Distinguishing between LSE-Te and SLE at first sight

[Amber]

Does anyone have any tips on how to tell apart LSE-Te from SLE on a first meeting? So yeah, I´m posting a question about something right out the oven of my super personal concrete life, but it would be great to know fast which temperament I´m dealing with (or even which quadra). I must mention it´s about a "business meeting" and a person who´s almost 40, so the "usual" signs specific to type may be a bit less sharp. Not easy to tell any difference from a discussion concentrating mostly on facts and figures. Besides, since everything is neutral, there´s hardly anything obvious about a specific gulenkean romantic style. All I can tell is that the person is an evident E_T Sensor with some latent choleric temperament (in the Hippocrates sense : body type; proactive attitude; purposeful, self-assured behavior). VI is doesn´t help , either, only noticeable Italian-like features , somewhere between joe pesci, john wayne and al pacino (so, if at all, the kind of SLE that messes with my initial LSE-Te typing is not the so-called bad boyish type à la jude law or di caprio.).

[Absurd]

One is Wall Street American mogul, the other isn't. You can't miss in your ignorance.

[woofwoofl]

I got John Wayne as LSE 8w9, I recall Al Pacino as being typed LSE quite a bit, and as for Joe Pesci, I vaguely recall a ESxj typing of some sort.

[SyrupDeGem]

LSE's (in general) are growing on me more and more recently. Maybe i change my type for duality or maybe i change theirs


*eyebrow raise*


Edit: @woofwoofl Al Pacino rocks!

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

maybe you can type other ppl peripherally and see how their interaction goes over time

[consentingadult]

Does anyone have any tips on how to tell apart LSE-Te from SLE on a first meeting?

If they are female, you could ask yourself the following question: could this woman potentially be face fucked? If the answer is "yes", then SLE.

[Amber]

If they are female, you could ask yourself the following question: could this woman potentially be face fucked? If the answer is "yes", then SLE.

my underlying question is rather in the direction "is this person likely to try to con me?"

[consentingadult]

my underlying question is rather in the direction "is this person likely to try to con me?"

Not so much type related. Both types come in good and bad varieties. Of course SLEs are more likely to shift the burden of responsibility on to other people than LSEs, but that is perhaps what some types are in need of. SLEs can give their (semi) duals the proverbial kick in the butt to get them moving, and although such a relationship can appear to be abusive to outsiders, it might be highly beneficial to the people involved.

ETA: There is a cultural component to the behavior of types, and I have noticed this can both positively and negatively affect types. E.g. the country of Turkey has a "culture of honor", which actually brings out the best in types such as SLEs. However, in cultures that are more Te based, such as Western Europe and North America, basic attitudes of SLEs are not aligned with the default cultural mores, which puts SLEs at a disadvantage, and brings out the worst.

[Suz]

My way of recognizing LSEs might not work for you, since you have strong Te already being ILI, but basically if the person "lives to teach" they're probably LSE. If they get annoyed by having to explain every little thing or if i need to suck info out of them, they're probably SLE (that is, if i'm deciding between those 2 types only).

LSEs really do live to teach though... they'll teach you stuff even if you never ask.

Another thing is that LSEs, though can be crass at times themselves, tend to respect people who treat others with integrity and professionalism. SLEs dont really care about that and will often be challenging the very notion of integrity themselves (and professionalism, unless they need it to get ahead).

In my experience LSEs also LOVE love love people who work hard and who try to do a good job, and they really appreciate you for your diligence. SLEs as I understand, tend to take advantage of exploiting people, and dont really care about how hard you work; in fact it's probably better to just sit and joke around with SLEs and give them your edginess -- you'll earn their respect more than if you work really hard, otherwise you're just a sucker whom they can use.

LSEs are one of my favorite types... I've had the opportunity to come across quite a few in my line of work.

[golden]

way of recognizing LSEs might not work for you, since you have strong Te already being ILI, but basically if the person "lives to teach" they're probably LSE. If they get annoyed by having to explain every little thing or if i need to suck info out of them, they're probably SLE (that is, if i'm deciding between those 2 types only).

LSEs really do live to teach though... they'll teach you stuff even if you never ask.

Another thing is that LSEs, though can be crass at times themselves, tend to respect people who treat others with integrity and professionalism. SLEs dont really care about that and will often be challenging the very notion of integrity themselves (and professionalism, unless they need it to get ahead).

In my experience LSEs also LOVE love love people who work hard and who try to do a good job, and they really appreciate you for your diligence. SLEs as I understand, tend to take advantage of exploiting people, and dont really care about how hard you work; in fact it's probably better to just sit and joke around with SLEs and give them your edginess -- you'll earn their respect more than if you work really hard, otherwise you're just a sucker whom they can use.

The SLEs I know appreciate hard work but I note they tend to work hard themselves and don't always delegate lots of tasks to others. They tend to simply do the work, and not conceptualize about the work. They are good at finding shortcuts and efficiencies on the fly, and LSEs seem to increase efficiency step by step with trial and error.

SLEs also tend to be generous and tolerant, if they like you, and I have seen them taken advantage of. To call them exploitative is farcical ime.

I have worked with both types successfully. It is hard to generalize, but I find LSEs talk a lot about procedures and create and attempt new ways of managing workflow. I think SLEs are not as good at that but don't mind someone on staff contributing procedure. SLEs might be more obvious about sizing up your character quickly. LSE cares about character but draws conclusions more slowly.

In a work context there is no reason to expect an SLE to be unserious, as not all of them are jokers, and those who are might not be at work. LSE might value humor in the workplace, however, but it will probably be some light quips and then it's back to work. SLE humor, if you get to see it, will perhaps be more outrageous, harsh, or crude, though smart ones have plenty of wit. SLEs may gauge your ability to accept their humor, so the full extent of their craziness might not be on view to everyone. I think LSEs I know have more friendly, generalized humor that is meant for everyone.

Honestly, I would pay attention to body language, with LSE tending to seem more vertical and stiff in core posture but with a possibly softer quality to the movements. SLE might be more likely to break out of vertical and lean toward you or otherwise arrange themselves at angles or move out of the upright, collected posture, and it is harder to find surface softness about them IMO, smooth but not soft. Also the eyes of SLE might tend to be more active, their eye contact might be more forward. LSE eye language is more inward-seeming.

All of that is subjective and colored by my own biases and experience, so in troo internet fashion, ymmv. Also, I prefer irrational subtypes across the board, so I have more appreciation of Se-SLE and Si-LSE. The rational sub Ti and Te people all seem more distant to me, which may have to do with intertype.

[Suz]

SLEs also tend to be generous and tolerant, if they like you, and I have seen them taken advantage of. To call them exploitative is farcical ime.
LSE cares about character but draws conclusions more slowly.

In a work context there is no reason to expect an SLE to be unserious, as not all of them are jokers, and those who are might not be at work. LSE might value humor in the workplace, however, but it will probably be some light quips and then it's back to work. SLE humor, if you get to see it, will perhaps be more outrageous, harsh, or crude, though smart ones have plenty of wit. SLEs may gauge your ability to accept their humor, so the full extent of their craziness might not be on view to everyone. I think LSEs I know have more friendly, generalized humor that is meant for everyone.

You misinterpreted my comment about joking around with SLEs being the better approach with them. I was not referring to their level of seriousness, their sense of humor, or humor in the workplace, at all. Instead i was alluding to more along to lines of what you mentioned earlier -- about SLEs being generous and tolerant "if" they like you. I.e. they dont appreciate someone for their hard work and diligence; they appreciate someone who's spend time and effort kissing up to them, e.g. with joking around, showing their edge. When referring to joking around, I'm taking about the OTHER person, not the SLE. In other words, you can put your all into the work that they give you (if they are your boss), and succeed and do high quality work, but the SLE will have no appreciation for that and may even look down on you for doing it all, for being that sucker who can be exploited. This actually goes for any beta, i think... not just SLEs.

I think you may have read too literally into my use of the word "joking".


But I agree with you that our impressions are all a matter of perspective and depend on the IE we value the most.

[Iris]

... basically if the person "lives to teach" they're probably LSE. If they get annoyed by having to explain every little thing or if i need to suck info out of them, they're probably SLE (that is, if i'm deciding between those 2 types only).

LSEs really do live to teach though... they'll teach you stuff even if you never ask.
ahead).

That is such a helpful tip! I realize it will vary in intensity from person to person, but the mindset should be easy to spot when deciding between SLE and LSE. Thanks!

[Suz]

That is such a helpful tip! I realize it will vary in intensity from person to person, but the mindset should be easy to spot when deciding between SLE and LSE. Thanks!

No prob! I've found that to be a dead giveaway... now if i can figure out a dead giveaway for SLIs...

[consentingadult]

No prob! I've found that to be a dead giveaway... now if i can figure out a dead giveaway for SLIs...

That's easy: if you come across a person that you unconsciously think is totally uninteresting and common and plain. that doesn't spark any interest whatsoever (positive or negative), you've probably found one. The true problem is not about recognizing them, the problem is that one has an inclination to ignore them (I mean, your dual, not SLIs specifically).

ETA: it took me 7 years myself to figure this out

[Suz]

That's easy: if you come across a person that you unconsciously think is totally uninteresting and common and plain. that doesn't spark any interest whatsoever (positive or negative), you've probably found one. The true problem is not about recognizing them, the problem is that one has an inclination to ignore them (I mean, your dual, not SLIs specifically).

ETA: it took me 7 years myself to figure this out

hmm.. thanks... yeah i've heard of that before, but when i think of who i find uninteresting and dull, i cant really think of anyone

[wacey]

@WorkaholicsAnon


Bingo.

[FDG]

I know this may not be useful but: I think it's not easy at all.

[Absurd]

Noob OP failed to lick the Greek Temperaments via Socionics yet and inquired how to distinguish something he is apt to distinguish, not.

[Amber]

In a very "serious" context in which both types would have all the interest to behave "by the book", if they want to close a deal, so to speak ...nope, it damn wasn´t easy. Otherwise I may have my ways. None would be prone to blunder or BS or get into fights in such a one-hour meeting , not even SLE - unless they´re retarded. I kind of found most tips pretty useful, at least for processing stuff in hindsight and gathering info for the next time. Cause most of the interaction will kind of take place online for a while.

[Olduvai]

SLE behaves like SLE and LSE behaves like LSE. That is how you tell the difference.

[Suz]

SLE behaves like SLE and LSE behaves like LSE. That is how you tell the difference.

and thank you captain obvious!

[Amber]

SLE behaves like SLE and LSE behaves like LSE. That is how you tell the difference.

lol . you´re right. The thing is I usually observe people over a time span to get their behavior and life hasn´t offered me such an opportunity in this case yet, I just went by first impressions and VI. Actually I´ve just realized the guy looks a bit like Johnny Cash, too, fuck socio-VI. I´ll keep you posted, hopefully not with sensational swindles and stuff.

[Absurd]

lol . you´re right. The thing is I usually observe people over a time span to get their behavior and life hasn´t offered me such an opportunity in this case yet, I just went by first impressions and VI. Actually I´ve just realized the guy looks a bit like Johnny Cash, too, fuck socio-VI. I´ll keep you posted, hopefully not with sensational swindles and stuff.

Wait a minute.

You realised your lover looks like Johnny Cash, which means, you judged him by eyesight and one can say via V.I alone, and then you go: "fuck socio-VI"?

Truly the ways of Gamma are lost on me completely.

[woofwoofl]

lol . you´re right. The thing is I usually observe people over a time span to get their behavior and life hasn´t offered me such an opportunity in this case yet, I just went by first impressions and VI. Actually I´ve just realized the guy looks a bit like Johnny Cash, too, fuck socio-VI. I´ll keep you posted, hopefully not with sensational swindles and stuff.

I've got Johnny Cash at Se-SLE 8w9 sx/sp, with sp/sx being entirely possible but not my first choice.

[Amber]

I've got Johnny Cash at Se-SLE 8w9 sx/sp, with sp/sx being entirely possible but not my first choice.

I think Johnny Cash is SLE Sx first. This guy doesn´t have anything of his striking attitude that wants to provoke, only some facial features , a "harsher" look on him.

[Amber]

eeew this is starting to bore me really bad, cause I have no new info, but people keep commenting. I guess some folks here have a very good concept about how to "judge" people´s character in a blink of an eye during something resembling an interview when you´re mostly focused on what you and the other are after and on the negotiation itself. Probably an ESI-Fi or EII-Fi would have laser-scanned the interlocutor or whatever.

[Absurd]

You better hire one immediately, so he(?) can scan environments for you:

ESI: "Look! Open sewer!"

ESI: "That person hides a sabre."

ESI: "Terrorist at twelve o'clock!"

ILI: Thank you ESI, you're a Godsend."

[Amber]

Him : "I think an advance is appropriate and I hope we'll collaborate on a longer term" johnny cash.jpg

Me :

[RSV3]

Does anyone have any tips on how to tell apart LSE-Te from SLE on a first meeting? So yeah, I´m posting a question about something right out the oven of my super personal concrete life, but it would be great to know fast which temperament I´m dealing with (or even which quadra). I must mention it´s about a "business meeting" and a person who´s almost 40, so the "usual" signs specific to type may be a bit less sharp. Not easy to tell any difference from a discussion concentrating mostly on facts and figures. Besides, since everything is neutral, there´s hardly anything obvious about a specific gulenkean romantic style. All I can tell is that the person is an evident E_T Sensor with some latent choleric temperament (in the Hippocrates sense : body type; proactive attitude; purposeful, self-assured behavior). VI is doesn´t help , either, only noticeable Italian-like features , somewhere between joe pesci, john wayne and al pacino (so, if at all, the kind of SLE that messes with my initial LSE-Te typing is not the so-called bad boyish type à la jude law or di caprio.).

Some differences I've noticed between LSEs and SLEs on first sight or contact (not getting into a Te specific subtype):

1) The LSE will generally have a more put together conservative fashion style; the SLE will have a more unique style (but is often nevertheless fashionable) that should stand out a bit.
2) The LSE will generally take a more nuanced approach in business meetings--tending to hear others out and then either try to change their mind or go along with their suggestion; the SLE's position is usually more overt--he will quickly either back an idea or reject it and then proceed to be a very strong advocate for or against it.
3) From my (an LII's) perspective, the SLE will have a more piercing gaze, where as the LSE's eyes convey a less probing, more open atmosphere. I tend to be more conscious of my actions around SLEs, believing the SLE will be highly critical of them where as I find my actions and ideas are viewed much less critically by LSEs.

Overall, I distinguish the two based on a number of subtle nuanced cues that creates, for lack of a better word, a distinct vibe that make it clear who the beta is and who the delta is. Hard to describe really.

[Beautiful sky]

Te - observes actions "I watched him walk across the room"
Se - picks up on static qualities of things "you're fragile"

[Satan]

Te - observes actions "I watched him walk across the room"
Se - picks up on static qualities of things "you're fragile"

you're useless.

Would you say that Te is stuck in the past, and Se is more orientated to the present.

I dunno if it's just your way of talking, but to me I'd say "He walked across the room", and not self reference.

I think everyone observes, and I suppose communication style is easier to place.

I dunno why someone would say something like that though. "He just walked across the room" may refer to someone not doing much action. You watching him walk across the room may imply that you had nothing better to do than people watch, or that you were checking him out.

[Absurd]

Would you say that Te is stuck in the past, and Se is more orientated to the present.

That's what I thought about Se egos actually, the stuck in the past part. At least from my real life recollections, where they're unable to appreciate the times they're living in now. Can be Ne polr, I don't know...

[Beautiful sky]

you're useless.

Would you say that Te is stuck in the past, and Se is more orientated to the present.

I dunno if it's just your way of talking, but to me I'd say "He walked across the room", and not self reference.

I think everyone observes, and I suppose communication style is easier to place.

I dunno why someone would say something like that though. "He just walked across the room" may refer to someone not doing much action. You watching him walk across the room may imply that you had nothing better to do than people watch, or that you were checking him out.

Your disproportionate reactions are that of an introvert and that is final typing. And yes partly it processes things from the past living in the past actions when it analysis things

[Absurd]

Your disproportionate reactions are that of an introvert and that is final typing. And yes partly it processes things from the past living in the past actions when it analysis things

Yeah, mercatron. Maritsa just wrote you're way too fragile for an extrovert after observing your actions.

[Satan]

Your disproportionate reactions are that of an introvert and that is final typing. And yes partly it processes things from the past living in the past actions when it analysis things

Reactions? Discussion is not about reactions. And if you want to type me as introvert, go do so in my typing thread. We're talking about functions here.

[Amber]

I think I´m beginning to have a very clear picture of these differences directly ...in their pure flesh, so to speak. LSE appreciates work for what it is and keeps promises e.g. payment exactly on time, congruence between what advertised work required and what is actually performed and how it is evaluated....it´s part of their Te reliability needs / demands , from others and from themselves. SLE is more experimental and can be a master at using pressure and can even get exploitative if left unchecked.

So I´m most likely dealing with a SLE. A Mr. twin of Johnny Cash after he fucked Joe Pesci and John Wayne.

[Absurd]

Battle in the cold, mercatron. Do not run into the safety of your, ehhh, cottage.

[Amber]

Conclusion to the post : I threw everything in the air because the guy wasn´t reliable at all and wouldn´t pay me on time for a latter part of what I did (he gave me something as advance in the very beginning to gain my "trust", I suppose). So I deleted my unpaid for contributions on his page (language services). He got a bit desperate he´d lose some public and tried to make up for the thing , but then kept changing his decisions every new day. I said fuck off to it all. Is this good old SLE in his 40s? Adorable. Why does everyone in socionics talk of "Marshal Zuhkov" et al.

[Absurd]

So I deleted my unpaid for contributions on his page (language services).

Is that an euphemism?

[Beautiful sky]

SLE are highly aware of impressions sensory experiences make on themselves and people, they are also positivists so they not only want to bring those experiences to people but they often reassure people of how bright their lives will be once having experiences such pleasurable sensations. They are happy go types and often lick their wounds and move on.

LSE sulk in their emotional experiences for a long time and in private. Often, they will wear a double mask, one to the world and one to private because of acceptance. They want to be viewed as a good guy so will come off charming and inviting although they in private will berate people and often their anger and frustration comes out then.