Enneagram question regarding 2s, 4s, 8s and 9s - which type am I?

[aisa]

If I've been told (I'm a female) that I come across irl as "sharper" than a 9w8 male but "softer" than a 8w7 male - therefore which type of the following is for me more likely - 8w9 or 2w1? Or maybe this is actually me being a 4w5 and navel gazing? (I'm not saying no to that as 2w1 and 4w5 were the types I was earlier considering).
At first sight I come across as withdrawn, don't have a dramatic "aura". Don't seek conflict but deal with it head on, can argue the 8w7 male irl one moment and when "the dust settles" laugh about the disagreement or sth else a moment later.
I'm interested in answers with examples from reality or just pure speculation (if backed up with links, even better).
What are your thoughts? What comes to mind as the first thing?
If the description's too scarce I'll try to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge.

[The Foundation]

@aisa

When faced with a problem, are you the type of person that rushes to fix the problem at any cost and meet it head-on, are you the type of person to withdraw from a problem and see if it fixes itself and to minimize its effects on you, or are you the type of person who does what you feel is right no matter what?

[aisa]

When faced with a problem, are you the type of person that rushes to fix the problem at any cost and meet it head-on,

Usually, yes. Although I wouldn't say "at any cost" as this is a very vast statement. Over the course of the years I tried to get more and more diplomatic.
When there's a conflict or a misunderstanding I want to solve it right away. I believe letting things 'brew' tends to worsen the situation. I prefer to know why smn is angry with me as this gives a chance for explanation and may lead to mutual understanding. If I am annoyed with smn my initial instinct is to go and tell the person and resolve the situation right away. I'd rather speak face to face and have a chance of clarifying sth that might actually be a misunderstanding, rather than letting two people stay on opposite sides of the barricade, while chances are there is actually no good reason for that (other than different ways of thinking and expressing oneselves, but no ill will).
One of the most annoying things to me is when smn unleashes their long brewing grievances but can't give any examples of behaviour that actually made them feel bad. This is pointless as it gives zero chance to the other person to improve their behaviour if they weren't purposedly trying to annoy anyone. Cause they just don't know what it was that they did that smn considered hurtful.
I don't believe in sweeping things "under the rug".

are you the type of person to withdraw from a problem and see if it fixes itself and to minimize its effects on you,

No, not if I listen to my instincts.
I sometimes do this, and more so with years, but usually when I know that I'm dealing with someone who is incapable of having a discussion where two parties actually reach some kind of a conclusion (even if it is "let's agree to disagree"). Or if I just simply don't care about the person enough "to be bothered". I used to confront bullies. Now I find them unimportant in my life and let them thrive in their own dramas.
Having said that - I do avoid bullies, unless the situation forces me to confront them, then I do and I state my case. Also, if smn tries to hurt smn dear to me, I won't just sit silently and be a spectator.
It annoys me when I deal with smn who's instant reaction is always 'to sit this one out' and not state their opinion, even when smn's bullying them or their close ones.

or are you the type of person who does what you feel is right no matter what?

This is quite vague so I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by this statement. But if I understood you right - usually I combine the first statement with this one. So I deal with conflict situation whilst trying not to compromise my beliefs and what I feel is right.


to add (from a conversation with my SO):
I have a "short fuse" and get angry easily (or: easier than a 9w8 or 1w2 people I know) but learned not to express it unless the situation really calls for it. You could call me a sleeping volcano. Most people I meet consider me calm and don't get a chance to be proven otherwise. I have more self-control in expressing anger than an 8w7 I know (I think, lol).
If smn knows what to look for in my face, then it's obvious when I am near to the boil. I am making conscious efforts not to show it (not always efficient, sometimes my face "speaks volumes", but I just keep my mouth shut. This applies to strangers and family members I don't know well. Or just situations where I realise the thing that annoys me is actually sth petty - i.e. when I'm driving. Admittedly, I use the horn.).
I guess as I learned exploding is damaging to interpersonal relations, I usually "implode" (i.e. count in my thoughts, tell myself sarcastically in my thoughts that "I am oh just so so sooo calm right now...!"). Then again probably a lot of people feel this way. I think I tend to feel this way quite often though. My SO once gave me a lioness toy as a joke (referring both to my hair at the stage before it looks presentable, and my way of being).


Any thoughts? Additional questions? Did my answers clarify anything or did I just make it all more murky?
Thank you for taking your time to read this and help me figure this one out.

[aisa]

bump...

[The Foundation]

Usually, yes. Although I wouldn't say "at any cost" as this is a very vast statement. Over the course of the years I tried to get more and more diplomatic.
When there's a conflict or a misunderstanding I want to solve it right away. I believe letting things 'brew' tends to worsen the situation. I prefer to know why smn is angry with me as this gives a chance for explanation and may lead to mutual understanding. If I am annoyed with smn my initial instinct is to go and tell the person and resolve the situation right away. I'd rather speak face to face and have a chance of clarifying sth that might actually be a misunderstanding, rather than letting two people stay on opposite sides of the barricade, while chances are there is actually no good reason for that (other than different ways of thinking and expressing oneselves, but no ill will).
One of the most annoying things to me is when smn unleashes their long brewing grievances but can't give any examples of behaviour that actually made them feel bad. This is pointless as it gives zero chance to the other person to improve their behaviour if they weren't purposedly trying to annoy anyone. Cause they just don't know what it was that they did that smn considered hurtful.
I don't believe in sweeping things "under the rug".


No, not if I listen to my instincts.
I sometimes do this, and more so with years, but usually when I know that I'm dealing with someone who is incapable of having a discussion where two parties actually reach some kind of a conclusion (even if it is "let's agree to disagree"). Or if I just simply don't care about the person enough "to be bothered". I used to confront bullies. Now I find them unimportant in my life and let them thrive in their own dramas.
Having said that - I do avoid bullies, unless the situation forces me to confront them, then I do and I state my case. Also, if smn tries to hurt smn dear to me, I won't just sit silently and be a spectator.
It annoys me when I deal with smn who's instant reaction is always 'to sit this one out' and not state their opinion, even when smn's bullying them or their close ones.


This is quite vague so I'm not sure if I understood what you meant by this statement. But if I understood you right - usually I combine the first statement with this one. So I deal with conflict situation whilst trying not to compromise my beliefs and what I feel is right.


to add (from a conversation with my SO):
I have a "short fuse" and get angry easily (or: easier than a 9w8 or 1w2 people I know) but learned not to express it unless the situation really calls for it. You could call me a sleeping volcano. Most people I meet consider me calm and don't get a chance to be proven otherwise. I have more self-control in expressing anger than an 8w7 I know (I think, lol).
If smn knows what to look for in my face, then it's obvious when I am near to the boil. I am making conscious efforts not to show it (not always efficient, sometimes my face "speaks volumes", but I just keep my mouth shut. This applies to strangers and family members I don't know well. Or just situations where I realise the thing that annoys me is actually sth petty - i.e. when I'm driving. Admittedly, I use the horn.).
I guess as I learned exploding is damaging to interpersonal relations, I usually "implode" (i.e. count in my thoughts, tell myself sarcastically in my thoughts that "I am oh just so so sooo calm right now...!"). Then again probably a lot of people feel this way. I think I tend to feel this way quite often though. My SO once gave me a lioness toy as a joke (referring both to my hair at the stage before it looks presentable, and my way of being).


Any thoughts? Additional questions? Did my answers clarify anything or did I just make it all more murky?
Thank you for taking your time to read this and help me figure this one out.

This suggests complying triad (called such because they appease their super-ego) first, and those types are 1, 2, and 6. The 1 compromises with the super-ego by always doing what is believed to be morally and ethically correct no matter what (they try to stay infallible). The 2 compromises with the super-ego by always looking out for others and always be of service to others, yet they don't ask for help in return because it would make them feel guilty and shameful (going against fixation of pride). The 6 is more complicated due to the Prussian, Counterphobic, and Phobic inclinations, and I don't have the information for it right now.

The short fuse you speak of could be aggressive triad first (3, 7, and 8), but you could also have a strong connection to your aggressive fix as well.

[aisa]

This suggests complying triad (called such because they appease their super-ego) first, and those types are 1, 2, and 6. The 1 compromises with the super-ego by always doing what is believed to be morally and ethically correct no matter what (they try to stay infallible). The 2 compromises with the super-ego by always looking out for others and always be of service to others, yet they don't ask for help in return because it would make them feel guilty and shameful (going against fixation of pride). The 6 is more complicated due to the Prussian, Counterphobic, and Phobic inclinations, and I don't have the information for it right now.

The short fuse you speak of could be aggressive triad first (3, 7, and 8), but you could also have a strong connection to your aggressive fix as well.

wow, it's interesting what you say, as I was just talking about the super-ego relations with @Soupman in another thread...
I was raised and strongly influenced by Gamma parents - including an ILI E1 mother (so super-ego to me being SEI), which makes the complying triad even more plausible I guess... I can see bits and pieces of myself in all of those types tbh (1, 2 and 6).
Also, I have a very good connection (better than with ILI) with my ESI 8w7 father. Wonder of the influence...
I'm wondering what is more likely - me being a 2w1 with an 8 streak easily accessible when under stress or me being a 6 and just going between various aspects of 6ish behaviours...? I don't quite fathom how 6 would play out irl tbh?

What do you think?

[The Foundation]

wow, it's interesting what you say, as I was just talking about the super-ego relations with @Soupman in another thread...
I was raised and strongly influenced by Gamma parents - including an ILI E1 mother (so super-ego to me being SEI), which makes the complying triad even more plausible I guess... I can see bits and pieces of myself in all of those types tbh (1, 2 and 6).
Also, I have a very good connection (better than with ILI) with my ESI 8w7 father. Wonder of the influence...
I'm wondering what is more likely - me being a 2w1 with an 8 streak easily accessible when under stress or me being a 6 and just going between various aspects of 6ish behaviours...? I don't quite fathom how 6 would play out irl tbh?

What do you think?

6s sort of comply with their super-ego depending on their flavor. Prussian 6s comply with their super-ego by always following the rules and adhering to the system rather than the leaders of the system or any authority (other than the system). Counterphobic 6s comply with their super-ego by always fighting their fears and by attempting to protect their loved ones and the people they are loyal to. Phobic 6s comply with their super-ego by trusting in authority to keep them safe (or something like that, Phobic is the hardest for me to understand). It's interesting because the Prussian 6 is the 6 that resembles a 1, the Counterphobic 6 is the 6 that resembles an 8, and the Phobic 6 is the true 6 (with some 5 elements).

It's possible that you have a 2-8 combination in your trifix, which creates a more emotionally strong 2 and increases the need for self-sufficiency, but your tritype is ordered by your reactions to problem. So if you are complying first, you generally want to do the right thing always (be it the 1, 2, or 6 inclination), and if that fails, you resort to your secondary fix, which can either be a different complying type, an aggressive type, or a withdrawn type.

Also, the super-ego here is not really comparative to super-ego relations in Socionics I don't believe. The Super-Ego here is the actual Freudian part of the psyche that controls your ethics, morality, conscience, and is the inner voice that criticizes your laziness (which doesn't really happen in Id oriented types, especially the 3-7-8, who are triple aggressive and thus triple Id).

[aisa]

6s sort of comply with their super-ego depending on their flavor. Prussian 6s comply with their super-ego by always following the rules and adhering to the system rather than the leaders of the system or any authority (other than the system). Counterphobic 6s comply with their super-ego by always fighting their fears and by attempting to protect their loved ones and the people they are loyal to. Phobic 6s comply with their super-ego by trusting in authority to keep them safe (or something like that, Phobic is the hardest for me to understand). It's interesting because the Prussian 6 is the 6 that resembles a 1, the Counterphobic 6 is the 6 that resembles an 8, and the Phobic 6 is the true 6 (with some 5 elements).

It's possible that you have a 2-8 combination in your trifix, which creates a more emotionally strong 2 and increases the need for self-sufficiency, but your tritype is ordered by your reactions to problem. So if you are complying first, you generally want to do the right thing always (be it the 1, 2, or 6 inclination), and if that fails, you resort to your secondary fix, which can either be a different complying type, an aggressive type, or a withdrawn type.

Also, the super-ego here is not really comparative to super-ego relations in Socionics I don't believe. The Super-Ego here is the actual Freudian part of the psyche that controls your ethics, morality, conscience, and is the inner voice that criticizes your laziness (which doesn't really happen in Id oriented types, especially the 3-7-8, who are triple aggressive and thus triple Id).

I identify with the bolded parts the most.

For some reason I feel this might matter in discerning the types - so here goes an additional description:
I always enjoyed people, but at the same time needed a lot of space and alone time. I knew from an early age (10-12) that I need to feel independent, preferably be my own boss (possibly other people's boss too, but the most important part was being my own boss). At high school when a lot of girls were dating a lot and having a boyfriend was "the thing", I dated too, but quickly made up my mind whether I want to pursue the relationship or not. And if not - I made it clear in the least hurtful manner I could think of and moved on. This led me to being alone most of the time and not minding it as it was a conscious choice - I'd rather be alone than waste my time and someone else's time on pursuing sth I felt had no future. I wanted love but didn't want a relationship for the sake of just not being alone.

I was at one point very much into sports (not anymore due to health reasons that interfered with it and now I'm just a lazy bum I guess) - sports were individual ones and I enjoyed it as long as it was for fun, the moment it started getting serious and competetive was the moment I stopped enjoying it.

I was heavily bullied in primary school but didn't budge and while it was really difficult for me, I still preferred being "the target" than budging and becoming a member of "the group" ran with "rules" I didn't value and agree with. I always stand up for my friends and did so as a child. Overcoming the feelings related with being bullied was eliberating and made me feel stronger and "proud" that I didn't budge earlier.
It also made me drawn to people who were alienated for whatever reasons (I saw a bullied "me" in them) and wanting to lend them some strength and a different perspective to help them get out of their rut. It worked quite a few times leaving me and other people uplifted. Unfortunately it also led me into a very destructive relationship with a person who I think might have been a very unhealthy 4w3. I dealt with conflict head on time and time again. At some point I got tired though. It lasted a little while after that, then we were done as lack of conflict wasn't exciting enough for the other party. And I was a mess, worn out but felt relief it was over.
I'm not a mess anymore as it was years ago and I since then figured out a lot of things in my life (including looking for a way to be my own boss, currently at start point) and found love in a healthy happy relationship.

Hmm... did that description help in typing more precisely by any chance?

[The Foundation]

I identify with the bolded parts the most.

For some reason I feel this might matter in discerning the types - so here goes an additional description:
I always enjoyed people, but at the same time needed a lot of space and alone time. I knew from an early age (10-12) that I need to feel independent, preferably be my own boss (possible other people's boss too, but the most important part was being my own boss). At high school when a lot of girls were dating a lot and having a boyfriend was "the thing", I dated too, but quickly made up my mind whether I want to pursue the relationship or not. And if not - I made it clear in the least hurtful manner I could think of and moved on. This led me to being alone most of the time and not minding it as it was a conscious choice - I'd rather be alone than waste my time and someone else's time on pursuing sth I felt had no future. I wanted love but didn't want a relationship for the sake of just not being alone.

I was at one point very much into sports (not anymore due to health reasons that interfered with it and now I'm just a lazy bum I guess) - sports were individual ones and I enjoyed it as long as it was for fun, the moment it started getting serious and competetive was the moment I stopped enjoying it.

I was heavily bullied in primary school but didn't budge and while it was really difficult for me, I still preferred being "the target" than budging and becoming a member of "the group" ran with "rules" I didn't value and agree with. I always stand up for my friends and did so as a child. Overcoming the feelings related with being bullied was eliberating and made me feel stronger and "proud" that I didn't budge earlier. It also made drawn to people who were alienated for whatever reasons (I saw a bullied "me" in them) and wanting to lend them some strength and a different perspective to help them get out of their rut. It worked quite a few times leaving me and other people uplifted. Unfortunately it also led me into a very destructive relationship with a person who I think might have been a very unhealthy 4w3. I dealt with conflict head on time and time again. At some point I got tired though. It lasted a little while after that, then we were done as lack of conflict wasn't exciting enough for the other party. And I was a mess, worn out but felt relief it was over. I'm not a mess anymore as it was years ago and I since then figured a lot of things out in my life (including looking for a way to be my own boss, currently at start point) and found love in a healthy happy relationship.

Hmm... did that description help in typing more precisely by any chance?

Hmmm.

The description vibes 8-ish, probably 8w9.

Identify with any of this? Remember to look at this objectively, otherwise you'll just be submitting to the Forer Effect.

268 – The Rescuer Archetype

6-2-8
Direct and caring 6, can appear 2ish as these 6s need to be caring to feel safe secure.

‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.

(2)-6-8 - The Reactive 2
2-(6)-8 - The Power-Seeking 6
2-6-(8) - The Compliant 8

This type is characterized by the issues they have with others. They tend to get easily frustrated with others. They want help others but they also want things to go their way. They have a 'let me help you' quality.

268, 682, 826 - The Rescuer: By nature, you want to be in charge of your world and are attracted to the noble cause. You wish to shield others from harm and challenge what is unjust. You want to know the rules to feel safe to break them. Your life mission is to track the needs of the vulnerable and take action on their behalf. A true rescuer, you are happiest when you can use your people skills and desire to protect others to help those that feel alone, desperate and are in a crisis. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with the pride of knowing how to help others that you may give unsolicited advice or meddle in the affairs of others. You over-give to others to be well-liked, which prevents a deeper connection to your true self. Your growing edge is to recognize that always rescuing others does not mean that you will always be liked and cared for in return, and that it may prevent them from learning how to care for themselves. True protection comes from listening to higher guidance and knowing when to assist others and when to let them learn for themselves.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

For example, if you were an 8-7-4, you would have secondary strategies that are very different than an 8-2-6. The 8-7-4 is a fast paced creative, feelingful and optimistic Type 8 whereas the 8-2-6 is a more cynical, loyal and helpful Type 8.
the 874 is a fast-paced, optimistic, creative, and emotional type 8 whereas the 826 is a more dutiful, loyal and helpful type 8.

‎269 and 268 are even more distinctively different. Both are helpful but there is nothing passive about the 268. The 269 is the gentle person archetype. The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.

682
Direct and caring 6. This 6 is very supportive. A true Rescuer, this 6 is often mistaken for a 2 or 8. This 6 needs to be caring and protective to feel secure. This 6 is helpful but uncomfortable taking the lead and would rather be the right hand to the powerful person.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, worthless, needy, unappreciated, and inconsequential.

[682] It is a very dynamic and caring tritype.... the struggle is knowing when the need to rescue interfers with your own well-being

The strongest theme I associate with the 268/682/826 is the need to rescue and protect, but not necessarily put up with problems on an extended basis. It's a kind of in-the-moment problem solving that expects the other to deal with it and move on.

sx/so 268: I will describe this individual as obsessively possessive and domineering, taking on parental roles in most, if not all situations, and the sx/soc simply complete the smother. Most people will find him/her "way too much", like get the hell off me can't you and stop telling me what to do.
For them power is dead important, though it will be more obvious to the observer than to the person him/herself. Both 2 and 6 leads to some issues with denial. 2 main especially will "play innocent" while their power motive is seen by all those who suffered under his/her dominion.
Also all three fixes have a somewhat calculating quality to me. They are definitely not without ulterior motives.
I don't know at all how any specific three types--2/6/8 in this case-- act synergistically. But I do know that each of these at average to lower levels is very controlling in interpersonal relationships, very domineering (including the 6 due to the sx/so), highly reactive, and also explosive when they feel they aren't getting back what they 'deserve'. So my assumption was the obvious: that the synergy would lead to someone controlling to the point of suffocation and high drama.

[aisa]

@The Foundation - thank you for answering. I read your first sentence about being objective and given the length of the text I think I'll read it tomorrow with a clear head (it's late here). Until tomorrow I guess. Thanks for your time!

[kopyk]

It also made me drawn to people who were alienated for whatever reasons (I saw a bullied "me" in them) and wanting to lend them some strength and a different perspective to help them get out of their rut. It worked quite a few times leaving me and other people uplifted. Unfortunately it also led me into a very destructive relationship with a person who I think might have been a very unhealthy 4w3. I dealt with conflict head on time and time again. At some point I got tired though. It lasted a little while after that, then we were done as lack of conflict wasn't exciting enough for the other party. And I was a mess, worn out but felt relief it was over.

I was heavily bullied in primary school but didn't budge and while it was really difficult for me, I still preferred being "the target" than budging and becoming a member of "the group" ran with "rules" I didn't value and agree with. I always stand up for my friends and did so as a child. Overcoming the feelings related with being bullied was eliberating and made me feel stronger and "proud" that I didn't budge earlier.

I guess as I learned exploding is damaging to interpersonal relations, I usually "implode" (i.e. count in my thoughts, tell myself sarcastically in my thoughts that "I am oh just so so sooo calm right now...!"). Then again probably a lot of people feel this way. I think I tend to feel this way quite often though. My SO once gave me a lioness toy as a joke (referring both to my hair at the stage before it looks presentable, and my way of being).

I wanted love but didn't want a relationship for the sake of just not being alone.

looking for a way to be my own boss, currently at start point) and found love in a healthy happy relationship.

Fe-creative, @aisa.

Check out these five links: number 1, number 2, number 3, number 4 and number 5. No need to use this unscientific, messy, forer-effect-inducing enneagram BS!

Remember to look at this objectively, otherwise you'll just be submitting to the Forer Effect.

LUL! as if there's anything "objective" about the mess that is enneagram. Tritypes is just another nail in the coffin that contains that conclusion. enneagramists just want notority and money with that shit I'm sure... As for your sig...

Reintegration. "Non-existence does not exist, for it is an existence in of itself; therefore, non-existence doesn't exist and nor does it not exist."

Humans flying didn't exist before humans invented it, but it was still theoretically possible. Triangle=quadrangle always remains true. Aside from the argument I just presented I'll just say that non-existence is similar to optical-illusions, so not worth taking seriously. Nice attempt at nondualism though.

[kopyk]

from this topic...

In interviews he seems SEI / IEI mostly and then I get stuck.Maybe the fact that I find him so attractive makes the typing more difficult...

From what I've seen, Fe/Ti-valuers aka subjectivists, esp Fe-egos pay a lot of attention to how personal feelings bias things. Subjectivist confirmed...


Regarding the MOTIV stuff I linked earlier I'll add sth...

Edit: Adding this too, even though enneagram is complete trash outclassed by the likes of NPA theory...

[aisa]

Hmmm.

The description vibes 8-ish, probably 8w9.

Identify with any of this? Remember to look at this objectively, otherwise you'll just be submitting to the Forer Effect.

ok, so to my current understanding I might be an 8w9 or I might be a 2w1 and I really don't know with regard to 6, but then again a 6 would probably be likely to not notice being a 6, so therefore I might be some kind of a 6 (can't say which wing as I don't really relate to the descriptions, and even less so as paranoia bubbles up in the ones I've read regardless the wing, and I don't see myself as prone to paranoia. I'd say I tend to be too trusting rather than paranoid and had to "learn" to be a bit more cynical. Ni-dom mother was actually helpful with that, although quite a bit of a kill-joy, too.)

I'm not that big on tritype as it feels like it overcomplicates things - stuff gets blurry and I don't know where the differences are anymore tbh. I'd rather stick to typing with wings and connections between types depending on health or stress.
From what I've read so far, my initial thoughts were that I am a 2w1 (that's why it's mentioned next to my av). However I'm not that sweet on the inside which left an air of uncertainty there. Then when reading about other people's types (9w8 to be precise) I stumbled across a description of 8w9 and at the end they mentioned sth about females being 8s but identifying more with 2s and other types. That made me want to read a bit more. So I did and started wondering... and figured I need another person's perspective (esp. that the 8w9 descriptions seem to be tailored towards men). That's why I started this thread.
My current stance is that I would like to be a 2w1 but can eerily identify with some of the 8w9 descriptions and the way growth and going downhill works in 8s. I might be an 8w9, but it's unlikely for me to be an 8w7.

regarding the part you quoted - hmm... tbh I find it difficult to be that objective when it comes to myself. I can take a step back and try, but in the end it would be other people, who'd probably be able to say whether I am "smothering", etc.

Having said that, if I were to say what sounded a bit familiar, I'd say it was this passage (and the bolded part was indeed sth I learned at some point in life, although I was never too much of a "meddler" as I felt the need to respect other people's boundaries):

268, 682, 826 - The Rescuer: By nature, you want to be in charge of your world and are attracted to the noble cause. You wish to shield others from harm and challenge what is unjust. You want to know the rules to feel safe to break them. Your life mission is to track the needs of the vulnerable and take action on their behalf. A true rescuer, you are happiest when you can use your people skills and desire to protect others to help those that feel alone, desperate and are in a crisis. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with the pride of knowing how to help others that you may give unsolicited advice or meddle in the affairs of others. You over-give to others to be well-liked, which prevents a deeper connection to your true self. Your growing edge is to recognize that always rescuing others does not mean that you will always be liked and cared for in return, and that it may prevent them from learning how to care for themselves. True protection comes from listening to higher guidance and knowing when to assist others and when to let them learn for themselves.

People do come to me in times of crisis and last year there was a situation that made everyone feel on edge and numerous family members told me that I was the one to really handle things. (And I felt on the inside really scared just as they did, but somehow got this burst of energy and just "knew" what to do and how to organise things and help out the ones in need.)

[aisa]

Fe-creative, @aisa.

I know, hence my description next to my av. Although, tbh the description you linked is a mix of healthy and pretty unhealthy traits, sort of everything in one bag. It describes smn who seems extremely dependend on other people's moods and in need of having a strong grasp on everyone's feelings and actions which leads to meddling and manipulation. Those are the two things I really don't like and do my best to not employ them in my life. I use Fe-creative more to help out when there is an outside crisis, rather to create 'drama' to have sth to play around with. I've seen it done by some people and highly dislike it. I'm not perfect and maybe sometimes I do it, although I don't think anyone who knows me would call me a 'drama queen' and that Fe-creative description was very 'drama queen'-ish imho.

Check out these five links: number 1, number 2, number 3, number 4 and number 5.

was this a suggestion that I am NPA (link nr 1)? I've read the whole description. It's not me. I believe I can take a step back enough to see if it was me. Bits and pieces here and there, yes. But the overall description is spot on my grandpa before he aged and mellowed a bit. So it was an overall interesting read.

No need to use this unscientific, messy, forer-effect-inducing enneagram BS!

I don't consider Enneagram BS. Imo it's difficult to call any personality theory "scientific". It's more of an idea of fun or toying around with ideas, than actual science. Socionics makes more sense to me than Enneagram, but without delving into tritypes, I think Enneagram with wings can be a nice addendum of sorts to the Socionics classification.

From what I've seen, Fe/Ti-valuers aka subjectivists, esp Fe-egos pay a lot of attention to how personal feelings bias things. Subjectivist confirmed...

Regarding the MOTIV stuff I linked earlier I'll add sth...

I didn't take the test yet, but the link numer 5 (so this one) about subjectivist - yeah, I agree with most of the statements (these not so much: "would rather please self than others" - this varies, I tend go the other way round in close relations and 50-50 otherwise; "tends to dislike people who chase wealth and status" - I'm more of "to each their own" sort of person. I don't chase after those things, but if it makes someone happy - it's fine by me as long as they don't go hurting other people to achieve their goals; "does not love to be complemented" - not by strangers as it makes me uncomfortable, with family and friends it's 50-50, but by my SO - I love it.

This I honestly tl;dr. I'm happily paired and not that interested in theories on mating to jump in and read the whole thing now. I might read it later, Idk.


Also, I found the overall tone of your response a bit too pushy and don't appreciate the critique towards @The Foundation, who was really helpful to me and answered with patience to a lot of my questions and actually did respond to the OP.

I find most of the things you linked quite interesting, I'm not acquainted with NPA theory and might give it a go. Similar with MOTIV. I appreciate the time you took to provide me with this info, but ultimately I set up this thread to figure out Enneagram and you didn't provide me with an answer to my OP question. You did however state that Enneagram is BS and also attempted to type me using other theories (using words such as "confirmed" which I always tend to find amusing in forums. If a person quite often can't be certain of their own "type" how can a stranger be so sure to state "confirmed"...?). I also didn't ask for a typing other than Enneagram and this thread wasn't set up in the "type me" section. I don't mind it though, it was interesting to read.

So finally, while you were quite accurate with some statements (I am indeed Fe-creative in Socionics, which was already kind of a given; and apparently am a subjectivist in MOTIV - which was interesting to find out), you were also off with others (am not an NPA type in NPA theory).

Having said that, you did provide me with some interesting info and if you have more of it coming and other materials you'd like to share, could you please set up a separate thread and we might dive a bit into other theories there?


edit:
Derail thread - here.

[kopyk]

was this a suggestion that I am NPA (link nr 1)? So finally, while you were quite accurate with some statements (I am indeed Fe-creative in Socionics, which was already kind of a given; and apparently am a subjectivist in MOTIV - which was interesting to find out), you were also off with others (am not an NPA type in NPA theory).

@aisa seems I still need some practice typing in NPA theory then. You got health issues indicative of N, NP, - or = subtype of A-trait type, or just being really battered by the environment (harsh, protracted bullying, poisoning, etc). Explosive rage could be N type - the description mentions that. Subjectivist is also a socionics term (not synonymous with MOTIV subjectivist) which is synonymous with merry aka Fe/Ti valuing. If you're truly SEI, then in MOTIV you should be SCE??, assuming perfect MOTIV-socionics correlation. Lets dissect the rest of your post...

"does not love to be complemented" - not by strangers as it makes me uncomfortable, with family and friends it's 50-50, but by my SO - I love it.

Xenophobia is possibly more common perfectionism-trait-ers. Go to bottom of this page and search "xeno" without quotation marks. Anyway, do you see how vague and forer-effect inducing statements like "does not love to be complemented" can be?

Also, I found the overall tone of your response a bit too pushy. it's fine by me as long as they don't go hurting other people to achieve their goals;

This and your dislike of bullies indicates anti-aggression-trait. Maybe anti-Withholding (MOTIV). Maybe anti-Ni/Se as they're stereotypically hateful and ruthless (-Fi, in hitta's definitions).

ultimately I set up this thread to figure out Enneagram and you didn't provide me with an answer to my OP question. I don't consider Enneagram BS. Imo it's difficult to call any personality theory "scientific". It's more of an idea of fun or toying around with ideas, than actual science. Socionics makes more sense to me than Enneagram, but without delving into tritypes, I think Enneagram with wings can be a nice addendum of sorts to the Socionics classification.

Various topics for you to chew on in regards to the validity, worth and greatness of the enneagram. Keep in mind there's real money to be made with enneagram. Same can't currently be said for various other typologies.

[Absurd]

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

[The Foundation]

Humans flying didn't exist before humans invented it, but it was still theoretically possible. Triangle=quadrangle always remains true. Aside from the argument I just presented I'll just say that non-existence is similar to optical-illusions, so not worth taking seriously. Nice attempt at nondualism though.

That's conceptual non-existence, which is in our reference frame of the existent. The state of nonexistence is implausible due to the infinite probability that nothing possesses under the assumption that something comes from nothing. Nice attempt.

[aisa]

ok, so I did those tests and in one I got 4 with balanced wings and in the other I got inconclusive - either 4w5 or 5w4
apparently I'm not an 8w9 lol I guess I was being either delusional before or too withdrawn while taking the test, oh well it's probably not the latter

second test's results in detail:
Type 4 - 9.7
Type 5 - 9.3
Type 1 - 7
Type 2 - 6.7
Type 6 - 6.7
Type 8 - 6
Type 9 - 5.7
Type 7 - 5.7

Wing 4w5 - 14.4
Wing 5w4 - 14.2
Wing 5w6 - 12.7
Wing 6w5 - 11.4
Wing 4w3 - 11.2
Wing 1w2 - 10.4
Wing 2w1 - 10.2
Wing 1w9 - 9.9
Wing 6w7 - 9.6
Wing 9w1 - 9.2
Wing 7w6 - 9.1
Wing 8w9 - 8.9
Wing 8w7 - 8.9
Wing 7w8 - 8.7
Wing 9w8 - 8.7
Wing 2w3 - 8.2

I don't know which one it is, saw that showing emotion is what discerns 4s from 5s - from that I'd go with 5, cause showing emotions is goddamn hard for me and I've been told they are not too visible (even when I'm feeling strongly internally).
Obviously this doesn't apply to the occasions when I'm pushed to the limits and just explode

Sooo as you were the one to provide this particular link - @Absurd - what is your typing for me 4w5 of 5w4? (I can't believe I'm actually asking you this )

@The Foundation - also, what do you think?

[The Foundation]

ok, so I did those tests and in one I got 4 with balanced wings and in the other I got inconclusive - either 4w5 or 5w4
apparently I'm not an 8w9 lol I guess I was being either delusional before or too withdrawn while taking the test, oh well it's probably not the latter

second test's results in detail:
Type 4 - 9.7
Type 5 - 9.3
Type 1 - 7
Type 2 - 6.7
Type 6 - 6.7
Type 8 - 6
Type 9 - 5.7
Type 7 - 5.7

Wing 4w5 - 14.4
Wing 5w4 - 14.2
Wing 5w6 - 12.7
Wing 6w5 - 11.4
Wing 4w3 - 11.2
Wing 1w2 - 10.4
Wing 2w1 - 10.2
Wing 1w9 - 9.9
Wing 6w7 - 9.6
Wing 9w1 - 9.2
Wing 7w6 - 9.1
Wing 8w9 - 8.9
Wing 8w7 - 8.9
Wing 7w8 - 8.7
Wing 9w8 - 8.7
Wing 2w3 - 8.2

I don't know which one it is, saw that showing emotion is what discerns 4s from 5s - from that I'd go with 5, cause showing emotions is goddamn hard for me and I've been told they are not too visible (even when I'm feeling strongly internally).
Obviously this doesn't apply to the occasions when I'm pushed to the limits and just explode

Sooo as you were the one to provide this particular link - @Absurd - what is your typing for me 4w5 of 5w4? (I can't believe I'm actually asking you this )

@The Foundation - also, what do you think?

Sx 4 would explain why you typed as 8-ish, and 4 also has a disintegration connection to 2, but then again 2 also has an integration point to 4.

Because traditional enneagram is based on motivations, fears, and desires:

Would you say that you have a strong, all-consuming, desire to be seen as mysterious, special, or unique?

Would you also say that your greatest fears are thinking that you are normal, thinking you are average, and possibly losing your identity?

[kopyk]

@The Foundation I'll send you a PM later on so as to not disrupt this topic's proceedings any further.

Edit:

Triangle=quadrangle always remains true.

Was meant to be =/= darn typo

[The Foundation]

@The Foundation I'll send you a PM later on so as to not disrupt this topic's proceedings any further.

Alright, but I'm not entirely sure this needs further discourse.

[aisa]

Sx 4 would explain why you typed as 8-ish, and 4 also has a disintegration connection to 2, but then again 2 also has an integration point to 4.

Because traditional enneagram is based on motivations, fears, and desires:

Would you say that you have a strong, all-consuming, desire to be seen as mysterious, special, or unique?

No.

Would you also say that your greatest fears are thinking that you are normal, thinking you are average, and possibly losing your identity?

No, I don't think so.

[Absurd]

Sooo as you were the one to provide this particular link - @Absurd - what is your typing for me 4w5 of 5w4? (I can't believe I'm actually asking you this )

As long you want to tinker with Enneagram, try reading some descriptions in book. I can upload a few (I think I've got a few somewhere). As for question, I normally go with results (as with everything) and do not venture further unless something is off halfway.

[aisa]

As long you want to tinker with Enneagram, try reading some descriptions in book. I can upload a few (I think I've got a few somewhere).

yeah, I find it interesting combined with Socionics and books sound most eligible. Thx for answering
(pls PM me the additional info)

As for question, I normally go with results (as with everything) and do not venture further unless something is off halfway.

fair enough, the tests however place me halfway (I've tested both 4w5 and 5w4 before, too - along with 2w1 and 1w2) and given some of the other (non-Enneagram) tests I took before weren't reliable, I tend to question the results and read various descriptions before I settle with sth that makes most sense to me - be it the initial test result or not.

[Absurd]

yeah, I find it interesting combined with Socionics and books sound most eligible. Thx for answering
(pls PM me the additional info)

After I get back - have to be in another city.

[Absurd]

http://speedy.sh/aKECG/Bringing-Out-the-Best-in-Yourself-at-Work-How-to-Use-the-Enneagram-System-for-Success.pdf

http://speedy.sh/TVMYR/Character-and-Neurosis-An-Integrative-V-Claudio-Naranjo-M.D.rtf

http://speedy.sh/sdHaS/Renee-Baron-and-Elizabeth-Wagele-The-Enneagram-Made-Easy.pdf

http://speedy.sh/JEUTC/The-Enneagram-Handbook.pdf

Always something...

[aisa]

hmm... I managed to dig up the file where I saved my test results from about a year ago. It was about 6 months after a very stressful time then. Overall relieved it was "over" and pretty relaxed when taking the test.
Tested as 5w4. It was apparent in that test (I took it more than once) that one question decided of the result, although the answer that led initially to 5w4 was my instinctive one (the other option was 1w2).
[[2w1 that I mentioned earlier was not the result under stress, but the result of toying around with that test and trying to figure out how I would've solved it a few years back in my most happy-go-lucky and "giving" mode, when I was very focused on growth, giving more and "extraverting" myself. So I wouldn't call this result reliable tbh.]]

Now I'm probably more relaxed, more in an "I don't care, whatever" phase and it gave either 5w4 or 4w5 in one test, 4 with balanced wings in another.
So I guess I'm either a 4 with heavy 5 wing or a 5 with heavy 4 wing. 5's connections with 7 & 8 make somewhat more sense than 4's with 1 and 2... not sure here though, it might be my subjective view of things. Hmm

edit: I took another test today (from similarminds) and the result was 5 (it didn't give wings).

Pfft/ end of rant


P.S. I'll give it a read, thx for links @Absurd.

[Absurd]

You might want to check one out, @aisa. No problem. I, myself, didn't even read them. Just take the bits and compare with what have you been liek in the past and are now - might help.

[aisa]

hmm... after giving it a bit more of a read and testing/reading about instinct stackings - 4w5 sx/so seems most likely. One of the articles mentioned that sx/so would explain the 8ish bits (well, the sx part would, anyway).
also although am not big on tritype some of the results pasted above make me think 451 (4w5, 5w4, 1w2) makes sense... and if "451 is the most 5ish 4." it would explain the difficulty I had with discerning whether I'm a 4w5 or 5w4, also why I had a brief moment of considering 1w2...

edit: and yet another result... pfft

 

You are a Type 5 with a 4 wing: "The Iconoclast"

Your trifix is 5w4, 4w5, 9w1.

In enneagram theory, you have one type for how you relate to the world (either 8, 9, or 1), one type for how you think (5, 6, 7) and one type for how you see yourself (2, 3, 4.) Your tri-fix contains one number from each of these triads. They are listed in the order of how strongly they present in your personality.

Your core type (your strongest type) is Type 5 with a 4 wing: Type Five individuals are cerebral, intelligent, and complex. Type Five is often called the Investigator type, because they are constantly trying to learn more about the world. To a Five, knowledge is power, and knowing more about the world around them makes the world a safer place. It’s common for a Five to withdraw into their own thoughts and ruminate on intricate ideas and concepts. Type Fives, when they are in a growth state, become self-confident and authoritative like a Type Eight. When they are stressed, Type Fives become scattered like an unhealthy Type Seven. You are a Type Five with a Four wing, which means that the cerebral nature of Type Five combines with the creative nature of a Type Four. For this reason, you are likely to challenge established ideas with new and fresh concepts.

Your second type (your next strongest type) is Type 4 with a 5 wing: Type Four individuals are intensely emotionally aware, and often retreat to their rich inner world of concepts and ideas. They are the most artistic type in the Enneagram and driven to create their own, unique identity. Type Fours value authenticity highly and express themselves whenever they can. They are one of the most individualistic types in the Enneagram. Type Fours, when in a state of growth, become principled like Type Ones. When stressed, Type Fours can become clingy like an unhealthy Type Two. You are a Type Four with a Five wing, which means that the individualist nature of a Four combines with the cerebral nature of a Five to make you one of the most creative types in the Enneagram.

Your third type (the least-used of the three) is Type 9 with a 1 wing: Nines are receptive, easygoing, and loveable. Out of all the types in the Enneagram, they have a special ability to get along with others. For this reason, they’re often skilled mediators, resolving conflicts both within themselves and among others. Nines value peace, especially inner peace, very highly. When in a state of growth, Nines become energetic and driven like Type Threes. When stressed, Nines become anxious like an unhealthy Type Six. You are a Type Nine with a One wing, which means that the harmonious traits of the Type Nine merge with the idealistic nature of the Type One. You have an idealized view of the world, and your drive toward harmony is one way to fulfill that dream.

Some words that describe you: relaxed, peaceful, harmonious, creative, unique, authentic, emotional, intelligent, cerebral, questioning.