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Thread: Andrew Carnegie

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    Default Andrew Carnegie

    Last edited by silke; 06-11-2014 at 09:17 AM. Reason: updated links

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    I'd hypothesized SLE before. Ti subtype.

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    A very uninformed typing is ESFp, only by a shot read of the biography.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I think LSE is a possibility.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    I've always considered him most likely LIE, but I haven't given his type much consideration, and most of what I know about him is through Napoleon Hill.

    The most popular photos are of him as a chubby old man, and I would tend to think they make him look more genial than he generally did.

    Here's a photo of him when he was young:




    Another less genial photo:



    A side view:



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    Andrew Carnegie quotes:

    Aim for the highest.

    All honor's wounds are self-inflicted.

    And while the law of competition may be sometimes hard for the individual, it is best for the race, because it ensures the survival of the fittest in every department.

    As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.

    Concentrate your energies, your thoughts and your capital. The wise man puts all his eggs in one basket and watches the basket.

    Concentrate; put all your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket.

    Concentration is my motto - first honesty, then industry, then concentration.

    Do not look for approval except for the consciousness of doing your best.

    Do your duty and a little more and the future will take care of itself.

    Every act you have ever performed since the day you were born was performed because you wanted something.

    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave.

    I resolved to stop accumulating and begin the infinitely more serious and difficult task of wise distribution.

    I shall argue that strong men, conversely, know when to compromise and that all principles can be compromised to serve a greater principle.

    I would as soon leave my son a curse as the almighty dollar.

    Immense power is acquired by assuring yourself in your secret reveries that you were born to control affairs.

    Mr. Morgan buys his partners; I grow my own.

    No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for doing it.

    No person will make a great business who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit.

    People who are unable to motivate themselves must be content with mediocrity, no matter how impressive their other talents.

    Surplus wealth is a sacred trust which its possessor is bound to administer in his lifetime for the good of the community.

    The 'morality of compromise' sounds contradictory. Compromise is usually a sign of weakness, or an admission of defeat. Strong men don't compromise, it is said, and principles should never be compromised.

    The average person puts only 25% of his energy and ability into his work. The world takes off its hat to those who put in more than 50% of their capacity, and stands on its head for those few and far between souls who devote 100%.

    The first man gets the oyster, the second man gets the shell.

    The man who acquires the ability to take full possession of his own mind may take possession of anything else to which he is justly entitled.

    The men who have succeeded are men who have chosen one line and stuck to it.

    The way to become rich is to put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket.

    There is little success where there is little laughter.

    There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else.

    Think of yourself as on the threshold of unparalleled success. A whole, clear, glorious life lies before you. Achieve! Achieve!

    Whatever I engage in, I must push inordinately.

    You cannot push anyone up the ladder unless he is willing to climb.

    You must capture and keep the heart of the original and supremely able man before his brain can do its best.

    There is no use whatever trying to help people who do not help themselves. You cannot push anyone up a ladder unless he be willing to climb himself.
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    Lse.
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    I find his quotes horrible and useless.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    You disagree with their content on a visceral level (their horribleness) or unreflective of his view of the world (useless for typing purposes) or perhaps the poster of the quotes colors your perception?
    Moonlight will fall
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    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    You disagree with their content on a visceral level (their horribleness) or unreflective of his view of the world (useless for typing purposes) or perhaps the poster of the quotes colors your perception?
    Ahah, I don't know about the thir, it's a possibility but not under my conscious scrutiny.

    I both dislike them on a visceral level, and also dislike the conception of the world that stems from them (or that, eventually, originates them perhaps - depends if the person takes them as guiding principles or as observations of his own life). Generally, I don't see why a person should dedicate his life to "achieving" and "being always productive" as a conscious aim. This is not to say it's something that can't happen, just that they seem to place excessive emphasis on that point, IMHO.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Well that's reasonable. We all navigate by our own compasses. I do think that what you've picked out from them might itself be telling however. A useful insight to be sure.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Well that's reasonable. We all navigate by our own compasses. I do think that what you've picked out from them might itself be telling however. A useful insight to be sure.
    What do you mean?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    What do you mean?
    I'm assuming you're asking about the insight?

    I was refering to your observations of his ardent desire to achieve and produce results as the conscious work of his life. While not in itself indicative of his type, what we choose to direct our energies towards effectively is, and I think you hit upon a motivation of his (though it would seem rather foreign to your own view of the world). Is that helpful at all?

    In socionics terms, I think this is an argument for ego Te of some type (maybe more so leading than creative, given the naturalness and pervasiveness of it all). I would think that given his biography this would narrow it down somewhat, perhaps to ExTj.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    I'm assuming you're asking about the insight?

    I was refering to your observations of his ardent desire to achieve and produce results as the conscious work of his life. While not in itself indicative of his type, what we choose to direct our energies towards effectively is, and I think you hit upon a motivation of his (though it would seem rather foreign to your own view of the world). Is that helpful at all?

    In socionics terms, I think this is an argument for ego Te of some type (maybe more so leading than creative, given the naturalness and pervasiveness of it all). I would think that given his biography this would narrow it down somewhat, perhaps to ExTj.
    Oh yes, yes I agree.

    I wouldn't even say I find it foreign, but more like, I find the paths towards it to be different from his. Anyway, to each his own, and he seems to have gone a long way following his own guidelines, so kudos to him
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    He has that typical ESE Cosby face.

    However, I think EXTj would make much more sense.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    gah, i should have thought to post at least that. good way to present a quick cross-section of someone. (cross-section being the key word. i'm particularly interested in this typing so i didn't want to lead anyone with my own selective summary.)

    Logos, could you ellaborate on why a judicious quadra?
    What do you mean by judicious quadra?
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    I have a very difficult time seeing him as having a Ni PoLR.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Seems ESTj from an impression of his short biographies.
    PoLR
    Suggestive Function

    Regular Double-shot Espresso Subtype

    Just because I'm a thinking type doesn't mean I'm not an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I have a very difficult time seeing him as having a Ni PoLR.
    Your shortcomings do not necessarily change the outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    sorry, Reinin jargon. why Si/Ne-valuing?
    He reminds me of a Thomas Edison of the business world. He seems to have a very "hands on" approach and his quotes generally reflect an interest in the human potential () for the greatest productivity (), and seemed to show a much greater concern for . He also seemed to have strong and ambition, but in an undervalued sense that instead focused more along the lines of self-improvement for himself and aiding in the self-improvement of others.
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    I see a definite focus on underlying/far reaching cause and effect relationships in his quotes. I'm certainly not seeing anything that would suggest a focus on immediate/physical cause and effect relationships > underlying/far reaching cause and effect relationships.
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    What I see in these quotes:


    Aim for the highest. EJ

    All honor's wounds are self-inflicted. Te/Fi > Ti/Fe, Democracy (see thread about "honor")

    And while the law of competition may be sometimes hard for the individual, it is best for the race, because it ensures the survival of the fittest in every department. Te, Ni

    As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do. Te

    Concentrate your energies, your thoughts and your capital. The wise man puts all his eggs in one basket and watches the basket.
    Rationality, Ni > Si (can you seriously see someone with a Ni PoLR saying this???)

    Concentration is my motto - first honesty, then industry, then concentration.
    Fi/Ti, Te, rationality

    Do not look for approval except for the consciousness of doing your best. Te/Fi > Ti/Fe, democracy, rationality

    Do your duty and a little more and the future will take care of itself. Ni (depends on what is meant by "do your duty" though of course)

    Every act you have ever performed since the day you were born was performed because you wanted something. Ni

    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave.
    intelligence
    I resolved to stop accumulating and begin the infinitely more serious and difficult task of wise distribution. Ni > Si in the way he did it... he told Napoleon Hill that he'd find ways to give it all away "without doing any damage", showing concern for the long term or underlying cause and effect relationships involved

    I shall argue that strong men, conversely, know when to compromise and that all principles can be compromised to serve a greater principle. not sure, probably related to Ti or Fi

    I would as soon leave my son a curse as the almighty dollar. Ni > Si (this may seem like a Ne > Se thing to say, but my reasons that the quote before last is Ni > Si applies here as well

    Immense power is acquired by assuring yourself in your secret reveries that you were born to control affairs. Se hidden agenda

    Mr. Morgan buys his partners; I grow my own. depends on his reasons and methods

    No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for doing it. and No person will make a great business who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit. an LSE may not care about getting credit, but he would want to do it all himself

    People who are unable to motivate themselves must be content with mediocrity, no matter how impressive their other talents.
    Ni > Si (because LSE's strive to be as normal as possible)

    Surplus wealth is a sacred trust which its possessor is bound to administer in his lifetime for the good of the community. could be a lot of things, but I can see an argument for Delta

    The 'morality of compromise' sounds contradictory. Compromise is usually a sign of weakness, or an admission of defeat. Strong men don't compromise, it is said, and principles should never be compromised.
    Fi, possibly unvalued Ne

    The average person puts only 25% of his energy and ability into his work. The world takes off its hat to those who put in more than 50% of their capacity, and stands on its head for those few and far between souls who devote 100%.
    EJ, Te

    The first man gets the oyster, the second man gets the shell.
    Ni or Si, depending on whether he's literally talking about an oyster or not

    The man who acquires the ability to take full possession of his own mind may take possession of anything else to which he is justly entitled. intelligence, wisdom, possibly Ni

    The men who have succeeded are men who have chosen one line and stuck to it. rationality, possible unvalued Ni, depending on the context

    There is little success where there is little laughter. could be Si or Ni (one could argue that Ni is more likely to see that connection)

    There is no class so pitiably wretched as that which possesses money and nothing else.
    human

    Think of yourself as on the threshold of unparalleled success. A whole, clear, glorious life lies before you. Achieve! Achieve!
    EJ

    Whatever I engage in, I must push inordinately.
    EJ

    There is no use whatever trying to help people who do not help themselves. You cannot push anyone up the ladder unless he is willing to climb. definitely Ni > Si (can you seriously see someone with a dual with a Se PoLR saying this???) a Si type's inclination would be to carry the person up the ladder

    You must capture and keep the heart of the original and supremely able man before his brain can do its best.
    Ni > Si, could be (such as Fi or Fe) other things depending on the context
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    This is not worth my effort or best interests to argue, so I will concede.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    There is no use whatever trying to help people who do not help themselves. You cannot push anyone up the ladder unless he is willing to climb. definitely Ni > Si (can you seriously see someone with a dual with a Se PoLR saying this???) a Si type's inclination would be to carry the person up the ladder
    It's actually Si>Ni. It's the Ni person who needs to be pushed up the ladder in spite of his unwillingness to do so.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    It's actually Si>Ni. It's the Ni person who needs to be pushed up the ladder in spite of his unwillingness to do so.
    I suppose I should have said Ni/Se > Si/Ne. Regardless, that is not the attitude of the dual of someone with a Se PoLR.

    And since when is refusal to be proactive a trait of LIE's and EIE's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I suppose I should have said Ni/Se > Si/Ne. Regardless, that is not the attitude of the dual of someone with a Se PoLR.

    And since when is refusal to be proactive a trait of LIE's and EIE's?
    Are you certain?
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    Completely certain? No. I don't think such a thing is possible. However, according to my understanding of the quote and my understanding of Socionics, it's extremely unlikely that Andrew Carnegie was LSE (or any other Si/Ne type).
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    Default Andrew Carnegie

    I was thinking maybe dominant, possibly even LSE
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Aristocratic ST no doubt. I could see SLE-Se so/sp.

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    After I made my previous post (which I think has been merged into this thread), I saw at least one MBTI website had typed him ESFJ
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

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    Wow. Reading my old posts makes my head hurt.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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