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Thread: Difficulty in discerning your type due to socionists description discrepencies and interpretation

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    Mermaid with Stellar views SyrupDeGem's Avatar
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    Default Difficulty in discerning your type due to socionists description discrepencies and interpretation

    There really does seem to be so many arguments about who is what type and what kind of relationship they have with other types. It's been going on for as long as the forums have and longer still.

    I think a lot of the difficulties and miscommunications lay in the different descriptions available and the different people within types identifying more strongly with specific descriptions.

    There also seems to be layers/tiers of difficulty.

    So a socionics cake may be like this...



    Identifying with singular description (first tier)

    Interpretation bias (second tier)

    other peoples opinions and there influence (third tier)


    If you then take a slice of that cake an offer it around it is not surprising that some people may be offended.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Mermaid with Stellar views SyrupDeGem's Avatar
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    I should make a pretty cake layer picture for this. There has got to be some good graph generator sites around??

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Pass me the cake.

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    Mermaid with Stellar views SyrupDeGem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Pass me the cake.
    With pleasure!

    Attachment 3099

    sorry it's a bit small

    (new improved reciepe)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by SyrupDeGem; 02-14-2014 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Cake flipping

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    IDK it seems pretty clear cut to me; the only difficulty lies in where people perceive and interpret something differently than it really is. Take Te, I just talk about it because I lovvve it.

    My cousin describes her husband moving out of the driveway "I just watched him move back and he was moving slowly and I was watching him get down the curb and then suddenly heard this loud noise from the back and saw the wheel explode LOL. That's what I saw!" It's not enough for her to have said "his tire exploded on the driveway" but sometimes she'll make it a point to me to describe what actions she was actually seeing and watching. That's Te. And, me, I can hear this stuff forever. I really enjoy hearing mundane chatter and discussing future possibilities too as we're both farsighted types. She likes to hear about my feelings on things sometimes even my feelings and moral stances. She likes being reminded about the individual qualities of others.

    It makes for a wonderful team.

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    Wait, so the supporting base is other people's opinions and influence?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Wait, so the supporting base is other people's opinions and influence?
    No i meant that as the third tier but i see how confusing it is, i should flip it i think. It will make more sense that way. In a pyramid tier fashion.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    IDK it seems pretty clear cut to me; the only difficulty lies in where people perceive and interpret something differently than it really is. Take Te, I just talk about it because I lovvve it.

    My cousin describes her husband moving out of the driveway "I just watched him move back and he was moving slowly and I was watching him get down the curb and then suddenly heard this loud noise from the back and saw the wheel explode LOL. That's what I saw!" It's not enough for her to have said "his tire exploded on the driveway" but sometimes she'll make it a point to me to describe what actions she was actually seeing and watching. That's Te. And, me, I can hear this stuff forever. I really enjoy hearing mundane chatter and discussing future possibilities too as we're both farsighted types. She likes to hear about my feelings on things sometimes even my feelings and moral stances. She likes being reminded about the individual qualities of others.

    It makes for a wonderful team.
    But that's just the difficulty what you deem 'differently from how it really is' is not actually different at all it's just less in depth. However you have just shown (or demonstrated through miscommunication) part of the cake theory perfectly. The incident that happened was not differently itself but the description and the perception of it by two individuals was and then to add on the third part is your opinion of what really happened.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    THE CAKE IS A LIE!

    Sorry, I have to get the jokes out of my system before having a real conversation.
    ENTj layer cake with which icing? A cake to make you blush scarlet.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

  10. #10

    Default

    I thought this was pretty relevant when I was reading through type profiles, because generally, I can't read Russian, and inevitably, machine translations lose some of the meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Information metabolism
    © Dmitri Lytov, December 2006 - March 2007.

    Information metabolism – one of the most key and at the same time one of the vaguest notions in socionics. The concept of “information metabolism” or “information-energy metabolism,” was borrowed from the Polish psychologist Antoni Kępiński, who, however, used it in a completely different sense from socionics. Kępiński used “information metabolism” to denote intellectual exchange. He used “energy” to denote a form of pressure (examples of “energy metabolism” often bore a negative connotation – for instance concentration camps, in which he was a prisoner).

    Aushra Augustinavichiute placed Kępiński’s descriptive comparison in a central position in her theory; the psyche, which is similar to a stomach, is “fed” by information signals. Moreover some signals are useful, whereas others are harmful and exhaust the psyche. Augusta created model A in an attempt to combine together several phenomena: processes within the individual psyche, one's contact with other individuals, as well as information processes within society. The weakest part of this hypothesis is uncertainty and vagueness regarding the concepts “information” and “energy.” Yet another major weakness is that, being unable to investigate the nature of the Jungian mental functions, she attempted to substitute them with “aspects of information metabolism,” which supposedly have some fundamental philosophical basis (matter-energy, space-time, body-field, static-dynamic, etc).

    Moreover, such contradictions in the theory of socionics gave birth to disorder and indecisiveness among socionists, including apropos the understanding of what constitutes a socionics type. Here it is possible to isolate at least two [four] (sic) opposite approaches.

    “Informational" approach (Alexander Bukalov, Olga Karpenko, Vladimir Ermak and others, as well as the alleged “Antisocionics” of Shiyan). Its adherents refer to socionics types as “types of information metabolism.” Moreover, they consider this concept not only applicable to the human psyche, but – in a more global sense – to “information” in general. It is significant that these ideas are extremely similar to some eccentric views, but also to synergetics (the theory of self-organizing systems), having recently sprouted from the depths of cybernetics. Unfortunately, very little is known scientifically about the relation of socionics with synergetics and, in a broader sense, with cybernetics. There is also the matter that the Kiev international institute of socionics is highly sympathetic to a number of esoteric approaches, rejected by the scientific world.

    The most radical supporters of this approach discuss the TIMs of inanimate objects or the integral types of nationalities.

    “Sociological” approach (Victor Gulenko, Valentina Meged, Anatoli Ovcharov, Victor Antoshkin and others). Its supporters speak of a “sociotype,” which defines one’s mission in society as a carrier of some kind of social role. Accordingly, they consider information metabolism as a purely sociological phenomenon, i.e., as the transfer of initiative from the carrier of one role to the carrier of another role. The supporters of the “sociological approach” do not reject the hypothesis of integral types, but choose to examine it from a sociological point of view.

    “Bio-psychological” approach (Ekatrina Filatova, Sergei Bogomaz, Dmitri and Marianna Lytov, Victor Talanov and others). The supporters of this approach consider “information metabolism” to lie in the plane of psychology, primarily in the theory of psychological compatibility, as well as the study of the nature of perception and other mental processes. Until we are capable of modeling the psyche by an approximate computational model, there is no sense in introducing “information” terms into socionics. They will be superfluous and not connected to real facts.

    “Linguistic” approach (Eugene Shepetko, Vladimir Ermak, Elena Udalova, Vladimir Mironov, L.A. Kochubeeva and others). The supporters of this approach are convinced that vocabulary uniquely characterizes each element of information metabolism, which makes it possible to use lexical criteria in the determination of type. Articles which survey and critique this approach can be found in the section on socionics and psycholinguistics.

    It should be noted that the term “energy-information exchange” became extremely popular by the end of the 1980s among supporters of different esoteric and eccentric approaches (“the theory of torsion fields”, “the theory of MEPV”, etc.). In the scientific world, completely substantiated and confirmed at every turn is the opinion that if the term “information” is not used by a specialist in computer science, and “energy” not by a physicist, then what lies before us is a clearly unscientific work. It is a pity that socionists neither consider nor respond to this trend.

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