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Thread: Type's influence on placing blame

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    Nevero's Avatar
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    Default Type's influence on placing blame

    Is there any link between socionics types or functions and the decision a person makes on where to attribute blame? To give an emotionally neutral example: imagine a scenario of two guys who are about the same age, race, and ethnicity, who are not good friends but know each other. One of them borrows money from the other and then disappears and never pays him back. There are those who would blame the first guy for being dishonest and taking off with the dough. But then there also those who would place blame on the second guy for being so gullible and permitting the first guy to take advantage of him without any consequences. Is there any connection between type and who would be picked to blame in this case?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    Is there any link between socionics types or functions and the decision a person makes on where to attribute blame? To give an emotionally neutral example: imagine a scenario of two guys who are about the same age, race, and ethnicity, who are not good friends but know each other. One of them borrows money from the other and then disappears and never pays him back. There are those who would blame the first guy for being dishonest and taking off with the dough. But then there also those who would place blame on the second guy for being so gullible and permitting the first guy to take advantage of him without any consequences. Is there any connection between type and who would be picked to blame in this case?
    Short answer: yes.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Is there such a thing? Do the right thing and no one will need to get blamed for anything. If a person borrows money and promises to pay and they don't they are to blame not the person who in good faith having been told they would be paid back didn't get the money back.

    This isn't type related. It's only common sense.

    Some will get offended at themselves for having been gullible, but not seeing their actions as an act of short sightedness but an act of care (active care in relationships in loving someone) of someone you love. When I give money, sometimes it's with total confidence that I have a lot more coming than I lent out, and although I'll get emotionally hurt that the person didn't keep their promise and lose trust in the individual, I know I'm never ever giving away enough to hurt me. I'll be very hurt at the lost trust and dishonesty.

    I don't care who blames me either way. Those people are spam. They don't matter.

    I've never looked at this deeply enough across types to observe a difference in blame, however my strong opinion is that it's not type related because it has to do with a lot of moral factors and upbringing of the individual.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 02-08-2014 at 04:42 AM.

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    You make the choice to give money, you have to accept you may not get it back. Personal responsibility. Take full accountability for yourself and make the choice based on how it makes you feel, not what the other person may do. My belief is that if you don't get paid back and you're mad, it is your fault.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Hmm. When I saw the title, I would have expected this to be a personal post in disguise of socionics a la "Why did she blame me!?!", like many OPs are but I guess I was wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    You make the choice to give money, you have to accept you may not get it back. Personal responsibility. Take full accountability for yourself and make the choice based on how it makes you feel, not what the other person may do. My belief is that if you don't get paid back and you're mad, it is your fault.
    ^ Agreed

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    the only sure way to never get betrayed is to never trust anybody. but then maybe you'd be to blame for being isolated and lonely.

    people aren't robots - its complicated. i think most of us use our hearts in lieu of our heads at least to some degree. and then if that leads us to bad places the placement of blame is often just whatever serves the blamer best.

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    When is *any* situation emotionally neutral though? Maybe we'd like them to be or pretend that they are for our own sanity but I just don't think this is the case... and I'm sorry but the blame *does* rely on the person who lent the money. (assuming they get frustrated or emo for it not being returned.)

    When you give out money never ever expect it to be returned. Like somebody asked me for a dollar for soda once and said in this manipulative douche-y voice "thanks man I-I'll pay you back tomorrow."

    I knew they weren't going to, and they never did. It doesn't matter if it's $1 or a billion. Never give something away and expect it to be returned. All the professional celebrities in Hollywood give this same advice too. (and it's also why so easily they really can say how truly 'giving' they were when they give to charity because they understand this deep down.) I think this can go for feelings of affections as well. Never cuddle up to somebody with the notion that it will always be returned back to you perfectly. (that's a little different tho i mean more ideally things like that should be returned but nothing is ever perfect.)

    People do hate on Jews for things like this, because they are known to be stingy and not very giving... but really I think it's just about being wise. If anything the Jews are just sniffing out real empathy vs. the fake manipulative empathy.

    If you give your heart or give a gift to somebody, do it completely selflessly or don't do it at all because really anything else will drive you insane. And I think you are bound to be dissapointed even suicidal if you go around life doing nice things for everybody thinking it will be paid back to you. Because obviously the world just isn't like that ugh, often times the most horrid people get rewarded the most whereas the people who should live in a mansion with servants are mere slaves themselves. Of course the American Lie would be they 'worked hard and followed their own positive vibration.' Yeah right, spare me that Oprah shit please.

    (Im in a cranky mood I don't like being this realistic i wish i could be all naive and trusting again but but i took the right pill when the hot black guy gave me the choice. =/)

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    in a way i think you're right @truck but if you see every time somebody doesn't pay you back as just an expression of individual self-protection then you're sort of making yourself a victim like any better isn't actually deserved by you but just a pleasant surprise? but you do deserve to be paid back and you deserve to be loved, maybe not by every single person, lol, but if you don't have any expectations then where are the standards you're holding for yourself? idk, its been something i've been struggling with, the conflict between accepting that people are self-serving and refusing to let that make me just indifferent towards everyone.

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    in a way i think you're right @
    truck but if you see every time somebody doesn't pay you back as just an expression of individual self-protection then you're sort of making yourself a victim like any better isn't actually deserved by you but just a pleasant surprise?


    I think the 'being a victim' thing is actually the other way around though (setting yourself up to fail by being nice just for some sort of self-reward... people like that really annoy me, because they assume everybody is as selfish as they are and would be bitter as they are if they weren't), but I think people really need to be more clear and honest on what favors they expect to be returned back - it would save a lot of confusion.

    I guess my main point was just 'people shouldn't be bitter for being the bigger person.'


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Hmm. When I saw the title, I would have expected this to be a personal post in disguise of socionics a la "Why did she blame me!?!", like many OPs are but I guess I was wrong.
    Sorry to disappoint. This was a not-so-personal post about exactly the type of situation described in the OP. Some of the people who were tangentially involved blamed the victim for being too trusting and others blamed the guy who got away. I later started thinking whether socionics types or quadra values had anything to do with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    Short answer: yes.
    and the long answer?

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    this issue is at play in international finance these days... countries like greece get blamed for not repaying debts, but their creditors are not blamed for lending it to them. a large part of these countries problems' could have been avoided by simply acklowledging this moral ambiguity and settling the matter by utilitarian pragmatism instead of insisting the country be ran into the ground for the sake of upholding one meaninglessly arbitrary moral dogma in favor of another, which NB ultimately hasn't served the creditors anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevero View Post
    Is there any link between socionics types or functions and the decision a person makes on where to attribute blame? To give an emotionally neutral example: imagine a scenario of two guys who are about the same age, race, and ethnicity, who are not good friends but know each other. One of them borrows money from the other and then disappears and never pays him back. There are those who would blame the first guy for being dishonest and taking off with the dough. But then there also those who would place blame on the second guy for being so gullible and permitting the first guy to take advantage of him without any consequences. Is there any connection between type and who would be picked to blame in this case?
    I think so. How people reason their interactions with other people reflects their ego. They create personal biases, if you want to call it that, in how they prefer to understand or reason their experiences. But then the problem with Socionics is when people who are more mature can recognize these biases - more individuated types (because that's what individuation is supposed to be); then type relation theory doesn't hold much water anymore.

    I guess it's also a little ironic then because someone who isn't all that individuated won't know themselves enough to make much sense of Socionics. But someone who does know themselves pretty well will find Socionics to fall short on its relational claims as well, though they might be able to use it to understand other people, which hopefully ends up being a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    the only sure way to never get betrayed is to never trust anybody. but then maybe you'd be to blame for being isolated and lonely.

    people aren't robots - its complicated. i think most of us use our hearts in lieu of our heads at least to some degree. and then if that leads us to bad places the placement of blame is often just whatever serves the blamer best.
    I guess I'm weird then. I always found blaming to be a form of excuse. And it bugs me because when other people do it, I get to see how shitty their character is and then I feel ambivalence and I'll wish they'd go away or die. Because they are truly so weak that they can't even take responsibility for their own choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    I guess I'm weird then. I always found blaming to be a form of excuse. And it bugs me because when other people do it, I get to see how shitty their character is and then I feel ambivalence and I'll wish they'd go away or die. Because they are truly so weak that they can't even take responsibility for their own choices.
    i don't think the idea that people are responsible for their own decisions and the idea that they can end up suffering at the hands of somebody else are mutually exclusive.

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    It's pretty simple.

    a) Person A lends to Person B.
    b) Persons A + B have the right to agree to the default or to change terms pre-or post-default change the conditions.
    c) Person B can unilaterally default
    d) Person B can repay the debt

    In which case
    e 1) Person A has the right to advertise that others should not lend to B.
    e 2) Person B has the right to advertise that the terms were unreasonable.

    f) All persons can use the lessons learnt from these experiences to decide if it is appropriate to borrow or lend to A and or B.

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    I wouldn't really blame anyone in that scenario. That sort of stuff just happens *shrugs* Personally though, I almost always blame myself for the things that happen in my life. Good or bad I'm the only common denominator in my problems.

    Placing blame anywhere else admits to a lack of control over the outcome or future outcomes and, quite frankly, fuck that.
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    taking all the blame on yourself for things that other people have done admits to a lack of self-respect. there is a middle ground.

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