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Thread: My therapist: Sympathetic ENTp, or ENFp?

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Default My therapist: Sympathetic ENTp, or ENFp?

    While he's able to sympathize and mirror other's emotion, I never get the sense that he has many serious ethical convictions in the way I'd expect an ENFp to...he seems flexible when it comes to that sort of thing. He's usually pretty jolly and likes to use humorous tangents related to sociological/psychological phenomena to ease up tension (which I usually appreciate), although he's capable of putting on a serious face when it's clear that a patient is going through distress..

    Is this atypical for ENTps? I otherwise would've thought he was my dual based on the chemistry we have, but ENTp's are apparently not supposed to be good with dealing with ethical topics...

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    "ENTP's are not good with ethical topics" what does this mean?

    I think an ILE could be a therapist, why not? Might not be too common though I've met all types in psychology class and I fullfill the same function to a lot of people around me.

    ENFPs are more commonly found though.

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    suedehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    "ENTP's are not good with ethical topics" what does this mean?

    I think an ILE could be a therapist, why not? Might not be too common though I've met all types in psychology class and I fullfill the same function to a lot of people around me.

    ENFPs are more commonly found though.
    I would've thought so based on the fact that they're Fi POLR...

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    it's not unusual for types with "inert" ethics to hold onto some static-y principles and be unyielding in their defense

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    I'm not sure there, silky, but wouldn't ILEs be the ones in need of therapy?

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    I would've thought so based on the fact that they're Fi POLR...
    Well, they could use Ne to give people different perspectives that help them out of their rut. They could use Ti to check people's cognitive strategies for dealing with the world.

    not all therapy is Fi.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    I would've thought so based on the fact that they're Fi POLR...
    polr isn't really like that. The domain of ethics isn't just , it's also .

    Take a look at filatova description about polr.

    Quote Originally Posted by ILE
    The ILE feels nervously in the sphere of human relations. He usually interprets his relations badly, therefore he allows relations to develop with care, he waits until he learns something for sure rather than assuming. Thus he behaves with restraint in front of people he doesn’t know.
    He cannot always discern the state of another person; he may therefore offend others in the manner by which he expresses what he’s discovered for he doesn’t seem to take into account other’s feelings in regards to the situation. But this is never the consequence of evil intent, envy or arrogance. ILE simply believes that he is speaking about something objectively, and that the truth will not offend anyone…
    ILE places vast value on the decency of a person. The criterion of decency, as a rule, is overstated. If someone seeks his company he assumes that mutual respect exists. He strongly suffers offense and injustice. He will not reconcile with others, unless the offender apologizes before him.
    ILE frequently has a wide circle of friends. He loves to consider different problems with them. They, alongside reading, radio and television, provide him with an excellent source of information.
    ILE's have ethics as inert functions, which makes decisions they make on this topic strong and rigid, however this thinking could be anything from total amorality to a sort of prudish scrupulousness. I would say that ILE's can be fine in counselling and from what I understand Aushra the developer of socionics did do some work in this area. ILE's are business like types and can maintain a level of formal professionalism in their interactions which can mask any sort of personal inclinations.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    I resonate a lot with the OP. One of my biggest strengths has been understanding the essence of individuals, their motivations, personality, learning style, approach to life. Many people in my life have me as their go-to person or confidante with their problems, and usually feel inspired by my advice and find benefit from following my suggestions. For a long time i believed myself to be an IEE because of this, until recently when it was pointed out to me that this is not necessarily driven by Fi. In fact several ILE descriptions note that ILEs are some of the best psychoanalysts of the socion.

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    What kind of therapy are you going for? If it's psychoanalysis, do you feel like it's helped?


    Description of him is pretty short ...so not sure of type. Maybe ILE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    What kind of therapy are you going for? If it's psychoanalysis, do you feel like it's helped?


    Description of him is pretty short ...so not sure of type. Maybe ILE?
    I guess Talk-therapy? It was okay, but I got stubborn towards the end and didn't want to see him anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suedehead
    While he's able to sympathize and mirror other's emotion, I never get the sense that he has many serious ethical convictions in the way I'd expect an ENFp to...he seems flexible when it comes to that sort of thing. He's usually pretty jolly and likes to use humorous tangents related to sociological/psychological phenomena to ease up tension (which I usually appreciate), although he's capable of putting on a serious face when it's clear that a patient is going through distress..
    This is just my idea, but I think this sounds like it could be the 2-dimensional ethics you'd expect of ENTp, and it sounds like Fe, not Fi, which makes sense if you are considering ILE for him. The only thing is I have no indicator whether he's Se, Ne, etc, but your question is mostly about ethics. He is mirroring emotions, easing tension, putting on a serious face when needed. It's all responding to emotional moods present in the room based on an ethical judgment of appropriateness. Notice how it's all about adapting to the flow of the emotional state in time. Here's the difference with ILI. ILI ethics is much more about fixed universal truths, like knowing there is an inherent thing about one individual and an object or another individual which implies a need/attraction. They are less responsive in the way the ethics of emotions tends to promote. The range of emotional states and moods they pay attention to is low: it may be essentially black and white, and they don't want to have to adapt to anything.

    It sounds like his ethics is a means to an end, like you say, not the serious conviction you'd expect of IEE - not the serious ethical focus you might expect.

    People's careers also don't always reflect the type simply because a career is so hugely a function of the opportunities you have in life, not your innate disposition.
    Anyway, not much reading on the exact type except that Fe sounds right from this. Like Augusta, as was mentioned before - I can believe she's Ne+Ti without knowing her, because socionics seriously gives that vibe, and assuming the person fits the theory, yet she did similar counseling work apparently. I think careers can definitely make us make use of our lesser preferred IE.

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    Even working with the assumption that Fi PoLR causes a disconnect from others' feelings and motivations, a ton of psychology is based on conceptual systems and theoretical models. Some psychology is straight up empirical science.
    Last edited by xerx; 09-18-2014 at 03:01 AM.
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    I tend to find that a common manifestation of the function exclusions is that you attain only basic awareness of the one side. The reason for this is that, while you are perceiving, in general you're just perceiving. When, however, you find that you are perceiving with some general direction in mind, you respond spontaneously to contents hitting your awareness in a way as to turn the awareness in accordance with said general direction.

    What thus occurs is that you still attain knowledge of the opposite side of functioning, only it is more fragmented and much of the less basic associations you could've formed are suppressed from awareness. Instead, in place, you make (not deliberated in the case of perception) many less basic associations in the opposite sector. That is, the basic fragments on one side (say sensation) are merely evocative in the end, evocative of something which then gets filled out by intuition.
    The reverse can occur too, whereby an intuition's basic fragments form, upon noting a sense perception, but these fragments are immediately linked in the mind to definite sense stimuli, and any further associations made to occur in the awareness form around the sensory aspect of cognition.

    All this can be repeated for feeling/thinking. Hence, it isn't that the emotional part of the brain is necessarily shut down fully, only that it is tied much more to automated processes than deliberated ones when it attains expression. It's very similar to how some intuitive types can let instinctual urges to enjoy a good meal drive them to do the requisite sensation (which they may pass on more to thinking or feeling) in order to acquire an excellent meal.
    It's possible for basic emotional awareness to occur, in the logic type, just as the intuitive type may attain basic sensory awareness, only much as this basic sensory awareness gets peered around into intuitive perceptions generally, the logic type is more likely to "explain" the emotional clues by associating a coherent logical expression of the situation to it.

    I imagine psychologically intelligent logic type may have more above average awareness of the basic ways in which feelings interplay in the psyche, much as an intuitively inclined logic type who works as a physics theorist who likes his physics to actually reflect reality may have an above average instinct in terms of conducting empirical observations requiring above average command over using the senses to this aim. Basically, cognitive processes generally have a motivation corresponding to the structure of the psyche, and the former's aim may be to form a logical model of the psyche, rather than to elaborate a relatable ethics.

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    I think ENTps can make good therapists. I have an ENTp friend who is in school to become a hospital counselor. Both of them are just more in touch with their Fe most likely.

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    I think in the future i will end up with an Ni therapist. So far most have been ethicals and a couple of Logicals; depending on their type (in general) some are far better at getting me to open up because they can tell when I am saying, "I'm fine" that I am not really fine. Sometimes I just don't want to talk. My current ESE therapist is good at getting me to talk because she brightens my mood even when I feel "dark" inside. Weird thing is that after a short while my therapists (most) end up with me analyzing them and me listening to their problems. Not an issue usually because I like when they open up and they let me respond and share my ideas with them. It is actually kind of rewarding for me when I give them my perspective on a situation and they tell me I am right and they had not seen it that way before.

    I think I may have had an ILE therapist. He was a religious man and he could intuitively pick up on some things but they seemed very superficial to me but he was failing to see the deeper meaning behind my words and actions. his advice and diagnose left me flat so I asked for another therapist. His advice might have been practical for some but did not fit me. When all else failed with me he actually started praying with me at the end of sessions which was off putting but I appreciated the gesture and went along with it. I mean that is sort of weird that a therapist would go in that direction and I never had that happen before. This was unorthodox to say the least and possibly unethical for him to try and influence any religious beliefs I might have had.

    He was good at putting pieces together but then his logical interpretation of what was really happening was too logical for me. Seemed that his logic made him check symptoms and put them into categories or something. I did not feel understood but he had a comforting fatherly feel to him that made me reluctant to stop therapy with him. I had to look at the situation objectively to see that there was some kind of intuitve father/daughter dynamic going on, since he was way older than me, and not a therapist/client relationship. I felt like in a way he pitied me and found my Ni ramblings delusional and would tell me some were demonically influenced.. :/ He was supportive but I had the sense that he was put off by my expressing my personal sentiments in any way. In that way he was dismissive and would stop me dead in my tracks and respond with his demonstrative. It felt like I used my demonstrative in defense somehow, when my base was not getting me anywhere.

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    I would be tempted to try out some experimentation in the name of science. So personal therapy in the long run could be hazardous.
    Well meaning but you know the fear of new things in some people and it would be analytical solving with very little practicality.
    Yes, every people is different and I could adjust to that if there were enough room for new perspectives at times.
    There are people who need little bit of actual concrete Se pushing and I would suck at that.

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