Who do we know

[Gilly]

Who do we know that is characteristically sedentary, and even claims to be such?

Who do we know that uses an aggressive "King-of-the-mountain" argument style, but manages to give the appearence of being perfectly calm and phlegmatic while rendering his/her point?

Who do we know who displays characteristic ego "Caregiver" behavior, using life experience to provide insightful and practical advise to whosoever he/she deems to be in need of it?

Who do we know that, time and time again, even by the Russian Vilnius socionists, has been VI'd as an introvert, yet claims to be an extrovert?

Who do we know that exhibits characteristic irrational behavior while justifying it with ?

And...is this expression at all familiar?

[Nessy]

It's me.



...though, I don't look like this guy so much.

[FDG]

you don't look like him gilly

[Gilly]

This thread isn't about me. :wink:

[Expat]

You mean Joy? As ? If that is what you mean, it fits a few things that I had observed but I'm not sure that it explains everything.

[Gilly]

You mean Joy? As ? If that is what you mean, it fits a few things that I had observed but I'm not sure that it explains everything.

I don't think it explains everything. But I think it explains more than anything we can expect, given her scenario. And I think it touches on pieces of her personality that have stayed constant, and are more integral than the ones that are often used to type her. That's just my sense, though.

[Joy]

Who do we know that is characteristically sedentary, and even claims to be such?

Who do we know that uses an aggressive "King-of-the-mountain" argument style, but manages to give the appearence of being perfectly calm and phlegmatic while rendering his/her point?

Who do we know who displays characteristic ego "Caregiver" behavior, using life experience to provide insightful and practical advise to whosoever he/she deems to be in need of it?

Who do we know that, time and time again, even by the Russian Vilnius socionists, has been VI'd as an introvert, yet claims to be an extrovert?

Who do we know that exhibits characteristic irrational behavior while justifying it with ?

And...is this expression at all familiar?

Funny stuff. ISTp is certainly more likely than ENTp.

The thing you're mistaking for is a combination of being a know it all as well as obligatory Fe and/or some sort of Fi, I think...

I doubt Rocky will accept me as an ISTp... and when did the russians say I'm an introvert? In my video VI sessions people say I lack Fe more often than that I "VI as an introvert"...

Anyways, INTp is much more likely than ISTp, but I still think it's less likey than ENTj or ESFp (no, I don't think I'm an ESFp), but I have considered INTp lately due to my strong distaste for Fe and a few comments about it. It would be so funny if I was INTp. Too bad there's no answer sheet. I get along okay with my ESFj boss for the most part, but the Fe does irritate me a lot. The Si does too.

My being an IxTp wouldn't explain my affinity for introverts though... I've always been attracted to introversion. They let me talk as much as I want. Plus I asked ishy if she thinks INTp is a possibility for me and laughed and said no... I think she thinks that ESFp is the only ethical type I could be, and I think that's what she thinks I am... haven't talked to her in a while though

Do I look like any of these women? you guys should VI me via webcam.

[Joy]

I think this is a pretty natural face for me

[discojoe]

This topic fails.

Joy never stops talking and she has no .

[Slacker]

You see like the opposite of what I see. I see and though Joy has said I might be confusing with and she might very well be right.

But I think she has rather than

[Joy]

I agree

Se > Si
Te > Ti
Ni > Ne

[implied]

i actually thought you were talking about Expat, minus the v.i.

[Creepy-pokeball]

This is disturbing because you guys make me think of Joy far more than I ever want to. Focusing on one person for too long is kinda creepy

[Expat]

i actually thought you were talking about Expat, minus the v.i.

Where do I show "characteristic irrational behavior"?

[Joy]

lol

I think it would be easier for people to come to a personal opinion on what my type is if they talk to me on yahoo. And I want more VI suggestions.

[implied]

lol! you don't. the part sounds just like you, though!

[Gilly]

The reason I suggest Si>Se/Si>Ni is, for one, that I see alot of stereotypically "caregiver" behavior in Joy (as I mentioned) that reminds me infinitely of my ESTj mother. The constant giving of practical life advice, the desire to, in a way, take people in "under her wing" is something that I attribute to in the ego. Granted, it's perfectly possible that anyone could exhibit this kind of behavior, and it's not entirely dependant on type (obviously; we all use every function to some extent), but I think it's something to take into serious consideration when you look at the propensities for these kinds of things among type.

The other aspect of stereotypically dominant behavior that I see in Joy is the characteristic "lazybones" persona that goes along with the innate requirement for comfort attributed to as a leading function. Now don't get me wrong, I don't see Joy as "lazy" in the business sense; the reverse is true, if you listen to her talk about her work But this general attitude is definitely a part of her persona; I think we've all seen it when it comes to Joy talking about herself.

Outside of what I see as a case for dominance in and of itself, I see many other stereotypically ISTp traits in Joy. For example, the blatant "don't give a fuck"/"whatever" attitude that is so classically ISTp is something that ANYONE can see in Joy. Whether it's really true of her or not is irrelevant; it's the projection of that particular attitude that is "so ISTp," IMO.

And to top it all off, it just makes sense! Think about it: it's the perfect mixture of ALL of the types Joy has ever seen herself as:

1. ISTp and ENTp are two types that share alot of commonly perceived traits, IMO
2. /"Caregiver" attitude from ISFp
3. from ENTj
4. ESFp - SP temperment

I dunno. It makes sense to me, and it's what I've come to see her as. I'm not insisting on anything, but at least it's something to consider

Oh, and Joy, the first response to your type thread in the Russian forum was:

Introvert

[Joy]

wow, that was a well thought out and well written answer

I do think I tend to do that "caregiver" thing at times... it's never healthy though. Much of that type of stuff in my past has been in unhealthy friendships and relationships, often codependent. While it is a conscious function for me, it's difficult for me to do it in a healthy way. It's a constant struggle to find balance and I can't really think of a time it's ever really worked out well for me.

The "lazybones" also doesn't work out well for me... I am generally too lazy (read: depressed/ill) or I work too hard and push my body too far... I've become ill many times as a result. I am not good at caring for my physical body.

also, from http://socionics.us/theory/ext_int.shtml on extroversion:

# liven up... when they have someone to give their energy and attention to
# like to involve others and don't appreciate others trying to involve them

that is very much me!

[Creepy-aurora_faerie]

I don't think Joy is ISTp.

I havn't been around her THAT much, but enough to tell she is talkative. I'm really talkative too, but sometimes its when I feel like their is an awkward silence, which is why I like Extroverts because I never feel like I HAVE to talk.

But I do like to talk, mainly when intoxicated in some sort of way, and sometimes when I'm just in a really really good mood.

Joy also doesn't seem to have her natural expression on when on the web cam, she's a little more smiley in person, at least she was during the time I spent with her.

As soon as I visit for more than 2 days with her -_-, I'll be able to have a more reliable opinon I guess.

[Joy]

in all fairness... I was exceptionally happy while in Florida

[Joy]

In all fairness... ISTp is a hell of a lot more likely that I'm ISTp than ENTp.

[Expat]

I think Gilligan made a very good case taking into account all the available information. I'm not saying that I think now that Joy is ISTp, I do say that the case he put together is very good.

This reminds us of something we all actually already know -- Socionics is a model. It does not reflect reality perfectly. So it should be no surprise that there are individuals that are more difficult to fit into a type than others.

Joy seems to be talkative while in the presence of people she likes and trusts (including people of this forum, btw).