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Thread: 'Artistic'/Creative ESI's.

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    Default 'Artistic'/Creative ESI's.

    How common are they, particularly among young ESIs?

    While I relate to quite a few aspects of ESI/Gamma (ESI-Fi, specifically) and have considered it as an alternative typing, one aspect of the type that seems off to me is the fact that ESIs are typically described as pursuing traditional, 'wordly' occupations - like that of a politician, doctor, nurse, etc. - whereas my interests have mainly lied in creative fields like photography and cinema (not that I'd go as far as labeling myself 'artistic'). Nonetheless, I'd prefer if this thread didn't turn into another discussion about my type, as I feel that I've received enough feedback and realize that it's something that I'll have to decide on my own through introspection.

    So going back to the original question...Would you say this is an aspect of ESI that's overlooked?
    Last edited by suedehead; 03-15-2014 at 02:57 PM.

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    Any type can do well in any profession, in principle.

    Specifically, since ESIs are a sensing + feeling type, I can't see why they should have trouble going into cinema and photography. A relative of mine is ESI (at the very least IJ + feeling) and she creates decorations and writes book about it for a living. If you wish to determine your type and you're stuck with ESI and SEI as alternatives, I'm afraid you'll have to look somewhere else.
    Last edited by FDG; 03-15-2014 at 03:38 PM.
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    Dreiser.
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    this thread is ne polr
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    How common are they, particularly among young ESIs?

    While I relate to quite a few aspects of ESI/Gamma (ESI-Fi, specifically) and have considered it as an alternative typing, one aspect of the type that seems off to me is the fact that ESIs are typically described as pursuing traditional, 'wordly' occupations - like that of a politician, doctor, nurse, etc. - whereas my interests have mainly lied in creative fields like photography and cinema (not that I'd go as far as labeling myself 'artistic'). Nonetheless, I'd prefer if this thread didn't turn into another discussion about my type, as I feel that I've received enough feedback and realize that it's something that I'll have to decide on my own through introspection.

    So going back to the original question...Would you say this is an aspect of ESI that's overlooked?
    Most of the ESIs I've known thus far in real life are in a creative/artistic field or want to be (myself excluded--- I love science...but if I was an amazing musician whatsoever, I'd fancy to pursue that.... however, I'm not).

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    I'm a writer. It's not my occupation, though; I like money, food, and living comfortably indoors.
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    James Franco, Johnny Marr, Hunter S Thompson, Johnny Depp, Feist, Sarah Blasko, Florence Welch, Grimes, etc.

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    Any type can be an artist. That is not type related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    James Franco, Johnny Marr, Hunter S Thompson, Johnny Depp, Feist, Sarah Blasko, Florence Welch, Grimes, etc.



    but seriously, I'm pretty sure renowned chef Thomas Keller is ESI:


    "embedding disabled by request", hence:


    the following is a very enlightening video, IMO:
    Last edited by Olduvai; 04-07-2014 at 07:18 PM.

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    Bob Dylan.

    also, @lungs - look how beautiful her avatars are. She seems to have an eye for interesting and beautiful shapes and forms, even in chaos. I don't know what she does for a living or if she pursues art at all but she definitely has the eye of an artist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epheme View Post
    Bob Dylan.

    also, @lungs - look how beautiful her avatars are. She seems to have an eye for interesting SMS beautiful shapes and forms, even in chaos. I don't know what she does for a living or if she pursues art at all but she definitely has the eye of an artist.
    i'm just an appreciator and a bit of a wannabe. But @Allie is a really talented painter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    James Franco, Johnny Marr, Hunter S Thompson, Johnny Depp, Feist, Sarah Blasko, Florence Welch, Grimes, etc.
    this list proves that ESIs are artistic and physically dirty too.

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    Theatre has lured many an arts-predisposed ESI - for centuries in fact, but throughout our era as well - and not just as actors, but as patrons, set designers, and directors.

    The immediate response from a crowd; the repetition of lines and blocking (both of which become perfected via continual application the idea that one's a part of an institution with a history stretching back to before man could even write down its history - Sophocles, Shakespeare, Chekov.

    All of this appeals to an ESI.

    Sculpting, painting, and music appeal likewise... Any of the art forms that have crossed the threshold into what one could call "institutionalization." ESIs aren't often, if ever, that woman on the corner of the street, encased in a plastic bag, writhing in protest about the way [Power Group A] treats "the other." She's most likely alpha or beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    Sculpting, painting, and music appeal likewise... Any of the art forms that have crossed the threshold into what one could call "institutionalization." ESIs aren't often, if ever, that woman on the corner of the street, encased in a plastic bag, writhing in protest about the way [Power Group A] treats "the other." She's most likely alpha or beta.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Abramovi%C4%87

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    Good point!

    The fine point of distinction, I suppose, is: where has the woman tended to be encased in a plastic bag, writhing in protest? And for what audience?

    If the answer is at MoMa, for NY luminaries like Lou Reed, then ESI isn't a bad guess; but if the answer is on the corner of Market Street in San Francisco, for the guy who hustles tourists by playing "guess which cup has the ball under it," then ESI isn't as good a guess.

    (Does anyone else find Abramović appealing? She has that "I'm not going to take any shit from you" look that's... needed.)

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    Is Marina Abramovic ESI? I thought she was EIE.

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    I might have known an ESI (or SEI-Si) who got involved in a Trayvon Martin protest, although it didn't look like anything too grimy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Is Marina Abramovic ESI? I thought she was EIE.
    I was rolling with the example given... Personally, I couldn't say sans bullshit one way or another.

    That said, there have been other examples mentioned in this thread -- James Franco for one -- who have built their entire careers by deftly wielding Fe.

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    ENFj, clearly.
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    I only know that Ashton typed her esi and I was happy to go along with it. ^_^

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I only know that Ashton typed her esi and I was happy to go along with it. ^_^
    he cray

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    I think that any type could be good at art, like any type could be good at sports. There are many different ways to be artistic and even two people who go into stage acting or graphic design may be motivated to do so for different reasons. I consider myself to be artistic. For me, I appreciate aesthetics and find form and color to be highly important. I love the more classical styles of art and tend toward realism myself. I put a lot of thought into my pieces before I even begin them to make sure it all comes together how I want it to. With that said, I don't do art as often as I did when I was much younger. There are too many other things that I prefer to be doing. Besides, I couldn't see myself as being motivated enough to create art for a living.

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    All three of my past art teachers have been very clear cut ESIs. So, take that for what its worth. Also, I think if you look into a lot of the types of indie artists like St. Vincent you would find a lot of ESIs. I think it's probably an aspect of the type that is brushed over in many descriptions, just my thoughts. Also, I like your avatar.

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    Lol. I always thought SEE for Abramovic for some reason but I think EIE makes more sense for her given the sort of work she creates...

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5106347.html


    Last edited by lemontrees; 04-11-2014 at 07:35 PM.

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    Default if it was easy...

    If it were easy to be creative for a living, they would definitely do it. They don't like direct competition and to get into any related fields would be putting yourself out there and you know they have huge anxiety towards that.

    Pretty certain James Franco is not an ISFj, looks more like an ISFp(His smile is so Fe it hurts). Seth Rogan also being ENTP would make more sense.

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    I think the fact the ISFjs are seen as "not artists" might have to do with bias against Gamma SFs on part of the creator (ILE) of Socionics. An ILE might see SEIs as the "aesthete" type because that is the aesthetic taste they themselves prefer. You probably wouldn't hear a lot of ESTps encouraging INFjs to express themselves, either.

    The more I've thought about it, Socionics seems to paint Gamma in unflattering light. We're "vindictive", "can't take a joke" and incapable of doing anything besides work.

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    I have a secret obsession of creating collages. I will spend hours focusing on one until I get it to look how I want it to. or until it "feels" right.


    I haven't done it in a couple of months do to lack of time. but. it's one of my favorite things to do on a rainy day/ when I'm feeling down.


    I'm so secretive about it. Door's locked. hide them in a big folder under a bunch of tampons in a drawer (which is silly because no one cares).

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I have a secret obsession of creating collages. I will spend hours focusing on one until I get it to look how I want it to. or until it "feels" right.


    I haven't done it in a couple of months do to lack of time. but. it's one of my favorite things to do on a rainy day/ when I'm feeling down.


    I'm so secretive about it. Door's locked. hide them in a big folder under a bunch of tampons in a drawer (which is silly because no one cares).
    Would you say that sensors prefer to create more tactile works of art? I think collages and sculptures could be included in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    The more I've thought about it, Socionics seems to paint Gamma in unflattering light. We're "vindictive", "can't take a joke" and incapable of doing anything besides work.
    Please tell me these assumptions aren't true.

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    I'm ESI and I'm in graphic design, after being in guidance counselling. My dream job would be directing music videos and movies, finding the concept and writing the scenarios. I would love to be a professional photographer too. But I don't think that it could bring enough money for me to live. So what I do is taking pictures in music shows for my own pleasure. And I like using watercolours and india ink in my art projects.

    The fact that the artistic field doesn't seem to bring security is the reason why I chose another field of work after college. But I was unhappy in that field, so I got back to what I love, art.

    p.s. When I do art or graphic design, it's mostly "conceptual". I love to find another meaning (Ni?) behind what we seem to see with our senses (Se?).

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    Photography's a visual/sensory experience for me. Lights, textures, movement, perspective, reflective surfaces, the vigor that goes along with each moment as you're walking through the city at night, or as a car or train passes by in front of you at full speed. I'm easily impressed by these sort of things. I feel kind of dense describing what I experience since it seems like a dorky thing to share, and it's weird for me to talk about it as if there's something special about what I'm doing when I'm only just starting out.
    Last edited by suedehead; 06-18-2014 at 02:54 PM.

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    ^It is impressive though.

    Do you pick up moods and feelings from everyday sensory stuff? The combination of everything happening around me at once has it's own unique mood, to me, and sometimes you take everything in and it just hits you how fucking incredible it all is. And it's something I can't share with others, which kind of makes it better. It's like your secret.

    When I'm playing a musical instrument or whatever and coming up with musical ideas with others my brain kind of switches off and everything is pretty spontaneous, and I can come up with stuff out of nowhere. It's sounds so pretentious and cliche to put it like this because it's impossible to put into words but it's like you're one with the instrument and the music and what should happen just happens. Seems pretty in line with my understanding of objective sensing.

    The notion that ESI's wouldn't be creative seemed bizarre to me. I associate aesthetic creativity a lot more to Se than Ne. What is Ne aesthetics?

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    I'm not sure if it's a mood. Sometimes it is. I feel like I often end up scanning or focusing in on specific objects, as opposed to just a general impression if that makes sense. It's hard to really describe. I probably start with the general picture first, and then just dart around. I'm not always sure how it makes me feel beyond just the sensory impression, but it's engaging in a weird way. Some things stand out more than most.
    Last edited by suedehead; 06-19-2014 at 12:54 AM.

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    Ain and Suede. ESI bros.



    (Also I totally relate to what you're saying).

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    I took a painting class recently where this was this ESI girl there who had studied fashion illustration undergrad and she was amazing- the pieces were pretty emotionally evocative, but also definitely very Se-creative to me (she seemed to always start already knowing exactly what she was going to do but the Ni-seeking idea was built into that drawing I guess). Also my former ESI roommate enjoyed fashion and photography and was great at those things (which she also pursued as a hobby.) Our apt was beautifully decorated b/c of her. ;___; But again due to needing to support herself she had picked something completely diff for career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainfigur View Post
    The notion that ESI's wouldn't be creative seemed bizarre to me. I associate aesthetic creativity a lot more to Se than Ne. What is Ne aesthetics?
    Person 1: "OK, let's see what happens when we put Red and Blue together!" *rubs hands together*
    Person 2: "It's been done."
    Person 1: "I didn't want to do it, anyway!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainfigur View Post
    ^It is impressive though.

    Do you pick up moods and feelings from everyday sensory stuff? The combination of everything happening around me at once has it's own unique mood, to me, and sometimes you take everything in and it just hits you how fucking incredible it all is. And it's something I can't share with others, which kind of makes it better. It's like your secret.

    When I'm playing a musical instrument or whatever and coming up with musical ideas with others my brain kind of switches off and everything is pretty spontaneous, and I can come up with stuff out of nowhere. It's sounds so pretentious and cliche to put it like this because it's impossible to put into words but it's like you're one with the instrument and the music and what should happen just happens. Seems pretty in line with my understanding of objective sensing.

    The notion that ESI's wouldn't be creative seemed bizarre to me. I associate aesthetic creativity a lot more to Se than Ne. What is Ne aesthetics?
    Compare the aesthetics of someone like Georgia O'Keeffe to Dadaism or Surrealism (which one could say is mostly Ne and Ni). Picasso is typed SLE, but I think he's ESI. Anyway he's a Se ego and I don't see lack of imagination and creativity in his paintings. Edward Hopper feels Se creative in his paintings to me as well.

    In Socionics they managed to reduce Fi to moral judgement and loyalties (not inner life or a subjective lens from which a vision can arise) and Se to gauging force or power aspects and of course the ISFP, usually portrayed as the artist in mbti, had to change a bit. Count in the notion of Quadra values ... and how could a Gamma be artistic, when they have to be thirsty for productivity and hardcore realism?
    Last edited by Amber; 06-23-2014 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Compare the aesthetics of someone like Georgia O'Keeffe to Dadaism or Surrealism (which one could say is mostly Ne and Ni). Picasso is typed SLE, but I think he's ESI. Anyway he's a Se ego and I don't see lack of imagination and creativity in his paintings. Edward Hopper feels Se creative in his paintings to me as well.

    In Socionics they managed to reduce Fi to moral judgement and loyalties (not inner life or a subjective lens from which a vision can arise) and Se to gauging force or power aspects and of course the ISFP, usually portrayed as the artist in mbti, had to change a bit. Count in the notion of Quadra values ... and how could a Gamma be artistic, when they have to be thirsty for productivity and hardcore realism?
    Have you studied any playwrights?
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Compare the aesthetics of someone like Georgia O'Keeffe to Dadaism or Surrealism (which one could say is mostly Ne and Ni). Picasso is typed SLE, but I think he's ESI. Anyway he's a Se ego and I don't see lack of imagination and creativity in his paintings. Edward Hopper feels Se creative in his paintings to me as well.

    In Socionics they managed to reduce Fi to moral judgement and loyalties (not inner life or a subjective lens from which a vision can arise) and Se to gauging force or power aspects and of course the ISFP, usually portrayed as the artist in mbti, had to change a bit. Count in the notion of Quadra values ... and how could a Gamma be artistic, when they have to be thirsty for productivity and hardcore realism?
    Maybe the Quadra values aren't as strict as Socionics makes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Have you studied any playwrights?
    I studied languages and literature, so ...yeah. Guys like O'Neill, Albee (Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf), Sam Shepard, Tennessee Williams (you prolly know A Streetcar Named Desire as a movie). Why, ... are you looking for ESI playwrights or do you just like drama?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    I studied languages and literature, so ...yeah. Guys like O'Neill, Albee (Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf), Sam Shepard, Tennessee Williams (you prolly know A Streetcar Named Desire as a movie). Why, ... are you looking for ESI playwrights or do you just like drama?
    I got my undergrad in theater, I was mostly wondering if you included playwrighting as an artistic endeavor.
    Easy Day

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