Which quadra is the most individualistic?

[suedehead]

And which is the least?

[Aquagraph]

A more sensible question might be "How does individualism manifest in different quadras?".

[suedehead]

A more sensible question might be "How does individualism manifest in different quadras?".

Touché.

[chriscorey]

Alphas can be exceptionally individualistic in being Se-devaluing and Ti-valuing, little perception/regard to other's motives with a strong tendency to develop their own systems independent of popular consensus or others' input. The LII-ESE Duality, in particular, can be outright belligerent toward outsider's opinions and quite disagreeable, making them one of the most independent and individualistic dualities, and often annoying to other people.

That said, both Alpha and Delta, being Ne-valuing, tend to seek relationships with other people in the context of expanding possibilities and understanding. Gamma seems to be the quadra that limits their relationships the most. The Ni/Se view seems to incorporate an understanding that if you don't need or want something from someone, you shouldn't bother them. So Gammas can be individualistic in this way, and be less inclined for small talk.

Do you know why? I'm curious.

[Olduvai]

for the most part, Fe/Ti = group-oriented and Fi/Te = individualistic

anyone who says otherwise is wrong

[Phantom Shadow]

for the most part, Fe/Ti = group-oriented and Fi/Te = individualistic

anyone who says otherwise is wrong

Exactly,

You can't be truly individualistic if your worried about how those around will react and feel. (Fe valuing)

[Beautiful sky]

Alphas can be exceptionally individualistic in being Se-devaluing and Ti-valuing, little perception/regard to other's motives with a strong tendency to develop their own systems independent of popular consensus or others' input. The LII-ESE Duality, in particular, can be outright belligerent toward outsider's opinions and quite disagreeable, making them one of the most independent and individualistic dualities, and often annoying to other people.

That said, both Alpha and Delta, being Ne-valuing, tend to seek relationships with other people in the context of expanding possibilities and understanding. Gamma seems to be the quadra that limits their relationships the most. The Ni/Se view seems to incorporate an understanding that if you don't need or want something from someone, you shouldn't bother them. So Gammas can be individualistic in this way, and be less inclined for small talk.

Nice post

I'd say Delta is most about the integrity of the team.

[Phantom Shadow]

Alphas can be exceptionally individualistic in being Se-devaluing and Ti-valuing, little perception/regard to other's motives with a strong tendency to develop their own systems independent of popular consensus or others' input. The LII-ESE Duality, in particular, can be outright belligerent toward outsider's opinions and quite disagreeable, making them one of the most independent and individualistic dualities, and often annoying to other people.

That said, both Alpha and Delta, being Ne-valuing, tend to seek relationships with other people in the context of expanding possibilities and understanding. Gamma seems to be the quadra that limits their relationships the most. The Ni/Se view seems to incorporate an understanding that if you don't need or want something from someone, you shouldn't bother them. So Gammas can be individualistic in this way, and be less inclined for small talk.

It's actually a quality of Ni Te, we disregard possibilities that lead nowhere or offer no benefits. We don't value individuality and originality for it own sake.

[Eldanen]

NTR much?

[Esaman]

Give definition of individualism.
For political individualism of being against institutions Gamma is the first.

[Olduvai]

Nice post

I'd say Delta is most about the integrity of the team.

lol, Delta doesn't give two shits about the team. I've literally been called "not a team player" several times in my life. Again: your head is in your ass.

[Beautiful sky]

lol, Delta doesn't give two shits about the team. I've literally been called "not a team player" several times in my life. Again: your head is in your ass.

Hum. Maybe it's your dual pair thing (ever think about that?)

[strrrng]

Betas strive to be the most individuated, in the face of whatever cultural and ideological boundaries that are imposed upon them, and deltas, in their implicitly-respectful-of-the-interpersonal-code manner, are politically individualistic; however aristocratic types are compelled to implicitly limit the scope of freedom individuals are given, whether because of collective or operational necessity; so while alphas, being the most straitforwardly democratic, and hence the most open to liberally progressive forms of individualism, surpass the aristocratic quadras in this sense, they fall short in comparison to gammas, the latter being more authentically politically progressive, and hence individualistic in the strict sense.

Do you know why? I'm curious.

Because -valuers view environmental boundaries as distinct from individuals.

Exactly,

You can't be truly individualistic if your worried about how those around will react and feel. (Fe valuing)

Actually you can, which is what alpha best embodies. + leads to a kind of culturally laissez faire mindset. Granted they have their decorum, but I wouldn't consider it any more limiting than the bureaucratic boundaries many deltas tacitly impose, on this kind of quasi-collective level.

lol, Delta doesn't give two shits about the team. I've literally been called "not a team player" several times in my life. Again: your head is in your ass.

Lol. I've known plenty of betas who couldn't give two shits about 'teamwork' and all the idiotic, interpersonal implications it's supposed to have... and I've seen quite a few deltas fall into the campfire carol category.

[wacey]

Betas strive to be the most individuated, in the face of whatever cultural and ideological boundaries that are imposed upon them, and deltas, in their implicitly-respectful-of-the-interpersonal-code manner, are politically individualistic; however aristocratic types are compelled to implicitly limit the scope of freedom individuals are given, whether because of collective or operational necessity; so while alphas, being the most straitforwardly democratic, and hence the most open to liberally progressive forms of individualism, surpass the aristocratic quadras in this sense, they fall short in comparison to gammas, the latter being more authentically politically progressive, and hence individualistic in the strict sense.



Because -valuers view environmental boundaries as distinct from individuals.



Actually you can, which is what alpha best embodies. + leads to a kind of culturally laissez faire mindset. Granted they have their decorum, but I wouldn't consider it any more limiting than the bureaucratic boundaries many deltas tacitly impose, on this kind of quasi-collective level.



Lol. I've known plenty of betas who couldn't give two shits about 'teamwork' and all the idiotic, interpersonal implications it's supposed to have... and I've seen quite a few deltas fall into the campfire carol category.

love campfires.

[suedehead]

for the most part, Fe/Ti = group-oriented and Fi/Te = individualistic

anyone who says otherwise is wrong

The way a person behaves within a social environment doesn't necessarily say anything about their views/values when outside of the group..

[Olduvai]

The way a person behaves within a social environment doesn't necessarily say anything about their views/values when outside of the group..

Perhaps I should've said "self-centered" or "concerned primarily about the welfare of myself" instead of "individualistic", and "self-sacrificing" or "concerned primarily about the welfare of the group" instead of "group-oriented".

Also, I included the "for the most part" for a reason.

Lol. I've known plenty of betas who couldn't give two shits about 'teamwork' and all the idiotic, interpersonal implications it's supposed to have... and I've seen quite a few deltas fall into the campfire carol category.

Again:

for the most part, Fe/Ti = group-oriented and Fi/Te = individualistic

Also, what do you mean by "idiotic, interpersonal implications", and what do you mean by "campfire carol"?

[wacey]

Wow, really?

Why "don't" "you" "try" to think about what "others" are saying before you "respond" with an "asinine" comment?

Delta NF have Fe observing and demonstrative. The IE are not in a bubble, all types including DELTAs use them. Get yourself straight boy, cause you got it all wrong.

[Pookie]

Do you know why? I'm curious.

Its attributed to the Decisive quadras for what its worth, so i'd say its linked to Se/Ni directly.

[ashlesha]

i had attributed it to constructivism...does anybody have a link, or anything?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

wow @William that was so fucking insightful lol. and spot on. How can you be so annoying yet so smart at the same time. =)

[Eldanen]

I think Ne focuses more on the potential in people and good things that might occur where Ni focuses more on forecasting potential pitfalls over time. This might make Ni quadras less likely to want to meet new people, or at least to be much more receptive to the consequences of doing so, rather than the possibilities.

In practice I wouldn't say this manifests as Ni quadras being necessarily unfriendly or even hesitant for meeting new people, but much more aware of their position and relationship toward a new person and observant for what the other person might want from them.

Introverted functions are generally more limiting by nature. Negativism only amplifies this trait. Oddly, positivist introverts are some of the warmest people you'll meet. They have the good nature of positivists without the ego of extroverts.

[Radio]

Exactly,

You can't be truly individualistic if your worried about how those around will react and feel. (Fe valuing)

Fi is not self-centered, that defeats the entire purpose of being an F type. All F types communicate in a way that is supposed to affect how others around them react and feel.

[strrrng]

Introverted functions are generally more limiting by nature. Negativism only amplifies this trait. Oddly, positivist introverts are some of the warmest people you'll meet. They have the good nature of positivists without the ego of extroverts.

this probably has something to do with the implicit sacrifice that comes with being an aristocratic introvert

[ashlesha]

Fi is not self-centered, that defeats the entire purpose of being an F type. All F types communicate in a way that is supposed to affect how others around them react and feel.

idk, i'm pretty self centered

[lemontrees]

Introverted functions are generally more limiting by nature. Negativism only amplifies this trait. Oddly, positivist introverts are some of the warmest people you'll meet. They have the good nature of positivists without the ego of extroverts.

I was just thinking earlier today how I wish I were more of positivist or less of an introvert!! That negativist introversion black hole of mistrust and stasis feels really, really bad sometimes... unless that's just Si.

[lemontrees]

^ We just need an ILI to click "like" to this and then the circle would be complete.

[Radio]

idk, i'm pretty self centered

sure, but not in the way it was put in context in the thread. like you've visibly often displayed anxiety about whether or not someone is offended by something you said, and stuff like that. maybe it's not as conscious an effort but it's still there.

[JuJu]

Define "individualistic" - you know what I mean?

In the stereotypical sense of the green-haired, nape pierced, lesbian-heading toward-****** on the motorcycle with the iPod blaring outlaw country set to ambient techno… Probably a beta.
But if you're talking about the guy who lives out in the middle of nowhere, who nobody one sees unless it's that one day per month he drives into town to get something like an irregular sized hex nut to fix the broken-down lawnmower he found junked on someone else's lawn… Probably a delta.

And on and on… It applies to all four quadras. (And these are not hard and fast rules, by any means.)

[kadda1212]

What I observe is that the whole society is growing more and more individualistic. I'm speaking for Germany here, I don't know what it's like in the US - I guess American people still have their patriotism that keeps them kind of together. We Germans don't have that for obvious reasons - we're only patriots when there's a soccer championship going on. I guess, that's why individualism falls on fertile soil in my country - despite our overall LSI mentality.
I can see, Fi egos are especially individualistic people. But some people are just self-absorbed and want to do everything their own way.

[ConcreteButterfly]

Deltas are the most individualistic in business settings. They'll work in their own way and for themselves.

Betas are the most individualistic in social settings. They'll "emote" in their own way and for themselves.

Alphas and Gammas are like shadows of the above two. They're individualistic privately, internally - Alphas about their concepts (Ti), and Gammas about their personal bonds (Fi)

[Eliza Thomason]

lol, Delta doesn't give two shits about the team. I've literally been called "not a team player" several times in my life. ....

"Not a team player" - I haven't been called that, but I probably have been perceived that in certain "teams" I have been on. An example was teaching in a school with many ESE's. I wasn't on board with all they chose for us to do and while I did not usually ever protest it (seeing the pointlessness of that)I I avoided supporting their endeavors whenever I could. I am sure I was not seen as a big "team" person on that team, that I was required to be a member of. Though I made sure I did the bare minimum, at least, out of duty.

But as to a team I choose - I am really big on the integrity of that. My family, for example. My Dual-fiance, us, as a team - we are both into our integrity in that so much that we are willing to endure discomfort and inconvenience in order to uphold it. I care about the integrity of my Church, often experiencing growing pains, often making human errors, often infiltrated with those of their own agenda not the team's agenda. Its my team and I really care about the integrity of it. And I am personally offended when "team members" compromise its integrity. Also I work for a school district that excels in integrity, and I really feel good to be apart of it.

So that's why @Maritsa's comment made sense to me.