn't strongly resonate with me but i dunno if that means anything since i don't think i'm an exemplar of ne polr. i've been thinking for awhile about writing about ne polr in order to flesh out my thoughts since my idea of how it could work in me is pretty slippery. this seems like a good place to do it. i'm not sure where to start so i'll just respond directly to the OP for now. i don't really have anything to contribute except my own experiences so if that feels like a hijack or something it can be ignored : p

    Quote Originally Posted by Ainfigur View Post
    I've realized threads on Ne polr here and elsewhere are pants. Most descriptions imply a dislike of breaking from routine and trying and understanding new things, and this is missing the point. Se types seek to understand the world as it objectively is, whereas Ne is concerned with understanding the world as it implicitly is, so curiosity and openness isn't a factor.
    breaking from routine and new things, it depends. i'm happy with this stuff when its my idea but i'm not usually receptive to this kind of thing from other people. i dont really love surprises and i haaate pranks. i sometimes like hearing a few realistic options but too many suggestions or especially ones that aren't really applicable to me feels demeaning..when somebodys like, "why don't you just paint your kitchen wall beige?" when i live in an apt and can't paint the wall. i hate that.

    (i couldnt think of an actual example question from my life so i made one up...strong Ne?)

    i want to understand the world as it is both objectively and implicitly. i can't force myself to identify with one over the other. i want to understand the world objectively for the purpose of navigating in it effectively, so maybe that is just Te. i want to understand it implicitly because i'm not a robot and because when i can see how there are patterns that lie underneath i feel like there is more of a reason to doing things.

    My way of describing Ne polr is like this; I see, and imagine reality as a series of static events. I can create rules based on information I know to decide how things are going to change and develop in the future, and these rules over time become increasingly complex (probably Ti, but this could be normative understanding for esi too). This is how my "Ni" manifests.

    Ne seems completely alien to me, because I see reality as it objectively is, I can only determine what it could be through my system of rules. I think about the potentiality of something in a reactionary way, because of necessity.
    i don't really relate to any of this.

    When somebody is talking about a future event that they're excited about, I imagine the event as a static image(s) of whatever i associate with that event from experience, along with objective information about what I know about that event, and therefore from that rules as to how the event could develop.
    i wouldn't use the word "rules," but its pretty close. actually i'm not sure i think about how it will develop at all. when i read this, i pictured a concert because that's something i'd get excited about, and it was just a snapshot picture of a crowd. and that was it, developments didn't enter my thoughts. thinking about how it could develop, my mind starts searching for more detail like who i am there with and who is playing, wanting to zoom in for context. and then, since i don't actually have any concrete plans for a concert atm, my inclination is to daydream some kind of plot. (is this Ne ---> Si?)

    It's boring and tedious for me to think about this kind of thing, so it's hard for me to be very enthusiastic. My ex used to get upset with me for playing down stuff she was excited about, which I didn't have a clue I was doing. I think it's this lack of enthusiasm for how things could potentially be that is interpreted as close mindedness.
    hm. with my eii friend when she talks about something she's excited about in the future, her enthusiasm is catchy and i don't play it down or discourage it at all.

    but then with my sli ex when he would talk about getting changes to the house made or whatever and i knew from experience that the chances were low that he would actually follow through with what he was talking about, i got really impatient and i didn't want to hear about things that might get my hopes up or add contingencies to consider and then not even actually happen. but for him it was fun just to think about and imagine. but it really stressed me out. similar to having "maybe" plans (and worrying about conflict with other plans) or ambiguity or not getting straight answers. if this is ne polr related then yea i probably am. it feels deep rooted so maybe its more of an enneagram thing.

    Ne polr does not mean an aversion to trying and understanding new things, it's just a lack of ability to see the potentiality of something in a spontaneous and immediate way, and not valuing this either. And getting annoyed at people that do, but trying to hide it because i'm only jelly.
    i don't feel jealous of anybody that can see potentiality in things, i don't think. if they can both see the potentiality and make it happen i might feel jealous or admiring or something.
    Last edited by lump; 04-19-2014 at 03:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    That could just be weak Ne, not Ne polr. Do you feel scared when things don't go according to plan? How are you around Ne egos ? How are you at brainstorming or randomly having fun with people, eg. impromptu dance moves? If you were to suddenly lose your job what would you do next? It might help to get a third person's opinion on your body language, too, as Ne polrs seem to have to have a stable, calm presence while Ne egos are somewhat more fidgety. There's also eye gaze to look out for. ESIs and LSIs have a "settling" gaze, Ne egos' eyes dart around a lot.
    If things don't go to plan, it depends on the situation as to whether that would bother me e.g I prefer to just go with the flow when I'm just having fun with other people, whereas if I am waiting around for someone or something I start to get pretty anxious. As for brainstorming, I can do this, I can come up with creative and unusual ideas, but I don't think it's just Ne that does this. The thing about having random fun with people I'm torn about. If i'm with close friends I'll randomly do crazy shit to make them laugh, if it's somebody behaving like that around me who I don't really know I wouldn't be very receptive to it. In fact if i'm in a bad mood it can piss me off. This thread is going to make me sound horrible :/ haha. I have a typical IJ/EJ posture. I don't think that's as relevant though. If I lost my job I would see it as an opportunity to do something new. But i'm 20 and don't have any responsibilities...

    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    this doesn't strongly resonate with me but i dunno if that means anything since i don't think i'm an exemplar of ne polr. i've been thinking for awhile about writing about ne polr in order to flesh out my thoughts since my idea of how it could work in me is pretty slippery. this seems like a good place to do it. i'm not sure where to start so i'll just respond directly to the OP for now. i don't really have anything to contribute except my own experiences so if that feels like a hijack or something it can be ignored : p
    Noo, please do post your experiences and understanding, it's a good way to work through ideas, and it's interesting.

    breaking from routine and new things, it depends. i'm happy with this stuff when its my idea but i'm not usually receptive to this kind of thing from other people. i dont really love surprises and i haaate pranks. i sometimes like hearing a few realistic options but too many suggestions or especially ones that aren't really applicable to me feels demeaning..when somebodys like, "why don't you just paint your kitchen wall beige?" when i live in an apt and can't paint the wall. i hate that.
    I would agree with this. I forgot to mention the need for things to be applicable, otherwise I have a tendency to disregard them.

    i want to understand the world as it is both objectively and implicitly. i can't force myself to identify with one over the other. i want to understand the world objectively for the purpose of navigating in it effectively, so maybe that is just Te. i want to understand it implicitly because i'm not a robot and because when i can see how there are patterns that lie underneath i feel like there is more of a reason to doing things.
    There's a difference between wanting to understand life and the world and the patterns between everything, which all people have an interest in, and valuing the implicit potentiality of objects in a way that you disregard or don't see it's objective properties. That's the difference between Ne egos and Se egos, in my understanding. Se sees first and foremost what IT IS, and then puts it into a framework of understanding.


    i wouldn't use the word "rules," but its pretty close. actually i'm not sure i think about how it will develop at all. when i read this, i pictured a concert because that's something i'd get excited about, and it was just a snapshot picture of a crowd. and that was it, developments didn't enter my thoughts. thinking about how it could develop, my mind starts searching for more detail like who i am there with and who is playing, wanting to zoom in for context. and then, since i don't actually have any concrete plans for a concert atm, my inclination is to daydream some kind of plot. (is this Ne ---> Si?)
    I don't first and foremost think about how it would develop, I probably wouldn't think about that at all unless I had too. I just see the static images and relate to that what I know, and what I feel about it. It's usually just a snapshot in my head, and then I change the subject back to something else.


    hm. with my eii friend when she talks about something she's excited about in the future, her enthusiasm is catchy and i don't play it down or discourage it at all.

    but then with my sli ex when he would talk about getting changes to the house made or whatever and i knew from experience that the chances were low that he would actually follow through with what he was talking about, i got really impatient and i didn't want to hear about things that might get my hopes up or add contingencies to consider and then not even actually happen. but for him it was fun just to think about and imagine. but it really stressed me out. similar to having "maybe" plans (and worrying about conflict with other plans) or ambiguity or not getting straight answers. if this is ne polr related then yea i probably am. it feels deep rooted so maybe its more of an enneagram thing.
    I like talking about future trends and developments if it serves a practical benefit to myself or others. Talking about specific events purely because they're exciting, even if they might not happen, is weird to me. When Ne do this I can see why they're excited and can share in that to an extent, but I can't see everything that they can, so it can look to them like I don't care. I also dislike ambiguity.

    i don't feel jealous of anybody that can see potentiality in things, i don't think. if they can both see the potentiality and make it happen i might feel jealous or admiring or something.
    I'm jealous in a sense that they can appreciate life in a way I can't.

    Also I'm describing things in a pretty robotic way, it doesn't mean that's exactly how I experience it

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    Imho most Socionics enthusiast try to make too much of the PoLR, trying to translate it into specific behaviors. But such behaviors are not really there, it is more a matter of behaviors that aren't there. In general I think the way the PoLR manifests itself is through the Mobilizing Function: if a person uses their Mobilizing Function too much, it is often obvious to onlookers that the principles of the Information Element of their PoLR are being violated, but the person themselves does not realize this. In case of an ESI or LSI, this is often a matter of drawing conclusions about a situation or a development without properly falsifying if other conclusions aren't possible either.Not just theoretical possibilities, but possibilities where one of them might in fact be more fitting for or explaining of the situation.

    I've explained this in a blog post how this works for LSEs, perhaps this helps:

    http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...-and-polr.html
    Last edited by consentingadult; 04-19-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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    I don't know where Ne is in my function block, but I find the idea of constantly pursuing 'fun' possibilities/new things as they come a bit intimidating. Typical questions that sort of behavior would rouse are: What's the purpose? What does any of this mean? Where is this leading me? Why did I just give up on that last thing I did? Is this what my life is going to be about? Who am I throughout all this, what am I working towards becoming?

    The idea of dropping the things I currently care about for something brand new makes me feel strangely vulnerable.
    Last edited by suedehead; 04-19-2014 at 03:43 PM.

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    a bird in the bush is worth two in the hand. -- a Russian ILE description.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I'm not in an introspective mood at the moment.. and so I kind of just do things.


    ISxJ seems about spot on... can't seem to differientate it yet but gamma seems possible (you don't seem to highly value Fe).

    And I often confuse you and Suedehead when I read your posts (who I think is ESI-Fi). so... maybe?

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    This seems more like you're talking about Ni values. Ne has less to do with how things will unfold and is more about being able to process ambiguity or uncertainty. Both Ne and Se exist "in the moment".
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I'm not in an introspective mood at the moment.. and so I kind of just do things.


    ISxJ seems about spot on... can't seem to differientate it yet but gamma seems possible (you don't seem to highly value Fe).

    And I often confuse you and Suedehead when I read your posts (who I think is ESI-Fi). so... maybe?
    I think ESI. I like Delta too much. Betas are crazy:/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    I don't know where Ne is in my function block, but I find the idea of constantly pursuing 'fun' possibilities/new things as they come a bit intimidating. Typical questions that sort of behavior would rouse are: What's the purpose? What does any of this mean? Where is this leading me? Why did I just give up on that last thing I did? Is this what my life is going to be about? Who am I throughout all this, what am I working towards becoming?

    The idea of dropping the things I currently care about for something brand new makes me feel strangely vulnerable.
    Haha, I identify with this so well, it's ridiculous. When I hang out with groups of people that like to have impulsive fun I fall into some sort of philosophical crisis and then just make up some sort of excuse and leave. I swear, all my alpha 'friends' hate me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuralia View Post
    Haha, I identify with this so well, it's ridiculous. When I hang out with groups of people that like to have impulsive fun I fall into some sort of philosophical crisis and then just make up some sort of excuse and leave. I swear, all my alpha 'friends' hate me.
    Yeah, I can't do parties or large get-togethers for too long without feeling like I'm wasting my time. Close friends or family on a holiday is fine though.

    Part of it is social anxiety, and another part of it is just not seeing the use of it from a long-term perspective. No genuine bonds are being formed or strengthened, I'm not actually enjoying this, nothing's being gained, none of this matters. It's pointless self-indulgence. A distraction. I could be working on my resume, applying for jobs, finishing the book I'm reading, catching up on my homework, etc.
    Last edited by suedehead; 04-19-2014 at 08:27 PM.

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    Yeah I agree. It's virtually the same for me. I'm slightly better with parties than when my SEI friend comes up with stupid ideas like crawling through the rain drainage tunnel, building a bonfire on campus (Im in college), or constructing a raft out of small intertubes and duct tape and rowing it down the river. That said, I won't do either really. When Im stuck with these types of people I just start to think about all of the downside and whether I should stay because I'm sort of their friend or leave because its pointless and not fun for me. I then start worrying about my social progress and wondering how I ended up stuck with a bunch of guys who think walking through a wet tunnel and getting pneumonia is fun. If I don't see how an activity will help me progress, I just won't do it.

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    I was absolutely like ^^^ the last couple of posts when I was in my late teens and early twenties. I was a pretty serious person.


    Now I kind of just... do things with people who invite me places and I don't mind the partying as much. Can be fun when I actually have time to.

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    Over the years, I've come to think about the PoLR as just a reflection of your creative function, in a somewhat practical / down to earth fashion, meaning: humans have a limited amount of time they wish to allocate among differing activities, and if you focus on a specific facet of human life you're going to miss developing "skills" in its opposite facet.
    So if you very much focus your life on completing a series of urgent tasks in a timely fashion with the highest amount of skillfulness (which I associated with Se creative, and perhaps sometimes Si creative), you won't have time to develop a constructive theoretical framework on how to apply existing methods to craft a new idea (which I associate with Ne creative, and perhaps partially with Ni). And if you're focussing your life on completing urgent tasks in a timely fashion, you may want to know how to do it as quickly as possible and in a way which may grant medium-to-long term success, I guess.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I often enjoy impulsive ideas and spontaneity when it comes to fun stuff in free time. I only get overwhelmed when they conflict too much with what I already had in mind or they are in regards to more serious life choices. Or the ambiguity of something like "maybe I'll go bowling with you Saturday, I'll call you and let you know Friday". .i might need to know by Wednesday cuz I'll be at the bowling shoes store or something lol I know people have lives so I try to hide my impatience unless this happens a lot. But it makes me feel anxious

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Yeah, I can't do parties or large get-togethers for too long without feeling like I'm wasting my time. Close friends or family on a holiday is fine though.

    Part of it is social anxiety, and another part of it is just not seeing the use of it from a long-term perspective. No genuine bonds are being formed or strengthened, I'm not actually enjoying this, nothing's being gained, none of this matters. It's pointless self-indulgence. A distraction. I could be working on my resume, applying for jobs, finishing the book I'm reading, catching up on my homework, etc.
    I relate to this, but I enjoy these situations a lot more now I have control over my anxiety. It's a cliche, but you get from these situations what you choose to. The best way to tackle social anxiety is to put yourself out there and just talk to people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neuralia View Post
    Yeah I agree. It's virtually the same for me. I'm slightly better with parties than when my SEI friend comes up with stupid ideas like crawling through the rain drainage tunnel, building a bonfire on campus (Im in college), or constructing a raft out of small intertubes and duct tape and rowing it down the river. That said, I won't do either really. When Im stuck with these types of people I just start to think about all of the downside and whether I should stay because I'm sort of their friend or leave because its pointless and not fun for me. I then start worrying about my social progress and wondering how I ended up stuck with a bunch of guys who think walking through a wet tunnel and getting pneumonia is fun. If I don't see how an activity will help me progress, I just won't do it.
    This made me laugh. I have (had) friends like this, who have to turn everything into something stupid and irresponsible (but not actually in any way daring) to prove how brave and "manly" they are. I bet they shame you for not taking part, and all that negative shit? Fuck them.

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