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Thread: Alpha vs Gamma

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    Default Alpha vs Gamma

    Why is it that these two quadras dont get along? They're both democratic and don't like to identify with large organizations. Is Se Fi vs Si Fe really all that bad?

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Eh, some Gamma SF's seem to have too much 'attitude' for my taste (too much "me against the world" thinking)..I find alot of them intimidating.

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    Olduvai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transkar View Post
    Why is it that these two quadras dont get along? They're both democratic and don't like to identify with large organizations. Is Se Fi vs Si Fe really all that bad?
    Gamma values Se, Ni, Te, and Fi, while Alpha values Ne, Si, Fe, and Ti. The kinds of information they consider important are completely different.

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    The Reclusive Philosopher Phantom Shadow's Avatar
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    I hang out with alphas all the time we get along alright for the most part. Except when we have to work together.

    Some general issues that urise when we're together:

    Too much goofing around, endless pranks and jokes at inappropriate times.

    Unwillingness to burn bridges with those that are abusive, disrespectful, manipulative, and deceitful. (Having access to these people support and resources are more important than protecting allies and themselves.)

    Unwilling to stand up for themselves and those they care about. Backing down when the situation get too tense.

    Too forgiving and trusting of those who purposeful harmed them or their comrades.

    A general lack of and commitment to their principles, philosophies, and ideologies.

    An inability to consistently meet goals, objectives, and deadlines; easily distracted and often unproductive with excessive procrastination.

    Overly concerned with personal pleasures, and enjoyment; hedonistic behaviors and tendencies.

    Quick to quit or abandon commitments and responsibilities if they become too stressful, or inconvenient. Or if something more interesting and new appears.

    Very dependent on external displays of emotion to assess mood, and motives.

    Alpha XSFx can be very emotionally demanding of those around them.

    Difficulty addressing serious, grim, sensitive contraversial, taboo, and obscene topic in mature, respectful manner.
    Last edited by Phantom Shadow; 03-04-2014 at 10:38 AM.
    MBTI: INTJ
    Socionics: Te-ILI
    Enneagram Type: 5w6
    Enneagram Tritype: Head-5, Gut-9, Heart-3
    Instinctal Stacking: Sp/Sx
    Jung's 7 Archetypes: The Rebel/The Revolutionary/The Provocateur
    Political Position: Independent
    Prefered Ecomonic Structure: Pure Capitalism
    Religious and Spiritual Stance: Theosophy/Occultism
    Government Structural Preference: Meritocratic Republic

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    I heard that Gamma Quadra is large supplier when it comes to explosives, @Phantom Shadow. As a matter of fact I want to purchase some to kill forum members via PM function.

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    I hang out with alphas all the time we get along alright for the most part. Except when we have to work together.
    I agree with this from the other end of the spectrum.

    Some general issues that urise when we're together:

    Too much goofing around, endless pranks and jokes at inappropriate times.
    Yeah this is probably true (how much is too much though?)

    Unwillingness to burn bridges with those that are abusive, disrespectful, manipulative, and deceitful. (Having access to these people support and resources are more important than protecting allies and themselves.)
    eh..alpha NT here doesn't see himself in this

    Unwilling to stand up for themselves and those they care about. Backing down when the situation get too tense.
    probably true, compared to gamma's sure!

    Too forgiving and trusting of those who purposeful harmed them or their comrades.
    nope, I destroy those who get at my friend and ignore those who hurt me

    A general lack of and commitment to their principles, philosophies, and ideologies.
    yup..

    An inability to consistently meet goals, objectives, and deadlines; easily distracted and often unproductive with excessive procrastination.
    This is a lie (not the socionics one), i'll prove it to you, soon, maybe, what was I saying?

    Overly concerned with personal pleasures, and enjoyment; hedonistic behaviors and tendencies.
    teeheehee <3

    Quick to quit or abandon commitments and responsibilities if they become too stressful, or inconvenient. Or if something more interesting and new appears.
    whoop whoop

    Very dependent on external displays of emotion to assess mood, and motives.
    yeah

    Alpha XSFx can be very emotionally demanding of those around them.
    Alpha SF's are mythical creatures, they don't exist!

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Alphas are what Gammas would like to be: open-minded, outgoing, dress in a fashionable way, etc
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    lol @ this thread.

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    That was interesting to read as I'm an ISFp and my mother is INTp...
    Basically what was written above as ILI's view on Alpha SFs is what drove me nuts when I was a teenager/young adult and still sometimes pushes my buttons when I speak with my mum. I agree with a lot (not everything) of what @Reficulris wrote in answer

    From my experience it sometimes feels like we think very similarly but use different word constructs to say pretty much the same thing. It led to many (unnecessary) conflicts in the past. I noticed it before learning about socionics and then reading about super-ego relations was like "oh! uhuh! so true!"
    Recently when we were talking I could clearly see that I was saying sth and then my mum was questioning it/as if contraditcing when really we were thinking the same and just expressing it differently. When she was getting frustrated I pointed this out saying "You do realise that we're both saying the same thing but just in different words, right?" - upon hearing this she actually stopped mid-sentence to think and then said - "Yeah, you know, you're actually right, that is what's happening>" The rest of the conversation was much easier.

    Having said that - this happens when we discuss/analyse sth together.
    There are of course other situations when we just value the opposite things and this really illustrates Gamma/Alpha quadra values quite well. The fact that in Enneagram she's quite clearly sp first and I'm (most likely) sp last - doesn't help things tbh.

    Having said that, here's my take on what @Phantom Shadow wrote:
     
    It's gonna be long - one of the things that annoys ILIs - they're much more efficent in speech/writing, whereas I also go roundabout...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    I hang out with alphas all the time we get along alright for the most part. Except when we have to work together.
    I enjoy hanging out with an ILI friend and my Gamma parents, but working together probably wouldn't be too good of an idea.

    Too much goofing around, endless pranks and jokes at inappropriate times.
    yeah, ime Gammas tend to perceive Alphas as people who should finally grow up, while Alphas consider Gammas too stiff.
    That doesn't change the fact that we sometimes goof around and some of the funniest exchanges are between myself and ILI when we twist and turn word games.

    Unwillingness to burn bridges with those that are abusive, disrespectful, manipulative, and deceitful.
    This doesn't happen with people I don't care about. But when smn somehow managed to become close to me it is really difficult for me to cut them out of my life when I realise who they really are. And the period of wishful thinking that "maybe I am wrong", "maybe they didn't really mean it", "maybe this was just a misunderstanding" is way too long tbh. The ILIs I know manage to shorten this period - and actually sometimes helped me realise that I've really done everything "right" and it's "out of my hands" and "time to let go".
    Every time that someone who pretended to be friend proves not being one is heartbreaking for me and that's why it lasts so long. It's all or nothing, so when I do open up it really is all out and hurts very much to cut out someone from my life.

    (Having access to these people support and resources are more important than protecting allies and themselves.)
    funnily enough this is sth I observed in both some Gammas and some Alphas and didn't like this behaviour/motivation in neither of the quadras

    Unwilling to stand up for themselves and those they care about. Backing down when the situation get too tense.
    I might back down when it comes to myself and I feel like it's not worth it, this person means nothing to me anyway and we're not hanging around together. Although I won't sit silent altogether but I'm just weighing options whether I care enough to act.
    I'm also sometimes too quicktempered tbh so the above attitude is sth I had to learn, it didn't come naturally.

    When it comes to my friends/family - it's a very very bad idea to try and hurt/abuse them. I might back down when it comes to just me being hurt. When smn's nasty towards those dear to me I lash out, no backing down.

    Too forgiving and trusting of those who purposeful harmed them or their comrades.
    To those who hurt me - sometimes yes, less and less as years go by. To those that hurt my close ones - nope. Only if those who were hurt already forgave smn and are actually asking me to let it go as they aren't bothered anymore and neither should I.

    A general lack of and commitment to their principles, philosophies, and ideologies.
    I'm firm on my beliefs. I do change my mind sometimes but only when it's well thought through. I'm probably one of the people most set on my values out the people I know.

    An inability to consistently meet goals, objectives, and deadlines; easily distracted and often unproductive with excessive procrastination.
    Guilty of procrastination and sometimes missing deadlines. Nevertheless I was praised for productiveness quite a few times. I'll sit through the night to ulfill a promise if needed.
    It also depends on the goal/objective. I have a strong need to work in field of interest or at least for my work to have a visible effect and make some sense to me, then I get immersed in it. If it's just bureaucracy and a mess I'm less likely to be productive.

    Overly concerned with personal pleasures, and enjoyment; hedonistic behaviors and tendencies.
    What does it mean overly? Tbh this is very subjective and I can understand that someone's passion is strongly linked with their work, but I'm also ok with smn enjoying other things.
    I want to "live", "taste and feel life" and not just go to work, earn money, go home, relax, spend money on vacation and again and again... I'm perfectly ok with some of my friends living this way and accept it, funnily enough some of them didn't perceive the way I live my life "the right way". I quite frankly don't understand the valuation. Whatever doesn't hurt other people and makes you happy - can be your way of life. I'd rather have more freedom...

    Quick to quit or abandon commitments and responsibilities if they become too stressful, or inconvenient. Or if something more interesting and new appears.
    It depends on the general situation. I tend to stay too long in a situation that's unhealthy because I feel compelled to fulfill commitments. With time I learned that it's sometimes just not worth it - but I'm talking about bullying and mobbing, not just regular "life".

    Very dependent on external displays of emotion to assess mood, and motives.
    Probably true, difficult for me to assess this in myself.

    Alpha XSFx can be very emotionally demanding of those around them.
    When unhealthy yes - I've seen it some people and hated it as much as everyone else did. Worse I've seen was in extroverted grandparent and a toxic so-called "friend".
    Admittedly when under heavy stres that probably applies to me too. That's a part of why I want to live my life "my way" as I don't want to be under heavy stress in hostile environments.

    Difficulty addressing serious, grim, sensitive contraversial, taboo, and obscene topic in mature, respectful manner.
    I don't think this applies to me. But I think it has a lot to do with maturity of both parties and respecting different "modes of communication" - meaning the ability to listen to what another person is sayin, not necessarily how - which seems to me to be the most difficult part of Gamma-Alpha communication.


    Pffft - done.

    oh, and my dad is ESI and he was usually the "translator" cause he can understand both me and my ILI mum much better than we both understand each other. From his perspective our misunderstandings were sometimes even humorous...

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    I find quadras unreliable

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    Alphas got all the undesirable personality traits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    I hang out with alphas all the time we get along alright for the most part. Except when we have to work together.

    Some general issues that urise when we're together:

    Too much goofing around, endless pranks and jokes at inappropriate times.

    Unwillingness to burn bridges with those that are abusive, disrespectful, manipulative, and deceitful. (Having access to these people support and resources are more important than protecting allies and themselves.)

    Unwilling to stand up for themselves and those they care about. Backing down when the situation get too tense.

    Too forgiving and trusting of those who purposeful harmed them or their comrades.

    A general lack of and commitment to their principles, philosophies, and ideologies.

    An inability to consistently meet goals, objectives, and deadlines; easily distracted and often unproductive with excessive procrastination.

    Overly concerned with personal pleasures, and enjoyment; hedonistic behaviors and tendencies.

    Quick to quit or abandon commitments and responsibilities if they become too stressful, or inconvenient. Or if something more interesting and new appears.

    Very dependent on external displays of emotion to assess mood, and motives.

    Alpha XSFx can be very emotionally demanding of those around them.

    Difficulty addressing serious, grim, sensitive contraversial, taboo, and obscene topic in mature, respectful manner.
    there is no need to burn bridges hastly, you should not do it unless its the absolute last resort, it just makes life more difficult. Also subtypes and rationality matter here, LII and ESE are incredibly comitted, but for ILE and SEI that only applies for normalizing and dominant subtypes who have enhanced rationality.

    I find quadras useless due to their numerous inconsistencies in general, most people don't even fit them.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    I hang out with alphas all the time we get along alright for the most part. Except when we have to work together.

    Some general issues that urise when we're together:

    Too much goofing around, endless pranks and jokes at inappropriate times.

    Unwillingness to burn bridges with those that are abusive, disrespectful, manipulative, and deceitful. (Having access to these people support and resources are more important than protecting allies and themselves.)

    Unwilling to stand up for themselves and those they care about. Backing down when the situation get too tense.

    Too forgiving and trusting of those who purposeful harmed them or their comrades.

    A general lack of and commitment to their principles, philosophies, and ideologies.

    An inability to consistently meet goals, objectives, and deadlines; easily distracted and often unproductive with excessive procrastination.

    Overly concerned with personal pleasures, and enjoyment; hedonistic behaviors and tendencies.

    Quick to quit or abandon commitments and responsibilities if they become too stressful, or inconvenient. Or if something more interesting and new appears.

    Very dependent on external displays of emotion to assess mood, and motives.

    Alpha XSFx can be very emotionally demanding of those around them.

    Difficulty addressing serious, grim, sensitive contraversial, taboo, and obscene topic in mature, respectful manner.
    Jesus christ you sound boring and anal.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Shadow View Post
    Difficulty addressing serious, grim, sensitive contraversial, taboo, and obscene topic in mature, respectful manner.
    wtf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Alphas got all the undesirable personality traits.
    well, obviously... duh.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    "A person is smart. People are dumb panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    Quadras deal with people rather than a person. Individuals can get along fine from opposing quadras but quadras aren't really concerned with individuals.
    Easy Day

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    The Reclusive Philosopher Phantom Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Jesus christ you sound boring and anal.
    I hang out with alpha on a regular basis, I let them drag me on all their wild, crazy adventures. I might be boring by ENTj standards, but for an INTp I'm pretty interesting. INTp's are generally critical, conservative, cautious and reserved group. We are great at keeping things from getting too out of control. Under the right circumstances we can be quite unpredicible ourselves.
    MBTI: INTJ
    Socionics: Te-ILI
    Enneagram Type: 5w6
    Enneagram Tritype: Head-5, Gut-9, Heart-3
    Instinctal Stacking: Sp/Sx
    Jung's 7 Archetypes: The Rebel/The Revolutionary/The Provocateur
    Political Position: Independent
    Prefered Ecomonic Structure: Pure Capitalism
    Religious and Spiritual Stance: Theosophy/Occultism
    Government Structural Preference: Meritocratic Republic

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    Marshmallow Foru-m chriscorey's Avatar
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    Alpha
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    The only funneh Sociotype is ILI actually. A peculiar kind, that is the one who disregards Quadras, but remains in the bounds of them.

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    Although many Betas have a similarly hostile attitude towards the world (due to the nature of SeNi), I don't really find it grating - in fact, I find their candidness refreshing. This isn't the impression I get from Gammas, however..although I can still admire their willingness to defend their beliefs at the face of opposition (even if they're different from my own), and can relate to their Democratic view of the world.
    Last edited by suedehead; 03-04-2014 at 06:32 PM.

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    Marshmallow Foru-m chriscorey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    The only funneh Sociotype is ILI actually. A peculiar kind, that is the one who disregards Quadras, but remains in the bounds of them.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    I'm not going to go into a battle of wits with you, sissycorey. I never attack any one who is unarmed.
    Last edited by Absurd; 03-04-2014 at 06:32 PM.

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    Marshmallow Foru-m chriscorey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'm not going to go into a battle of with with you, sissycorey. I never attack any one who is unarmed.
    Okay. Call me a sissy and walk away... walk away.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    Okay. Call me a sissy and walk away... walk away.
    Sissy.

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