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Thread: J v P - does this work

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    Default J v P - does this work

    Do you try to force a change in the current circumstances in order to acheive your goals?

    -Yes, I try to force a change in the circumstances, rather than work with the circumstances that exist, in order to achieve my goals. (j)

    -No, I work with the circumstances that exist, rather than try to change circumstances, in order to achieve my goals. (p)

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    don't we all???
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    No, it doesn't work.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    I've edited the original post. What do you think now?

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    The term circumstance seems too vague.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    The term "circumstance" seems too vague.
    Can you suggest a change of the word?

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Nope, it all depends on the importance of the issue: it it concerns something extremely important to me, I will relentless battle for what I think is important, and take no prisoners. But most things are not worth the trouble.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    soooo.... if a person wanted to make more money, a rational type would get a different job or go into a new line of work while an irrational type would work to advance his current career????????
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult
    Nope, it all depends on the importance of the issue: it it concerns something extremely important to me, I will relentless battle for what I think is important, and take no prisoners. But most things are not worth the trouble.
    But it's about how you battle for it - do you do it by forcing a change of circumstances or working with the circumstances that already exist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    soooo.... if a person wanted to make more money, a rational type would get a different job or go into a new line of work while an irrational type would work to advance his current career????????
    kinda

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    can you give examples?

    to me, improving circumstances means that you are changing them
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    I think all self-imposed movements towards change are an imposition of one's desired circumstance towards the current situation, and as such the process of changing the situation is always done via forcing a change in the "circumstance."
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    to me, improving circumstances means that you are changing them
    Yes. Either you try to improve your curcumstances or you work with the ones that already exist, in order to achieve your goals.

    (I'm trying to think of an example)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    I think all self-imposed movements towards change are an imposition of one's desired circumstance towards the current situation, and as such the process of changing the situation is always done via forcing a change in the "circumstance."
    I think j and p types have different methods for achieveing goals. Perhaps I'm wrong.

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    it seems a little backwards from the stereotypes
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    it seems a little backwards from the stereotypes
    What do you mean?

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    irrational types are thought to have less follow through
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo
    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult
    Nope, it all depends on the importance of the issue: it it concerns something extremely important to me, I will relentless battle for what I think is important, and take no prisoners. But most things are not worth the trouble.
    But it's about how you battle for it - do you do it by forcing a change of circumstances or working with the circumstances that already exist?
    Like I said: it depends on the situation, and on factors outside Socionic aspects, such as stress or neurosis. If you want to know the J/P preference, you need to phrase the question in such a way that you rule out the possibility that the answer refelcts something else than J/P.

    This is exactly what the issue is with many MBTI-questionnaires, they do ot rule out the possibility that you're measuring stress of neurosis. The Big 5 has 4 dimension that correlate to the 4 dimensions of Socionics, and a fifth one measureing neurosis. If such a dimension was added to Socionics, it would clear up a lot of issues.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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