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Thread: Differentiating Mirror vs Supervision relations

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Default Differentiating Mirror vs Supervision relations

    They give you feedback, which is not always pleasant to hear, but really makes you think and reassess yourself, and later on you realize that they are totally right. They may even be a little bit intimidating (just a little bit), perhaps because of this, because you're worried you'll get this feedback again.

    At the same time they like you, they are sympathetic to you and you resonate a lot with each other.

    Is this consistent with the mirror intertype?
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    The only people who seem to claim me as their mirror are ENTjs and I would describe our interactions as "smug and self-satisfied." Like we're chuffed to be in the presence of someone equally as impressive.
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    I like SEEs because they aren't intimidated by me and seem to get my jokes.

    the only issues we seem to have are the EP vs IJ temperaments.


    **by intimidated I mean in a Se way that usually happens with Si types...in like this weird way. Not in a "OMG..I'm so fab..women are so intimidated by me" way.
    Last edited by blackburry; 02-11-2014 at 02:09 AM.

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    I liked my LIE girlfriend a lot when we hung out. She was prom queen and high school class president, etc... The woman has always been an overachiever and still is, but never competitive with me. We were a pair when out together.

    I sometimes thought it might be a little unhealthy because we fed off each other’s egos, and sometimes so much that there was a sexual –narcissistic chemistry between us. I don’t remember either of us focusing on our faults.

    My EIE friend didn’t like it when I was around her for some reason.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I wouldn't say this is consistent with the mirror intertype, no. I wouldn't say that I'm intimidated by my mirror, nor is there advice ever particularly unpleasant to hear, but rather just interesting.

    I agree a bit with the intimidating part, but more just unnerving, when you realize there is someone very much like you in terms of values but who reacts to and perceives the world in a completely different style because of the energy level (temperament) difference.

    Anyway, I'd suggest Supervisor/Supervisee intertype relation instead. Rather than EII for this person, have you considered LII or ESI?

    Also, as another reminder, intertype relations don't work like normal if you're on different positions in a hierarchy. Is this person a boss of yours? Someone who routinely comments on what you do?
    yes indeed...this person is the director of my program... and it took me about 1.5 years for her to grow on me, partially because she tends to have this grumpy look, that I used to think meant she didn't like what i was saying or doing, but realized over time that she does that when she's listening intently and thinking hard. I've also come to see her as a person I can come to with my problems, because she will understand and give me great advice. Often she'll give me advice and i'll sort of disregard it at first, or even be surprised to hear her say that, and not too long afterwards, I'll realize she was totally right.

    Even when at first I feel offended by her feedback, later on when I realize she's right, I also realize that she didn't mean it in a bad way, and I no longer feel offended.

    IDK, ESI seems possible, but she just seems so delta... I definitely think she's Fi-dom, either way.

    Anyway, I just quit working with an SLE mentor and am thinking of working with her on some stuff. She was so understanding, and totally welcoming. Turns out she was kind of hurt that I didn't pick her from the outset...I had no idea!
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for the input... the current thought is she might be my activity relation (LSE).
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    They give you feedback, which is not always pleasant to hear, but really makes you think and reassess yourself, and later on you realize that they are totally right. They may even be a little bit intimidating (just a little bit), perhaps because of this, because you're worried you'll get this feedback again.
    Sounds more like supervision to me. Check out my thread entitled "Fictional portrayals of LII-IEE supervision".

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    actually, after considering supervision, activity, and duality between myself and this boss, I still stand by my original suspicion of mirror.

    The description here describes our dynamic well:
    http://www.socionics.com/rel/mrr.htm

    Mutual correction, heated debates, but friends nonetheless.

    I used to feel intimdated by her, but not anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    actually, after considering supervision, activity, and duality between myself and this boss, I still stand by my original suspicion of mirror.

    The description here describes our dynamic well:
    http://www.socionics.com/rel/mrr.htm

    Mutual correction, heated debates, but friends nonetheless.

    I used to feel intimdated by her, but not anymore.
    you should post a picture of her

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    you should post a picture of her
    I can pm you with them
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I can pm you with them
    I can't tell what type she is based on those pictures, but I truly think we're talking about relations of supervision. Mirror relations are pleasant, as both partners have the same ego functions, but in different orders. Mirror relations are like quasi-identical relations insofar as the partners are sympathetic toward one another, but there is an added dimension also, and that is understanding or agreement between partners in terms of what is "important" or "should be taken into consideration".

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    Mirror relations are like quasi-identical relations insofar as the partners are sympathetic toward one another, but there is an added dimension also, and that is understanding or agreement between partners in terms of what is "important" or "should be taken into consideration".
    Yep this all rings true between her and me. Maybe i didn't quite express it right in my OP.
    Also like someone mentioned, the fact that she's my boss may have affected my initial impressions of her, hence the slightly "intimidated" feeling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Yep this all rings true between her and me. Maybe i didn't quite express it right in my OP.
    Also like someone mentioned, the fact that she's my boss may have affected my initial impressions of her, hence the slightly "intimidated" feeling.
    But do you provide her with semi-painful advice, and does she ever feel intimidated by you? Because mirror relations are supposed to be symmetrical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    They give you feedback, which is not always pleasant to hear, but really makes you think and reassess yourself, and later on you realize that they are totally right. They may even be a little bit intimidating (just a little bit), perhaps because of this, because you're worried you'll get this feedback again.

    At the same time they like you, they are sympathetic to you and you resonate a lot with each other.

    Is this consistent with the mirror intertype?
    It sounds more more consistent with supervision. I'll try to summarize a few differences I've noticed because these two intertypes can feel very similar. Judging from what I've seen of typings on rus socionics forums, supervisees do err on typing 'friendly' to them supervisors into mirror types.

    Around mirrors I get a sense that it's as if the other person is giving my thoughts a voice. It's like they are taking something that I only vaguely recognized or conceived of and putting it into words, framing my almost unconscious perceptions into these neat, discrete 'packages' and presenting them before me in conversation (i.e. streamlining information from 4d base to 3d creative function). This base-creative interception and vocalization creates a feedback loop between us. Sometimes we arrive at similar kinds of realizations and put forward analogous ideas. I've been pleasantly surprised several times in this - someone I've only recently met and know very little about, then suddenly turns out we've so close in how we see things. I have not considered their ideas as unpleasant to hear.

    The way this is different from supervision is that this commonality of views is absent. The supervisor doesn't seem to read your mind or streamline things from your base function. They bring up something that seems different and unusual, almost like a 'twisted' way to view things that may feel grating and unpleasant at first, but it's phrased in a way that's easily sinks into supervisee's understanding. After some consideration the supervisee sees that there may be something to it and incorporates the values and ideas that were commuted into their worldview.

    Another difference is that in mirror relations it seems like the mirror partner is alright on their own, that while their input is welcomed they don't evoke a lot of sympathy, there is no urge to help them or support them. These relations to the contrary have more of a competitive vibe to them. In supervision relations both the supervisee and the supervisor evoke some sympathy, and sometimes it seems like they could use some backing and support (supervisor due to weakness in their role), which makes supervision bonds both stronger and more frustrating than mirror.
    Last edited by silke; 02-18-2014 at 04:53 AM.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    But do you provide her with semi-painful advice, and does she ever feel intimidated by you? Because mirror relations are supposed to be symmetrical.
    oh no no, i never said the advice was painful.. no not at all, it's more like, she tells me what i needed to hear, i.e she always makes me think. She's told me that I always make her think too, and we thank each other for that. That mutual realization has been just recent once we started interacting more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    It sounds more more consistent with supervision. I'll try to summarize a few differences I've noticed because these two intertypes can feel very similar. Judging from what I've seen of typings on rus socionics forums, supervisees do err on typing 'friendly' to them supervisors into mirror types.

    Around mirrors I get a sense that it's as if the other person is giving my thoughts a voice. It's like they are taking something that I only vaguely recognized or conceived of and putting it into words, framing my almost unconscious perceptions into these neat, discrete 'packages' and presenting them before me in conversation (i.e. streamlining information from 4d base to 3d creative function). This base-creative interception and vocalization creates a feedback loop between us. Sometimes we arrive at similar kinds of realizations and put forward analogous ideas. I've been pleasantly surprised several times in this - someone I've only recently met and know very little about, then suddenly turns out we've so close in how we see things. I have not considered their ideas as unpleasant to hear.

    The way this is different from supervision is that this commonality of views is absent. The supervisor doesn't seem to read your mind or streamline things from your base function. They bring up something that seems different and unusual, almost like a 'twisted' way to view things that may feel grating and unpleasant at first, but it's phrased in a way that's easily sinks into supervisee's understanding. After some consideration the supervisee sees that there may be something to it and incorporates the values and ideas that were commuted into their worldview.

    Another difference is that in mirror relations it seems like the mirror partner is alright on their own, that while their input is welcomed they don't evoke a lot of sympathy, there is no urge to help them or support them. These relations to the contrary have more of a competitive vibe to them. In supervision relations bot hthe supervisee and the supervisor evoke some sympathy, and sometimes it seems like they could use some backing and support, which makes supervision bonds both stronger and more frustrating than mirror.
    Thanks I found your post very enlightening as to the nuances. I still feel my intertype with her is more consistent with what you wrote about mirrors. I may have unintentionally made my OP sound more negative than I intended.

    EDIT: I guess only time will tell if it plays out mirror or supervision. I'll keep everyone posted.
    Last edited by Suz; 02-18-2014 at 04:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ath View Post
    @silke how do you find IEI audit relations play out?
    in general terms it goes like this, in specifics it depends too much on the person

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    in general terms it goes like this, in specifics it depends too much on the person
    according to that, I´m not IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    according to that, I´m not IEI.
    you don't sound like it but you do seem tactical>strategic in your posts

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    you don't sound like it but you do seem tactical>strategic in your posts
    From what I´ve read about reinin dichotomies : process, negativist, constructivist, probably farsighted (this overlaps with Ni..., so not very sure), probably tactical. But I´d say both asking and declaring and both aristocratic and democratic (as tendencies), which complicates things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    I can't tell what type she is based on those pictures, but I truly think we're talking about relations of supervision. Mirror relations are pleasant, as both partners have the same ego functions, but in different orders. Mirror relations are like quasi-identical relations insofar as the partners are sympathetic toward one another, but there is an added dimension also, and that is understanding or agreement between partners in terms of what is "important" or "should be taken into consideration".
    uhg.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Olduvai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereticWacey View Post
    uhg.
    ?

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    Here is my video of mirror relations:

    DO YOU CONSIDER: YOU CAN NOT MISTAKE?
    (You words - doesn't matter. The matter is - your deeds)
    Anyone who would dare argue with me should be able to pass the test on the basis of Socionics. Otherwise, he will be recognized as a boor.
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaaroslav View Post
    Here is my video of mirror relations:

    Thanks Yaaroslav! Wait, is that you in the first video? the guy in the main screen??

    those videos weren't that helpful in terms of assessing my own suspected mirror relationship, but that 2nd video confirmed my suspicion that a boss i just quit working with was EIE (the guy in that video is EIE, right? the woman seems IEI).
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    They give you feedback, which is not always pleasant to hear, but really makes you think and reassess yourself, and later on you realize that they are totally right. They may even be a little bit intimidating (just a little bit), perhaps because of this, because you're worried you'll get this feedback again.

    At the same time they like you, they are sympathetic to you and you resonate a lot with each other.

    Is this consistent with the mirror intertype?
    Mirror understands your purposes and your make-up and would basically just shake you up a bit or give a good ironining to your clothes, because that would make more sense in their view. Suggestions coming from mirror look reasonable and easy to assimilate, it's just a matter of different emphasis (e.g. extrovert will say public image/face is more important than you may think, rational would want you to get your plans and your act more tightly together a bit). Mirror sees your reactions in a specific situation as totally predictable and apart from some advice to attack a problem from a different angle (constructive and welcome after all, because it converges with your goals), it's a boring relationship. Mirror is the kind of person who would not push you off the pot and would even help you when needed, but a lot of time spent together can seem stagnant and dry. Supervision makes for a tense relationship. Supervisor would like you to change.

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