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Thread: Please help me nail down my right type! (Video and Questionnaire included for your typing pleasure)

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    Post Please help me nail down my right type! (Video and Questionnaire included for your typing pleasure)

    Hi socionists! I have broken my lurker status and finally decided to make an account. I am a 21-year-old man who has been trying to determine his socionics type for several months now, and I decided to do this questionnaire to get some perspectives. I have also included a video in which I answer some completely unrelated questions so you can get an idea of how I appear in general . I would greatly appreciate and value your feedback.
    I am a MBTI INFJ 5w4 with the 529 tritype. I am half Danish & half Ghanaian, but have lived in Denmark my entire life. I currently study psychology at Copenhagen University.


    1. What is beauty? What is love?

    Beauty is subjective. Something that exists beyond objective criteria and often cannot be clearly rationalised or explained. It is not magical though, simply a value that varies between individuals.
    Love for me is the feeling of a deep connection and understanding. In the sense that someone can accept you for who you are under any circumstances. While they may not be similar, they can understand where you are coming from and accept your point of view. This resulting in a great mutual admiration and respect. I am against the gender norms and biases for how to approach love. I don’t think there should be any kind of norms for what roles the different individuals should play, and it should be left up to the individual and their dynamics how it should be expressed.
    In terms of what love consists of though, it’s simply a chemical reaction. While I don’t know/care about the details of what chemicals interact with each other, I see nothing spiritual or magical in love. It is simply a deep feeling.

    2. What are your most important values?
    Individuality, intelligence, wisdom, compassion, understanding, critical thinking, depth, acceptance.

    3. Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
    I am an atheist, and have been so since I was 17. I was raised Christian by my mother, who is a very accepting and tolerant priest that has always allowed me to shape my own beliefs and find my own place in the world.
    I was going through a bad period in my life, and didn’t feel any comfort from religious thoughts any more. I likewise also questioned how a benevolent deity can allow a world as entropic as ours, thinking primarily about starving children being “born to die” and he like. This backed up with scientific/philosophical research made me question and afterwards dismiss my beliefs.

    While I am not spiritual either, I have a very psychological approach to life, which some would classify as a belief system of sorts

    4. Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
    War to me seems like an outdated construct. Something that should be avoided at all cost, and really has little place in our modern society. The same goes for the military.
    However I do see the necessity of defensive military actions, and know that it is sometimes the only rational solution. I am against most kinds of proactive military actions though, which is strongly related to my beliefs of cultural relativism (Which I wont get more in depth with here, since I don’t want to make it very political).

    I currently view power very much like Foucault. A necessary dynamic of any society, yet at the same time something that requires active regulation to avoid being oppressive. And something that is also VERY dangerous of implicit.
    In my ideal society, I would advocate a specialised form of power to individuals. Basically, an individual who held a great deal of knowledge about a field (ie. economics) should have more power inside that field is he/she would have a better and more nuanced background from which the person could make decisions about that given field. However I would generally be against any sort of power monopole (Power should not extend beyond the field of their specialisation) and those in power should be questioned and expected to be able to deliver a good explanation of their practices and be held responsible for them. Each individual has equal worth, but that doesn’t mean that they have an equal skillset.

    5. What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
    Philosophy, Psychology, problems of the world and our society, how the world should be, who I am/who my friends are (In terms of how they work). Other peoples personal problems and my advice on how they should be solved.

    Interests are:
    · PSYCHOLOGY (main one): I am very interested in understanding how people work and why they do as they do. I have a natural talent for this as well. I tend to gravitate towards existential psychology and social constructionism. Cognitive psychogy and neuropsychology doesn’t interest me that much.
    · Philosophy: I also want to understand the world, it’s dynamics and what lies beneath the surface and discuss this. I am strongly inspired by Sartre and Foucault in my views and believes.
    · Music: I simply love music. I am a singer in a symphonic death metal band. I also play the bass.
    · History/antopology: Cultures and cultural dynamics (Apparently dynamic is my word of the day...) interest me a lot. So does ancient civilisations.
    · Religion: I am very interested in the old mythologies. The greek mythology seems like a dream world to me. I also like to study modern religions and they effects on society though.
    · Weight lifting/training: I like working out and improving myself.

    6. Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
    Nope. I do try to stay healthy though, but am in no ways obsessed with it. I do work out and eat well, but only because I rationally know I have to.
    I don’t really feel my bodily needs that much and could probably go a whole day or two without eating. I also suffer from VERY severe insomnia.

    7. What do you think of daily chores?
    They bore me beyond belief. Have a very hard time getting them done.

    8. Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
    Books (Currently don’t read that much in my spare time, since I spend all my time reading when studying):
    A song of fire and ice (The whole series)
    Lord of the Rings
    Existentialism is a humanism

    Films:
    Lord of the rings trilogy
    District 9
    Fight Club
    Pirates of the Carribean: Curse of the Black Pearl

    Tv series:
    Game of Thrones (Favourite media EVER!)
    Sherlock
    Vikings
    First season of Spartacus (HATE the rest of the seasons with a passion, especially the last)


    9. What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
    I never really cry, I feel like I am being very unconstructive when doing so, and that I am simply feel bad for myself instead of trying to solve the actual issue at hand. In this year and the last, I can only think of 2 times where I have cried. The first was out of joy because I had met the African part of my family for the first time, and had manged to develop a good relationship with my father. The second is quite personal, but related to my dreams potentially being in danger of crashing.

    What makes me smile is positive interactions with my friends, getting really excited about some theory that fit my views, achieving my goals, suddenly remembering/imagining a funny episode or idea, compliments, Absurd/morbid/dry humour, songs that I like […].

    10. Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
    Usually in my room. I have a quite private home sphere, and need a room that is mine alone. A room where I feel that I am in control of everything and can do what I want.

    11. What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
    My unpracticalness definitely has to be my weakness. Cleaning my room requires the same strength for me as running a marathon does for others. I am often late. I also work very much in accordance to my own motivation, and am very bad at motivating myself to do stuff I don’t see any value in, even though it may be necessary. While I love discussions and debates, I really have a hard time emotionally hurting people, even when it is needed. I do sometimes also feel like I have a very flexible personality, and while It feels stable to me, I can have a hard time pointing out a difference between what I am, and what I currently value and want to be.

    12. What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    My insight into people and intuitive understanding of how they work. My philosophical depth and abstract comprehension of concepts. My intelligence, critical mind and ability to see cases beyond what their surface appearance implies. My openness to different people and personalities. My ability to pursue my dreams and achieve them. My ability to socially adapt to a situation and get along with a huge variety of people and mindsets.

    13. In what areas of your life would you like help?
    Please save me from the meaningless practical day-to-day chores!

    14. Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    I fear being that very much as I naturally crave for progression. I have been so during a depression, but I cannot completely outline the causes for it. But it is usually something I will try to prevent.

    15. What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
    This is very hard for me to answer, since I enjoy a wide degree of qualities. Reflection, intelligence and depth are among the highest though. A critical and honest perspective and expression of self.
    So I basically dislike shallowness, conformism, generalisations, and superficiality. But even so I can get along with people who display these traits if I wish to.

    16. How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
    I don’t believe in love at first sights, soulmates or anything similar to that. I think love and sex should be freely defined by individuals how they want to, and am (as previously mentioned) very much against any norms or regulations on this area (With some obvious exceptions though, such as pedophilia for instance), as it’s both personal and subjective. I am personally all for free casual sex detached from love if people are mature enough to understand what they are doing. So yeah, I’m advocating for A LOT of individual freedom on this area. Sex and love is what you make it out to be. Nothing more, and nothing less.

    17. If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    Teach the child to think and reflect critically about everything, and developed nuanced personal perspectives on different issues. Give the child a lot of freedom and trust from a fairly early age, so that it’ll learn to think for itself and be responsible for it’s own life and actions. All while having me as a dependable support to fall back on if needed.

    18. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
    Inward belief. “Hah! That’s wrong for the following x reasons. Wonder why they would think that?” (Emphasis on the latter sentence).

    Outward reaction: “Hm…. Why would you say that?”, “Really, I actually think that […]”, “I kinda disagree with that since […]”. –Hopefully inspiring a constructive friendly discussion that both of us can learn from. Very often, I will just ask to gather information and understand his or her mind process though, without actually brining my own beliefs and opinions into it.

    19. Describe your relationship to society. How do you see people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    I am very critical of society, and don’t think it works like it should be working. I see the norms that indirectly dictate our behaviour as huge problems, since we tend to blindly accept and follow them without asking questions about them because they “seem natural”.
    I see people as individuals. I think they should all be understood subjectively in their context. I am a philosophical idealist, and don’t believe in any grand positivistic theories that classify and generalise “Human nature”. We are all a production of our culture and our context, and we construct our society and reality interpersonally.

    20. How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
    I am not that critical among my friends, and tend to choose people I simply naturally get along with. My behaviour tends to vary and adjust depending on what friend I am talking to, and I will implicitly look for similarities between the person and myself I am talking to match his or her disposition and behaviour.

    21. How do you behave around strangers?
    A bit more shy and reserved than among friends. Usually stretching myself more to find similarities and points of relation. It depends a ot on their personality though, and among some I will instinctively and naturally feel comfortable and talk a lot, whereas I can be somewhat awkward among others.
    Last edited by SSAJacobsen; 03-28-2014 at 03:29 PM.

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    Aww, no replies or impressions yet?
    You don't HAVE to watch the entire video to type me, it was sorta meant as bonus. Also, feel free to ask me any questions if something is unclear or you need more info.

    So yeah, bump.

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    maybe you are infp
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by severina View Post
    maybe you are infp
    Hmmm, I have considered the type, but relate really badly to the beta quadra. Do I come off as an IEI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Hmmm, I have considered the type, but relate really badly to the beta quadra. Do I come off as an IEI?
    yes dunno
    not all ieis are bitches of stronger betas although most of them are
    guess i have to watch that vid
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by severina View Post
    yes dunno
    not all ieis are bitches of stronger betas although most of them are
    guess i have to watch that vid
    It's quite long and forces you to bear with my silly accent as well though. But if I had to comment on the NiFe beta values:


    • Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
      -This actually seems okay.
    • Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
      -I dislike this, as I don't just want affirmation in my beliefs. I value diversity a lot, and love friendly constructive discussions of beliefs as well as nuanced questioning of them. I also very rarely get openly passionate about my beliefs, as I try to keep personal emotions out of debates to remain more objective. In fact, the more I disagree, the more cold and detached I become.
      I can be quite inspired by people displaying this behaviour though, like an EIE lecturer whom I ended up regarding as a hero.
    • Beta types tend to give more value to feelings when they are demonstrated with clear emotional expression, and tend to increase the level of their own emotional expression in order to get a reaction from other people.
      -Nope. I am not that expressive, even though I can be warm.
    • Beta types tend to describe personal views of special meaning with "poetic" or "dramatic" expressions and language.
      -I believe try to describe my views in a more detached manner usually, and only become dramatic if it's something I feel strongly about.
    • Beta types are often deeply concerned about social issues and the direction the world is heading. They believe that apathy is a significant cause of societal problems, and work to fight against it.
      -That may be true for me, to some degree at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Do I come off as an IEI?
    No. You come off as EII.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    No. You come off as EII.
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on why that is?

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    SSAJacobsen, I only watched the beginning part of your video so far, but wanted to recommend that if how MBTI was used for stereotypes and things unrelated to type bothered you so much (the passion!! ) then run...run away from this forum, far and fast. Seriously. Cuz those things you mentioned that you hated about mbti, you'll run into the same here. (But then if you've been lurking, you already know that. *sigh* Masochists with hope....)
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on why that is?
    I don't have much time right now, but the basic idea is the following. The focus in your writing is on understating people, their deeper feelings, behavior and potential, on relationships and ethics (Fi). You're theoretical (Ne), psychology over philosophy (loosely Ne > Ni), skeptical of hierarchies concerning social power and status (Se), and you want/try to be as open-minded and accepting (of diversity, multiple POVs, etc.) as possible (Ne). You express your biggest weakness to be practicality (in a consistent Te way) and welcome assistance in this area. I didn't watch the video, though I may see it later.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    It's quite long and forces you to bear with my silly accent as well though. But if I had to comment on the NiFe beta values:


    • Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
      -This actually seems okay.
    • Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
      -I dislike this, as I don't just want affirmation in my beliefs. I value diversity a lot, and love friendly constructive discussions of beliefs as well as nuanced questioning of them. I also very rarely get openly passionate about my beliefs, as I try to keep personal emotions out of debates to remain more objective. In fact, the more I disagree, the more cold and detached I become.
      I can be quite inspired by people displaying this behaviour though, like an EIE lecturer whom I ended up regarding as a hero.
    • Beta types tend to give more value to feelings when they are demonstrated with clear emotional expression, and tend to increase the level of their own emotional expression in order to get a reaction from other people.
      -Nope. I am not that expressive, even though I can be warm.
    • Beta types tend to describe personal views of special meaning with "poetic" or "dramatic" expressions and language.
      -I believe try to describe my views in a more detached manner usually, and only become dramatic if it's something I feel strongly about.
    • Beta types are often deeply concerned about social issues and the direction the world is heading. They believe that apathy is a significant cause of societal problems, and work to fight against it.
      -That may be true for me, to some degree at least.
    I am going to watch your video in awhile because you did register a couple blips on my IEI detector.
    I relate to the bolded parts and I am sure of my type. I also relate to a lot of what you say in your questionnaire though I word things differently. I feel IEI's are more open to a diverse group than most other types. I would rather be in a mixed group anyway to experience lots of different personalities. In person I am a bit more controlled when giving my perspective than I am here.

    and this I relate to the most and I have hung out with musicians of all genres and any type of death metal is so Beta, to me. A lot of bands feel beta to me and there is an, often unspoken, hierarchy that is respected. Usually the singer and lead guitarists are at the top. It's just how it is, usually and there is also an air of aristocracy in those circles. I have been an "insider" on the music scene and I know how they talk about "outsiders". I don't see anything in what you say that would make you not beta.

    · Music: I simply love music. I am a singer in a symphonic death metal band. I also play the bass.
    On this part I completely agree with Severina
    not all ieis are bitches of stronger betas
    Welcome if I haven't said it in another thread.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I don't have much time right now, but the basic idea is the following. The focus in your writing is on understating people, their deeper feelings, behavior and potential, on relationships and ethics (Fi). You're theoretical (Ne), psychology over philosophy (loosely Ne > Ni), skeptical of hierarchies concerning social power and status (Se), and you want/try to be as open-minded and accepting (of diversity, multiple POVs, etc.) as possible (Ne). You express your biggest weakness to be practicality (in a consistent Te way) and welcome assistance in this area. I didn't watch the video, though I may see it later.
    Thank you! Just the kind of reply I have been looking for.
    What you are saying really makes a lot of sense, and is completely true (Though Philosphy and psychology are almost 50/50 for me). The EII descriptions in general are kind hit/miss for me though. Some (Like the one on sociotype.com) seem completely spot on, whereas others (Usually the ones stretching the harsh ethical judgements and the logical weakness) don't describe me at all. I would view myself as somewhat of a moral relativist who naturally seeks to understand behaviour rather than judging it. And logic in it's pure form is something I am very capable of. Rationally and logically defending and explaining my beliefs is natural to me. I also love deconstructing arguments in general, in a rethoric sense.


    Aylen: Ahh, I see. Very interesting! For some reason, I had never considered a band to be a beta enviroment, though it doesn make sense when thinking about it. I obviously love band enviroments and most of my friends are musicians. I even made a video back in the day (I was visually typed LII) about finding it difficult to accept having Se as my PoLR, since I really valued the playful aggression that exists in the metal scene (Which seems very Se to me), and didn't react negatively to it at all. A lot of my friends joke with me being the first death metal psychologist, because I have this calm, nice and accepting demeanor, but at the same time, love brutal music, going to concerts and losing myself in the atmosphere.
    Perhaps I should reconsider how I view that quadra and the type...
    Last edited by SSAJacobsen; 04-02-2014 at 03:50 AM.

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    Sorry I got distracted and didn't see video yet but I will watch it tonight.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Watched first half of the video, not sure. You seem quite mellow and some things you say might suggest Ti > Te valuing. And you're not alpha.

    Have you taken some tests?

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/#The-...Socionics-Test
    http://www.socionictest.net/Test.aspx
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Sorry I got distracted and didn't see video yet but I will watch it tonight.
    Ahh sure, no problem at all. Very curious to hear what you think based on it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Watched first half of the video, not sure. You seem quite mellow and some things you say might suggest Ti > Te valuing. And you're not alpha.

    Have you taken some tests?

    http://www.sociotype.com/tests/#The-...Socionics-Test
    http://www.socionictest.net/Test.aspx
    I think that the video really captures how I come off in a natural and comfortable setting. It is a pretty good example of how I interact. Interesting that you say that you are sure that I am not an Alpha, since I have been video typed that before (Based on other videos though).

    I honestly think I have tried every test there is, several times in fact. And I have gotten many different results.
    I am very unreliable when it comes to personality tests, as I will subconsciously answer what I want to be or relate most to in the current moment, rather than what I generally am. I think it's because I understand myself through contexts rather than just having a fixed perspective on how I am and what I value. I will often be able to answer the questions without much difficulty, but I will think of a situation where I displayed the given behaviour, and I am thereby automatically able to justify most answers, since I can easily interepret the questions to fit a currently valued behaviour (Could perhaps point towards a "dynamic" personality?).

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    ISTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    ISTp
    That's certainly a new one. I have a really hard time seeing Si and Te as my lead/creative. I am comepletely unaware to my own bodily sensations, and always test intuitive (My only consistent result in tests). I am all about philosophy, and psychology as well. And not in a practical sence and how it's applied, but very much in a theoretical one. I want to learn and understand.
    I am by no means pragmatic. I am also not really blunt or direct in my wording and expression (Unless I absolutely feel like I need to be), but like to twist the language to best fit the situation without offending anyone.

    I would be VERY interested in hearing what made you think that type though!

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    take a second of me sarinana's Avatar
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    delta NF.
    Sincerely Yours,

    Beyond the clouds. Beyond the sun.

    The Rebel without a cause.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    delta NF.
    What makes you think that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    That's certainly a new one. I have a really hard time seeing Si and Te as my lead/creative. I am comepletely unaware to my own bodily sensations, and always test intuitive (My only consistent result in tests). I am all about philosophy, and psychology as well. And not in a practical sence and how it's applied, but very much in a theoretical one. I want to learn and understand.
    I am by no means pragmatic. I am also not really blunt or direct in my wording and expression (Unless I absolutely feel like I need to be), but like to twist the language to best fit the situation without offending anyone.

    I would be VERY interested in hearing what made you think that type though!
    Maybe your avatar.

    Edit: SLI is my super-ego and I don't feel that at all.

    your concept of love will probably change at some point as well. I know mine has since I was 21 so given your age I didn't weigh that in. Still watching.

    I kept laughing at "the passion is real!" and have to start over! I have to do this tomorrow when I'm not tired.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-05-2014 at 06:04 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    That's certainly a new one. I have a really hard time seeing Si and Te as my lead/creative. I am comepletely unaware to my own bodily sensations, and always test intuitive (My only consistent result in tests). I am all about philosophy, and psychology as well. And not in a practical sence and how it's applied, but very much in a theoretical one. I want to learn and understand.
    I am by no means pragmatic. I am also not really blunt or direct in my wording and expression (Unless I absolutely feel like I need to be), but like to twist the language to best fit the situation without offending anyone.

    I would be VERY interested in hearing what made you think that type though!
    Well we both agree that you are an introvert. Which is right on as you emphasize and focus on a lot of individual aspects and perspectives rather than universal or social observations.

    Your pragmatic sense comes from your interpretation of things like "love". Love to most feeler types is a connection, sometimes spiritual other times relational. You emphasize it being "chemical" when you say that "In terms of what love consists of though, it’s simply a chemical reaction." This is actually the heart of what Feeler types attribute to love, not only a feeling but sometimes a spiritual, magical connection.

    I believe that you attribute characteristics to functions that don't exist hence you interpret what you equate to things like "people who are into philosophy must be N type" which is incorrect per socionics. You may want to brush up on your knowledge of the functions and what applies in the site that I have placed in my signature. It is a good reference for the functions and what they mean.

    This is also another proof of your pragmatic and logical approach to thought "However I do see the necessity of defensive military actions, and know that it is sometimes the only rational solution. I am against most kinds of proactive military actions though, which is strongly related to my beliefs of cultural relativism (Which I wont get more in depth with here, since I don’t want to make it very political)."

    Your descriptions are more dynamic than static. By far I see more Te (observations of logic of action).

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Well we both agree that you are an introvert. Which is right on as you emphasize and focus on a lot of individual aspects and perspectives rather than universal or social observations.

    Your pragmatic sense comes from your interpretation of things like "love". Love to most feeler types is a connection, sometimes spiritual other times relational. You emphasize it being "chemical" when you say that "In terms of what love consists of though, it’s simply a chemical reaction." This is actually the heart of what Feeler types attribute to love, not only a feeling but sometimes a spiritual, magical connection.

    I believe that you attribute characteristics to functions that don't exist hence you interpret what you equate to things like "people who are into philosophy must be N type" which is incorrect per socionics. You may want to brush up on your knowledge of the functions and what applies in the site that I have placed in my signature. It is a good reference for the functions and what they mean.
    Well, I'm gonna go ahead and ask if you are not doing the same thing by saying that love is magical to all feelers? Even something as relevant as love, or spirituality, has to be relative to the functions you use. It's not what the value is itself, but how it manifests in the person right?
    For me, nothing is magical and nothing is spiritual. But that doesn't mean that nothing carries a deeper meaning. It might even be a cultural difference here, in terms of what explanations are prefered and valued. When I listen to music for instance, I get transported into another world. I get completely lost in it and lose all connection to the real world. I imagine abstract scenarious and situations in my head. I disconnect/dismiss the world and all its meaningless troubles. But if you were to ask me what was happening, it's true that I wouldn't say it was something magical. It is probably just some simple scientific reaction in my head. But that reaction in itself is meaningless to me (Just like the reaction behind love is meaningless), its simply what lies in the core of it. What it produces for me, and how that is produced, matters a lot more than what it actually is.

    The thing I wanted to stretch with mentioning psychology and philosophy, was more that I did not read it primarily for practical applications. I don't care how I can earn money from it, where it is most useful or something similar. The meaning and the core for me is understanding the theories, and the idea and thought that lies behind them. I do this to get better tools to understand people and the idea/thoughts that lies behind what they do. I don't care about profit, I care about what holds meaning and value to me.

    All this said, I do see several components of the description in your site that I relate to. Listening to the right music and feeling at one with myself for example. And after reading the link to wikisocions description of the type, I can defintiely see parts of myself in that one as well, a lot more than I anticipated in fact. But at the same time, I have to say that there is much I don't see in myself either. The right clothes, the right food? Completely meaningless/irellevant to me. I'd much rather spend my day thinking about stuff. It's currently 14:04 in Denmark, yet I haven't even eaten breakfast yet, because I am much more interested in writing this argument. At first I didn't notice my hunger at all (I can go for a day without eating). Now I am simply ignoring it, because I am in the middle of something that is important to me. I am also too lazy to get up and actually start making the food, I just want the process to be over with, so I can come back to doing more interesting stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    This is also another proof of your pragmatic and logical approach to thought "However I do see the necessity of defensive military actions, and know that it is sometimes the only rational solution. I am against most kinds of proactive military actions though, which is strongly related to my beliefs of cultural relativism (Which I wont get more in depth with here, since I don’t want to make it very political)."

    Your descriptions are more dynamic than static. By far I see more Te (observations of logic of action).
    This is a point I cannot argue with, as that is certainly my belief. I would assume that most people agreed on it though, since it's really only in extreme cases I would support any kind of military action, and even then I don't know if I would support it or rather just view it as a "neccesary evil" (Probably the latter). I don't know how many would argue against defensive actions if their country was under direct attack.


    I may seem overly dismissive of the type. That is not my intention. I simply doubt that it is the right type for me, as it is pretty much a 180 from what I have otherwise been typed as, and so have to point out what doesn't make sense to me, or what I have trouble relating to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    I honestly think I have tried every test there is, several times in fact. And I have gotten many different results.
    I am very unreliable when it comes to personality tests, as I will subconsciously answer what I want to be or relate most to in the current moment, rather than what I generally am. I think it's because I understand myself through contexts rather than just having a fixed perspective on how I am and what I value. I will often be able to answer the questions without much difficulty, but I will think of a situation where I displayed the given behaviour, and I am thereby automatically able to justify most answers, since I can easily interepret the questions to fit a currently valued behaviour (Could perhaps point towards a "dynamic" personality?).
    I understand. But let me put it this way. Take the 2 tests I pointed out and post your results here. Feel free to ascribe your own context where none is provided.

    Then, for more accurate assessment, try to find Hugo's test (link to a working version should be somewhere on this forum), post those results, and elaborate on your answers if you want.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    your avatar has my endorse sanctionment
    Last edited by krieger; 04-05-2014 at 09:30 PM.

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    The way you speak, roll your eyes when thinking, your sense of humor and your answers are so similar to mine that I cannot be objective. I have tested INFJ on all the MBTI tests for years. I want to stamp you IEI but I will leave this to others. EII and IEI are very similar to me but I was able to see what made me more different than EII than similar and was able to settle on my type, which is no longer up for analysis as far as I am concerned.

     
    I don't know why but I want to post what I just read elsewhere. http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-...problem-3.html

    More specifically, INFJs’ inner child can get very excited about the arts and culture. Their Ni, Fe, and Se functions love relishing and experiencing fine meals, music, productions, and art. There is something very magical for INFJs about seeing the marriage of S and N through these media, which can confer a deep sense of fullness, wholeness, and joy. What makes these experiences even better for INFJs is having someone to share and celebrate them with. And since their Feeling function is extraverted, they look for their partner to join them in their excitement, making such experiences all the richer.

    Since INTPs are neither N dominants nor Feelers, their interest in arts and culture cannot match the INFJs’, especially if not raised in an artsy family. Rather, INTPs’ interests tend to be more conceptual and utility-focused. And while Fe is a part of INTPs’ functional stack, its inferior position makes INTPs far less outwardly celebrative and expressive. Moreover, INTPs often get excited about different things than INFJs. While INFJs may find pure joy in a fine meal or performance, INTPs are most excited by new ideas, possibilities, or challenges. (This Personality Junkie Post is continued on the next page.)


    Others report feelings of disembodiment. The fact is that many INFJs (and INTJs) seem to experience the world and their bodies differently than other types do. It is therefore not uncommon for INFJs or others to occasionally question their sanity.

    While INFJS are deeply theoretical, they don’t build their theories by consciously assembling facts in the way that Thinking or Sensing types might. Rather, INFJs see general connections and patterns by way of their Intuition; they experience everything as interconnected. For INFJs, discovering truth involves getting a better handle on the nature of this connectedness by discerning universal laws and patterns


    I want to adopt your, "THE PASSION IS REAL!" as my new motto. I could feel that it was from your video even though you weren't so outwardly passionate. My passion is outwardly restrained mostly but I feel it very deeply, for sure. I think you already know your type on a deeper level. Just gotta dig for it and maybe reevaluate some preconceived ideas. I am always discovering things to be passionate about. Maybe what I am saying will make no sense at all or maybe it will spark something. I wish you a speedy typing but only if you wish it for yourself. The thrill for me was discovering how each function manifested in my life and how this leads to certainty. I appreciated all the feedback I received along the way but in the end I made the choice for myself.

    Last edited by Aylen; 04-06-2014 at 01:17 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I understand. But let me put it this way. Take the 2 tests I pointed out and post your results here. Feel free to ascribe your own context where none is provided.

    Then, for more accurate assessment, try to find Hugo's test (link to a working version should be somewhere on this forum), post those results, and elaborate on your answers if you want.
    Sure, will do. I have taken the first test a bunch of times before. I have tested EII, LII once, IEI & ILE from what I can remember. I have taken the second test twice, but I do not remember my results.
    Got: http://www.sociotype.com/tests/result/ost/13273
    Curiously, I took the test again afterwards and got this result (Those sliders...): http://www.sociotype.com/tests/result/ost/13282

    I got the following result in the other test (Today is an EII-day for me it seems):
    INFJ(Dostoyevsky) - 270
    INTJ(Robespierre) - 265
    INFP(Yesenin) - 225


    Hugos test was very short and easy to answer for me as I had a clear preference in most of the questions asked, so I don't really feel the need to elaborate on those. It gave me:
    Your proposed types are:



    INFp, N subtype

    OR


    INFj, N subtype

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    Those sliders...bane of my existence. hah Once I got the hang of it though my results were consistent. I took the Mizami test. I think I liked that one.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Seems like you always score high on Ne, and you seem like too much of a stubborn pothead to be anything but an NF.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Hugos test was very short and easy to answer for me as I had a clear preference in most of the questions asked, so I don't really feel the need to elaborate on those.
    Can you list your answers, please?

    Then, could you try picking one from the following?


    That is manifested as a skepticism and dislike for basing your beliefs, arguments, and actions on external sources of information. For instance, this individual will rather trust the expertise of someone who seems to have hands-on experience, even if limited, than of someone who demonstrates to have read many books on the same subject. They will base their opinions and views on their own personal insights and be, again, skeptical of "second-hand" factual information that contradicts it. "Don't trust everything you read" is a typical sneer of this function, especially when applied to sources of information otherwise seen as neutral and reliable, such as encyclopedias and handbooks.

    Another manifestation is a dislike for dealing with issues involving efficiency, productivity, and factual accuracy of statements made; statements are made according to input from other functions, not from double-checks against external facts which are seen as of lesser relevance to the issue at hand. Types with this function lack confidence in their ability to find relevant information in outside sources.

    The individual is attracted to people seen as knowledgeable, as well as truthful and willing to share that knowledge, in matters seen as interesting and useful to the individual towards achieving productivity and efficiency. Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual; facts and explanations, not answers limited to the conclusions. For the same reason, the individual avoids people who are inclined to give out unreliable or simply untruthful information.

    The individual tends to neglect to think about the productivity of his actions and unconsciously relies on others to give him directions and advice about the best, most productive ways of doing things. He has difficulties measuring how much work he has done, whether it is sufficient, and how much it is actually worth. The individual admires people who are aware of the productivity of their actions and are always trying to do something rational and worthwhile.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    P.S. Aylen is in love with you, in case you hadn't noticed.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    P.S. Aylen is in love with you, in case you hadn't noticed.
    Whaa?? How do you come to this conclusion? I just feel a kindred spirit in him and not the socionics kind of kindred. You got me fucked up, i.e. confused. I certainly didn't mean to give that impression.I just like his energy.

    Edit: I realize I may have taken this wrong as well and it might just be innocent teasing so if it is I apologize for sounding defensive.
    Last edited by Aylen; 04-06-2014 at 11:12 PM. Reason: edit out tmi

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Seems like you always score high on Ne, and you seem like too much of a stubborn pothead to be anything but an NF.



    Can you list your answers, please?

    Then, could you try picking one from the following?
    Okay, decided to do this properly:

    STAGE 1: Answer the following four questions, then answer the last two:

    A. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    I create a system of rules, a system of ranking and organizing things.

    I am more attentive to maintaining relationships with people.

    -I am not an organised person. No matter how much I try to be. I hate rules and restrictions, and while I thrive for logical consistency, I mostly create that in terms of classification for very specific items, rather than following an overall logical structure. I also do hate generalisations so very much!
    And I can often go out of my way to maintain a relatively positive relationship with everyone. I am usually the guy that no one holds anything against, and I am very attentive to how I express my views. I honestly belief every type is represented among my friends.


    B. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    I am more attentive to managing resources efficiently and rationally.

    I am more attentive to people’s moods/emotions and emotional arousability.

    -I am also not a practical person. I am the very opposite of that in fact, even though I would argue that I am quite rational in intellectual matters. However, I am good at influencing people by saying the right things the right way. This is one of the reasons I am regarded as having a psychologist personality. Like typical for my 5-2-9 enneagram tritype (Which really is a great description of me), I try to use my knowledge to come up with meaningful solutions to their problems, while changing/manipulating their mood and mentality in the process.


    C. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    I am more attentive to sensations and what I experience physically.

    I am more attentive to a pattern of events that occur over a span of time. I have a sense of when things might happen.

    -VERY EASY for me to answer. I suck at paying attention to physical sensations, both around and within me. And even if I do get in contact with them, they are very easy for me to ignore.
    I often think about how a specific situation might develop though. While I may not get a completely clear vision of what is going to happen, I certainly always get a single general, somewhat vague idea of how it’s going to play out.

    I am also often advising myself and others to look to the future and see how their situation can be improved. Not sure of that is related though.


    D. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    I am more attentive to the strength/power of people and things.

    I am more attentive to the potential/capability of people and things, which can be developed. I am attentive to inherent possibilities.

    -However, this may be related to my previous answer. I am very good at noticing peoples hidden potential, or helping them notice it themselves and coming to terms with it. I try to view all traits from multiple perspectives and see the positive in the negative (And the negative in the positive). I can often give a very thorough explanation of people, sometimes even making them aware of strengths they didn’t even know they had in the first place.



    a. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    proactive

    relaxed

    -Not much to expand here.


    b. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    mobile and spontaneous

    calm and balanced

    -Was a bit close, but I lean towards the latter based on what other people tell me.


    A. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    Calm and contemplative. Romantic in spirit. You try to escape from negative emotions. Optimistic. As a rule, you avoid conflict situations and want to achieve compromises.

    You are charming and sociable. If you see negative emotions around you in people, you will try to reduce it. You are ready for action in dangerous situations. You possess a sense of humour. You can easily influence people by using intonations in your voice.


    a. Was the above question quite difficult to answer?

    Yes, it was quite difficult

    No, it wasn't that difficult

    -Must admit that I am a bit smitten by the word “comtemplative”. Even so, I certainly relate more to everything in the first box, but calling me an optimist would be a bit of a stretch. Complaining is my #1 favourite activity. Hippies hate me for it, since it conflicts with the "don't worry, be happy" mentality they have, and I guess also may be quite the opposite from what someone with my... prescence and looks (Lets go with that).
    But I suck at acting in the moment. I am not completely dry (Though my humour style is), but most of my humour is very intern and I really don’t come off as a funny person unless you know me well. While I can easily influence people, it is not so much by how the message is being conveyed, but rather what is being said. And I hate actual conflict.


    B. Which one describes you better most of the time?

    You understand people well. You like a small group of friends. Your aim is humanitarian activity. You can be good at providing a service. You know how to make peace between people that are in conflict. You know how to smooth out a painful situation. You know how to create a pleasant situation and comfort in the home.

    You are sincerely religious or adhere to an ethical system. You are restrained and self-disciplined. You are strict in following moral standards. You are also strict on other people if they don’t follow moral standards. In work, you are scrupulous. You are good at talking with people. You are good at giving simple yet efficient advice to them. You make it easy for people to open up with you.


    b. Was the above question quite difficult to answer?

    Yes, it was quite difficult

    No, it wasn't that difficult

    NO DOUBT! I understand people well. I prefer small friendgroups. I work within a humanitarian field. I am good at providing service in terms of helping out. I am also a very good mediator.
    However I don’t restrict my morality to a set code of ethics (And am still an atheist). I can be self-disciplined, but usually take the stance of a moral relativist, and really do not like pushing my beliefs unto others, though I will often discuss them in an open and constructive way. I don’t believe in any sort of objective right or wrong, and think morals should be negotiated rather than simply “felt”.

    In relation to your two quotes, I gotta be honest and say that I don't relate strongly to either. I usually don't have a problem with facts and seemingly objective information. I often have a source or two ready in a debate, to back up my arguments, but am likewise quite capable of deconstructing one if I feel like it seems unreliable or goes against my views or opinions. Having a critical mind and questioning objective knowledge/authorities is one of my main values, but at the same time, I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories, and try to be very rational about what to dismiss and what to accept. I guess this boils down to me wanting to at least hear both sides of the case.
    Using the crisis in Ukraine as an example, I was first told about it by some of my class mates, who seemed very biased against Russia. This made me go investigate the case further from different angles (news sources) when I got home. I had a hard time accepting that the Russians just wanted power over Ukraine because they were "evil and power-hungry" (Seems like a quite one-dimensional view on people/countries, in my opinion). After looking up the several different presented perspectives, and discussing the case with my mother, I finally came to a conclusion about my opinion on the matter. Granted it isn't THAT far from the perspective painted by the media and my friends, but I at least tried to incorporate more sources in my decision making.
    I am not sure which of the two this would lean against though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Whaa?? How do you come to this conclusion? I just feel a kindred spirit in him and not the socionics kind of kindred. You got me fucked up, i.e. confused. I certainly didn't mean to give that impression.I just like his energy.

    Edit: I realize I may have taken this wrong as well and it might just be innocent teasing so if it is I apologize for sounding defensive.
    Don't mind him, he is just anti-Fe'ing (I suspect he may be an ILI). I totally understand where you are coming from in your comments.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    The way you speak, roll your eyes when thinking, your sense of humor and your answers are so similar to mine that I cannot be objective. I have tested INFJ on all the MBTI tests for years. I want to stamp you IEI but I will leave this to others. EII and IEI are very similar to me but I was able to see what made me more different than EII than similar and was able to settle on my type, which is no longer up for analysis as far as I am concerned.

     
    I don't know why but I want to post what I just read elsewhere. http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-...problem-3.html

    More specifically, INFJs’ inner child can get very excited about the arts and culture. Their Ni, Fe, and Se functions love relishing and experiencing fine meals, music, productions, and art. There is something very magical for INFJs about seeing the marriage of S and N through these media, which can confer a deep sense of fullness, wholeness, and joy. What makes these experiences even better for INFJs is having someone to share and celebrate them with. And since their Feeling function is extraverted, they look for their partner to join them in their excitement, making such experiences all the richer.

    Since INTPs are neither N dominants nor Feelers, their interest in arts and culture cannot match the INFJs’, especially if not raised in an artsy family. Rather, INTPs’ interests tend to be more conceptual and utility-focused. And while Fe is a part of INTPs’ functional stack, its inferior position makes INTPs far less outwardly celebrative and expressive. Moreover, INTPs often get excited about different things than INFJs. While INFJs may find pure joy in a fine meal or performance, INTPs are most excited by new ideas, possibilities, or challenges. (This Personality Junkie Post is continued on the next page.)


    Others report feelings of disembodiment. The fact is that many INFJs (and INTJs) seem to experience the world and their bodies differently than other types do. It is therefore not uncommon for INFJs or others to occasionally question their sanity.

    While INFJS are deeply theoretical, they don’t build their theories by consciously assembling facts in the way that Thinking or Sensing types might. Rather, INFJs see general connections and patterns by way of their Intuition; they experience everything as interconnected. For INFJs, discovering truth involves getting a better handle on the nature of this connectedness by discerning universal laws and patterns


    I want to adopt your, "THE PASSION IS REAL!" as my new motto. I could feel that it was from your video even though you weren't so outwardly passionate. My passion is outwardly restrained mostly but I feel it very deeply, for sure. I think you already know your type on a deeper level. Just gotta dig for it and maybe reevaluate some preconceived ideas. I am always discovering things to be passionate about. Maybe what I am saying will make no sense at all or maybe it will spark something. I wish you a speedy typing but only if you wish it for yourself. The thrill for me was discovering how each function manifested in my life and how this leads to certainty. I appreciated all the feedback I received along the way but in the end I made the choice for myself.

    That's really cool! I rarely meet any people similar to myself.
    I do relate to several of the points in the post you linked to as well. But I must admit, I don't need question my sanity. I have accepted that I am insane a long time ago. But to my defense, I believe that everyone else is as well, they are just doing a much better job of hiding it from themselves.

    Haha, thanks in regard to the motto! That would be awesome. I don't remember why I even made that disclaimer in the first place. I think it was when I watched the video in playback, and was kinda suprised/amused by my own enthusiasm on the subject. But it is a pretty good slogan, isn't it? I can usually come off as being quite disspassionate about things (I was origanlly typed LII in socionics), even if it isn't the case, so it's nice to see that I am able to communicate some of my ideas with that conviction.
    I hope for a speedy typing though. Not because I want typology to be done with, but I hate the process of not knowing something, and being unable to do anything about it. I am quite impatient in those kind of matters. I introspect a lot, but always overanalyse things. It took me over a year to find my MBTI type, and even then I only accept it because others have convinced me that it makes the most sense.

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    You're definitely a tough one. Most people choose their 5th over their 8th function, or their 6th over their 7th function on that test, which makes things easy. You did neither. Ni > Si seemed like an easy choice, which makes Si less likely to be your valued function. You were more certain about IP over EJ than IJ over EP, but that's not very relevant. You made comments that go both in favor of Fe ego and Te valuing, which wasn't helpful either. You seem to find ways to agree with opposing things without contradicting yourself, which goes to show you have strong Ne; and perhaps, just perhaps, are more attentive to Ti than to Te. All the objective relativism in your posts along with your general demeanor makes me want to vouch for IP temperament and IEI. EII remains a solid option, and pretty much the only viable alternative to IEI. If you're EII, you'd be Ne subtype.

    Next step would be to read up on other types and relationship dynamics, try to see yourself in relation to other types (which judging from the way you've presented yourself should not be that hard for you) and decide where you fit better.
    Last edited by Park; 04-07-2014 at 11:01 PM. Reason: minor corrections
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    In relation to your two quotes, I gotta be honest and say that I don't relate strongly to either.
    If I were to ask you which of the following two statements are more prominent to yourself, could you pick one?

    However, I am good at influencing people by saying the right things the right way. I try to use my knowledge to come up with meaningful solutions to their problems, while changing/manipulating their mood and mentality in the process.
    While I can easily influence people, it is not so much by how the message is being conveyed, but rather what is being said.
    And what exactly do you mean by "negotiated" in the following sentence?

    I don’t believe in any sort of objective right or wrong, and think morals should be negotiated rather than simply “felt”.
    Last edited by Park; 04-07-2014 at 11:01 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Whaa?? How do you come to this conclusion? I just feel a kindred spirit in him and not the socionics kind of kindred. You got me fucked up, i.e. confused. I certainly didn't mean to give that impression.I just like his energy.

    Edit: I realize I may have taken this wrong as well and it might just be innocent teasing so if it is I apologize for sounding defensive.
    Just teasing, take it easy.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    If I were to ask you which of the following two statements are more prominent to yourself, could you pick one?





    And what exactly do you mean by "negotiated" in the following sentence? Do you not think that the sense of morality is innate in humans?
    Right. chosing between the two quotes is almost impossible for me, so I asked my best friend and my sister. My best friend (Who is most likely ILE) said that the first one describes me best, even though the second is also good. My sister (Who may be EIE) also told me the first one was the most precise. So it has to be:

    "However, I am good at influencing people by saying the right things the right way. I try to use my knowledge to come up with meaningful solutions to their problems, while changing/manipulating their mood and mentality in the process."


    Ugh, did I really say negotiated - Now I am literally starting to sound like the texts I spend most of my day reading.
    What I mean by negotiated though, is that they are something that are decided by groups of people in specific cultures, to best fit their needs. Therefore they are relative and definitely not universal. While everyone has a given set of morals that might vary, they stem from a cultural context in which the morals have already been negotiated. So you are not born with them, and they aren't innate. But they are internalised (made personal) from society at a young age when learning to speak and think in a language. Therefore can seem like they are innate to some. However they are very bound (And therefore also limited) upon this language, and our culture and norms.
    For instance, all us westernes have a fairly similar definition of freedom. This is because it has ground in a collective cultural understanding. Yet if you discuss freedom in Africa or the Middle East, the word and the concept behind it means something completely different to them (Due to a cultural difference). This leads to misunderstanding as the word (And moral) itself has a different meanings and interpretations, based on their relative cultural values.
    So morals, ethics, rules, norms etc. are all constructions of our language. They have no actual objective structure or force behind the. It only seems that way because they are reproduced by society and individuals alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Right. chosing between the two quotes is almost impossible for me, so I asked my best friend and my sister. My best friend (Who is most likely ILE) said that the first one describes me best, even though the second is also good. My sister (Who may be EIE) also told me the first one was the most precise.
    So they both see more Fe than Te valuing in you.


    Quote Originally Posted by SSAJacobsen View Post
    Ugh, did I really say negotiated - Now I am literally starting to sound like the texts I spend most of my day reading.
    What I mean by negotiated though, is that they are something that are decided by groups of people in specific cultures, to best fit their needs. Therefore they are relative and definitely not universal. While everyone has a given set of morals that might vary, they stem from a cultural context in which the morals have already been negotiated. So you are not born with them, and they aren't innate. But they are internalised (made personal) from society at a young age when learning to speak and think in a language. Therefore can seem like they are innate to some. However they are very bound (And therefore also limited) upon this language, and our culture and norms.
    For instance, all us westernes have a fairly similar definition of freedom. This is because it has ground in a collective cultural understanding. Yet if you discuss freedom in Africa or the Middle East, the word and the concept behind it means something completely different to them (Due to a cultural difference). This leads to misunderstanding as the word (And moral) itself has a different meanings and interpretations, based on their relative cultural values.
    So morals, ethics, rules, norms etc. are all constructions of our language. They have no actual objective structure or force behind the. It only seems that way because they are reproduced by society and individuals alike.
    Morals should be decided to fit people's needs? That's trippy, dude. And unless you believe in an omnipotent god (which you don't), morals have to be innate in our species. If you grow up in a fucked up community, it doesn't mean you'll inherit it's moral values. And you don't have to have any "collective cultural understanding" to not be a sociopath.
    Last edited by Park; 04-08-2014 at 12:02 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    So they both see more Fe than Te valuing in you.




    Morals should be decided to fit people's needs? That's trippy, dude. And unless you believe in an omnipotent god (which you don't), morals have to be innate in our species. If you grow up in a fucked up community, it doesn't mean you'll inherit it's moral values. And you don't have to have any "collective cultural understanding" to not be a sociopath.
    Needs was probably not very specific. I am no utilitarian. But based on the societies relative values. Also, this is not me describing how I think morals should be, but rather how I think they are.

    No they don't have to. I believe that they are continiously produced by a dialectic interaction between individuals and their contexts. However, no two individuals have the same premises, and are continiously influenced by their enviroments and likewise able reflect upon them. I'm not talking micro perspectives here, but rather trying to explain how language shapes and determines the settings and frame from which we can create and understand our worlviews and morals.
    So I don't deny individual differentation. Not at all. But I don't view this as something we are born with, but rather something we create. Existence precedes essence. So what I argue, is that this differentiation is made from a relational interaction (Relational here constituting not only in relation to other people, but also relation to one self, through introspection), rather than a by biological pre-existing determining factor. A small bit of your personality can be biologically constituted, but it is a generally accepted fact within modern psychology, that over 70% of your behaviour is context dependent. So if you grow up in a fucked up community, you don't have to inherent it's values. But the fucked up community sets the limitations from which you can understand and define your worldview, which means you shape yourself within the frames of your own understanding of that context. So basically I believe that every individual exists within a context, and removing him or her from it, makes every observation that is made about him or her meaningless.

    If you are familiar with french philosopher Michel Foucault and his work about ethics, it is largely from him that I draw my opinions and viewpoints on the matter. He has made many historical analyses about how our values, norms and morals are shaped and normalised throughout history.

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    By way of your type... Your video, when you talked about hierarchy and stereotypes, brought to mind a consensus reached by some of this forum's betas about five years ago (myself included.)

    I might've told you differently back then, but during these intervening years, various obstacles made clear that beta values don't necessarily equal the (indiscriminate) embrace of hierarchies or championing of stereotypes.

    Beta values confer an implicit awareness of power hierarchies, and attentiveness to them, (whether that morphs into love, loathing, or disregard for a particular hierarchy fluctuates from person-to-person.) In other words, it's that the Ti + Se was in the front of your mind, on the tip of your tongue - and not deep in the recesses - that reveals you to be (in all likelihood) Beta.

    Also, stereotyping -- for betas, this process serves a purpose similar to the shorthand used by the secretaries of our grandparents' generation -- to take quick, incisive notes -- as opposed to the current definition that connotes shallow, sloppy thinking. In other words, you might relate more to beta values when they're written by a beta - most often they're not.

    From what you've communicated, your Sociotype: a variant of Ni-INFp. (Even within the subtypes of each type, there are several variants that come up again and again.)

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    By way of your type... Your video, when you talked about hierarchy and stereotypes, brought to mind a consensus reached by some of this forum's betas about five years ago (myself included.)

    I might've told you differently back then, but during these intervening years, various obstacles made clear that beta values don't necessarily equal the (indiscriminate) embrace of hierarchies or championing of stereotypes.

    Beta values confer an implicit awareness of power hierarchies, and attentiveness to them, (whether that morphs into love, loathing, or disregard for a particular hierarchy fluctuates from person-to-person.) In other words, it's that the Ti + Se was in the front of your mind, on the tip of your tongue - and not deep in the recesses - that reveals you to be (in all likelihood) Beta.

    Also, stereotyping -- for betas, this process serves a purpose similar to the shorthand used by the secretaries of our grandparents' generation -- to take quick, incisive notes -- as opposed to the current definition that connotes shallow, sloppy thinking. In other words, you might relate more to beta values when they're written by a beta - most often they're not.

    From what you've communicated, your Sociotype: a variant of Ni-INFp. (Even within the subtypes of each type, there are several variants that come up again and again.)
    Hmmm, that's an interesting perspective! Especially since it could actually explain some of the more grey areas in my relation to the quadra overall, and it makes perfect sense as well.
    I would be very interested in a Betas perspective on their quadra. Think I'm gonna go over to the Beta forums and lurk a bit for now.

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